Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Yoshi-Thomas]

July 30th 4chan comment https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/565589861/#565642448

Don't take it the wrong way but I find it funny six pages later that you link it lol

 

[Rie Sonomura]

July 30th 4chan comment https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/565589861/#565642448

Is there anything in particular I’m supposed to be looking for?

oh then nvm

 

[Sigran101]

Stats aren't actually loose. With the exception of Ken having a different speed a bit, everybody has the exact same stats. Ken is treated as "a fairly big exception" and even compared to Dr. Mario as he borders being a regular clone over an Echo. Dr. Mario is also noted as a clone who borders on being close to an Echo. But still holds the same weight value and most of the same stats. It's not a good example to use stats as loose when they blatantly aren't for Echoes.

Moveset is the only thing that's loose, since it's more about "how easy is it is to make the moveset work from the base or borrow from other characters". Dark Pit copied Light Arrow, for instance, so easy to program. Chrom's main unique move is borrowed from Ike, etc. These aren't what I'd call "major" differences in terms of development requirements. Animations still require obviously more than an alt costume, of course, but they aren't nearly that loose. The big thing Chrom and Lucina even have is removing the sweetspot mechanic. So basically Giga Bowser is actually extremely close to what an Echo is other than stats, as every move is basically a revision of Bowser's. Metal Mario obviously is bar the stats, being an exact clone of Mario(albeit, he's only an actual character in the N64 game, but he'd probably just be Melee Mario at best? Or at least focused to be akin to that. Dr. Mario in a sense has the whole point of heavier/stronger than Metal Mario has, while still having his own clear attributes too).

Even then, movesets in most cases aren't actually loose outside of Ken. There's usually one minor or big changed move, sometimes a mechanical change(Lucina) that overall affects the way they fight, but still shares the same overall moveset as their base. I don't even need to go into bad ones like Daisy who doesn't have anything different besides a hurtbox on a very select few moves/animations/taunts. -_- Dark Samus has electricity only but the moveset is pretty much the same otherwise. Richter has one slightly different move(which rarely comes up), and I'm not sure if his hurtbox changes for some animations among taunts/idles/etc.

In the end, Ken is the only one who plays loose with how Echoes generally are. He's not the normal one. Lucina and Chrom are more or less kind of the most neutral in terms of changes. Same stats, slight change to how they play, sometimes a new move. That's the usual Echo thing is they aren't almost identical(see Daisy for a case of "99.999999999999999% the same. Richter is more like 95% due to one move being relevant rarely).


But then how do you tell Metal Mario and regular Metal Box Mario apart if they're almost identical otherwise? Cause I thought the point you were making is Metal Mario wouldn't look different enough from the Metal Box form. I know there's the iris stuff, but these are very difficult to tell apart. Slightly different hues are bad as costumes too, so...

That said, it's a cool idea if you can already tell Metal Mario and Metal Box Mario apart without the N64 model first. I'm fine with whatever works~

Or did you mean Mario turns into his N64 Metal Mario model instead? If so, what does Metal Mario gain from the Metal Box? Cause that's where I think a problem arises.

You can't point out a character that already has the differences I'm talking about and then say it's too different because that character is the exception. So far the echo label is pretty arbitrary.

 

[Sucumbio]

We're talking Metal Mario~? I've actually worked on programming him as a fullclone, through modding Ultimate. I've been learning Rust in the process!
My current implementation is unfinished, but so far...

- His weight is drastically increased to be heavier not only than Mario, but moreso than even Mario with the Metal Box. He's around 3-4 times Bowser's weight.

- He has an enhanced form of Bowser's Tough Guy that's actually more effective. For example, the vast majority of the rosters' tilts would get no-sell'd. It's extremely potent which necessitates his crippling weaknesses, as they are listed below...

- His mobility is absolutely butchered. It's worse than not only Mario but even Doc. He's slower on the ground, has poorer air speed, and a lower jump. His jump-squat is increased to eight frames, as well.

- His falling speed is raised dramatically to be twice Mario's. Well faster than even Fox, it does a lot to make it very, very difficult to recover when the opponent does manage to get you offstage. His best tool for doing such is his airdodge.

I'd like to give him some new moves in the future, but for now it's just the attributes. Here's some video~!

Spoiler: YouTube embed

Metal Mario is a twisted mockery of Mario's jack-of-all-trades design philosophy; a character of terrifyingly powerful strengths and comically damaging weaknesses.

