Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[FreeFox]

So I have a theory I want to share. This theory could be kind of a stretch since it does kind of involve going against Official Statements, but I have my reasons why
---------------------
I have a theory on how despite Sakurai saying we only have one character left (CP11), that we can still get a Bonus Fighter of Some kind.

It's pretty simple theory, They are going to make the Presence of a Bonus Fighter seem like a "Recent Development" due to the Popularity of Fighter Pass 2.

Pretty much, While Internally the avenue of there being a Bonus Fighter was already a known thing among the Developers, In Public, they are going to have a Bonus Fighter for FP2 as a Direct Result of the response to Fighter Pass 2. Pretty Much Sakurai will "Make an Exception" to FP2 being it because the Support was so great. This will do certain things

-It's Really good PR, having the Fans be the reason that we get more content than intially expected. People love that
-It Adds more Value to the Fighter Pass 2. This would especially be useful as FP2 Concludes near the Holiday season (especially if there is Bonus in line). People will be getting more Switches, which means more Copies of Smash sold, and by Proxy more DLC
-Even if Separate, I Imagine if it's a characters many people want, It will sell good amount as Individual DLC, enough to be considered worth developing after the Initial FP2

I understand that Sakurai has been adamant about the prospect of there only being the 6 Fighters in FP2 before the continuous Development ends, However there's been things said in the past, that if we figure the usual Internal Development of characters, can't really be true

Masahiro Sakurai Explains Why Mewtwo Isn't Paid DLC in Smash Bros. - Nintendo Life

This Article had Sakurai saying that no Paid DLC was in Development. However Considering how quick they were able to Make Lucas, Roy, and Ryu after the Release of Ryu (Including Showing off Lucas, when Mewtwo got his Trailer), and also the avenue of Data relating to Addition of Bayonetta in the update of Mewtwo's Release, there's no way in that short timespan they went from No Planned DLC to being able to so quickly show off some of the further DLC we got

And the Whole Bayonetta situation is a different matter entirely. While I'm sure Bayonetta actually did well on the Ballot, There Early Data placements as well as general timeline of negotiating and developing characters doesn't allow Bayonetta to have been directly chosen from the Ballot

So these situations have shown to have had somewhat of a Plot twist after the fact. What I will say is that I think Sakurai has been more adamant about there being only 1 character currently than any statement made in the Past that seemed to have been Contradicted. That's why I still think this theory is kind of a stretch because Sakuai's statements have been especially strong this time

For why a Bonus Fighter wasn't intially shown at the Beginning, the whole point is that it's a Bonus, which means it doesn't take priority over the Development of the Main content, which is Fighter Pass 2.

If there were to be a Bonus character, I Imagine since it wasn't apart of the initial FP2, it's one that Nintendo has full access to, as well as not needing the extra Supplements like Music and Stages. I have a certain character in mind

Which character do you have in mind?

On this note, what puzzle game characters would you all like? I don't play puzzle games often, but I do have a few ideas:

• Chell (Portal)
• The Survivors (We Were Here)
  • Not sure if this is what they were called if they were called anything.
• Arle (Puyo Puyo)
  • Haven't played this one, but I know of it from speculation.
• Professor Layton (Professor Layton)
  • Same deal as Arle.
• Something from PAD (Puzzled and Dragons)
  • It's kind of a gacha game so I'm not too keen on a character from this.

Well, I am a big fan of the genre. That is also something I like about the RE series even if it isnt exactly the main point of the game.
There are a couple of puzzle game characters I would love to see as assist trophies.
-UFO: From Part Time UFO
-Qbby: Box Boy

And here are a couple of Spirits:
-Tim: Braid
-Minesweepers

 

[MamaLuigi123456]

Since when was there a narrative that Dr. Mario was stopping other puzzle game characters from being included just because he himself is from a puzzle game? Ignoring the fact he's simply a clone and thus is super simple to include, have we forgotten the myriad of platformer and RPG characters that have been included yet don't overlap each other that much?

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

#LaytonDeservesRecognition

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I mean
If you wanna talk monumental puzzle games..
Candy Crush is right there.

Considering the company that made it tried to copyright the word "candy", I feel like the game would be hard to get. lol

Does Candy Crush have any characters or is it just the candies?

Since when was there a narrative that Dr. Mario was stopping other puzzle game characters from being included just because he himself is from a puzzle game?

There isn't one. The argument that was presented is that Dr. Mario represents one type of puzzle game, so the next puzzle game character should be one that represents something else within the genre.

 

[SKX31]

I mean... Puyo Puyo is, what, 20~25 years older than Candy Crush? Sure, Matching isn't the only genre of puzzles, but it is one of the most popular ones.

