Down-Throw to Down-Tilt

[ZTD | TECHnology]

So I've been toying around with buffering Down-Tilt from Down Throw and the original guide says:

It just seems like you can land these on the "ledge-only" characters at any time. And in addition...

I've been landing it on those characters too. Mario is a bit harder...Link, Ivysaur and Samus is hella easy for me.

I just know that Vayseth gathered this information for the confirmed characters like ages ago. And Im not sure what factors his methods take into consideration or used. Based off the physics of the infinite CG and whatnot, I don't see this being a stretch for these additional characters. I mean I know we have the frame advantages from Down-Throw documented and that's why I feel like this is actually feasible. Plus if we can land Up Smash on those characters we have 20/21 frame advantage on..why not this on some of the other ones? But trajectory from the throw also plays a role, this I know..I just want to see if this has been accounted for or has this stuff just has not been documented. Aero or someone let me know.

Can we get some frame data or something to confirm this? I just wanna know if ANY of this is legit.

- TC

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'll check it out when I get home. :D

Can you gimme specific in game commands or is it just buffering a dtilt?

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Character | Dtilt hits (Ground) | Dtilt hits (Ledge) Mario | - | ?
Luigi | - | ?
Peach | - | ?
Bowser | Yes | Yes
DK | Yes | Yes
Diddy | - | ?
Yoshi | - | Yes
Wario | - | -
Link | Yes | -
Zelda | ? | ?
Sheik | ? | ?
Ganondorf | - | -
Toon Link | - | -
Samus | Yes | Yes
Pit | - | -
Ice Climbers | - | -
R.O.B. | Yes | Yes
Kirby | ? | ?
Meta Knight | ? | ?
King Dedede | - | Yes
Olimar | ? | ?
Fox | ? | ?
Falco | ? | ?
Wolf | Yes | Yes
Captain Falcon | - | -
Pikachu | ? | ?
Squirtle | ? | ?
Ivysaur | Yes | Yes
Charizard | Yes | Yes
Lucario | - | -
Jigglypuff | ? | ?
Marth | - | -
Ike | - | -
Ness | - | -
Lucas | - | -
G&W | ? | ?
Snake | Yes | Yes
Sonic | - | -

Grab Release:

Ness: No
Lucas: No

--------------------

Tech Chase, you have a really good eye for this stuff.

Okay, in the table, stuff with question marks haven't been tested since they have a 0/-1 frame advantage.

I forgot to test Peach, Mario, Diddy and Luigi on the ledge.

'-' means no.

Who is Vayseth, and I wonder how he did his testing?

 

[bubbaking]

Vayseth made the previous CG and GR guide. Also, did you test out the pummel release on the PK kids? I'm certain that Vayseth wrote in his guide that dtilt is guaranteed on them after a pummel release and I've managed to do it myself. It doesn't work with a regular ground release, though.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Huh, really? I know that pummel releases are different to normal releases, but I forgot to test that.

 

[bubbaking]

This is the guide Vayseth created:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=237961

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Interesting.

I'm not going to test it now, however.

For some horrible reason I feel like playing single player Brawl.

I'm going to add that table to my frame data thread. Keep an eye out on it, because I'm planning on overhauling the entire thread.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Tech Chase, you have a really good eye for this stuff.

Okay, in the table, stuff with question marks haven't been tested since they have a 0/-1 frame advantage.

I forgot to test Peach, Mario, Diddy and Luigi on the ledge.

'-' means no.

Who is Vayseth, and I wonder how he did his testing?

Vayseth was pretty much the original "me" I suppose. He spent a good amount of time helping people on the boards and gathering information. He's even from the same state as me even though he moved to Japan several years ago. I just wonder how he managed to miss like all these characters....

And thanks lol. I've been playing this character too long and I just knew that Down-Tilt was guaranteed on more people than the original guide said. Just had to get this confirmed. So this could help with these MUs a little bit. I am pleased. I supposed I need to edit my moveset guide to reflect these new discoveries.

Thanks for looking into this. I just needed to make sure I wasn't crazy or anything lmao.

Another victory for the penguin baby.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

One good thing about this is that we've discovered that we can dtilt people on the ground even though we didn't think we could. Snake's the big one, but ROB is also a nice addition the the "any time" pile.

As if Ivysaur didn't suck enough.

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

Man, I'm a ****.

I just made these low tier MUs even more stupid. LMAO.

But adding Snake and ROB to that category is pretty big and I'll definitely take it!

 

[Bobwithlobsters]

How do you space three down tilt at the edge? Is there a specific distance and how particular is the spacing?

 

[ZTD | TECHnology]

The spacing is somewhat forgiving.

Ideally, you want to Down Throw them so that they just shoot off the ledge in hitstun. You can't be too far away because they'll just grab the ledge. You also can't be too close (like don't be at the ledge when you down throw) You need to be like half a character length-ish away . Once you find the spacing its super easy. And now that spacing doesn't even matter for most of these characters.

Thanks again Aero for confirming my suspicions.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

The starting position on FD is basically the right place for the ledge one.

it's somewhat lenient though.

 

[bubbaking]

This is great! No need to throw them offstage and work for the gimp at high %'s when we can just dtilt 'em.