Cool!

He's kazuya

But nah that's awesome is this similar to brawl metal attributes?

 

[Momotsuki]

Cool!

He's kazuya

But nah that's awesome is this similar to brawl metal attributes?

Hmm... not really? I started by simply applying the Metal Box modifiers to his attribute params, and then tweaked them to have him be less "Mario with the Metal Box" and more "Metal Mario, straight out of SSB64." which ended up meaning his attributes were more extreme, not less.
The Tough Guy armor was a bit more freeform. I took a piece of Terry's scripts for his Super Specials and applied it to Metal Mario once every frame.

What's nice is that I have all this stuff being only applied to Mario's sixth costume slot, which is where I have Metal Mario's visual skin installed. Mario as we know him is thus still functionally intact and coexists with this new clone.

Thank you, though~!

 

[Sucumbio]

The tldr of the wyvy argument is.?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

We're talking Metal Mario~? I've actually worked on programming him as a fullclone, through modding Ultimate. I've been learning Rust in the process!
My current implementation is unfinished, but so far...

- His weight is drastically increased to be heavier not only than Mario, but moreso than even Mario with the Metal Box. He's around 3-4 times Bowser's weight.

- He has an enhanced form of Bowser's Tough Guy that's actually more effective. For example, the vast majority of the rosters' tilts would get no-sell'd. It's extremely potent which necessitates his crippling weaknesses, as they are listed below...

- His mobility is absolutely butchered. It's worse than not only Mario but even Doc. He's slower on the ground, has poorer air speed, and a lower jump. His jump-squat is increased to eight frames, as well.

- His falling speed is raised dramatically to be twice Mario's. Well faster than even Fox, it does a lot to make it very, very difficult to recover when the opponent does manage to get you offstage. His best tool for doing such is his airdodge.

I'd like to give him some new moves in the future, but for now it's just the attributes. Here's some video~!

My thoughts:

• His movement looks right, though it would be a better showcase if we were looking at actual players.
• The Tough Guy is extremely not OK. Like, Mythra couldn't put him in hitstun at all, and I'd imagine most characters would have trouble doing so as well so he can pretty much punish any move that would be used in the neutral. This is why people hate FGC bosses; they tend to punish you for doing anything at all.
• Even without the Tough Guy I do worry that he might be polarizing enough that he's like Little Mac where the correct solution is to just run away from him, which he can't do anything about.

This is of course, assuming you want him to have any semblance of balance. The idea of a character who is extremely hard to launch, but pretty much automatically dies if you get them off stage is pretty interesting.

But then how do you tell Metal Mario and regular Metal Box Mario apart if they're almost identical otherwise? Cause I thought the point you were making is Metal Mario wouldn't look different enough from the Metal Box form. I know there's the iris stuff, but these are very difficult to tell apart. Slightly different hues are bad as costumes too, so...

That said, it's a cool idea if you can already tell Metal Mario and Metal Box Mario apart without the N64 model first. I'm fine with whatever works~

My thinking is that if you can make Metal Mario as shiny as he is in Mario Kart 8, then you could tell him apart from metal Mario, as the Metal Box doesn't really make characters all that shiny (and they seem to keep their original texture work as well but that's less helpful).

One thing that I forgot is that Metal Mario actually moves differently from Mario in recent appearances, favoring choppy motions as opposed to Mario's fluid ones. You might be able to make him feel distinct by changing the timing on his animations where possible.

 

[Sucumbio]

My thoughts:

• The Tough Guy is extremely not OK. Like, Mythra couldn't put him in hitstun at all, and I'd imagine most characters would have trouble doing so as well so he can pretty much punish any move that would be used in the neutral. This is why people hate FGC bosses; they tend to punish you for doing anything at all.

What about grabs?

