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Dthrow>Cyclone Video

ThunderSt0rm

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NOTICE: The information in this post only applies to patches before ver. 1.1.1, as dthrow and cyclone knockback were adjusted in the 1.1.1 update.


I've seen and heard a lot of mention of dthrow to cyclone around and most of the time what I've heard of it was slightly inaccurate or the combo just wasn't receiving the praise it deserves, so I decided to make this video. This is a very reliable kill option for Luigi, easy to execute, and kills at early-mid percents on most of the cast.

If something isn't mentioned in the video or more clarification is wanted, just reply here and I'll try to help out the best I can. I haven't really made a tutorial or informational video before so I'm hoping what I included in the video is enough to get the main points across.


Dthrow>Cyclone Kill Percents (before dthrow)

Mario – 98%
Luigi – 89%
Peach – 89%
Bowser – 118%
Yoshi – 93%
Rosalina – 86%
Bowser Jr – 112%
Wario – 107%
Donkey Kong – 128%
Diddy Kong – 107%
Game & Watch – 78%
Little Mac – 105%
Link – 112%

Zelda – 90%
Sheik – 99%
Ganon – 116%
Toon Link – 92%
Samus – 102%
Zero Suit Samus – 101%
Pit – 105%
Palutena – 91%
Marth – 105%
Ike – 115%
Robin – 100%
Duck Hunt Dog – 102%
Kirby – 77%

King Dedede – 133%
Meta Knight – 91%
Fox – 104%
Falco – 101%
Pikachu – 89%
Charizard – 109%
Lucario – 110%
Jigglypuff – 69%
Greninja – 107%
Rob – 120%
Ness – 93%
Captain Falcon – 125%
Villager – 97%

Olimar – 85%
Wii Fit Trainer – 99%
Shulk – 113%
Shulk (Jump) – 118%
Shulk (Speed) – 112%
Shulk (Shield) – 200+ (Not worth it)
Shulk (Buster) – 108%
Shulk (Smash) – 74%
Dr. Mario – 99%
Dark Pit – 104%
Lucina – 105%
Pac-Man – 95%
Mega Man – 117%
Sonic – 100%
Mewtwo – 91%
Lucas – 93%
Roy – 112%
Ryu – 109%
Mii Brawler (Small) – 104%
Mii Brawler (Default) – 106%
Mii Swordfighter (Small) – 101%
Mii Gunner (Small) – 97%

All kill percents found on default Final Destination while at 0%. These percents do not account for DI/Vectoring or Rage.
 
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Lexiconz

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Hi thunder, nice vid and thanks for the contribution for the forum , my question is.. do i do a short hop down b? or a full hop down b, two hop down b? whats the right set up ? cause in the vid you said its not depends on the di of the target ;)
 

busken

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Hi thunder, nice vid and thanks for the contribution for the forum , my question is.. do i do a short hop down b? or a full hop down b, two hop down b? whats the right set up ? cause in the vid you said its not depends on the di of the target ;)
The DI of the target does not determine how high you jump, it is the percentage that does. In most cases, you will want to short hop down special because Luigi's full hop is too high, and a short hop allows you to react to where the opponent influences their direction being either left or right.
 

Shoyo James

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I've found out if you're going for a kill, that fullhopping will always be your best bet. Anything under 80% or so, you can short hop. If you short hop over 80% you'll definitely be punished, or at least be very vulnerable.
 

ThunderSt0rm

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Hi thunder, nice vid and thanks for the contribution for the forum , my question is.. do i do a short hop down b? or a full hop down b, two hop down b? whats the right set up ? cause in the vid you said its not depends on the di of the target ;)
You should almost always be doing at minimum a fullhop. When you start the downb during your jump is what matters because you ideally want to catch someone with the edge hitbox as you're jumping up towards them. Mess around with your jump heights and when you should be starting downb during your jump to get a feel for when to use specific jump heights.

I've found out if you're going for a kill, that fullhopping will always be your best bet. Anything under 80% or so, you can short hop. If you short hop over 80% you'll definitely be punished, or at least be very vulnerable.
Even under 80% you should be fullhopping in most cases if you're intending to kill with downb. Otherwise you won't end the downb high enough so that they will die from it. I doubt that any characters can even die below 80% to this other than maybe Jigglypuff, but if that's the case then that character will likely be floaty/light and as a result, you'd need to fullhop to reach them after the dthrow.
 
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hey_there

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Excellent video! Now I know why sometimes the combo doesn't kill for me, or my opponents fall out.
 

sims796

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Dang, man, I see things like this, and it reminds me that I'm merely "good" at Luigi. I need a lot more practice.
 

ThunderSt0rm

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I got lazy with finding the kill percents, and I'm currently letting someone borrow my gc adapter so hopefully I'll continue updating this as soon as next week (unless I feel like dealing with the game pad but it's doubtful).
 

