Double Retreating Fair

[Zilby]

So I'm just recently trying out Marth as a new main and am having a lot of difficulty with double retreating fair (ie: run one direction, jump while facing the same direction but moving the opposite, fair and then fair again before hitting the ground). I can get the jump and the fair out of a dash dance but I can't get the second fair before hitting the ground. Normally I use x or the control stick to short-hop, but since I have to use the control stick to get the retreating jump I'm forced into using buttons for the jump (otherwise I'd just use the control stick to short-hop, in which context I can always get the double fair, or fair -> waveland since it's not retreating). I have managed to get this working when dashing to the left since it's one motion to go from x to a left fair, but when moving to the right I'm completely stumped because getting two motions down in that number of frames seems impossible.

So.. yeah. Has anyone managed to do this without a claw grip? I really don't want to develop an entirely different grip just for one tech..

 

[ChivalRuse]

Non-claw method: during Marth's jumpsquat, release X or Y, then position your thumb over the c-stick and input a fair as soon as possible using the c-stick. The key is to position your thumb very quickly after jumping with X/Y.

 

[DCW]

I have managed to get this working when dashing to the left since it's one motion to go from x to a left fair, but when moving to the right I'm completely stumped because getting two motions down in that number of frames seems impossible.

Yeah, double fair facing right is much easier than double fair facing left. You're not the only person to have this problem. Unfortunately, there's not a good shortcut around the problem, because if you use the A button instead of the C-stick you won't get the full fade-back due to having to press forward with the control stick for at least a frame. You just have to practice C-stick for a long time until it becomes easier. For me, after several months the muscle memory started to develop and it wasn't as hard. It will always be a tight timing, but with training it becomes doable on command. Be patient and you'll get there.

 

[Stride]

You wouldn't be learning it just for one tech. Claw grip is useful in a lot of situations, those being any time you have to use an aerial very quickly after jumping: instant up air (mostly when comboing off up throw), fair from the ledge, shield drop double-jump aerial, fair to double-jump fair, etc.

You don't have to use claw all the time; I temporarily switch to it when I need it. You can also claw by using the side of your finger on the X button (which again is what I do).

 

[CP Adagio]

When I do double retreating fair facing left I use the bottom of my palm underneath my thumb to hit the first c-stick fair. It's instant and makes backwards double fair facing right look like the hardest tech in the world

 

[HoDANG]

Do this :
https://smashboards.com/threads/hand-positioning-and-technique-development-thread.441902/
Makes it 10x easier to do rightwards facing double fairs.
Also you will save yourself from hand pain / tiring.

 

[iAmMatt]

Non-claw method: during Marth's jumpsquat, release X or Y, then position your thumb over the c-stick and input a fair as soon as possible using the c-stick. The key is to position your thumb very quickly after jumping with X/Y.

Elaborating on this method, I position my right hand over y, and immediately fair using the meaty part of my hand below the thumb (don't know what its called). Depending on which way you're facing, you will either need to push forward on the c-stick or pull back.

 

[HoDANG]

Non-claw method: during Marth's jumpsquat, release X or Y, then position your thumb over the c-stick and input a fair as soon as possible using the c-stick. The key is to position your thumb very quickly after jumping with X/Y.

Elaborating on this method, I position my right hand over y, and immediately fair using the meaty part of my hand below the thumb (don't know what its called). Depending on which way you're facing, you will either need to push forward on the c-stick or pull back.

Yes ^^ this is the same method that the thread I posted discusses.

 

[HoDANG]

-snip--snip--snip-

 

[Kyomaku]

Regarding that method, I only tried it for a short time, but it seems like the c-stick always pressured my nerve when I try to do it that way. I've kinda small hands, maybe that just changes the point the c-stick touches for me if I try it, so I couldn't really use that.

I managed to get consistent with double fairs on both sides with the normal grip, so I don't really need it. Yet I'm concerned about my hands health. I remember that while I practiced, the movement felt kinda tense, the y-c-stick movement is really fast, but not anymore, it's started to feel pretty easy/natural, not tiring me out atm. I also wanted to try claw, but I can't shorthop at all with a claw grip, it's way too hard. Maybe my hand is just too weak? Feels very difficult to push the y button down with my index finger (a lot of force), making it even more difficult to let go of it in time for the shorthop.

I've always consciously been practicing rising aerials, but what I think also helped was practicing multishining as falco. It's a similar motion, but a shorter range, key being to let go of y as fast as possible, which is the same for rising aerials.