And hoo boy, if you think Puyo is too simple or uninteresting because of that, well...

Competitive Puyo relies heavily on setups - to such an extreme that it can be hard for someone on the outside to even understand what the hell is going on. That alone would make for a very interesting puzzle rep, I assureyou.

Now that takes a ****ton of confidence to pull off. Not only waiting for just the right moment to detonate the set up, but also reading the others and knowing they won't defeat him / her first. Kudos to the one who pulled that off.

Considering the company that made it tried to copyright the word "candy", I feel like the game would be hard to get. lol

Does Candy Crush have any characters or is it just the candies?

Yeah - Candy Crush has a surprising number of characters. Tiffi is the main protagonist and the "face" of the franchise. One example to prove the point is Washington Post's article on the 10 most influential games of the 2010s, where she symbolizes Candy Crush:

Here's the link.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Does Candy Crush have any characters or is it just the candies?

Yes.

Characters

For the list of all characters, see here. Characters are a main feature in Candy Crush Soda Saga and appear in every episode of the game. There are multiple characters that players will meet throughout their quest of finding Tiffi. The following are a few, major, and recurring characters. On the...

candycrushsoda.fandom.com

Tiffi and Kimmy are the main protagonists, if you will.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

-Minesweepers

The Microsoft rep we need:

 

[GilTheGreat19]

The Microsoft rep we need:
View attachment 325013

That darn bomb(erman)

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

There is no way to do perfect puzzle representation. Its one of those catch all genres.

Layton or even Phoenix could fit as a rep for Riddle style puzzles, but Poyo Poyo or Tetris would work for grid puzzles.

As for Doctor Mario being a grid puzzle rep and therefore the next should be from a different style of puzzle. That doesn’t make much sense. Deciding reps based off a checklist has never been how Smash operates. And Dr. Mario isn’t exactly the most flattering representation, lets be honest.

This all just sounds like a rehash of the Deserving argument imo.

 

[cj.]

Honestly, I'd be fine with any puzzle character taking a small step into the Smash puddle for now, be it Arle, Layton, Captain Toad, or maybe even Lip.

It's crazy that we've been 5/6 Smash games in, and even Tetris is barely acknowledged outside of some spirits and couple old Brawl remixes. I'm not saying give it a character, but at least a Stage or Assist Trophy would be nice...

Heck I'm not sure if Sakurai ever even acknowledged his very own Meteos game in any Smash game outside of some vague reference with some Subspace enemy...

I feel even more surprising that we don't have any representation of Space Invaders or Asteroids.

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

Scrapped Wii "Bulletin Board Channel" Uncovered In Nintendo Gigaleak.

Scrapped Wii "Bulletin Board Channel" Uncovered In Nintendo Gigaleak https://t.co/EEiAi90dlX #Repost #Nintendo #Wii pic.twitter.com/RizshrfcnV

— Nintendo Life (@nintendolife) July 31, 2021

Me, who grew up with a Nintendo Wii and finds this interesting:

 

[Rie Sonomura]

There is no way to do perfect puzzle representation. Its one of those catch all genres.

Layton or even Phoenix could fit as a rep for Riddle style puzzles, but Poyo Poyo or Tetris would work for grid puzzles.

As for Doctor Mario being a grid puzzle rep and therefore by the next should be from a different style of puzzle. That doesn’t make much sense. Deciding reps based off a checklist has never been how Smash operates. And Dr. Mario isn’t exactly the most flattering representation, lets be honest.

This all just sounds like a rehash of the Deserving argument imo.

Poyo Poyo

didn’t know Kirby already met Arle

 

[The Rhythm Theif]

didn’t know Kirby already met Arle

How else did Kirby's Avalanche get onto the SNES?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Professor Layton isn't even what's typically considered a puzzle game.

It's a Visual Novel. Like Ace Attorney. It's why they crossed over. Their gameplay structures are incredibly similar.

It's like calling The Legend of Zelda or Resident Evil a puzzle game because they have lots of puzzles.

 

[Idon]

Professor Layton isn't even what's typically considered a puzzle game.

It... it isn't?

It's literally just a collection of various puzzles loosely tied together by an overarching plot. There's no combat or traversal or strategy elements, just hundreds of puzzles.

If that's not a puzzle game, I really don't know what is.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

It... it isn't?

It's literally just a collection of various puzzles loosely tied together by an overarching plot. There's no combat or traversal or strategy elements, just hundreds of puzzles.

If that's not a puzzle game, I really don't know what is.

The gameplay structure is just like a visual novel I'd say. You explore areas, talk to people, comb the environment and yes do puzzles all while going from screen to screen.