Maybe the whole cast can chain grab him off the ledge lol (though they somehow eliminated chain grabbing so prolly have to fix that ooooooh myyyy)

 

[Shadowvegeta]

I have a feeling its going to be the Shin Megami Tensei V protag or a pokemon. However I would like to be wrong. (Im not saying I hate SMT or Pokemon and Im sure if they got in sakurai would find a way to make the fun to play as. I would just like it to be a character thats not for promoting anything.) Just my opinion though. God knows when we'll get anything smash related after CP 11 releases, I would just like it to go out with a bang. Then again no matter who it is there will be complaints. IDK after all this waiting and all these fake leaks showing up just to be debunked 5 minutes after their posted, Ive kinda gotten tired of the speculation scene hell ive been visiting this page less and less and im kinda embracing the end. I love this game and what it has become It really has been a wild ride and Im sure no matter who gets announced I'll still enjoy playing them...................................With that said Eggman for smash lol

 

[TheCJBrine]

Metal Mario? I’d love him! Here’s some ideas:

• Down-air is the ground pound
• His fire turns blue and/or has different properties, or he uses super balls instead
• His metallic texture is always the same no matter the stage, and has different shine from the metal box’s metal
• Down special is Mario’s N64 one, maybe with a few differences idk
• Very heavy, but decent speed and jump height (still kinda dangerous to be offstage but not impossible to recover after doing a combo or something)
• Taunts include tossing up a fireball or superball and catching it with his other hand, one mocking either Mario’s old growth taunt or his thumbs up (maybe he could do a thumbs down instead?), and maybe an eye glare

 

[Deleted member]

We got a couple of days til the fateful day comes when we reach the series finale, so with simplified summaries, here's 4 titles that look likely for CP11 to me:

Undertale (still a massively popular Indie title that has only gotten a Mii Costume and not much else since 2 years ago before Vol 2 was even finalized)
Pokemon Sword and Shield (not convinced any of the events prior write off this game at all since it's pretty much the biggest new-ish title Nintendo have atm)
Dynasty Warriors (Koei-Tecmo's lengthy partnership with Nintendo and being the flagship series from them)
Shin Megami Tensei V (super recent upcoming title that's been in the works since the unveiling of the Switch so by the time they greenlit this it would've already had a set release at that point)

Tell me how none of these will be CP11 all you want, but at this rate, I'm sticking with these 4 being the likeliest for CP11 while hoping 1 title I didn't mention manages to somehow pull through in the end and surprises everyone including me because of how unlikely it sounds.

 

[chocolatejr9]

We got a couple of days til the fateful day comes when we reach the series finale, so with simplified summaries, here's 4 titles that look likely for CP11 to me:

Undertale (still a massively popular Indie title that has only gotten a Mii Costume and not much else since 2 years ago before Vol 2 was even finalized)
Pokemon Sword and Shield (not convinced any of the events prior write off this game at all since it's pretty much the biggest new-ish title Nintendo have atm)
Dynasty Warriors (Koei-Tecmo's lengthy partnership with Nintendo and being the flagship series from them)
Shin Megami Tensei V (super recent upcoming title that's been in the works since the unveiling of the Switch so by the time they greenlit this it would've already had a set release at that point)

Tell me how none of these will be CP11 all you want, but at this rate, I'm sticking with these 4 being the likeliest for CP11 while hoping 1 title I didn't mention manages to somehow pull through in the end and surprises everyone including me because of how unlikely it sounds.

Let me guess, Hades?

 

[WeirdChillFever]

Yeah boy, team Dynasty Warriors!

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

What about grabs?

Maybe the whole cast can chain grab him off the ledge lol (though they somehow eliminated chain grabbing so prolly have to fix that ooooooh myyyy)

Well...OK yeah, that would incapacitate him by its very nature, but I'm not sure allowing/forcing you to grab him to death is a good idea.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

You can't point out a character that already has the differences I'm talking about and then say it's too different because that character is the exception. So far the echo label is pretty arbitrary.

Sure I can. Pun aside, let's actually remember that Ken is the only one who doesn't share every Attribute and Weight with their base. Every Echo sharing their Weight is a good sign to call it a rule. Now, I'm not saying it can't change, but it's treated separately from general Attributes thusfar, so why would Ken be an example of Weight not mattering? In a future game, they can do what they want, but we're talking about what actually is happening right now. And right now Weights do not change. So trying to argue they can change with absolutely zero good examples doesn't really help your point.

