Q&A Doc General Discussion: Ask and ye shall receive ft. otg and Shroomed!

[Heart Break Kid]

Lol *****s. Dj lemme have my teal controller. I play so gay with it and that's what I need in certain matchups, I let nando borrow it long ago and I think you have it now. Bring it to no johns or something.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

So insightful.

IIRC, you're the guy who talked **** about Puff being easy if you know how to fight her. Then you tried to prove your point and got utterly stomped by Hbox when you challenged him first round.

I don't understand how people keep saying I got destroyed by him when the real match was the second one with my Doc. I had to go Fox first round or else he would've never agreed to fight me first round. I destroyed MYSELF first game with two SDs and then just gave him a free rest for laughs. I just wanted to fight him with Doc, which he told me himself he was scared of. Then the second game, I was ahead with two stocks to his one but choked like I usually do and he began to outplay me. So me barely losing the game isn't me getting utterly stomped. Puff is easy, its just Hbox is really good and a better player than me. He told me himself I'm the top 8 best players against Puff when I'm playing well.

Lol *****s. Dj lemme have my teal controller. I play so gay with it and that's what I need in certain matchups, I let nando borrow it long ago and I think you have it now. Bring it to no johns or something.

Aight son, I'll bring it.

 

[Max?]

I don't know how people can talk **** about DJ's performance vs. Hbox. It is true that HBox refused to play against DJ if DJ went Doc, so he had to go Fox game 1. It is also true (because you can watch the vids) when he went Doc that **** was tight as ****. I'd like to see you guys play in a tournament setting where it isn't set up First Round so you can play Doc all the way thru.

 

[Vyke]

Wait, you have to agree to fight people in tournament matches? I'm confused yo.

 

[Gea]

Sounds to me like they were seeding the bracket and asked Hbox if he minded being against DJ first round. And he said he was as long as no Doc and DJ agreed because he was too nice for his own good. If that's the case, that's pretty lame.

 

[ranmaru]

So guys. Samus talk time.

I was playing against a Samus, and half the time I forgot what to do against her.

I did learn to just back away alot against her. lol.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

This was the situation guys. I've been to mad tournaments where Hbox was at for years and somehow, we never end up fighting each other. I always wanted to fight him in tournament to see how I would do. So Alukard asked him if he didn't care fighting me first round since I never got to fight him in tournament before. I wanted to pretty bad just to get it outta my system, whether I won or lost. Hbox didn't wanna fight my Doc, but he still asked me what character I was gonna use. I said Fox. Even then, he still hesitated to fight me and thought about it for a bit. Finally, he just agreed to do it.

 

[ranmaru]

I don't understand how people keep saying I got destroyed by him when the real match was the second one with my Doc. I had to go Fox first round or else he would've never agreed to fight me first round. I destroyed MYSELF first game with two SDs and then just gave him a free rest for laughs. I just wanted to fight him with Doc, which he told me himself he was scared of. Then the second game, I was ahead with two stocks to his one but choked like I usually do and he began to outplay me. So me barely losing the game isn't me getting utterly stomped. Puff is easy, its just Hbox is really good and a better player than me. He told me himself I'm the top 8 best players against Puff when I'm playing well.



Aight son, I'll bring it.

Hmmm, I understand. I wondered what happened first match. : p Good stuff in the second match tho. I enjoyed the match.

 

[Shroomed]

Hbox plays for money which is why he didnt want to risk losing to a Doc and why his style is the way it is. I refuse to believe he's having fun playing the way he does.

All I need is a reliable way to land a fair and I'll take him out next time. I can rack the damage just as fast as he can, but eventually I get edgeguarded and I can't edgeguard him.

Lucien gave me some tips so we'll see next time. Lose to 1st and 2nd and get 7th. So cool. I wish I could've played KK or Javi.

Also I watched me vs KDJ again and I'm 80% sure it wasn't an SD and it was pill lag and FF that caused his death.

 

[DJ Nintendo]

You got this son! I believe in the kid.

 

[Seagull Joe]

How does :docmariomelee: kill...? I started playing melee more serious now and main and alt , , and .

