Doubles tactical disscusion and strategy

[Light_13]

Hello, This thread is meant for the purpose of discussing doubles strategy. Some overlook doubles as a type of tournament play that is just for fun or a warm-up for your upcoming singles event, while others will look at it being equally or more competitively than singles. You might see threads talking about who your character should be matched with and how you should concentrate in the battle. But there are also strategies one could use along with their partners to put the match in their favor. Me and my partner have our personal favorites for each types of teams. They may vary from stalling the low tier or least likely to win character, or double teaming one character to leave the match at a 2v1.



I would like to read different strategies/tactics the community uses with their partner that have been known to work or are in the process of working.

Please no flaming even if the stradegy seems questionably stupid. And my most helpful advice to anyone in doubles is; first team to lose a character is at the greatest disadvantage that could be placed in a doubles match if the team knows how to cooperate with eachother. In the case they dont, its basicly a 3-man free for all LOL.


I'll post more on this if it survives.
Please discuss!^.^

 

[Sosuke]

People really do overlook doubles.
Everyone just gets knowledge from person experience. ._.

So yeah, this is a good idea. @_@


Just putting that out there.

 

[Gindler]

Finally something about doubles! brawl doubles >>> brawl singles




And no one better say ZSS+GW=best thing ever or I'll die!

 

[Phantomwake]

And no one better say ZSS+GW=best thing ever or I'll die!

It is pretty good

Bucket tricks arguably makes G&W the best character for teams, Being perfectly viable otherwise thanks to his silly good smashes and his ridiculous ability to stay alive for as long as heavier characters.

ZSS dsmash is simply a perfect bucket attack. It fills the bucket for a one hit KO faster than anything else and it is important to acknowledge how devastating a 1HKO is. I often underplay it but it will always change the dynamic of a game.

 

[cutter]

lol Gindler when the G&W/ZSS combo is actually seriously considered for banning in NY, you know you have a pretty busted tactic

Even better, ZSS can paralyze opponents with Dsmash and neutral B allowing G&W to get easy 0-death kills that quickly turn the tables of the match.

And yes Brawl Doubles >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brawl Singles

 

[Gindler]

Lol, I've seen teams try that. Throwing an egg stops bucket with no problem.

Oh and keeping them separated with an MK is a farely easy task.

No arguing that G&W is amazing in teams, it just gets old seeing people with 2 posts saying it's an unbeatable combo that'll never lose to anything else (otherwise wouldn't everyone be doing it?). It's hilarious that the combo is considering being banned though, those NewYorkians

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FglXWNlQlOc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E345gCAagwU
oh, that's all you gotta do...these guys are fairly well known for the combo but they're pretty horrible players without it as you can tell, double MK ha

 

[Commander_Beef]

Umm. . .okay. There should be a way around this, because Marth and Meta Knight together is broken already.

 

[_Phloat_]

Double edgeguarding works well, if you do it very well.

The idea is to get them in situation where their options are

a) get hit
b) airdodge.. get hit by player 2
c) attack, get hit by player 2.
d) drift away, and not make it back


Should always result in a kill, although human error and reaction time means it often wont.. learn it though.

Learn to save teammates, and to space smashes so they hit grabbed opponents, or the grabber, but not both...

 

[Maniclysane]

They may vary from stalling the low tier or least likely to win character, or double teaming one character to leave the match at a 2v1.

If life stealing is on, then that one player that got ***** can take lives from the player not being *****. Teaming on one person for a bit is still a good strategy.

 

[Bellioes]

I beleive that characters with grabs that put your opponent on the ground (G&W Dthrow, Snake Dthrow and others I dont recall)seems really effective in teams. As long as they dont tech, One person stays behind the other player ready to punish if they roll that way. The other player than just has to worry about them rolling forward (easily punished with another grab or smash) or them getting up in place (just shieldgrab them)
And with Snake and his awesome stage control. you could probably eliminate even more of your opponents options (nades, C4, Dsmash.)
Watch the G&W boards combo vid to see what I mean. Theres this double G&W tech chase at that end where the second one charges an Usmash behind the other while the other kept regrabbing the other. When they reached the end of the stage, it ended with an Usmash doing more than 80% I believe in total.

