Do we need ALL veteran characters back in SSB Ultimate?

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IslandChef

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#1
In my opinion, No bc if we wanted to play old characters, we'd just play the old games. As much as i'll enjoy having them all in one game, a huge part of the hype of a new smash game is wondering A and B
A) who returns and
B) Who's new.

So they eliminated A because straight up we know everyone is back. And B is somewhat less exciting bc we're told we're getting less new characters in favor of bringing back old ones.

Thoughts?

Also for some reason this post got removed after only a few minutes on the general discussion forums and i'm unsure why. I guess it's not general discussion-y enough.
 
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Miifighters4Smash5

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#2
Here's my Take on this:

A. Pros/Positives
1. Return of the Mii Fighters:4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
2. Return of Young Link:younglinkmelee:
3. Return of Wolf O'Donnell:wolf:
4. Return of The Ice Climbers:icsmelee::icsmelee:
B. Cons/Negatives
1. Return of Pichu(UGH... Who Uses this Lousy Lowest-tier Prevolution, anyways? seriously, who ever missed this guy?! :pichumelee:)
2. Return of Bayonetta(I'm not a Fan of her; and I'm not trying to cause a Flame war; But I Honestly have Very Negative Opinions of her, and If you like her, and have good things to say about her, More power to you, So I'll do the respectable thing, and simply agree to disagree with you):4bayonetta::4bayonetta2:
 

Wyoming

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#3
I like it. Means DLC will be strictly newcomers and we get to have everyone back for one game. The Everyone is Here trailer was sublime.

I say this as someone who has about 5 newcomers I actually want in and I vastly prefer veterans. That was a treat.
 
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#5
I do think some were unneccesary like pichu and lucina but i don't have a problem with it. Now fans of all teh characters are happy and nobody loses out on their old favorites. Overall the roster seems to be the most solid and well rounded it's ever been/it looks like for less emphasiss on new stuff they're fine tuning the mechanics and feel of each character using bases they are already familiar with. If i have to deal with less potential new characters(though keep in mind there's always a chance at post-release dlc) to have a roster with Ridley, ivysaur, snake, and wolf all in one game then so be it!

Honestly to me this feels like the first case in smash history where everybody wins in a sense! Nobody has to worry about losing their old favorites and mains!
 
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Miifighters4Smash5

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#9
Pichu is a brother regardless. He was actually in my top 10 wants for this game alongside Wolf (#1), Ridley (#4), Snake (#7), and Ice Climbers (#8) at number 9.
But He's the Lowest of the Low-Tiers; He's even More of a joke than Jigglypuff(As shown by Hungrybox; She's a Lethal Joke Character; as she's very OP if you know how to use her right, and as effectively)
 

Wyoming

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#11
But He's the Lowest of the Low-Tiers; He's even More of a joke than Jigglypuff(As shown by Hungrybox; She's a Lethal Joke Character; as she's very OP if you know how to use her right, and as effectively)
So? I play and watch competitive, but the tier lists don't impact how much I enjoy playing as a character on a casual scale.

As for Pichu being a joke character: well hopefully that changes and it is balanced more properly for this game than the intention was in Melee.

I won't complain about the Smash tonight: it is essentially a celebration of the series' 20th anniversary jam-packed of past content and the most requested character of the past decade getting in. The new stuff will come.
 

Miifighters4Smash5

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#12
So? I play and watch competitive, but the tier lists don't impact how much I enjoy playing as a character on a casual scale.

As for Pichu being a joke character: well hopefully that changes and it is balanced more properly for this game than the intention was in Melee.

I won't complain about the Smash tonight: it is essentially a celebration of the series' 20th anniversary jam-packed of past content and the most requested character of the past decade getting in. The new stuff will come.
Considering that Pichu STILL was confirmed to take as much Recoil from its own Attacks, I'm pretty sure that Pichu will still suck.
 

Spinosaurus

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#13
I have literally no idea how anyone could be unhappy about this. Everyone got their mains back, everyone ultimately wins.

I personally don't care about a lot of potential newcomers and am more invested in veterans changes. Everyone coming back and competitive changes appeals to me a lot. The hype cycle also perpetuates toxic mentalities and pointless arguments, so the less of dealing with it, the better.
 

RandomAce

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#14
Lucina and Dark Pit (and Daisy) aren’t considered seperate enough to be on their own but different enough to not be the same. That’s why they have the same number as when their counterpart entered but with an E symbol.

Tbh, I don’t think Pichu and Young Link were necessary, but PKMN Trainer, Snake, Wolf, and ICs are great in my book and I’m happy those returned.
 
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Miifighters4Smash5

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#15
Lucina and Dark Pit (and Daisy) aren’t considered seperate enough to be on their own but different enough to not be the same. That’s why they have the same number as when their counterpart entered but with an E symbol.

Tbh, I don’t think Pichu and Young Link were necessary, but PKMN Trainer, Snake, Wolf, and ICs are great in my book and I’m happy those returned.
I've been BEGGING on these forums for them to Re-Include Young Link; especially with the potential for Fierce Diety to be his Final Smash!!

