Does Project M hate Sonic?

[MasterWolf144]

Sonic was never really shown any love in Brawl. Project M could have fixed that, but instead they are trying to maintain his painful moveset. Sonic is a veteran now, so he should get treated as one. If they are not going to respect him, why even leave the Blue Blur in the game. I love Sonic and if all they are going to do is destroy him, I don't want him in the game anymore.

 

[Solharath]

Wait what no stop. Sonic is bad right now but he's getting better next patch.

Also dude there are like, no specifics here as to why he's considered with no respect. Examples please, so that I may more thoroughly disagree with you with points and counterpoints until you are nothing but a shell of your former self.

And from there you can be rebuilt.

 

[MasterWolf144]

Wait what no stop. Sonic is bad right now but he's getting better next patch.

Also dude there are like, no specifics here as to why he's considered with no respect. Examples please, so that I may more thoroughly disagree with you with points and counterpoints until you are nothing but a shell of your former self.

And from there you can be rebuilt.

If they really cared about making Sonic a better character they would not try to retain his play-style and moveset from brawl.

 

[Solharath]

Were you even around in 2.0/2.1/2.5 era Sonic? He was a rushdown beast that needed to be reigned in. I'll be first in line to say that the 2.6 changed were far too drastic, and at times I do say I wish he was merely pulled from the roster, but let's be real here. I'm glad for this version because what we have here is like a base form of Sonic, the moment in life where he just has a couple things about him that are interesting, but he doesn't have any top-tier tools to really set him apart. He's annoying, can tack on damage, but he's a bit Brawl right now.

They care about Sonic. Just look at the 2.1 and 2.5 writeups they've released about Sonic in the past. That is some straight up caring about a character and how they do and how they place. But there was outcry and Sonic was sandblasted until only the base remained, which is what we have now.

Sonic didn't work in Brawl for a number of reasons. No kill potential, no combo game, confusingly poor specials... but PM has them changed. You can jump cancel your Side-B into a grab or a slide kick. That's seriously new(although I have reservations about the new timer on Spin Maneuvers that I've taken up with the PMBR. They seemed receptive of my ideas). Sonic's new DSmash is great on ground that has lips(Yoshi's Island Brawl/Yoshi's Story/Lylat Cruise come to mind). Sonic new Fair? Too good. And that Utilt.... Mmmm!

Sonic is WIP and everything is subject to change. Not everything needs to be changed from Brawl. No other character has seen every move changed, after all. Tweaked, maybe. But Sonic's been tweaked, everywhere.

 

[cmart]

I've been working on Sonic for literally years now, pouring forth incredible amounts of effort into making him fun, interesting and unique. We've had a few misteps I'll admit, but we've never done anything that we didn't believe was for the good of the character. In short, no we don't hate Sonic, and if you think we do than I sincerely apologize on behalf of all of us for such a bumpy ride.

As far as retaining his brawl moveset goes, you have to remember that brawl players enjoyed Sonic too - it's not fair of us to write them completely off and change everything about the character. As with all things, you need to strike a balance of what you keep and what you change.

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.

 

[MasterWolf144]

I've been working on Sonic for literally years now, pouring forth incredible amounts of effort into making him fun, interesting and unique. We've had a few misteps I'll admit, but we've never done anything that we didn't believe was for the good of the character. In short, no we don't hate Sonic, and if you think we do than I sincerely apologize on behalf of all of us for such a bumpy ride.

As far as retaining his brawl moveset goes, you have to remember that brawl players enjoyed Sonic too - it's not fair of us to write them completely off and change everything about the character. As with all things, you need to strike a balance of what you keep and what you change.

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.[/quote

I've been working on Sonic for literally years now, pouring forth incredible amounts of effort into making him fun, interesting and unique. We've had a few misteps I'll admit, but we've never done anything that we didn't believe was for the good of the character. In short, no we don't hate Sonic, and if you think we do than I sincerely apologize on behalf of all of us for such a bumpy ride.

As far as retaining his brawl moveset goes, you have to remember that brawl players enjoyed Sonic too - it's not fair of us to write them completely off and change everything about the character. As with all things, you need to strike a balance of what you keep and what you change.

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.

I just am a diehard Sonic fan and I will admit, I did have fun with Sonic in Brawl, but I just want him to be more than a hit and run character.

 

[Bombitty]

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.

Can I just say that this one sentence has me just as hyped (if not more so) as any announcement there has been made regarding clones, costumes, or just 3.0 in general? Thank you very much.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

No kill potential, no combo game, confusingly poor specials...