Dr.Faustus

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I've been trying this 'till I'm red in the face vs a cpu captain falcon and I can't make it happen. I can't even determine what I am doing wrong, he just keeps spilling out of the bottom. I am trying to do that horizontal edge motion mentioned at the end of the video to no avail. Any advice?
 

Lexiconz

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im having the same problem as mentioned above... could only do it once or twice... should i smash de b button fast? or normal? cause sometimes i think i should smash it noraml.. idk ..
 

ThunderSt0rm

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If there's difficulty with doing the rise on some characters then just opt for the guaranteed damage by not rising with cyclone. You can always keep them in the full cyclone if wanted, but as mentioned in the video you sacrifice killing at earlier percents.

A lot of my findings were from just messing around vs cpus so experiment with this to try finding the best way to get the rise on chars like falcon.
 

crashbfan

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If there's difficulty with doing the rise on some characters then just opt for the guaranteed damage by not rising with cyclone. You can always keep them in the full cyclone if wanted, but as mentioned in the video you sacrifice killing at earlier percents.

A lot of my findings were from just messing around vs cpus so experiment with this to try finding the best way to get the rise on chars like falcon.
WRONG...
 

Kursed

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I'm not a big fan of this combo but after viewing the damage it truly does, i will use this more often. It seems to me that when when i try to aerial kill I always use neutral air. Though it doesn't work most of the time I still use it to make sure they don't try to attack me at the same time.
 

elmike

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@ Dr.Faustus Dr.Faustus , @ Lexiconz Lexiconz , did any of you figured it out how to perform it exactly?

Im not able to do it either. I'm also trying vs c.falcon in trainning. Not even at 1/4 speed....
 

Lexiconz

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Hi @ elmike elmike so, yesterday i went to a little tourney of friends, of 20 people i get the 4, and was quite happy cause i get the kill twice there.. so.. i think the way to do it, is practice it again and again until you get the timing and the smashing right, after some practice, go and rewatch the video of thunder, it helps alot , bcs you can imagine yourself doing it.. some advises i can give is

: be fast.. see where your oponnent di's to and (almost, not everytime) fullhop and down b to it. try to get him above you or at least at your side.. and try to do it like he advise in the vid.. make a horizontal di to get them stuck into the downb .. that's much it.. even some pros dont get it all the time..

but i hope it helps someway.. any other question that i could help or so , feel free to ask :) cya
 

elmike

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Hi @ elmike elmike
: be fast.. see where your oponnent di's to and (almost, not everytime) fullhop and down b to it. try to get him above you or at least at your side.. and try to do it like he advise in the vid.. make a horizontal di to get them stuck into the downb .. that's much it.. even some pros dont get it all the time..

but i hope it helps someway.. any other question that i could help or so , feel free to ask :) cya
Thank you. I have 2 main questions:
1.- should i by smashing the b button a lot and very fast?
2.- assuming the opponent doesnt di, when i follow the opponent, should i always be prressing the stick in one direction only? For example, always only to the right? or diagonally? or does the direction changes will the cyclone is moving?
 

Lexiconz

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@ elmike elmike i have someway the same doubts.. even i getting this tech sometimes up, im not the best person to answer, would like to see someone who can consistently do this answer those.
 

ThunderSt0rm

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Thank you. I have 2 main questions:
1.- should i by smashing the b button a lot and very fast?
2.- assuming the opponent doesnt di, when i follow the opponent, should i always be prressing the stick in one direction only? For example, always only to the right? or diagonally? or does the direction changes will the cyclone is moving?
1. Once again, the amount of mashing you should be doing depends on the character you're hitting as well as the spacing you initially hit them at. This is something you will have to get a feel for by messing around when playing cpus, but for the most part you can know to either mash more or mash less by using visual cues. For example, if you see someone heading towards the lower portion of your body during cyclone.

Just know that dthrow>cyclone is always guaranteed in some form, either by mashing a lot, not mashing much, or not mashing at all (excluding extremely high %s when hit by dthrow as they eventually fly too far away, but if they're that high then bthrow should kill them instead). The only problem is if you don't mash, they won't die as early because you are farther away from the ceiling. The point of the later half of the video was to show that it is possible to kill every character earlier by correctly spacing cyclone so that it will take them with you as you rise.

2. For most characters you should be able to just hold left or right while rising (aka luigi would be moving diagonally upwards, but you are only holding left or right while mashing to rise). I may have found an interesting way to keep the fastfallers in cyclone more consistently while still rising for an earlier kill so I'll look into it more and come back with the results.
 

Swanky_

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Okay, so if I'm fighting Luigi... if he doesn't mess up, he has the combo guaranteed. If he messed up though, what should i be doing to take advantage of that and get out? or is fate basically in luigi's hands once he's got me?