And Since BOTW Link was CONFIRMED to have a completely DIFFERENT Final Smash;
Maybe Toon Link could still keep the Triforce Slash
and Young Link could transform into his Fierce Deity Form and Spam Sword Beams like he could in Majora's Mask & MM3D

I've been BEGGING on these forums for them to Re-Include Young Link; especially with the potential for Fierce Diety to be his Final Smash!!

And Since BOTW Link was CONFIRMED to have a completely DIFFERENT Final Smash;
Maybe Toon Link could still keep the Triforce Slash
and Young Link could transform into his Fierce Deity Form and Spam Sword Beams like he could in Majora's Mask & MM3D
and maybe For Lucario's Final Smash; they could COMBINE His Brawl & SSB4 Final Smash into one; Have him Transform into Mega Lucario, and Perform his Aura Kamehameha
 
D

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#18
Do we need all of the back? Nah. But this game literally feels like straight fans service. And for each forgotten character is some upset fans. I'm all for the Everybody is Back movement.
 

ryuu seika

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#19
Here's my Take on this:
A. Pros/Positives
1. Return of the Mii Fighters:4miibrawl::4miigun::4miisword:
2. Return of Young Link:younglinkmelee:
3. Return of Wolf O'Donnell:wolf:
4. Return of The Ice Climbers:icsmelee::icsmelee:
B. Cons/Negatives
1. Return of Pichu(UGH... Who Uses this Lousy Lowest-tier Prevolution, anyways? seriously, who ever missed this guy?! :pichumelee:)
2. Return of Bayonetta(I'm not a Fan of her; and I'm not trying to cause a Flame war; But I Honestly have Very Negative Opinions of her, and If you like her, and have good things to say about her, More power to you, So I'll do the respectable thing, and simply agree to disagree with you):4bayonetta::4bayonetta2:
Counterpoint with equal merit and objectivity:

A. Pros/Positives
1. Return of The Ice Climbers :icsmelee::icsmelee:
2. Return of Pichu :pichumelee:
B. Cons/Negatives
1. Return of Zero Suit Samus (irellevant gimmick character :4zss:)
2. Return of Sheik (irellevant, slightly less gimmicky, gimmick character :4sheik:)
3. Return of Bayonetta:4bayonetta::4bayonetta2:
4. Return of The Yellow Devil (or whatever this weird, limbed abomination is supposed to be :4pacman:)
5. Return of the actual Yellow Devil
6. Return of Black Pit (a litteral clone who has no reason to exist and is frankly just annoying :4darkpit:)
7. Return of Wolf O'Donnell over Krystal, a Starfox character with actual unique moveset potential :wolf:
8. Return of Snake (who doesn't fit the atmosphere of Smash :snake:)
9. Return of the clown cart (an annoying character or 9 who they stuck in a vehicle because he/they had no moveset potential of their own)
10. Return of Ridley (now in hideous, gangly, fragile-looking, playable character form)
 

Venus of the Desert Bloom

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#22
Here’s how I see it.

It’s awesome to have the entire roster back with three new additions (albeit not entirely happy with Daisy) but I have a few concerns:

This is all we get. No more characters after this.
This is the last Smash game for Sakurai as director.
This is Smash 4 Super Deluxe Ultimate
This is the last Smash for a looooong time.

Why not go out with a bang when it’s near the end of the show? The Ultimate Smash that will last a loooong time.
 

RandomAce

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#25
I see salt and annoyance
I just hope that my most wanted are in, and that I don’t have to pay for my most wanted characters. (I.e. Rex, Elma, Spring Man). That’s why I don’t really like DLC, a lot of characters that could get into the base roster, could end up being DLC that I have to pay for.

Sure, Sakurai doesn’t like DLC, but since there was A LOT of effort being into bringing and updating the old, which isn’t really as hype as the new, the new will have to come later. (Pls just don’t make Issac DLC, I’ve waited so long for him). So far the game looks VERY good, and I want my most wanted to also get that treatment.
 
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TMNTSSB4

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#26
I just hope that my most wanted are in, and that I don’t have to pay for my most wanted characters. (I.e. Rex, Elma, Spring Man). That’s why I don’t really like DLC, a lot of characters that could get into the base roster, could end up being DLC that I have to pay for.

Sure, Sakurai doesn’t like DLC, but since there was A LOT of effort being into bringing and updating the old, which isn’t really as hype as the new, the new will have to come later. (Pls just don’t make Issac DLC, I’ve waited so long for him). So far the game looks VERY good, and I want my most wanted to also get that treatment.
Lyn ain’t in and Captain Toad is near a 50/50 split now, but Pit/Dark Pit might’ve gained some strength buffs and Ridley is in Smash as a playable character instead of a background character/intro cameo/boss fight/stage hazard+boss+npc ally...I’m satisfied
 

Koopaul

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#27
The only reason why I'm somewhat annoyed is for what I feared it would mean for newcomers. I always knew that if they made a Smash where they brought back all the veterans it would mean we would get less newcomers. And Sakurai pretty much said it himself that we won't be getting many new fighters this time around.