 

[cutter]

Even if they do tech G&W's Dthrow you can still techchase someone. All your teammate has to do is charge a smash next to you to cut off a techroll leaving you with two options; tech in place and tech in the other direction (and the majority of the time players won't tech in place).

 

[Irsic]

Even if they do tech G&W's Dthrow you can still techchase someone. All your teammate has to do is charge a smash next to you to cut off a techroll leaving you with two options; tech in place and tech in the other direction (and the majority of the time players won't tech in place).

<_<

If those were my options I would tech in place.

 

[Bellioes]

But yeah, it seems really effective to me (I would love to see a Snake and G&W team up and do a 2V1 tech chase on someone. That would be seriously awesome ).

 

[Sosuke]

Or you could just not tech and wait a second and get up. >_>

 

[Eddie G]

~KBizzle

I take doubles just as seriously. I believe it is a good way to distinguish between those with a good spread-out awareness in both singles and doubles from those who focus in a more linear fashion (a.k.a. singles only).

As for possible character mixtures, I believe in two solid mixes, one of which has actually been used by Edrees and Champ that resulted in some solid placements here and there. Those mixtures are Pikachu/Sheik and Peach/Fox.

Pikachu and Sheik can both gimp very well off of the stage, and when one of those characters applies that off-stage pressure, the other (if not busy with combat at that particular moment) can either take the edge or remain on-stage and edgeguard accordingly. Either character can be in either position due to both of their projectiles having a similar trajectory. It's all up to circumstance and the team's preference on what they decide to incorporate though.

As for Peach/Fox...I believe Edrees can give a better explanation on the matter. His experience with the combination counts for much more than my simple belief of its effectiveness.​

~Midwest Represent!​

 

[Bellioes]

Or you could just not tech and wait a second and get up. >_>

Which is easily punished with shield grabbing
Plus if its a Snake and you have a mine\C4 waiting on one side and your partner on the other, its pretty easy to just sit there with your shield while your partner punishes either roll with the C4 or another grab if they roll towards him.

 

[Sosuke]

So what your saying is:

-That if A snake puts a CF somewhere
-and grabs you at a certain place
-while his partner has enough time to realize this and charge a smash attack
there's nothing you can do.

This would only work with a 2 V 1, no?
In which case you can just grab release to grab repetitively instead.

I'm saying you can just stay there, and not get up for a second. If the snake does something, you'll have enough time to react.
He can nothing OoS that he can do.
-Usmash? No.
-Grab? You're too low to get grabbed.

By the time he drops his shield, you can react appropriately.

All you really have to do is wait for the Snake to get impatient or the partners smash attack to finish charging and roll towards him when he uses it.


@_@

 

[Bellioes]

No Your partner shouldnt be charging a smash its too predictable. They should just be waiting there to grab or detonate the C4. The grabber can just wait and shield once he sees the character attempt to get up. If the didnt roll you grab(you sortve have to be fast if they dont getup attack). I know you cant grab someone when theyre on the ground too. Im saying shield when they getup.
Also, Im not saying its perfect cause it ends once they roll towards the C4\mine, it just looks awesome.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

<_<

If those were my options I would tech in place.

But if you're at the edge so your options are roll back or stay in place, you're screwed.

*Tries to stimulate discussion other then silly 2v1 situations which only come into play when you've already pretty much won except in the rarest of circumstances*

Anyway I hate how Doubles Discussions always turn into G&W discussions with a sprinkle of 2v1 inescapable setups. He's undoubtedly the best or at least one of in Doubles but who wlese is well suited for it? What do you guys use? I actually play a lot of Doubles. We've had some good success with the following. First character always being my friend, second character always being myself. As for G&W inescapable 2 v1 setups? Grr.

Game and Watch and R.O.B
Link and Jigglypuff
Link and Pikachu
Link and Sheik
Samus and Fox
Samus and Pokemon Trainer
Samus and Zero Suit Samus
Donkey Kong and Diddy Kong
Kirby and Diddy Kong
Lucario and Pokemon Trainer
Snake and Zero Suit Samus
Yoshi and Pit

A few things I noticed when playing was.