This is still the case for 2.6 Sonic, I hope the last stream didn't show the changes we're getting, cause he looked no better than 2.6 Sonic

 

[Nazo]

Sonic has combos, lol. everything else is sadly true though.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

I've been working on Sonic for literally years now, pouring forth incredible amounts of effort into making him fun, interesting and unique. We've had a few misteps I'll admit, but we've never done anything that we didn't believe was for the good of the character. In short, no we don't hate Sonic, and if you think we do than I sincerely apologize on behalf of all of us for such a bumpy ride.

As far as retaining his brawl moveset goes, you have to remember that brawl players enjoyed Sonic too - it's not fair of us to write them completely off and change everything about the character. As with all things, you need to strike a balance of what you keep and what you change.

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.

What do you mean by that is he going to get an entirely new moveset or will you just give his down b waveland abilities and keep his other nerfs #Sonicftw

 

[Solharath]

He means that the way Sonic is now is going to be very similar of the way Sonic is going to be going forward.

Just, y'know, better.

 

[TheRedBird]

I've been working on Sonic for literally years now, pouring forth incredible amounts of effort into making him fun, interesting and unique. We've had a few misteps I'll admit, but we've never done anything that we didn't believe was for the good of the character. In short, no we don't hate Sonic, and if you think we do than I sincerely apologize on behalf of all of us for such a bumpy ride.

As far as retaining his brawl moveset goes, you have to remember that brawl players enjoyed Sonic too - it's not fair of us to write them completely off and change everything about the character. As with all things, you need to strike a balance of what you keep and what you change.

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.

So I literally just made an account to get in on this thread. Like others have said, this message has me just as excited as the new characters. I love playing Sonic and it's hard to deny his potential even if he doesn't have enough killing power at the moment. I believe that starting and stringing Sonic's roll to air combos are why I love the character, and I don't think his move-set needs any radical changes, just damage and stun tweaks.

Also, how awesome (if not too powerful) would it be if Sonic's special recovery could be angled on a limited axis, it would shake up the ledge game.

 

[FireBall Stars]

This is still the case for 2.6 Sonic, I hope the last stream didn't show the changes we're getting, cause he looked no better than 2.6 Sonic

The changes are subtle, but very effective, unless there's a great Sonic player on stream, you won't see any difference, and even if there is there are things you will only notice when playing.

In the end it makes big difference on how effective the character can be, without having to rely on a single, overpowered move.

 

[Solharath]

cmart's allowed me to admit that I had the chance to play a WIP Sonic for 3.0. I am, however, not allowed to speak about specifics. That said.

The changes are subtle, but very effective, unless there's a great Sonic player on stream, you won't see any difference, and even if there is there are things you will only notice when playing.

In the end it makes big difference on how effective the character can be, without having to rely on a single, overpowered move.

Basically this. And it's glorious.

 

[Burnsy]

Sonic has combos, lol. everything else is sadly true though.

Sonic has bad specials? Go play Captain Falcon, now there's a fast, good character who actually has bad specials (Side-b is debatable. Still, it's clear that Falcon's has massive downsides). Simply being able to homing attack to the stage from nearly any horizontal blast zone alone makes that special really good. It would be foolish to overlook how incredibly good his up-b is as well. Side-b is no joke, even considering the addition of the timer, I know this from playing you all the time.

Still glad to hear he's getting some changes because he probably needs it, but a few of his supposed weaknesses or disadvantages get way overblown.

 

[Nazo]

Sonic has bad specials? Go play Captain Falcon, now there's a fast, good character who actually has bad specials. Simply being able to homing attack to the stage from nearly any horizontal blast zone alone makes that special really good. It would be foolish to overlook how incredibly good his up-b is as well. Side-b is no joke, even considering the addition of the timer, I know this from playing you all the time.

Still glad to hear he's getting some changes because he probably needs it, but a few of his supposed weaknesses or disadvantages get way overblown.

Yea, I really didn't mean to include him having bad specials; I was just looking to make a quick and short response at the time. I was mostly referring to his lack of kill power lol. I love Sonic's specials, and I'm sure you know this from playing me as well.

 

[Solharath]

I was super excited to learn that Nazo and Burnsy played each other previously, but alas, all the video footage is 2.5b.

 

[Burnsy]

We play together all the time, but Zman has the recording setup and he has been pretty busy. Me and Nazo are a 15 minute drive from each other.

 

[Solharath]

Nazo so special happy. Small wonder why you seem so out of sorts whenever we play, Burnsy. We have severely differing Sonic strats.

 

[Bombitty]

Also, how awesome (if not too powerful) would it be if Sonic's special recovery could be angled on a limited axis, it would shake up the ledge game.

I would settle for being able to airdodge after attacking out of it again.

