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Ducking Viability, from a G&W main. Please read.

NouveauRétro

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 10, 2015
Messages
319
Location
Long Island, currently upstate
NNID
Royal_Bros.
While collecting data on ducking and such from G&W I figured other characters with awesome ducks might want in on some of this data collection action.
So I'm gonna share my notes with the Wii Fit, Kirby and Jigglypuff Boards.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1-Lx4EUmrYVU9hX3ExCAsHea3vZvJdJolXAqV63aZnBM/edit?usp=sharing
Here's a viewing link for most grounded moves G&W can duck in the game. I recommend using it as a springboard since we'll share a lot of the moves.

^I created this tier list from the list based off how much ducking affected the character's ground game.
EDIT-Whoops, forgot to put this here:
Explanation of Grading
Grading is based off how effective a G&W who often ducks is against these characters when both are grounded in the neutral
A+: Limits pretty much any good grounded approach option against this character and restricts most options in general, forcing the opponent to change how they play completely
A-: Limits grounded approach options heavily, but there is a way for the opponent to beat it but it takes a large risk in being shielded
B+: Limits enough options or good/often used enough options to make the opponent occasionally think twice about their options
B-: Limits some options but multiple simple and noncommital ways to beat it so that they don't have to change neutral much, or is inconsistent against some options
C: Limits one or two decent options that character has, but you have to duck it on hard read and the opponent has other non-duckable options that have an equal chance of being used, or avoids/makes hard to land a/some good options but is inconsistent(damn you animated hurtboxes!)
D: Can avoid a grounded approach or attack option, but it isn't an often used or good option.
F: Useless, can't avoid anything other than maybe an option that's already never used anyway


OK, that's the common section:

CHARACTER SPECIFIC SECTION; JIGGS

I know you're gonna need all the help you can get(#buffpuff) So I thought this'd help. Jigg's duck is very low initially so maybe you can do something against the higher tiers in this list with that. I dunno much about you other than that you have a great duck.
Your ducking animation is a bit of a problem but if you duck with good timing I don't think it should get in the way too much of ducking the same moves we're capable of.

EDIT: This is an alternate version of the tier list that takes a bit more into account how important the moves being ducked are(Actually I just put some characters in the wrong tiers when translating from my Duck List -_-) This time I tried to order them within the tiers up to F where it doesn't matter.
 
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Kojii

Smash Apprentice
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Oct 11, 2014
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171
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Afrooooo
3DS FC
1650-1652-7604
Great job!
It's worth noting that crouch is frame 2(!) so it's faster than spot dodging.
 

NouveauRétro

Smash Journeyman
Joined
May 10, 2015
Messages
319
Location
Long Island, currently upstate
NNID
Royal_Bros.
Great job!
It's worth noting that crouch is frame 2(!) so it's faster than spot dodging.
Yes. It's faster than spot dodging, less committal so you don't have to worry about getting hit with a charged smash attack if read, and in the case of the A tiers a considerable matchup advantage. Very good considering how viable and relevant the 3 A tiers are.
And now that I think about it reading and ducking a lot of the moves in B tier up will setup a guaranteed Rest, so that' s bonus too.
 
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KniteBlargh

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Oct 14, 2015
Messages
285
Nice info, thank you! :)

This is probably going to sound silly (been wary of sharing because of that, which is sillier), but it's something that's helped me in a few matches, and I feel it applies to this chart, so here it goes... I don't know if this maneuver has a name already (it's something that can be done by quite a few characters, but not so much with Mr. G&W), but a while back, I started rapidly wiggling my thumbstick between :GCD: and :GCL: or :GCR: (basically moving a bit below and above the lower corners of your thumbstick gate if you're using a GameCube controller) to perform a sort of crouch walk I've dubbed two extremely silly names: Puff Squats and Puff Scoot. It looks like teabagging, only you actually have a certain amount of momentum and can use it to inch toward another position. Jigglypuff's momentum is slight, but I've found at times I've been able to use it to inch away from an opponent who ends up missing an attack either because I'm crouching or moved just enough to be out of range, and then can either use my :GCCN: set to tilts for an uptilt, or do whatever else that's quick enough. Another silly application is that when I've had the occasional neutral B spamming Bayonetta trying to camp, I can actually wiggle toward them without getting hit by any bullets and attack. Obviously not something to be abused, but it's cute/funny as heck, and has its benefits every once in a while. What's funny is that I've since noticed Void using this maneuver with his Sheik, but of course Sheik gets a bit more momentum since she can crawl anyway, but her duck isn't as good as ours.

While on the topic of Jigglypuff's duck, I've also found ducking in-place against opponents who are too dair happy and then following with an uptilt using :GCCN: while still holding :GCD: has been kind of handy; it eliminates enough vulnerable frames in some cases to get the attack in thanks to the size of the hurtbox as apposed to using :GCU: after the crouch.
 
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