Does Rosalina need a buff?

Perfect patricia

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#1
Now I’m not the most experienced player out there, but after playing her for a while she feels so underwhelming compared to smash 4. Up air was severely nerfed, Luma dies to quick after one gust of wind, and she has little killing power, and lots of Rosa mains dropped her because she feels clunky in this game. Why are your thoughts?
 

Cosmic77

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#2
She isn't bad, but I feel like they nerfed her to the point to where there's barely a future for her competitively. I know they were pushing for more detethered play, but there's barely a point in it. Luma dies so easily in Smash 4, and Ultimate kinda made it worse.

Above everything, she needs more KO potential.
 
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#4
Yes, I think she does. Either make Luma controllable again when she is launched or grabbed (by the way I would do this for :ulticeclimbers: as well) or have that Luma inch forward with each neutral jab Rosa does. In other words, get back something that was taken from her exiting Smash 4.

Thus I am here this afternoon saying let us :ultrosalina: players here pray that update patches will rescue her.

Sayonara :kirby:
 

ChikoLad

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#5
Yes but probably more importantly, she needs bug fixes first and foremost. Half of the reason she is going to be bad in this game going forward is because her deceptively short range and buggy hitboxes make an already mediocre fighter feel inconsistent. Even if you dedicate all your time to her and master this game's fundamental mechanics and master all of Rosalina's unique tricks, you will be prone to those janky hitboxes that prevent you from having any sort of consistency.

She reminds me a lot of the Melee low tiers, who had the same issues, though more intense in their case.

I reckon if she stays the way she is, Rosalina will be bottom 3 on usage charts. She already had uncharacteristicly low usage for a powerful top 5 character in Smash Wii U, but in her current state, many people (myself included, though to be fair I'm not that interested in this game in general right now) have little reason to play her competitively when there are much more effective and fun options in the game. She doesn't feel very satisfying and lost a lot of what made her work.
 

EGsmash

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#6
I agree. She was one of my top 3 characters in Smash 4 and now I can barely stand playing her. It's not like she got any major changes, but she got a ton of tiny alterations that when taken together really made her a weaker character.

As stated above, the jabs not advancing Luma really weaken her potential. That was one of the main spacing tools for Luma - You could use Luma as a projectile sponge, or keep other characters just out of reach. Now your only options are to have Luma right next to you where you both get hit, or at medium distance where the opponent can weave in between you. Nair is different but slightly worse since you can't hit short grounded characters anymore, and the lingering floaty hitbox was a great way to catch opponents unshielding or to catch floaty characters above you. Dair doesn't spike as well, and Uair is weaker.
Luma's Uptilt Staryuken doesn't kill like it used to.

Giving Luma a boost in power while detethered does make some sense, but not at the expense of a damage nerf when tethered, especially since it's so easy to kill Luma. And yeah, there are some frame-perfect shenanigans you can do, but those are unreliable in online play and only a handful of people will be able to reliably pull off those kinds of gimmicks.
 

MG_3989

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#10
I really hope Rosalina needs this patch. It also needs a buff badly for the people who mained her including myself to fix this issues with her moveset.
It’s something that REALLY should happen in the next patch and I’m saying that as a Ness main who definitely doesn’t want to see Rosalina viable in tournament play again. They completely killed the character
 
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#12
It’s something that REALLY should happen in the next patch and I’m saying that as a Ness main who definitely doesn’t want to see Rosalina viable in tournament play again. They completely killed the character
Absolutely, I mean I wanna main her in Ultimate. But this is not gonna worth it that much. Because they nerfed her so much that I always been inconsistent with her. That's why top Rosalina players (i.e. Dabuz) suggested that she doesn't worth it as a viable character for now (since I watched Galaxy FAQ).
 

WhiteMageBD

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#13
I agree that she needs a buff even though I am one of the few that actually still gets ok results with her in local tournaments. 9th place 3 times lol. I was making top 8 every time with her in smash 4 and the nerfs had did this to my overall worse results lol. Tbf they were big locals, first one had 96 people, so yay!! I don't think she's awful though, but not good either. A mid tier imo.
 