And well more personally, when you think of puzzle games as a genre, most people instantly jump to Tetris or Puyo Puyo. Those kinds of games have been the standard of the genre for decades.

 

[Curious Villager]

The gameplay structure is just like a visual novel I'd say. You explore areas, talk to people, comb the environment and yes do puzzles all while going from screen to screen.

I mean, if you consider that a Visual Novel, then shouldn't most games with a basic narrative, especially JRPG's be considered Visual Novels too, since you tend to do a lot of exploring and talking to various NPC's there too?

I personally always considered Layton to be more of a Puzzle Adventure series, more than anything..

 

[3BitSaurus]

View attachment 325001
Puyo Puyo scares me

Now that takes a ****ton of confidence to pull off. Not only waiting for just the right moment to detonate the set up, but also reading the others and knowing they won't defeat him / her first. Kudos to the one who pulled that off.

I'm telling you, competitve puzzle games can be wild.

Remember Invisible Tetris? That mode where the pieces disappear when they hit the bottom and you gotta memorize their position?

didn’t know Kirby already met Arle

I mean... she calls Carbuncle "Carby" in the localizations already.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The odd thing about Visual Novels is sometimes they're more of a medium than a genre alone(can't it be... both?). And sometimes they can be part of two genres at once. Layton being a Puzzle-based Visual Novel seems like a logical way to look at it to me. Nothing weird about that.

But not ever game is dedicated to a single genre, so. There's more than one it can be.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I mean, if you consider that a Visual Novel, then shouldn't most games with a basic narrative, especially JRPG's be considered Visual Novels too, since you tend to do a lot of exploring and talking to various NPC's there too?

I personally always considered Layton to be more of a Puzzle Adventure series, more than anything..

Well no. The screen to screen aspect is indicative of Visual Novels I'd say. JRPGs dont really have that aspect.

I could see Layton being an Adventure game though, like Monkey Island.

But then that brings a new question. Are old style adventure games visual novels?

 

[Curious Villager]

Well no. The screen to screen aspect is indicative of Visual Novels I'd say. JRPGs dont really have that aspect.

I could see Layton being an Adventure game though, like Monkey Island.

But then that brings a new question. Are old style adventure games visual novels?

Depends, are talking about the point and click ones such as the Junior Adventure games like the Humongous Entertainment ones (Putt Putt, Pajama Sam, Spy Fox etc?) Those are adventure games I'm pretty sure, they have a similar kind of screen to screen point and click exploration aspect to them and all..

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Depends, are talking about the point and click ones such as the Junior Adventure games like the Humongous Entertainment ones (Putt Putt, Pajama Sam, Spy Fox etc?) Those are adventure games I'm pretty sure, they have a similar kind of screen to screen point and click exploration aspect to them and all..

Yes, those were the kind I was referring to.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Guys, I've cracked the code. This is our final fighter:

Spoiler: Spoilers for the final fighter

 

[GalacticPetey]

My only question with the Arle and Layton debate is why does it matter if one represents the puzzle genre better? Shouldn't the focus be more on the actual characters themselves? I'm sure there are characters who could represent other genres like RPGs or shooters "better", whatever that means, than characters currently on the roster, but why should that be a factor in the character getting in? The genre the character comes from ends up mattering little once they're in Smash because it's a fighting game.

Like is it cool to have a wide variety of genres represented? Sure! But viewing characters through the lens of being "reps" for certain genres, companies, etc just feels weird and arbitrary. Both Layton and Arle would be cool additions, but I don't want either because I feel like there's a lack of puzzle game characters, I want them because I think they're cool characters that would make people happy.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I've been playing the most recent Professor Layton and It's honestly annoying the **** out of it.

There's just soooo much ****ing twee dialog between puzzles.

I don't remember it being this bad in the early Layton game's, but I could be misremembering. I remember it being like, Go to a new screen, talk to someone, there's also like 2-3 puzzles on that screen. This is like the opposite of that. Go to new screen, talk to 2-3 people, and there's 1 puzzle there, if you're lucky.

 

[Sucumbio]

I can see Tetris character. A block that transforms, hails pieces from the sky, ooo actually that's his recovery! Up b and he teleports vertically then free falls but like a Tetris piece... Hmmmmm

 

[SKX31]

Professor Layton isn't even what's typically considered a puzzle game.

It's a Visual Novel. Like Ace Attorney. It's why they crossed over. Their gameplay structures are incredibly similar.

It's like calling The Legend of Zelda or Resident Evil a puzzle game because they have lots of puzzles.

It... it isn't?