"Oh side-b isn't AS good for recovery anymore? Cool cool np at all. It was silly anyway"
"Oh and he lost invincibility frames on up-b? Eh, still no big loss"
"Ah and he can't wall jump after up-b? Well...I guess that only helped in very certain circumstances"
"Wait. What? No more Airdodge? But but but...Snake?"

Screw it. Lose the spring all together and make him have a tether recovery Chaotix style.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Simply being able to homing attack to the stage from nearly any horizontal blast zone alone makes that special really good.

That's just begging to get edgeguarded

I would settle for being able to airdodge after attacking out of it again.

"Oh side-b isn't AS good for recocery anymore? Cool cool np at all. It was silly anyway"
"Oh and he lost invincibility frames on up-b? Eh, still no big loss"
"Ah and he can't wall jump after up-b? Well...I guess that only helped in very certain circumstances"
"Wait. What? No more Airdodge? But but but...Snake?"

Screw it. Lose the spring all together and make him have a tether recovery Chaotix style.

All this, Sonic's recovery is pretty ***

 

[Mr.Pickle]

Well its not exactly ass, but its not exactly on par with some of the more ridiculous recoveries, what with all the wall jump nonsense and tethers. Having a normal recovery makes sonic way more legit in my eyes lol.

 

[Burnsy]

That's just begging to get edgeguarded



All this, Sonic's recovery is pretty ***

Most characters cant edgeguard Sonic when he is using blast attack repeatedly so far offstage that it'd be impossible to reach him without going out too far to make it back yourself.

Also lmao at Sonic having **** recovery. This isn't Brawl, the recovery he has currently is already better than most characters. He doesn't need a crazy recovery like some characters got. Try something else.

 

[Sanity's_Theif]

Most characters cant edgeguard Sonic when he is using blast attack repeatedly so far offstage that it'd be impossible to reach him without going out too far to make it back yourself.

Also lmao at Sonic having **** recovery. This isn't Brawl, the recovery he has currently is already better than most characters. He doesn't need a crazy recovery like some characters got. Try something else.

You said homing attack to the stage as a recovery option, I can tell you it's the easiest thing to edgeguard

I didn't say it was the worst, but it's certainly nowhere near the best

 

[Burnsy]

I meant to get back to the stage as a component of his recovery, not getting back to the stage using that move alone. If you can't possibly reach sonic without killing yourself, its not a great edgeguard/gimp option unless they are on their last stock and you are a stylish devil.

 

[Project SonicSpeed]

He means that the way Sonic is now is going to be very similar of the way Sonic is going to be going forward.

Just, y'know, better.

i still don't quite understand is he going to get some of his brawl moves back or im confused #Sonicftw

 

[shinhed-echi]

I think it says a lot when I quit Sonic in Project M, because he just doesn't feel the same. To the point I'm willing to give him a Knuckles/Metal Sonic/Shadow skin to dress up the fact that he's NOT the Sonic I worked so hard to become good with.

But I didn't go through with that because I just plain quit playing as him.

It's a real shame that I can't play as my favorite character in P:M because he works so drastically different.
(No super armor Usmash that racks up damage, no Side+B super armor I can combo from, the heavier gravity I can cope with because the whole game is a lot less floatier, but I still feel he's not the same character by any means).

Don't get me wrong, the new moveset is creative and all.... But that would've suited a Clone-engine character more, IMHO.

All he needed for me was more kill power... And to have certain useless attacks knock back more, or simply come out faster.
A rebalance if you will.

(Not to sound like a broken record, but although I loved what PMBR did to PT's Pokemon, the fact that I can't switch between them was also a deal-breaker, therefore, 2 mains out the window.
My 3rd main is Samus.. Guess I have to wait to see how that turns out, but I'm frankly worried)

 

[Tero.]

I've been working on Sonic for literally years now, pouring forth incredible amounts of effort into making him fun, interesting and unique. We've had a few misteps I'll admit, but we've never done anything that we didn't believe was for the good of the character. In short, no we don't hate Sonic, and if you think we do than I sincerely apologize on behalf of all of us for such a bumpy ride.

As far as retaining his brawl moveset goes, you have to remember that brawl players enjoyed Sonic too - it's not fair of us to write them completely off and change everything about the character. As with all things, you need to strike a balance of what you keep and what you change.

I do hope everyone hangs in there and gives Sonic a chance this winter - you've got some cool things to look forward to.

Well at least you guys realized that 2.6 Sonic is complete bull**** and like 50% of the players just dropped him after the 2.6 update.
I have hopes for 3.0 Sonic now.

 

[DMG]

Sethlon seems to prove that Sonic is still very decent and just isn't as dominating as before. He requires a massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly.