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

grab dthrow fair

 

[Frisbie]

does anyone have any tips for the gannon matchup? i play this one gannon all the time and we would always go even, but his movement got a lot better, so now whenever he hits me once he's able to connect his broken *** moves a lot better. im working on limiting his movement with pills, but other than that, im having trouble with this matchup.

 

[ranmaru]

I try not to go in the air much against Ganon.

What moves are you talking about mostly? His fair? Be a little more specific.

If so, I'd bait his fair so I could go in and fair him or something safer.

If you jump and get faired, you are dead.

Again, I'd approach with caution, and mostly from the ground. Watch out for his Jab.

 

[Seagull Joe]

How do you have two icons below your name o_O?

 

[Frisbie]

yeah his fair gives me grief. also, one thing he'll do is bair as he's jumping and then he'll be able to bair as he's falling. also, pilling him is hard in this situation because he bairs through it everytime.

 

[ranmaru]

Double team.

 

[Frisbie]

and i have two doc icons because for some reason in my info it says i main doc in melee and in brawl, which doesnt really make sense

 

[ranmaru]

yeah his fair gives me grief. also, one thing he'll do is bair as he's jumping and then he'll be able to bair as he's falling. also, pilling him is hard in this situation because he bairs through it everytime.

Yeah you shouldn't rely on pills for every situation. If he bairs through the pill and hits you, this means you need to give yourself some more space so that he is commiting while you aren't there. Then you can move in and attack. (I would assume with jab, grab, or maybe an uair)

So adjust, pill from a safer distance, and move in when it is safe to do so. [Read: After he bairs so you can grab him]

 

[Frisbie]

yeah i normally dont pill a lot, but i have trouble approaching him when he does this so pilling just seemed like the most viable option. i guess i just need to work on my timing if i try to approach him. it's weird because it feels like a good matchup, but if i mess up, depending on where i am on the stage, ill lose a stock or get a lot of percent. it's a stressful matchup

 

[ranmaru]

Another idea I have. I like that you tried a strategy to prevent him from moving well, but keep in mind pills can be avoided.

You should improve your movement as well. Also I guess get better at DI at escaping his combos.

Just try to predict when he will do something, fake an action, move back, and then move in. The fair example is basically this. I move in, and move out and if he faired, I have time to come under and attack.

Get those grabs man.

 

[ranmaru]

Double post lol

 

[ranmaru]

One thing that really helps me, is watching vids of good players playing against a certain character.

I suggest you do that, to see what a good doc does to a good ganon.

 

[Frisbie]

yeah, i've noticed that grabs are very useful for both of us in this matchup. i do need to improve my movement and DI, which should help a lot. since he's a greedy gannon, baiting him shouldn't be too hard. and i've learned the hard way not to be near the edge against gannon. yeah ill have to look for some gannon vs doc videos, thanks for all the tips!

 

[ranmaru]

I think good tactics for improving your movement are:

dashdancing
wavedash back + ________ [insert action here]
wd forward + grab

Also keep this in mind. I like to Grab dthrow, and then jump and dair. That might be risky, but you should expirement if that works or not.

Haha no problem dude!

Always remember that once ganon is off stage, you can gimp him easily. So better to kill him side ways, with sidesmash etc.

 

[Frisbie]

yeah he says he doesnt like my dair, and i could mix up the down throw with different aerials, like if i think he's not going to jump and just DI out of i could fair, uair, grab again, etc. but if i think he's going to jump out of it, i think full hop dair or maybe a uair would be a good option.
i do wavedash back a lot, which helps my spacing tremendously, but i do need to dash dance and wavedash forward grab more. also, i need to work on wavedashing out of shield more too

 

[ranmaru]

Yeah if he doesn't di I would be careful. Maybe uair is better since it's quicker, to prevent getting daired by him.

K that's good. Just practice those in battle until you get it down.

 

[Frisbie]

yeah getting daired would be bad haha, uair sounds good. thanks again for all the help, hopefully i'll be able to play some this week and try this stuff out

 

[ranmaru]

Anytime. : P

 

[Shroomed]

Shield, wavedash in, and jab to whatever is amazing vs ganon assuming he isn't really in a position to jab you first.

 

[KirbyKaze]

Lucien gave me some tips so we'll see next time. Lose to 1st and 2nd and get 7th. So cool. I wish I could've played KK or Javi.

Your region seems really good vs Sheik. I think that would have been a good set. Lucien has trained you guys well.

