Social Dr. Mario Social Thread - Witches? Dragons?...I've seen worse walk into my office.

[MistressRemilia]

Heh heh heh. I've been saying it's an even matchup. People don't value having low committal moves.

https://twitter.com/LarryLurr/status/788592406702718976

Eeeh, i'm still not a huge fan of it, even though it's one of the trickiest matchups Mewtwo has to face.
Advantage State against Mewtwo is absurd, any of his commitments if not successful wil results in huge damage.
Bair & Cape are pretty valuable pokes to play neutral against Mewtwo, but we're still losing it overall.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Eeeh, i'm still not a huge fan of it, even though it's one of the trickiest matchups Mewtwo has to face.
Advantage State against Mewtwo is absurd, any of his commitments if not successful wil results in huge damage.
Bair & Cape are pretty valuable pokes to play neutral against Mewtwo, but we're still losing it overall.

Mewtwo cannot kill from full screen or far away unless you do something extremely unsafe or predictable. Doc is slow, but he is not very unsafe. That's exactly why it's not a losing matchup. Mewtwo has to come close to kill, and by doing so, he is putting himself at risk. He is light, he doesn't have good OOS options, he is tall. He will probably get hit if he isn't careful.

What about down-tilt? It's a really good ground poke, but it tends to lose to aerials (Marth/Lucina Fair, etc.). Doc's bair should work here. What about neutral air? Great if it hits, but it has poor range and gets stuffed out by a lot of aerials. What about forward air? This is a great move, and you should respect it, but it doesn't have the best range. You can trade with it.

Mewtwo has to whiff punish or read what you are doing in order to hit you.

Speaking of Larry Lurr and Doc, I saw him playing a bit of Doc on his most recent stream. Will link it in the video thread.

 

[MistressRemilia]

Mewtwo cannot kill from full screen or far away unless you do something extremely unsafe or predictable. Doc is slow, but he is not very unsafe. That's exactly why it's not a losing matchup. Mewtwo has to come close to kill, and by doing so, he is putting himself at risk. He is light, he doesn't have good OOS options, he is tall. He will probably get hit if he isn't careful.

What about down-tilt? It's a really good ground poke, but it tends to lose to aerials (Marth/Lucina Fair, etc.). Doc's bair should work here. What about neutral air? Great if it hits, but it has poor range and gets stuffed out by a lot of aerials. What about forward air? This is a great move, and you should respect it, but it doesn't have the best range. You can trade with it.

Mewtwo has to whiff punish or read what you are doing in order to hit you.

Speaking of Larry Lurr and Doc, I saw him playing a bit of Doc on his most recent stream. Will link it in the video thread.

Eeeeh, that's kind of untrue when it comes to " Mewtwo can't kill us "
It's definitly not a matchup where we can afford to get reckless at any time but still, managing to avoid every Fair to the point of it not being threatening for our life would be kind of amazing on the Doc's player part, and it is a tool that outranges us and that we won't be able to punish most of the time. I'll give you that the rest of his options to kill us are indeed upclose options, but on the other hand, Mewtwo does have a fair amount of options to punish us in disadvantage state after a non commital non killing option, if it does set Doc into a landing, or recovering situation.
Agreed on the whole upclose game, i'd like to add that Mewtwo's CQC is respectable, but not perfect. There's a range you can sometimes reach & that you should aim for as Doc, where you do outframe Mewtwo efficiently, and may allow you to strike with some deadly blows. DownTilt is a pretty awkward move to deal with, but our positivity on trades with it with our aerials makes it less of an annoying factor, moreso in Mid to High%. The main threat is the one of " What's coming after that DownTilt? " which is arguably one of the key elements of this matchup: Its possible to carry the advantage if you do know what option Mewtwo may go for after, but most of the time it's his fault if the situation turns in your favor, like you read him or something. Most of the situations after are neutral ( Trades ) or a simple reset of neutral.

Interesting, i do hope Larry pulls out Doc in Tournament, he's been struggling with Mewtwo, so he may pull it out against Abadango, Rich Brown or Wadi. This will definitly be interesting to follow, and certainly a good showcase of how this matchup plays.

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

Eeeeh, that's kind of untrue when it comes to " Mewtwo can't kill us "
It's definitly not a matchup where we can afford to get reckless at any time but still, managing to avoid every Fair to the point of it not being threatening for our life would be kind of amazing on the Doc's player part, and it is a tool that outranges us and that we won't be able to punish most of the time. I'll give you that the rest of his options to kill us are indeed upclose options, but on the other hand, Mewtwo does have a fair amount of options to punish us in disadvantage state after a non commital non killing option, if it does set Doc into a landing, or recovering situation.
Agreed on the whole upclose game, i'd like to add that Mewtwo's CQC is respectable, but not perfect. There's a range you can sometimes reach & that you should aim for as Doc, where you do outframe Mewtwo efficiently, and may allow you to strike with some deadly blows. DownTilt is a pretty awkward move to deal with, but our positivity on trades with it with our aerials makes it less of an annoying factor, moreso in Mid to High%. The main threat is the one of " What's coming after that DownTilt? " which is arguably one of the key elements of this matchup: Its possible to carry the advantage if you do know what option Mewtwo may go for after, but most of the time it's his fault if the situation turns in your favor, like you read him or something. Most of the situations after are neutral ( Trades ) or a simple reset of neutral.

Interesting, i do hope Larry pulls out Doc in Tournament, he's been struggling with Mewtwo, so he may pull it out against Abadango, Rich Brown or Wadi. This will definitly be interesting to follow, and certainly a good showcase of how this matchup plays.