1 of the 2 characters needs to have relative ease killing. In Doubles lack of good kill moves is less of a problem as your partner can help you out but when both of you have troubles killing it can be a nightmare.

Recovery. It's not the be all and end all but it is important. Being a character with a bad recovery can be less of a problem in doubles then singles your partner is there to help you. But two bad recoveries is a nightmare. We always like to have at least one character with a great/above average recovery in the team or at least one who doesn't need the ledge to recover. Also things like being able to shine stall as Fox, Bomb Stall as Samus, Charge Diddy's rocket barrels etc to let your partner recover safely while you wait can be helpful.

Anyone else got any not obvious at first but good combinations they swear by?

Also I need a partner for Sonic. I can't seem to get down who I like playing him with...

 

[Sosuke]

So there's 2 Snakes?

It still weird imo. I don't see it happening.

 

[Bellioes]

Well the grabber could be G&W and yeah I didnt say it was useful or gamebreaking, it would just look cool. So yeah

 

[Plum]

G&W teamed with a Wario.

Two best team characters IMO.

G&W really does not need a bucket gimmick to excel in teams; his true traits are his already great game,
amazing ability to save his teammate, unload insane punishment with a teammate's grab, and he compliments basically any character's strong points.

Wario looses any weak point he has in singles, like grab releases, which allows him to dominate. And Wario is a POWER house when those shenanigans are taken out of the picture. He has great survivability with his weight, bike braking, aerial mobility, and nice recovery. He can float in and out of opponents attacks, while also being able to float in and out of his teammate's path.

I love this combo... The air is DOMINATED by them and forces ground play. Each character has a solid ground game as well which can easily force the other team into the air. And they have a lot of great stuff in a 2v1 situation too, like Wario Dthrowing into G&W's smash of choice. And Wario will basically not die... My friend's Wario generally gets to like 200-250% before dieing because of G&W's Uair just stops him when he goes flying; I get up to 150 or more most of the time with bucket braking.

G&W and ZSS is great with the free buckets but if you can keep them apart (which certain teams are very capable of) then there goes that strategy. With the bucket fun gone it ZSS just doesn't shine as well as Wario.

 

[Sky`]

Cultivate your hunger before you Idealise

ROB is a wonderful assist character.

As I was dying on Smashville, My ROB buddy went down, and lazered me really quick so I can get that free up-B one more time, and I made it back. :3

Not to mention that he's like one of the best campers in the game, if not THE best, so... He's just a great team partner.

But I think that the best team partner would have to go to GaW, and I'm not just being Baised.

Anybody disagree?​

Motivate your anger, and make them all realise...
​

​

 

[Samuelson]

I think DDD, G&W and MK are best in teams. Snake and ROB are really good also.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

As I was dying on Smashville, My ROB buddy went down, and lazered me really quick so I can get that free up-B one more time, and I made it back. :3

I always just like to let them footstool me, while I'm in my Up B. But Laser works while I'm too far away to help.

But I think that the best team partner would have to go to GaW, and I'm not just being Baised

Hehehe. Typos that are cake related are the best kind.

I love R.O.B and Game and Watch team...

 

[B!squick]

Bowser good for teams? Firebreath can be brutal when used right.

 

[Light_13]

If life stealing is on, then that one player that got ***** can take lives from the player not being *****. Teaming on one person for a bit is still a good strategy.

Usually when this happens the opposing character has at the most two-stock and in killing%. Subtract one stock and wa-la! Kill one then continue womboeing lmao!


We also only use this when there is a gimpable character or light char to make things quicker and easier.

Our teams= Falco&Pika/Snake&Diddy

They are our mains with well planned fighting tactics.

 

[Gindler]

G&W teamed with a Wario.

Two best team characters IMO.

G&W really does not need a bucket gimmick to excel in teams; his true traits are his already great game,
amazing ability to save his teammate, unload insane punishment with a teammate's grab, and he compliments basically any character's strong points.