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Tizio Random

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#14
It’s something that REALLY should happen in the next patch and I’m saying that as a Ness main who definitely doesn’t want to see Rosalina viable in tournament play again. They completely killed the character
I don't wanna be that guy but with the way she was nerfed, even with buffs in the future, I highly doubt the Rosa-Ness match up will be nearly as bad as Smash 4. Gravitational Pull was nerfed making it way harder to absorb PK Thunder for free and no jab walling means Ness has a waaaay easier time to deal with her in neutral. Both of these I really really doubt will be restored to Smash 4's incarnations. Also, Ness has a dsmash that is literally the freest edgeguard tool against Rosa's upb and it's even easier to do than GP.

That said, she just needs two crucial buffs (+ some bugfixes):
  • Luma needs to be more resistant to knockback, he's way too easy to dispose as of now, should at the very least be as sturdy as Smash 4
  • She needs more safe kill options, either buff bair, upair, ftilt, dsmash, whatever or give her a kill confirm of sort
  • Bugfixes: dash attack not always connecting, dtilt bonk and Luma's downb FAF
Once these are solved, I think she would be in a good spot. The first one is very warranted and should done asap, in my opinion.
 
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WhiteMageBD

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#15
I don't wanna be that guy but with the way she was nerfed, even with buffs in the future, I highly doubt the Rosa-Ness match up will be nearly as bad as Smash 4. Gravitational Pull was nerfed making it way harder to absorb PK Thunder for free and no jab walling means Ness has a waaaay easier time to deal with her in neutral. Both of these I really really doubt will be restored to Smash 4's incarnations. Also, Ness has a dsmash that is literally the freest edgeguard tool against Rosa's upb and it's even easier to do than GP.

That said, she just needs two crucial buffs (+ some bugfixes):
  • Luma needs to be more resistant to knockback, he's way too easy to dispose as of now, should at the very least be as sturdy as Smash 4
  • She needs more safe kill options, either buff bair, upair, ftilt, dsmash, whatever or give her a kill confirm of sort
  • Bugfixes: dash attack not always connecting, dtilt bonk and Luma's downb FAF
Once these are solved, I think she would be in a good spot. The first one is very warranted and should done asap, in my opinion.
Her killing options are fine, just edge guard the opponent or juggle them to oblivion. Even jab kills at the ledge lol. I do agree luma needs a resistance buff. Also buff nair's range, it's sad that even young link's nair can stuff Rosas nair out...
 
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Tizio Random

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#16
Her killing options are fine, just edge guard the opponent or juggle them to oblivion. Even jab kills at the ledge lol. I do agree luma needs a resistance buff. Also buff nair's range, it's sad that even young link's nair can stuff Rosas nair out...
Eh... in a game where ftilts kill you at 90% at the ledge, Rosa lacks safe kill options (rapid jab in very nice, though, I admit that). There's no reason for some moves to be so weak in this game, it's not rare to have the opponent surviving forever against her, unfortunately.
Still, that's the second thing, Luma being sturdier needs to happen.
 

WhiteMageBD

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#17
Eh... in a game where ftilts kill you at 90% at the ledge, Rosa lacks safe kill options (rapid jab in very nice, though, I admit that). There's no reason for some moves to be so weak in this game, it's not rare to have the opponent surviving forever against her, unfortunately.
Still, that's the second thing, Luma being sturdier needs to happen.
It pays off to still kill people at 60 offstage or 2 frame them. Recoveries across the board are worse now, so there should be no reason not to gimp them. They can't airdodge for free anymore.
 
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ChikoLad

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#18
Our prayers have been answered. Sort of.

https://en-americas-support.nintendo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/43317

2019130_15233796.jpg


Seems like they didn't touch Luma controls and knockback resistance at all. But Rosalina herself got buffed all around. And they fixed the dash attack (according to this at least, will need to put it to practice to see by how much).

It's not 100% of where I want her to be but it's a step in the right direction. This echoes what happened with Marth in Smash Wii U/3DS.
 
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MG_3989

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#19
I don't wanna be that guy but with the way she was nerfed, even with buffs in the future, I highly doubt the Rosa-Ness match up will be nearly as bad as Smash 4. Gravitational Pull was nerfed making it way harder to absorb PK Thunder for free and no jab walling means Ness has a waaaay easier time to deal with her in neutral. Both of these I really really doubt will be restored to Smash 4's incarnations. Also, Ness has a dsmash that is literally the freest edgeguard tool against Rosa's upb and it's even easier to do than GP.