 

[Frisbie]

Shield, wavedash in, and jab to whatever is amazing vs ganon assuming he isn't really in a position to jab you first.

i bet if i downsmashed immediately after i wavedashed in i would be under his grab and his jab range, assuming that he's in a position to do either. otherwise, combo time!

 

[VGmasta]

I really have an awful time approaching Ganon without taking hits, so I wavedash backwards or in place out of shield more often than toward Ganon. Gotta throw mixups so I'll jump out of shield and throw pills to get Ganon to jump around. Once he starts jumping around, that's when it's time get under him with to up-tilts and up-airs.

Shield, wavedash in, and jab to whatever is amazing vs ganon assuming he isn't really in a position to jab you first.

Shielding in front of Ganon is necessary. But wavedash toward Ganon out of shield is really risky.

Doc's best bet is to come out of shield with up-tilt. Up-tilt is beaten quite often by Ganon's d-air somehow, but a lot of times you can start some juggles if you can get an up-tilt under Ganon.

Doc wavedashing in to a jab is shut down by Ganon's f-tilt, retreating f-air, and d-air. A lot of Ganons I play see Doc put up a shield, and immediately laugh and wave attacks in front of Doc's shield.

 

[Gea]

I think Shroomed kinda meant to play it like after the Ganon does an aerial, get close and try to force a mistake out of it. Not to just approach like that. But I agree, it can be risky just because he can box doc out so well in general.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I agree with shroomed on this one, at least in the way that he uses them. Ganon has practically no escape from the jab even if he CCs due to his move's startup. The jab isn't meant to be a trading/winning move (like you are implying with utilt, ricky) but rather a poke/punishment move. Can't find a recent vid of shroomed vs a ganon, but heres one against a marth where he uses the same tactic against a faster/better walling character: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0RL0Ok6bek

 

[Gea]

Watching that reminded me of how goddamn much I love ftilt vs marth.

 

[VGmasta]

I agree with shroomed on this one, at least in the way that he uses them. Ganon has practically no escape from the jab even if he CCs due to his move's startup. The jab isn't meant to be a trading/winning move (like you are implying with utilt, ricky) but rather a poke/punishment move. Can't find a recent vid of shroomed vs a ganon, but heres one against a marth where he uses the same tactic against a faster/better walling character: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0RL0Ok6bek

I dunno man, Linguini crouchcancels EVERYTHING down here, especially Doc's jab.

And PewPew was playing that matchup really well in that first match. The only time I saw Shroomed get a jab to whatever punish is when he SPOTDODGED Marth's aerial and then jabbed.

If we are trying to use wavedash OoS to jab, Shroomed did catch Pew a few times for jabbing Shroomed's shield. But then Marth's jab is a bit one frame slower than Ganon's jab on startup, and even slower than Ganon's jab on wind down.

Wavedash jab is a good mixup. But against players that crouchcancel it into jabs or grabs, Doc is pretty much screwed.

 

[Shroomed]

I played Linguini a few times at Apex, and what I was doing was working. I went undefeated (<3 Linguini). But I think we played like only twice or three times. Sneaking in uairs before his aerials come out is also a great idea. I can't really explain to you guys how to do it, I just need to be playing. But sneaking uairs and doing wavedash jabs works a lot.

 

[Max?]

So I've been playing a lot of unorthodox matchups recently (Ganon, DK, GnW, Zelda, Ness to name a few). A few thoughts.

Ftilt is god like. Spamming pills is good. Doc wins a lot of matchups if he gets the first kill and decides to be safe, but I guess thats what a large amount of this game is like sadly.

 

[Frisbie]

ive watched that match against pewpew so many times, and after trying out what you did in that game, i actually kind of like the matchup vs marth.
as for wavedashing out of shield against ganon, i think that i would have to get in pretty fast, like before his land lag was over from the aerial he did. otherwise i think that i would get punished for it, especially if i do it a lot and he starts predicting it. i do love uair and uptilt vs ganon. when he's above me and i can get a uair or uptilt off, there's not much he can do except for maybe jump out of it. i also like to play ganon on big stages, especially FD where there arent platforms, because on small stages it seems like he can put me in a corner or off the stage pretty easily if he gets a good hit on me.