E3 Build Information, Changes and Damage Values [Cloud]

[Flon]

The E3 June build of Smash Ultimate will be outdated at any moment and none of the present changes are solidified.
However, just like Ike's topic, for documentation purposes and to get an idea of the direction of Cloud's balance it would still be good to list them.

Damage is given a 20% boost during 1v1 fights when items are disabled. This stacks with the 5% fresh bonus. The values I've provided can be wrong; I'm using 60fps footage. Any additional help would be very appreciated.

I'm comparing data to Smash 4. I will be using the base values for damage as a comparison (accounted and attempted removal of the fresh bonus) but providing the 1v1 bonus too. I've not listed any knockback changes, as there's too many variables to account for and would be pure speculation on my part.

physics / other
jump squat reduced: 4 → 3
✘ full charge limit expires after 15 seconds

neutral attack
jab 1, 2 and 3 startup frame unchanged: 4, 5, 6
jab 3 total frames unchanged: 37
% damage unchanged: 2.5%, 2%, 3.5% (1v1 → 9.6%)
? neutral attack 1 and 2 now keep opponents grounded

dash attack
startup frame unchanged: 9
total frames unchanged: 45
% damage unchanged: 11% (1v1 → 13.2%)

up tilt
startup frame unchanged: 6
total frames unchanged: 32
% damage unchanged: 8% (1v1 → 9.6%)

forward tilt
startup frame unchanged: 9
total frames unchanged: 35
% damage unchanged: 11% (1v1 → 13.2%)

down tilt
startup frame unchanged: 7
total frames unchanged: 40
% damage unchanged: 7% (1v1 → 8.4%)

up smash
startup frame unchanged: 16
total frames unchanged: 46
% damage unchanged: 13% (1v1 → 15.6%)
% late hit damage unchanged: 8% (1v1 → 9.6%)

forward smash
startup frame unchanged: 19
% damage unchanged: 18/19% (1v1 → 21.6/22.8%)

down smash
startup frame unchanged: 8
total frames unchanged: 49
✘ damage reduction: 4%, 12% → 3%, 11% (1v1 → 16.8%)

neutral aerial

altered animation: cloud no longer extends arm during swing, altered frame times
startup frame unchanged: 5
% damage unchanged: 8% (1v1 → 9.6%)
✘ altered animation noticeably reduces range
landing frames reduced: 15 → 9

up aerial

✘ startup frame increased: 7 → 8
✘ loss of initial frame removes all low hitboxes during startup
✘ damage reduction: 12%/8.5% → 11%/8% (1v1 → 13.2%)
landing frames reduced: 15 → 9

forward aerial
startup frame unchanged: 18
% damage unchanged: 14/13/11% (1v1 → 16.8/15.6/13.2%)
landing frames reduced: 18 → 11

back aerial
startup frame unchanged: 11
% damage unchanged: 13% (1v1 → 15.6%)
landing frames reduced: 14 → 8

down aerial
startup frame unchanged: 11
% sourspot damage unchanged: 13% (1v1 → 15.6%)
% late hit damage unchanged: 8% (1v1 → 9.6%)
✘ active frames reduced
landing frames reduced: 26 → 16

neutral special (blade beam)
startup frame unchanged: 18
% projectile damage unchanged: 8/6%
total frames reduced: 60 → 57

limit blade beam
% projectile damage unchanged: 19%

up special (climhazzard)
% launcher damage unchanged: 4% (1v1 → 4.8%)
% descent damage unchanged: 4.5% (1v1 → 5.4%)

limit climhazzard
% rising damage unchanged: 7% (1v1 → 8.4%)

side special (cross slash)
startup frame unchanged: 10
% total damage unchanged: 19% (1v1 → 22.8%)

limit cross slash
startup frame unchanged: 10
% total damage unchanged: 26% (1v1 → 31.2%)
total frames unchanged: 60
? shield freeze frames noticeably increased

grab
✘ standing grab total frames increased: 32 → 35
✘ pummel damage reduction: 3 → 1.2%

forward throw
% damage unchanged: 7% (1v1 → 8.4%)

back throw
% damage unchanged: 6% (1v1 → 7.2%)

down throw
% damage unchanged: 7% (1v1 → 8.4%)

What else did you spot?

 

[san.]

Nice. I am curious about the bair landing lag.

If it's really 8 frames, that sounds very good.

Edit: Found it here:

 

[Rizen]

Did Cloud's sword length get reduced?

 

[Flon]

Did Cloud's sword length get reduced?

It's really difficult to tell. I can't exactly find a perfect 1-to-1 comparison but from everything I've seen so far it seems the sword is the same length.

Not the best comparison as they have slight differences in perspective but it does show that the sword hasn't noticably shrunk either.

Though, I do think it's possible that more of his animations have been adjusted to reduce his range somewhat, like with neutral air.

 

[Ultinarok]

So basically, they just toned down his brain dead moves and added punishment for Limit camping?

I'm completely fine with this. Now I can fully enjoy Cloud without feeling like a tool for playing an overpowered character. They kept his style intact and just reduced the dominance of his overtuned traits. The limit expiration/meter depletion will have no effect on my playstyle whatsoever.

 

[-Cr0w-]

Does anybody know if his FH D-air still autocancels in Limit?