Echo isn't an arbitrary label alone. It's intentionally a subset of a Modal Swap Fighter(which we like to call clone and semi-clone where applicable, or sometimes neither) with specifics.
-Every character must share the same bodyshape. If an exception exists, it's barely pixels in differences. Lucina is the only good example of this, and she was originally shorter model-wise(she was modified to be a costume first, which is what made her possible as a proper Echo. She'd be a clone otherwise if she was her normal size in Smash).
-Attributes are pretty much the same. Exceptions can exist, but it's very rare.
-Weight is always the same. This has yet to change(and may never).
-The movesets can vary. Not to be confused with their core mechanic, though. For the most part, movesets have minor differences with a move having a different attribute(this is not the same as a character attribute either) sometimes, or sometimes actually a different move altogether(Chrom is like... it for this. Ken has the same base moves as his counterpart instead).
-Mechanics actually are far more loose. We've only seen that a mechanic is the same, but it's applied in a unique way(Ken has different input commands from Ryu), or the mechanic is outright removed/modified, but still follows the same logic(can still apply to Ken, but Lucina having her entire sword as a sweetspot is the same kind of mechanic that Marth has). Technically, with what I said in mind, no mechanic has been entirely removed from an Echo(it seems that way for Lucina and Chrom. You could argue that it's removed or modified to work in a different manner though. Especially as it's just the same as how Roy used the sweetspot mechanic, just changing where the sweetspots are. Either point works. Mechanic is gone or modified). In a sense, the mechanics aren't even as loose as it might seem, depending how you look at it.

The tldr of the wyvy argument is.?

It's better to say there's none and leave it at that.

(I'll edit in some other replies later).

 

[SNEKeater]

Random but I just couldn't help myself to not post this super cute drawing.

Kirbynetta pic.twitter.com/DfCBWwRgCL

— kingg (@kingaza_) September 25, 2021

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My thinking is that if you can make Metal Mario as shiny as he is in Mario Kart 8, then you could tell him apart from metal Mario, as the Metal Box doesn't really make characters all that shiny (and they seem to keep their original texture work as well but that's less helpful).

One thing that I forgot is that Metal Mario actually moves differently from Mario in recent appearances, favoring choppy motions as opposed to Mario's fluid ones. You might be able to make him feel distinct by changing the timing on his animations where possible.

Textures, that was it! Yeah, those are what I meant when I said hues. But yeah, they suck.

Shiny might work, though(and he's definitely a different color in Smash 64 whereas Melee and onward are about the same Metal Box color). I feel like having a truly different model isn't bad either. But yeah, moving differently helps as well. So basically Metal Mario would feel kind of like how Luigi is different from Mario with what you said, but obviously have Mario's core shape.

That said, my thought for costumes are at least Silver, Gold, and two Wing Cap versions. Maybe Blue and Purple for the last two(with Wing Cap variations). Purple just kind of flows well for a metallic color, and Blue is basically the Vanish Cap. Did you read my ideas about the Wing Cap and Vanish Cap references?

(Okay, no need to edit).

 

[Ivander]

Random but I just couldn't help myself to not post this super cute drawing.

Kirbynetta pic.twitter.com/DfCBWwRgCL

— kingg (@kingaza_) September 25, 2021

LoZ: Breath of the Wild 2, Metroid Dread, Bayonetta 3, it'll be interesting to see if the next Smash Bros. gets any new designs, or alt costumes, for any characters.

 

[Caboose70]

I mean... I'd be hyped if a Ray 01 reveal led to a Custom Robo revival.

But I'm like 1 of the 4 fans left so....

I'll join you as the 2nd fan!

 

[Quick Gaming (QG)]

my last guesses are:
Nahobino (obvious reasons)
Gen 8 Pokemon (best guess would be Zarude)
Frisk (Undertale content lacking, etc, etc)
Danganronpa rep (sleeper pick that's only gaining popularity, Sakurai is on good terms with the creator, has openly expressed that he likes the series, has a Switch exclusive release coming out later this year and the company that makes the games has made all the Pokemon Mystery Dungeon games as well, so like most third party companies in Smash, they have history with Nintendo. If nothing else a mii costume seems plausible)

as far as most likely I lean towards Zarude. I also think we'll get Doomguy and Phoenix Wright mii costumes

 

[chocolatejr9]

Random but I just couldn't help myself to not post this super cute drawing.

Kirbynetta pic.twitter.com/DfCBWwRgCL

— kingg (@kingaza_) September 25, 2021

Everything's better with Kirby.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I can't be mad if we end up with Sora.

I don't care about him, or Kingdom Hearts, but I can't sanely try and argue that Sora wouldn't be a huge deal and that the character doesn't deserve the spot.

I just realized that Sora's technically a western character
He is, right?