Wario looses any weak point he has in singles, like grab releases, which allows him to dominate. And Wario is a POWER house when those shenanigans are taken out of the picture. He has great survivability with his weight, bike braking, aerial mobility, and nice recovery. He can float in and out of opponents attacks, while also being able to float in and out of his teammate's path.

I love this combo... The air is DOMINATED by them and forces ground play. Each character has a solid ground game as well which can easily force the other team into the air. And they have a lot of great stuff in a 2v1 situation too, like Wario Dthrowing into G&W's smash of choice. And Wario will basically not die... My friend's Wario generally gets to like 200-250% before dieing because of G&W's Uair just stops him when he goes flying; I get up to 150 or more most of the time with bucket braking.

G&W and ZSS is great with the free buckets but if you can keep them apart (which certain teams are very capable of) then there goes that strategy. With the bucket fun gone it ZSS just doesn't shine as well as Wario.

200%!? Good luck breaking snakes Utilt you'd have to be above snake to do that (and not getting attacked by one of the two opponents) I just assume Uair breaking doesn't work on vertical kills (I use fox in doubles sometimes and that Usmash is just too good). Ness is pretty good in teams since he can rack up damage and that Bthrow prevents people from living too high (kills Gdub at like 90 usually)

I think DDD, G&W and MK are best in teams. Snake and ROB are really good also.

From what I've seen, once D3 is put in the air he's easily cluster ****ed (that's always what me and my teammate do when faced with a D3), I just think ROBs better in teams than D3, snake needs to watch his nades but other than that he's amazing. I like ness too, great aerials, a Bthrow that's just ridiuclous, a spike that kills at zero, and pkt2 is great when you're teammate can chuck someone into it.

I just personally go either yoshi, ness, ROB, or fox in teams depending on how I'm feeling

 

[PK-ow!]

ZSS dsmash is simply a perfect bucket attack. It fills the bucket for a one hit KO faster than anything else and it is important to acknowledge how devastating a 1HKO is. I often underplay it but it will always change the dynamic of a game.

Dsmash fills the bucket?!?!

Then why can't NEss absorb it?!!! DDDD:


I'd like to say I think a crucial factor of a successful team is that the characters don't have the same operating range. One works close, the other works... not close. Or one is passive-aggressive, the other is no-guard aggro.

It's something I came up with speculatively, but if I take lists such as, XiahouDun's seriously, I get some corroborating evidence.

The motivation is that, you don't want characters competing for the same space. You don't want to have to hold back from climbing on top of each other to do your best against one target. If the character's have different positions for themselves to go to, then this is all fine. But clobberers end up running into each other, and long-range fighters can't operate in the same place, usually.

An interesting case is mid-range fighters... if they have distinct aggression patterns, they can weave at varying ranges.

I believe I can explain away Snake due to the traps being its own category, but double MK... I may just have to bite the bullet and call "OMGH4X" on his power level.

 

[Xiahou Dun]

I'd like to say I think a crucial factor of a successful team is that the characters don't have the same operating range. One works close, the other works... not close. Or one is passive-aggressive, the other is no-guard aggro.

It's something I came up with speculatively, but if I take lists such as, XiahouDun's seriously, I get some corroborating evidence.

The motivation is that, you don't want characters competing for the same space. You don't want to have to hold back from climbing on top of each other to do your best against one target. If the character's have different positions for themselves to go to, then this is all fine. But clobberers end up running into each other, and long-range fighters can't operate in the same place, usually.

We found this out as well. Two close range fighters aren't too much of a problem as you can try to seperate the other team pitching in to help each other from time to time but not always being too close to each other, but it does add a little bit of extra hassle. Two long range fighters really doesn't work at all, you can't both be in the same place and both be out of the way. One thing especially we do is to have a designated "Edge Guarder" if you both jump off at the same time you can often end up gimping each other more then the enemy. By all means if your partner's busy or too far away you shouldn't just let them recover but if you're both there only one of you should go after a recovering opponent.

Alternativelt to a mix of close range long range characters you could try a primarily aerial and primarily grounded character mix.

 

[luke_atyeo]

mario and luigi are a very solid team, they work together well and compliment each other, luigi is good at early kills and mario is king of gimping which works out nicelly against the whole cast and they can do quick 2v1 combos even when its still 2 on 2 like for instance mario grabs and luigi quickly does a fjp.

solid team, works well and I have used it to win a doubles tourney.