That said, she just needs two crucial buffs (+ some bugfixes):
  • Luma needs to be more resistant to knockback, he's way too easy to dispose as of now, should at the very least be as sturdy as Smash 4
  • She needs more safe kill options, either buff bair, upair, ftilt, dsmash, whatever or give her a kill confirm of sort
  • Bugfixes: dash attack not always connecting, dtilt bonk and Luma's downb FAF
Once these are solved, I think she would be in a good spot. The first one is very warranted and should done asap, in my opinion.
I highly doubt that too. This is a different game. I’m happy you guys at least got something this patch
 

EGsmash

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#20
I posted this in the general discussion forum, but I wanted to point out that you can now properly space Luma when tethered by jabbing. Dtilt works too.

Dtilt is amazing now. Not only does it space Luma, but Luma hits farther out from Rosa. This is a great edge poke tool and super safe.

Her Dair also does meteor much earlier, making it far more reliable.

Luma's tethered Utilt Staryuken kills Fox at 150% on Battlefield with no DI. Untethered or platformed kills lower

SH Nair still won't hit small guys like Pichu, but the hitbox covers more of Rosa and it stays out much longer. It combos into itself or other attacks much better now. The hitbox even covers Rosa's feet, making it a great move to fast fall.

Sending out and recalling Luma now has incredibly little endlag comparatively speaking. You can now short hop, cast out Luma, and land with an attack, all in one jump. Try approaching a grounded opponent by short hopping, hitting neutral B, fall with Nair, then jab. Luma will start jabbing as he falls onto your opponent from the other side. It's really fun, and super easy to pull off.

Rosalina is a beast now. This was a really, REALLY good patch for her.


Edit: Labbing it out just now, it appears that you can get Luma's hitbox out to about 3 meters with jabs (roughly 3 character lengths) away from Rosalina before Luma rubber-bands back. With Dtilt from the same starting position it's about 4 meters total. Dtilt does space Luma slightly quicker than just jabs, so if you need to space quickly try to throw out 2-3 Dtilts instead of 3-4 sets of jabs.
 
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Tizio Random

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#21

Cosmic77

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#22

WhiteMageBD

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#24
Eh Idc what people think of Rosa. After weeks of practice, I finally cracked open how to do her most advance tech from my smash corner consistently. I tried it on my friend and it was safe on shield lul.
 
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#25
Even though her old RAR is a lot more effective and making the most of the range that she has now over Luma. I agree, she still need some more buffs and also bugfixes too (especially the hitboxes and kill options for her if needed the most).
 

Lorisaur

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#26
She needs a bunch of buffs. Kill options, for example. I would buff Rosa downsmash, Rosalina's multijab kbg (it makes no sense that only luma kills) and maybe lower the angle of backthrow to make it more similar to fthrow. Upair is also lackluster, it should have less ending lag. Slightly. Fair instead has some weird hitboxes that don't make the opponent flinch and I can't really understand why. Last buff, Nair needs a better hitbox or more hitstun. It's even unsafe on hit at low%, it must act better as a combo starter as Rosalina does not have much else sadly

I still main her btw, she is not so bad (just a little)
 

NickLeo

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#27
She needs some buffs to be viable at the top level. I think it'd be awesome if they'd give her:
-Medium armor to Luma on neutral B + slightly faster charge time
-less endlag on side B and down B
-slightly more knockback on Uair, Fair, Bair, and Dsmash
-less knockback to Luma

Also, check out my first combo video that I put out recently
https://youtu.be/pDlDDoQbVEQ
 

Lorisaur

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#28
She needs some buffs to be viable at the top level. I think it'd be awesome if they'd give her:
-Medium armor to Luma on neutral B + slightly faster charge time
-less endlag on side B and down B
-slightly more knockback on Uair, Fair, Bair, and Dsmash
-less knockback to Luma

Also, check out my first combo video that I put out recently
https://youtu.be/pDlDDoQbVEQ
I liked it!!! I'll subscribe tomorrow!! Would you also like to have a match? I love seeing that someone still belives in rosalina
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#29
I know that I have yet to play the game, but based on the various threads I've visited, it feels like Rosalina has turned into a major disappointment. Okay, maybe not terrible to the point where she's being placed alongside Charizard, Little Mac, King K. Rool, or Mr. Game & Watch, but you know that something is not right when you're seeing Rosalina at the wrong end of the speculated tier lists.

Anyway, the best way to help Rosalina and her Luma would probably be to bring back most of the stuff that made them very good in Smash 3DS / Wii U, but even that may not be enough if Ultimate's physics are against them.