Depends whether you count who owns a character, or who created it, against it's regionality.

 

[Momotsuki]

Well...OK yeah, that would incapacitate him by its very nature, but I'm not sure allowing/forcing you to grab him to death is a good idea.

He can be grabbed and it's pretty much his biggest Achille's heel. Though throws hardly even move him until very high percentages. A well-timed throw is crucial but only after chipping away at the immovable object.

My main goal has been to make him feel as intimidating as possible to fight against. I've muted his voice and subdued his jump SFX (though the latter was after the posted footage) and it helps to make fighting him feel like a fruitless effort to starve off a slowly-approaching but implacable force. All you can do is shake off the fear and hope you can trip him up.
He's a boss, straight up.

 

[Ivander]

I mean... I'd be hyped if a Ray 01 reveal led to a Custom Robo revival.

But I'm like 1 of the 4 fans left so....

I'll join you as the 2nd fan!

Am I not one despite leaving a like?

That said, I'm honestly hoping that if Advance Wars Reboot is a success, that Wayforward does a Custom Robo remake at some point. I think Wayforward's art direction would work good with Custom Robo.

 

[The Stoopid Unikorn]

Balder to promote Bayonetta 3.

Well...There's always Jeanne too.

That or a new character potentially introduced in it.

While another Bayonetta character would be dope, trying to tie it to promotion for a game that could be released a year after the actual Challenger Pack... I feel like you're stretching things here.

 

[Theguy123]

If y’all want something fun to do. Head over to the sora thread on 4chan. It’s where they’re discussing the sora leak and ohhh boy, it’s an absolute shambles over there to the point where it’s hilarious.

that thread ain’t going anywhere for the time being.

 

[SNEKeater]

LoZ: Breath of the Wild 2, Metroid Dread, Bayonetta 3, it'll be interesting to see if the next Smash Bros. gets any new designs, or alt costumes, for any characters.

For Samus and Bayo I think we're 100% going to get their newest designs as an alts, probably even as the default look. I especially hope that for Samus, I've never liked the Other M design that much.

As for Link I'm not that sure, I'd love it though because his new look is very cool IMO

 

[BlondeLombax]

Another day, another DLC character to look back on.

Day 2: Joker

On the eve of Smash Ultimate’s launch day, merely 30 minutes before the official North American release, the first Fighters Pass character of many to come was revealed: Joker from Persona 5. I remember my reaction quite well. As the trailer went on, I thought to myself “This is a Smash reveal, isn’t it?”. Lo and behold, that is what happened. I sat there in stunned silence knowing full well that Alpharad once again got the character he wanted. And, as it turned out, just like Bayonetta in Smash 4, it was an omen for things to come...

The wait for his release felt like a long one, as all we got between his reveal and April was his character model in a February Nintendo Direct, with a hint of further additions coming with him in the Spring. When April finally rolled around, Joker's showcase trailer was dropped unexpectedly, showing off his moveset, the new Stage Builder mode, and dropping the release date: one day after the showcase was dropped. Joker was the only Fighter's Pass character to not receive a Sakurai Presents, which is also interesting to note. On the day he was released, however, I remember that Nintendo's servers were riddled with troubles and it took me nearly two hours of trying to download the update to finally get my hands on him.

Once he was finally in players' hands, though, he slowly proved to be one of, if not the best characters in the game. Although MKLeo has moved on to other characters as of recent, he pushed Joker to his absolute limit, showing the power of Arsene. Arsene also became a divisive mechanic in itself, with many arguing that it made Joker too powerful. As for me, I, too, have grown to detest whenever the scary top hat man comes out to play, as I know I will soon be on the receiving end of powerful normals and projectiles or the best counter in the game.

Not a character I was expecting (or pretty much anybody was, for that matter), but still an incredibly pleasant surprise and fun character. The wait felt agonizingly long, though.

 

[FreeFox]

I was hoping for one last hurrah for leaks but nothing. Zero image leaks. I know we have a few days before the reveal but some old school image leaks would spice things up.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

That said, my thought for costumes are at least Silver, Gold, and two Wing Cap versions. Maybe Blue and Purple for the last two(with Wing Cap variations). Purple just kind of flows well for a metallic color, and Blue is basically the Vanish Cap.