 

[Bellioes]

Yeah but I heard that most Luigis use Mario in some matchups and Luigis in the other
They say theyre very similar except for like their specials being more effective in one matchup then another (marios cape in the spacies matchup for example)
But I dont know... putting both together sounds weird but effective to me

 

[ChiefOnionSauce]

Me and a friend tried double DDD's at a smashfest, and it was extremely fun. iInfinite chain grab, army of waddle-dees and doos (each DDD can throw eachothers waddles). Also have one DDD swallow another, then spit it out as a projectile. It's really strong. KO'd some snakes and ROBs with that spit. Powerful.

And people got really annoyed when it was down to just one opponent and we'd do chaingrab or just grab > fsmash. Controllers went flying in frustration.

But it's fun more than anything else.

 

[B!squick]

Me and a friend tried double DDD's at a smashfest, and it was extremely fun. iInfinite chain grab, army of waddle-dees and doos (each DDD can throw eachothers waddles). Also have one DDD swallow another, then spit it out as a projectile. It's really strong. KO'd some snakes and ROBs with that spit. Powerful.

And people got really annoyed when it was down to just one opponent and we'd do chaingrab or just grab > fsmash. Controllers went flying in frustration.

But it's fun more than anything else.

Doesn't sound like it was fun for them, lol.

 

[ChiefOnionSauce]

Doesn't sound like it was fun for them, lol.

exactly!!

and your pic is win.

 

[Ukemi]

Hmm....2 DDDs sounds much more interesting than I imagined.

So instead of talking about 2v1 strategies, how about talking about how to get to that 2v1 scenario...

From my casual experience, taking out the weaker player is always good. You don't want to face more of the stronger player.

Wait what? I'll explain. When you take out the weaker player first, the weaker player will be forced to steal a stock to avoid the 2v1 situation. In a 3 stock match, that might mean facing 4 stocks of the weaker player and 2 stocks of the stronger player. But if you take out the stronger player first and then let them steal a stock from their partner, you'll be facing 4 stocks of the stronger player and 2 stocks of the weaker. And leaving the stronger player in the 2v1 scenario should not be a problem. If your team knows what you're doing, the odds should be too much for the poor guy going solo.

And on the flip side, anyone know any good 2v1 counters? (paradox?)

 

[ChiefOnionSauce]

Good point ukemi.

I have an example that demonstrates this.

Same friend I played with also mains cfalcon, so we did a cfalcon/zss vs GAW/ROB match. I was first to die, but my friend stayed alive FOREVER. He was dodging gyro's, lasers, bacon, everything. AND the matchup was 1 stock vs 2 of each opponent. He was able to get each down 1 stock and get ROB above 100% before he lost. Almost looked like that mango/lucky vs ken/isai match.

It was epic.

If it was me left, I would've just walked off stage.

 

[Tennet]

What do you guys think about Snake and Mario??

 

[luke_atyeo]

What do you guys think about Snake and Mario??

works very well, I play snake and luigi so when we weren't going the brothers we went this and its good because mario's aggressive style can really get in everyone's face when means snake has plenty of time to line up those devastating hits

 

[Light_13]

Hmm....2 DDDs sounds much more interesting than I imagined.

So instead of talking about 2v1 strategies, how about talking about how to get to that 2v1 scenario...

From my casual experience, taking out the weaker player is always good. You don't want to face more of the stronger player.

Wait what? I'll explain. When you take out the weaker player first, the weaker player will be forced to steal a stock to avoid the 2v1 situation. In a 3 stock match, that might mean facing 4 stocks of the weaker player and 2 stocks of the stronger player. But if you take out the stronger player first and then let them steal a stock from their partner, you'll be facing 4 stocks of the stronger player and 2 stocks of the weaker. And leaving the stronger player in the 2v1 scenario should not be a problem. If your team knows what you're doing, the odds should be too much for the poor guy going solo.

And on the flip side, anyone know any good 2v1 counters? (paradox?)

^this

(could have sworn I said.....nvm)