I am a Diddy main, if fall speed and such is relevant here
 
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ThunderSt0rm

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Okay, so if I'm fighting Luigi... if he doesn't mess up, he has the combo guaranteed. If he messed up though, what should i be doing to take advantage of that and get out? or is fate basically in luigi's hands once he's got me?

I am a Diddy main, if fall speed and such is relevant here
The full combo is guaranteed as mentioned, but remember that they have to mash less if they see you falling out of it if they want the full hit. Plus you won't die as early as a result of being lower to the ground.

Depending on how much hitstun you get stuck with from the spike hitboxes if you fall out, you can attempt to uair for an early kill as you're below him and probably higher up from the ground than usual.
 

crashbfan

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The full combo is guaranteed as mentioned, but remember that they have to mash less if they see you falling out of it if they want the full hit. Plus you won't die as early as a result of being lower to the ground.

Depending on how much hitstun you get stuck with from the spike hitboxes if you fall out, you can attempt to uair for an early kill as you're below him and probably higher up from the ground than usual.
WRONG.
 

Delvro

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Hi everyone, I've been having some problems getting this combo to work, especially at higher percents.

I do dthrow > fullhop cyclone, and at higher percents (around 130% or so) they always seem to be able to airdodge. I've watched a lot of videos of good players doing it successfully and it seems these players usually start the rising cyclone about halfway between the ground and their opponent (in your video it works at 144%). But I can't seem to get it to work.

Secondly, has anyone had any success killing Shulk in shield stance with this move? I don't think it's any good vs him, he either falls out of it or it doesn't kill because he won't rise high enough.

Thanks a lot for the video.
 
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DavemanCozy

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Someone who is a Luigi main should test these percentages post-patch 1.06. I've been hearing things about the cyclone's last hit getting a KB nerf.

I tried testing it with Mario in 3DS Final Destination and it doesn't seem to KO him till much later than the percentage listed here, but I'm no Luigi main and might be doing it wrong.

Confirmed false. D-throw cyclones still work. Percentages should still be checked, just in case.
 
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ThunderSt0rm

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Someone who is a Luigi main should test these percentages post-patch 1.06. I've been hearing things about the cyclone's last hit getting a KB nerf.

I tried testing it with Mario in 3DS Final Destination and it doesn't seem to KO him till much later than the percentage listed here, but I'm no Luigi main and might be doing it wrong.

Confirmed false. D-throw cyclones still work. Percentages should still be checked, just in case.
Working on it along with the rest of the cast (for real this time).
 

Squiiidzoid

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i have the 3ds version so i have to do shorthop> instant doublejump before the down b, since i dont have a shoulder button for jump, so i cant do a fullhop and down b at the same time.
 

Sir_Africa

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So quick question! I know that the more I mash the more damage/likely I am to kill my opponent. My question is, do I have to hold up and/or down while mashing to help concontrol direction? Or does it not matter? Btw I have no idea how to recover with cyclone, I can never seem to move upward with it only down.
 

Peppa

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When is d-throw Nair a better option than cyclone? Never? Or is it when my opponent is too high for the cyclone to combo?
If I'm wrong, I'd love to be corrected for my own knowledge, but I stop going for the cyclones around kill percents of dthrow nair, which I full hope DJ to hit the spacing better, helps me hit that sweet spot nicely. My golden goal for nair if its lasted that long is 140%
 

pipex

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Sweatspotted nair does 12% damage, tornado does 9%. From 0%-65% on ypur opponent, trying to combo is your best shot. 65%-95% is that weird percentage in wich you can´t kill (ignoring air up-B or border-staged down-grab into Bair), and where you can´t combo. I think going for a sweatspotted nair is the best option beacause it does the most damage (Unless you are willing to stale your Bair) and it is easy to hit. Down-grab into Nair does 18% plus pummels, so this and a couple of fireball will leave your opponet at kill percentage. Then, from 95-120%, Down-B can kill so go for it. If you couldn´t kill your opponent before crossing the 120% line, us Nair for the kill, beacuase is easy to connect (sometimes you need to use your second jump) and probably your ´nado is stale at that point. If not, be careful because at high percentages your opponent can escape more easily with smash DI. And if that didn´t work, back-throw may kill.

I may be wrong with some percenteages, but they depend on rage and your opponent´s weight and floatines. You will get the feeling of them with some practice. This is my opinion and I am open for discussion =). Sorry for the bad english
 
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ThunderSt0rm

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If they di away from you from dthrow you will not be hitting them with nair, whereas regardless of how they di dthrow, you can still reach them with cyclone.

Updated OP with kill percents for Lucas, Roy, and Ryu.
 

Steelballray

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Hello. Is anyone having trouble trying to keep Sheik into the tornado? I've been getting good feelings for the mashing and I try to mess around with the directions I move to but my friend who plays Sheik almost always manage to get out of it.
 
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