I said Mewtwo can't kill us UNLESS we do something extremely unsafe or predictable. I am not going to advise you to throw out moves recklessly. I know how powerful Mewtwo's whiff punishes are (Shadowball reads, Fair punishes, grab -> up throw, etc.). But I am saying that because of his frame data, Doc doesn't give Mewtwo as easy of an opening to punish him.

Mewtwo's CQC game is not good. Nothing respectable about it. His fastest attack is 6 frames (down tilt and jab, and Mewtwo hardly uses his jab because it is not very good), compared to our 2-3 frame jab, and 3 frame Up-B.

 

[Coolwhip]

Hello fellow docs. Feels like most of us don't come by here anymore, Discord is taking over.

 

[Mirax96]

Hello, fellow Doc mains!
A certain thing appened to me in the last couple of days...
I couldn't play Smash for 3 months and now that I grabbed the controller again I of course tried Doc and... It didn't "feel" quite as natural as it used to be. That's strange because I had even bigger time gaps without playing the game and I never felt this way. I'm finding myself continuously messing up with the lag of the moves and I can't seem to get a single grab anymore.
What do, Doc Hell?

 

[Coolwhip]

No one really comes here much anymore, you'll find us over at Discord.

 

[Heracr055]

I'm not playing Smash 4 as much since Pokemon Sun came out. I have been dabbling with Doc again when I do play (giving Ryu a break for now). I actually feel less vulnerable with him than Ryu. All the janky multi-hit moves that kill Focus Attack are not being as big an issue with Doc's UpB plowing through it. I feel Doc has better control of neutral thanks to pills, too (Hadokens have too much endlag). I'm having a blast playing Doc again, even though I die stupid early sometimes with him

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

https://twitter.com/b7games/status/805996888218484736 - Interesting Chart. I don't agree with lots of it though.

 

[MistressRemilia]

https://twitter.com/b7games/status/805996888218484736 - Interesting Chart. I don't agree with lots of it though.

Interesting indeed, there's a bunch of things i'd agree with while some are a bit more questionable.
I am one to think Doc is a very efficient character against most kinds of zoners that rely on projectiles to do so: Doc's fluent gameplay, amazing autocancels & insane anti zoning tool in Cape makes most of these matchups fairly even in terms of neutral game: Just a matter of not giving up stage control. Doc will outreward a majority of zoners and is actually pretty good at using a few zoners' tool against them ( We have a few bomb, banana & Metal blade setups that can lead into combos or kills )
I'd agree Doc loses to Charizard, but this matchup isn't Rosa/Donkey Kong level of bad. Once again, Doc's fluent gameplay plays in his favor, as Charizard may sometimes find himself outframed by Doc's moves, moreso on the aerial part, when trying to build a wall of moves to stop Doc from approaching. That being said, the character is one of the best at exploiting our disadvantage state.
I also think Zero Suit Samus, Cloud & Corrin are rougher than that. These characters' range over us is glaring and it is hard to deal with in the neutral. They also usually have one very efficient way of exploiting our disadvantage, like Cloud & ZSS' UpAir, and Corrin's disjointed hitboxes in general. They're exploitable & beatable, but they're not even.

 

[Ih8heels]

I disagree with that bigly.

Manhands is a joke to me

RoSTALINa can be easily stage spiked since her up B is non offensive & only an idiot would use her charge move.

That guy clearly sucks as Doc if frigging DK gives him problems.

 

[Doc Mario]

I honestly think that Rosalina's Doc's worst matchup, Nice thread by the way

 

[Eight_SixtyFour]

I don't think we lose to any heavy that isn't DK. Bowser and Charizard are risky, Dorf has bad mobility (but great range and great aerials for how fast they are). D3 has range and lives forever, but he is slow and very unsafe.

Corrin isn't really on the same level of difficulty as ZSS. Too slow for that, reliant on side b to set up kills. Cloud has a mediocre ground game, and his Nair, while good, isn't very safe if it isn't spaced properly and he gets comboed for it.

I don't know why he thinks Doc's easiest matchup is Falco. Easier than Jiggs or Kirby?

 

[Doc Mario]

I don't think we lose to any heavy that isn't DK. Bowser and Charizard are risky, Dorf has bad mobility (but great range and great aerials for how fast they are). D3 has range and lives forever, but he is slow and very unsafe.

Corrin isn't really on the same level of difficulty as ZSS. Too slow for that, reliant on side b to set up kills. Cloud has a mediocre ground game, and his Nair, while good, isn't very safe if it isn't spaced properly and he gets comboed for it.

I don't know why he thinks Doc's easiest matchup is Falco. Easier than Jiggs or Kirby?

You made some good points honestly, I think people exaggerate on the whole Cloud Vs Dr. Mario matchup in my opinion but whatever.

 

[Coolwhip]

We need to find a way to make this place more interactive again. Finding a good balance between here and Discord.

 

[MistressRemilia]

Just giving a quick shoutouts to B7Games for his 33th place at Midwest Mayhem Saga, beating Aphro twice, as well as Zex.
Very respectable run, hope you'll keep on going with the good results, well done.

 

[Coolwhip]

Just giving a quick shoutouts to B7Games for his 33th place at Midwest Mayhem Saga, beating Aphro twice, as well as Zex.
Very respectable run, hope you'll keep on going with the good results, well done.

Most of us was watching the live stream over at Discord. @b7games did his thing!

 

[Dr. λ]

Does Dr. Mario actually have a diploma?

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

He has a physical doctorate degree.