I would also being up mobility, since now, Bowser flat out outspeeds Rosalina at everything, except walking. How is it okay for someone like Palutena (another fighter who levitates while running) to run slightly faster than Yoshi, and yet Rosalina barely runs faster than Duck Hunt?
 

WhiteMageBD

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#30
She needs some buffs to be viable at the top level. I think it'd be awesome if they'd give her:
-Medium armor to Luma on neutral B + slightly faster charge time
-less endlag on side B and down B
-slightly more knockback on Uair, Fair, Bair, and Dsmash
-less knockback to Luma

Also, check out my first combo video that I put out recently
https://youtu.be/pDlDDoQbVEQ
Naw, I do agree with the up air kb buff, but those other moves don't need buffs. The main problem is luma dies way too easily like I said b4, people can kill it with no effort at all. Maybe buff nair's range or start up to.
 

$.A.F.

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#31
I know that I have yet to play the game, but based on the various threads I've visited, it feels like Rosalina has turned into a major disappointment. Okay, maybe not terrible to the point where she's being placed alongside Charizard, Little Mac, King K. Rool, or Mr. Game & Watch, but you know that something is not right when you're seeing Rosalina at the wrong end of the speculated tier lists.

Anyway, the best way to help Rosalina and her Luma would probably be to bring back most of the stuff that made them very good in Smash 3DS / Wii U, but even that may not be enough if Ultimate's physics are against them.

I would also being up mobility, since now, Bowser flat out outspeeds Rosalina at everything, except walking. How is it okay for someone like Palutena (another fighter who levitates while running) to run slightly faster than Yoshi, and yet Rosalina barely runs faster than Duck Hunt?
Why is game and watch in your bottom 5?
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#32
Why is game and watch in your bottom 5?
It's something that I've heard from DelugeFGC DelugeFGC , but this was before the Joker update got released. However, I don't have the game yet, so I can't say for certain if he's truly right about Mr. Game & Watch's poor viability.

G&W Got a new FAir, a bomb toss move. At first glance this might seem like a cool upgrade, but compared to the box flip FAir of old it's just abysmal. It has a ton of startup AND endlag, while it can kill (at high percents, keep in mind) any character with moderate speed can get out of the way even if right on top of it. It doesn't really combo or confirm well into anything from my labbing of him, either. On top of that, just the usual G&W problems. He has one of if not THE worst roll in the entire game, it feels like what some other characters have after 5-6+ rolls resulting in tons of frame lag being added to their roll due to how they work in Ult.. and that's how his roll feels fresh. Once it picks up ANY lag, it's almost painful to use and isn't ever a good idea.. it's EXTREMELY punishable.

Speaking of punishable stuff, everything about him just about is. His NAir (the fish bowl thing) has a decent hitbox but doesn't do the kind of damage nor have the kind of knockback to translate into anything. His BAir leaves him totally helpless in the event the move doesn't connect. His UAir is.. okay I suppose. DAir is probably his best aerial, which isn't saying much because I'm not a huge fan of moves that quickly snap you down to the ground like the DAir key slam does. He has no synergy to his kit at all, he feels extremely laggy and clunky.. he kind of reminds me of a worse melee G&W. Only now instead of a lack of L-Cancelled aerials or a messed up shield, it's other serious problems. I could go on for hours about how messed up Ult G&W feels. He used to be my go-to bad character, but now he's so crap I can't even use him as a joke.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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#35
A game and Watch almost won full bloom, beat Esam AND MVD, and only lost the tournament because of an SD.
So apparently, he's not as bad as I was told. I was a bit concerned after hearing that Ultimate Mr. Game & Watch was worse than his Smash 3DS / Wii U counterpart.
 

DelugeFGC

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#36
I didn't play enough Sm4sh to say if he's better or worse than he was there, but I still do feel he could be better. FAir is still a REAL funky move imo.
 
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#37
I think Rosalina is on the verge of being in a good state. I would say that the number one change she needs is a decrease in the amount of knockback that Luma takes, especially now that her HP’s been nerfed again. It’s just way too easy to send Luma to the Shadow Realm and cripple Rosalina.

Second, I would buff Luma’s jab so that it moves him forward like in Smash 4.

Last (this one’s not quite as important) is a better KO option of some kind. It’s a shame that they changed neutral air because the old one was so much better. Maybe a stronger back throw?
 
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