I'm sorry but I'll always take newcomers over dusty old clones.
 

Idon

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#28
The only reason why I'm somewhat annoyed is for what I feared it would mean for newcomers. I always knew that if they made a Smash where they brought back all the veterans it would mean we would get less newcomers. And Sakurai pretty much said it himself that we won't be getting many new fighters this time around.

I'm sorry but I'll always take newcomers over dusty old clones.
I don't want to be pessimistic, but it feels like Sakurai wants to appeal more to nostalgia than potential this time around.
 

CaptainAmerica

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#29
I am so happy to see all the vets return. My big one was Squirtle, and I couldn't realistically see him coming back without the Pokemon Trainer returning, and with everyone's feelings on transformations here...

I don't really need too many newcomers. Smash has most of the big names now. I've really only got two characters I'd like to see at this point, and one of those is really unlikely.

They weren't kidding when they called this the ultimate.
 

Gallerian

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#30
I've talked about stuff like this with friends in the past. I was always in favor of a smaller pool of newcomers in favor of reworked returning veterans. That seemed to be what happened this time around. Quite a few of the veterans got tweaks to them to make them feel more fresh. Just because some of these characters are 20+ years old, doesn't mean that they should feel that way too. Seems like Sakurai and his team finally got that hint.

This also means that any upcoming DLC will be strictly newcomers, which I feel is worth my money more than a DLC veteran. In fact, I think all of this has got me even more hyped than any Smash game before has done.
 

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#31
For the record, I felt the question was better in the Smash Ultimate Main Thread. No worries, though. And yeah, this is a better section to ask it in. :)

Anyway, I'm very happy with this, though I wanted Lucina and Dark Pit to get a few more differences, somewhat closer to Dr. Mario. But that's okay too. They all play differently to some degree.
 

FunAtParties

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#32
I'm not really happy with it, but I can live with it. Good for their fans, I guess. Wish they would've kept Pokemon Trainer separate though.
 

StarDustStorm

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#34
They probably want us to focus on the new content instead of asking for old content to return such as old fighters, and stages. We don't really need to ask for older fighters to return because they are all in the game, people in the community are usually worried if a specific fighter doesn't return now it is not a discussion you'll be hearing until the game is released other than people can't wait to play as all of these characters. And the Smash Bros. series is almost 20 years old so the game should be a celebration of all things smash bros. Now we can hear people asking for new content in this game.
 
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Mic_128

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#35
Wish they would've kept Pokemon Trainer separate though.
Since there's no 'stamina' aspect needing you to swap through em, you can pick one and play just that one as it's own. (Woo, Squirtle!)
 
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#36
In my opinion, No bc if we wanted to play old characters, we'd just play the old games. As much as i'll enjoy having them all in one game, a huge part of the hype of a new smash game is wondering A and B
A) who returns and
B) Who's new.

So they eliminated A because straight up we know everyone is back. And B is somewhat less exciting bc we're told we're getting less new characters in favor of bringing back old ones.
That's a horrible argument.
Not everybody owns every Smash game, or has access to all of them. Furthermore, you're talking about at least 4 different games here. Not everybody has the money to buy 4 games, with two of them being old enough to cost stupid amounts of money.

Furthermore, excluding even a single veteran would pretty much defeat the purpose of the game. The whole point is for this to be the Ultimate Smash, and it couldn't do that if it half-***ed itself and only went partway.

They might never get the chance to do this again, so they have to do it now.
 

CaptainAmerica

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#38
That's a horrible argument.
Not everybody owns every Smash game, or has access to all of them. Furthermore, you're talking about at least 4 different games here. Not everybody has the money to buy 4 games, with two of them being old enough to cost stupid amounts of money.

Furthermore, excluding even a single veteran would pretty much defeat the purpose of the game. The whole point is for this to be the Ultimate Smash, and it couldn't do that if it half-***ed itself and only went partway.

They might never get the chance to do this again, so they have to do it now.
In addition: there are some matchups we couldn't have had otherwise.

Squirtle vs. Mewtwo?
Snake vs. Bayonetta?
Young Link vs. Toon Link?

I don't agree at all that getting all vets immediately confirmed is a bad thing. I love not having to feel the worry that my favorites are not important enough to make the cut - as a Squirtle player, Smash 4 stung, and the fact that Mewtwo and Squirtle were out and neither Ridley nor K.Rool were in but Dark Pit was did put a damper on my enjoyment of the game. Now, I've got most of my favorites in, so I'm basically going to be happy with the roster however it turns out.

This game truly is one for the fans, and I'll already say that this could well be the last Smash we'll ever need. I'd even be okay with them delaying it one more month so they could announce it as Smash's 20th anniversary (Smash 64 released Jan 1999 in Japan)
 
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#40
I'm very happy with no cuts at all even the resurrections

You guys are just mad we're only getting aproximately 5-7 newcomers for the base this time (plus a couple more echo fighters) but why is this a bad thing as more smashes come in less and less characters get added to the amount each time.

Then probably hits near 80 when DLC kicks in
 
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