My pallet swap predictions would be:

• Metal Mario (Default)
• Weathered Copper (Green)
• Silver (Silver)
• Gold Mario (Gold)
• Pink Gold (Rose Gold)
• Black (Black)
• Bronze (Brown)
• A metalic blue, red, or purple (the three colors not yet used)

Did you read my ideas about the Wing Cap and Vanish Cap references?

Went back and read it. My issue with the idea of the Wing Cap as an alternate costume is that it's about as different as PAC-Man's alternate costumes; not very. It's probably doable, but a bit boring, and probably not ideal for telling different Metal Marios apart.

rereads previous statement

Oh, uh. OK. It seems my brain doesn't work right now. I can't even form an opinion on it. lol

As for the Vanish Cap being a move for Metal Mario. It would depend on the execution, but it could be interesting. Heh, he could actually be legitimately scary with a move like that since you'd be able to know he's moving by his loud footsteps, but not know where.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

bottom text

Ah, I see, a man of culture.

 

[BlondeLombax]

We're talking Metal Mario~? I've actually worked on programming him as a fullclone, through modding Ultimate. I've been learning Rust in the process!
My current implementation is unfinished, but so far...

- His weight is drastically increased to be heavier not only than Mario, but moreso than even Mario with the Metal Box. He's around 3-4 times Bowser's weight.

- He has an enhanced form of Bowser's Tough Guy that's actually more effective. For example, the vast majority of the rosters' tilts would get no-sell'd. It's extremely potent which necessitates his crippling weaknesses, as they are listed below...

- His mobility is absolutely butchered. It's worse than not only Mario but even Doc. He's slower on the ground, has poorer air speed, and a lower jump. His jump-squat is increased to eight frames, as well.

- His falling speed is raised dramatically to be twice Mario's. Well faster than even Fox, it does a lot to make it very, very difficult to recover when the opponent does manage to get you offstage. His best tool for doing such is his airdodge.

I'd like to give him some new moves in the future, but for now it's just the attributes. Here's some video~!

Spoiler: YouTube embed

Metal Mario is a twisted mockery of Mario's jack-of-all-trades design philosophy; a character of terrifyingly powerful strengths and comically damaging weaknesses.

You know how Metal Mario has unique texture work in the Mario spinoffs, like a visible cap emblem and darker hair? I suggest doing that, while adding a little less luster to differentiate him from the powerup. Maybe make his movements a little more clunky and robotic, and give him a warbled version of regular Mario's voice like in Mario Kart.

 

[Gorgonzales]

I was hoping for one last hurrah for leaks but nothing. Zero image leaks. I know we have a few days before the reveal but some old school image leaks would spice things up.

at this point the final challenger being leaked just 10 days before the presentation would just make me feel kinda deflated since it would mean we were robbed of the very last surprise this game has to offer for us at the last minute

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My pallet swap predictions would be:

• Metal Mario (Default)
• Weathered Copper (Green)
• Silver (Silver)
• Gold Mario (Gold)
• Pink Gold (Rose Gold)
• Black (Black)
• Bronze (Brown)
• A metalic blue, red, or purple (the three colors not yet used)

Went back and read it. My issue with the idea of the Wing Cap as an alternate costume is that it's about as different as PAC-Man's alternate costumes; not very. It's probably doable, but a bit boring, and probably not ideal for telling different Metal Marios apart.

rereads previous statement

Oh, uh. OK. It seems my brain doesn't work right now. I can't even form an opinion on it. lol

As for the Vanish Cap being a move for Metal Mario. It would depend on the execution, but it could be interesting. Heh, he could actually be legitimately scary with a move like that since you'd be able to know he's moving by his loud footsteps, but not know where.

My thought was Vanish Cap is a "dodge animation". Mostly so it works as intended, but without it being broken.

Those colors are nice. I only spoke of another idea of the Wing Cap, where it would actually exist perhaps as something unique to Metal Mario having the Metal Box. He can hold the jump button to float down slower than normal, akin to the Parasol. Though that was in conjunction with him shooting out of a Cannon as a new Up B, where he goes pretty far, but he also has a huge weight and drops like a brick, so it evens out a bit. Also, oof, Pink Gold. XD

Wing Cap flight with light gliding(the only time he doesn't drop as a brick) similar to Pit's Up B is another option. I think basing him around Caps and Items might be a good way to separate him a little from Mario. We don't have a Mario character based around items yet. Toad is also a good option for that, mind you.