 

[Ariyo]

Sethlon seems to prove that Sonic is still very decent and just isn't as dominating as before. He requires a massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly.

Vids? I'm missing out on these things.

 

[DMG]

I only think there's one vid. We had a recording setup and a stream, but the stream dipped out during the heavy rainstorm so not much later on in the day was recorded there.

 

[EmptySky00]

Sonic was never really shown any love in Brawl. Project M could have fixed that, but instead they are trying to maintain his painful moveset. Sonic is a veteran now, so he should get treated as one. If they are not going to respect him, why even leave the Blue Blur in the game. I love Sonic and if all they are going to do is destroy him, I don't want him in the game anymore.

I'm laughing really hard right now. Stop being so melodramatic Jesus Christ. Acting like they amputated your mother's right arm.

 

[FourStar]

The only time people had a problem with sonic is when wizzy played him. And even then most people didn't seem to mind it that much. Wizzrobe is a very talented player and to destroy the character to the point of him being useless now, just because one guy was good with him is pretty ****ed up yo.

 

[turtletank]

Sonic was never really shown any love in Brawl. Project M could have fixed that, but instead they are trying to maintain his painful moveset. Sonic is a veteran now, so he should get treated as one. If they are not going to respect him, why even leave the Blue Blur in the game. I love Sonic and if all they are going to do is destroy him, I don't want him in the game anymore.

The poll needs a wtf option. Because that's how I feel after reading this post.

 

[DMG]

The only time people had a problem with sonic is when wizzy played him. And even then most people didn't seem to mind it that much. Wizzrobe is a very talented player and to destroy the character to the point of him being useless now, just because one guy was good with him is pretty ****ed up yo.

I get tired of this

"WIZZY ONLY GUY WITH SONIC, GG ONE GUY"

*Totally ignorant of Sethlon dominating offensively with the character*

Keep it up guys!

 

[EmptySky00]

The only time people had a problem with sonic is when wizzy played him. And even then most people didn't seem to mind it that much. Wizzrobe is a very talented player and to destroy the character to the point of him being useless now, just because one guy was good with him is pretty ****ed up yo.

If the character is over the top and degenerate, it doesn't matter whether one person dominates with him or 5,000. If it's a balance issue it should be addressed. Quality over quantity. You people could actually be almost happy he was nerfed too hard. In a way, it's just a promise for future buffs that could be really effing neat as the P:M team has a more clear and developed vision for the character. 6 months of video game hardship followed by Eden seems worth it (by the way, I played Brawl Link so gtfo crying about nerfed characters. And Ganondorf? I spill tears of brain matter for the atrocity).


PMBR is not going to be unjust to your character out of some ridiculous vendetta. And believing so because you got some nerfs in a DEMO version of the game is really self-righteous and narrow-minded.

 

[Wizzrobe]

Sethlon seems to prove that Sonic is still very decent and just isn't as dominating as before. He requires a massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly.

Nice proof, one video of his Sonic when all Sethlon has shown is him playing marth in 2.6.

and this quote


"Sethlon seems to prove that Sonic is still very decent and just isn't as dominating as before. He requires a massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly."

A massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly.. sounds like he's not that good lol, thats what your saying.

 

[Problem2]

The changes to all of Sonic's specials were justified, but I think they overdid it with nerfing f-smash and b-air. Opponent's of Sonic now commonly live to 160% or higher unless they are gimped. Sonic is not a character that racks up damage that quickly from one combo.

 

[FourStar]

I get tired of this

"WIZZY ONLY GUY WITH SONIC, GG ONE GUY"

*Totally ignorant of Sethlon dominating offensively with the character*

Keep it up guys!

ok...... but was sonic ever a problem without wizzrobe? All i was saying pretty much is that the PM team was too quick to judge with sonic and nerfed him a ton.
Was the nerfing necessary? Yes

Was is it necessary to the extent of how Sonic is now? No, not really

 

[DMG]

Nice proof, one video of his Sonic when all Sethlon has shown is him playing marth in 2.6


"Sethlon seems to prove that Sonic is still very decent and just isn't as dominating as before. He requires a massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly."

A massive amount of skill and timing to go in perfectly.. sounds like he's not that good lol, thats what your saying.

He played Marth for awhile, but he has gone back to Sonic in PM pretty recently so that he's not doing "Marth stuff" when Roy comes out (who he's gonna main). Last weekend didn't have a whole lot recorded I already went over that, I'm just telling you guys that I was there in person and he was doing pretty good. I think people have the wrong impression of how good/bad Sonic is right now. He's a lot closer to mid tier than a lot of people dumping him into bot 5 or something silly.