 

[Technomage]

• Pink Gold (Rose Gold)

Oooh, you said it! Shall I tell Nathaniel Bandy?

 

[Knight Dude]

Oh yeah like that's enough compared to a roster of 80+ characters.

Also remember PSASBR? That was totes a Smash Killer right?

This is a Smash clone with even less characters then Melee had and not to mention graphics especially given this day of age.

Being able to play people consistently and from very far away is very important for fighting games in the current age, especially when considering the pandemic. So at the very least, a good implementation of rollback does make Smash look weak by comparison, unless Namco gets their act together to make an honest improvement.

The graphics are sub-par because it was given a seemingly modest budget. So obviously a AAA game like Smash has it beat there, not much to debate.

Most of Nick's music is also sub-par, so Smash has another advantage there. In both Quality and Quantity.

Smash also has more modes and a stage builder, so obviously another advantage.

Smash does have 80 plus characters, but it used Smash 4 as a base and has clones/echoes. 20 seemingly none-clones is fairly average. Even a team game like MVC3 had less than 40 on launch. DBFZ barely scraped past 20 on launch and that game is more graphically impressive than their Smash or NASB. I think this context of building off of a base can't be ignored.

PSASBR didn't really appeal to the competitive market like it wanted to. This games seems to be doing so though, as its mechanically more in line with Melee. While NASB has the backing of the Slap City devs, an indie title people got attached to. And PSASBR was also criticized pretty much frame 1 for even existing at the time.

Each game has its advantages and disadvantages. And each appeals to different groups of people, granted probably with a lot of overlap.

Granted I'll probably like both games, and the devs themselves aren't setting out to make a "Smash Killer" almost no dev tries to do that. See the amount of times "Halo Killer" or "Zelda Killer" were thrown around to games that didn't try to do that. That's just marketing and the pettiness of fanbases. Honestly, I think the launch roster is fairly solid, just not perfect. I feel like you're only calling the roster sub-par because the Angry Beavers aren't in it yet. I would've liked El Tigre, but it is what it is.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

My thought was Vanish Cap is a "dodge animation". Mostly so it works as intended, but without it being broken.

immediately imagines his backward dodge roll having him putting on the cap and moon walking backward

I love this.

I only spoke of another idea of the Wing Cap, where it would actually exist perhaps as something unique to Metal Mario having the Metal Box. He can hold the jump button to float down slower than normal, akin to the Parasol. Though that was in conjunction with him shooting out of a Cannon as a new Up B, where he goes pretty far, but he also has a huge weight and drops like a brick, so it evens out a bit.

Instead of becoming metal, the Metal Box gives him the Wing Cap? I think that would be neat, especially since he wouldn't actually get much use out of the Metal Box's usual properties.

Wing Cap flight with light gliding(the only time he doesn't drop as a brick) similar to Pit's Up B is another option. I think basing him around Caps and Items might be a good way to separate him a little from Mario. We don't have a Mario character based around items yet. Toad is also a good option for that, mind you.

Well, as an Echo Fighter, I think the huge weight and fall speed increase alongside the stuff you change in order to balance that out would be sufficient since Echo Fighters are supposed to be super derivative. However, if we were to push it further, giving him Super Mario 64 specific stuff like the cannon, caps, and Koopa Shell riding would be neat too.

I low key kind of want to see him get a cape equivalent where he just decks you with a metal sheet. Both hands, just THWACK!

Oooh, you said it! Shall I tell Nathaniel Bandy?

I love how his entire legacy is just how he gets triggered by Pink Gold Peach.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

Good afternoon everyone! How is my favorite Smash Bros. focused forum www.Smashboards.com on this fine da-

July 30th 4chan comment https://arch.b4k.co/v/thread/565589861/#565642448

wha

Old news by now. We've been discussing this since early this morning.

WHA HUH

I refuse to believe, but I want to so much

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I refuse to believe, but I want to so much

It has sense been written off due to the fact that it was reposted at a much later date, implying that whoever made the "leak" is just clout chasing.

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

It has sense been written off due to the fact that it was reposted at a much later date, implying that whoever made the "leak" is just clout chasing.

Or perhaps it's just obsessive Smash fans being obsessive and retroactively checking leaks for possibly correct information. This has happened multiple times in speculation before (and there have been a good couple of calls for people to do so here lol).

Granted, it's almost undoubtedly fake, but it's interesting nonetheless.