It's literally just a collection of various puzzles loosely tied together by an overarching plot. There's no combat or traversal or strategy elements, just hundreds of puzzles.

If that's not a puzzle game, I really don't know what is.

The odd thing about Visual Novels is sometimes they're more of a medium than a genre alone(can't it be... both?). And sometimes they can be part of two genres at once. Layton being a Puzzle-based Visual Novel seems like a logical way to look at it to me. Nothing weird about that.

But not ever game is dedicated to a single genre, so. There's more than one it can be.

One can certainly consider it a combination of the two genres, although the exact definition hinges on what one prioritizes. The official site for the DS games (which seems to be borked) uses both "puzzle" and "adventure" a lot (leading to Wikipedia calling it a "puzzle adventure"). Likewise, Nintendo's hub for the series asks:

Looking for puzzling adventures, crafty conundrums and baffling brainteasers?

Sure, visual novel is technically not included in the "puzzle adventure" moniker, but VNs are not really considered much of a genre in . Kotaro Uchikoshi, who's heavily involved in the genre, explained in a 2013 interview:

"The visual novel term does not really represent the genre in Japan. This is accepted as the genre and regarded as the genre outside of Japan, overseas. In Japan people think about it as... We have the adventure game, we have the sound novel, and we have the bishoujo genre. But there is no visual novel per say. With me personally, when I made 999, and Virtue's Last Reward, these are not referred to as visual novels, they're referred to as actual adventure games. Whereas overseas they're refereed to as visual novels. But in Japan, we don't really make that distinction [between visual novels and adventure games]"

While I don't have the book this interview is in (The Untold History of Japanese Game Developers), there's a corroborating interview by Jiro Ishii, available here (in Japanese). Ishii does not use "visual novel" as a term, but instead "adventure" titles divided into two categories:

1. Command-based titles where the player character is directly controlled and usually require puzzle solving. (here's Layton).
2. Novel-type titles where player interaction is minimal and there's little gameplay challenge - the story's entirely in focus.

With the divisions Uchikoshi talked about being presumably about the target audience (which is presumably why the bishoujo is a separate category).

So yes, Layton's both a puzzle and a VN / adventure. The second best selling series it appears:

... On second thought, screw everything. Obviously the first VN rep in Smash should be from JB Harold Murder Club because it's the clearly most iconic adventure / VN.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

This final character is as much as an enigma as Byleth at this point and like we saw with Byleth that can be a good thing or a bad thing depending per person.

 

[GilTheGreat19]

OK I got one
Why worry about the stage elect screen, music select screen, and echo fighter non-separated character select screen being perfect...

When the final fighter is a perfect square itself?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

When the final fighter is a perfect square itself?

Pushes up glasses "Um, actually, Box Boy has rounded edges so he isn't a perfect square shape, and furthermore, the closes Super Smash Bros. has to an actual perfect square is Dr. Kawashima's Assist Trophy numbers."

 

[GilTheGreat19]

Pushes up glasses "Um, actually, Box Boy has rounded edges so he isn't a perfect square shape, and furthermore, the closes Super Smash Bros. has to an actual perfect square is Dr. Kawashima's Assist Trophy numbers."

As someone who wears glasses IRL
I classify this as a bruh moment

Do YOU wear glasses IRL?

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

My only question with the Arle and Layton debate is why does it matter if one represents the puzzle genre better? Shouldn't the focus be more on the actual characters themselves? I'm sure there are characters who could represent other genres like RPGs or shooters "better", whatever that means, than characters currently on the roster, but why should that be a factor in the character getting in? The genre the character comes from ends up mattering little once they're in Smash because it's a fighting game.

Like is it cool to have a wide variety of genres represented? Sure! But viewing characters through the lens of being "reps" for certain genres, companies, etc just feels weird and arbitrary. Both Layton and Arle would be cool additions, but I don't want either because I feel like there's a lack of puzzle game characters, I want them because I think they're cool characters that would make people happy.

It's important to remember that a person has a specific reason they want a character in sometimes. Some want them due to what they represent. Some just like the character alone. It completely varies.

Many know I'm a huge fan of Brian. I like the character, but he's a JRPG and I like what he can bring. He has like zero personality, and other than being a cute 10 year old who fights with a stick and magic, he doesn't stand out among far more popular characters. So what he can bring as a moveset and to the genre is what makes him interesting to me. I like stuff like RNG in RPG's because it makes every playthrough unique, and while story is nice, I want it interactive and interesting, but it doesn't need to be every single time. Sometimes it goes over my head. I like that there's sometimes more lore that isn't beyond delved into cause it piques my imagination. Etc.

So basically? It varies for everyone and there's no wrong answer. I mean, the closest to a wrong one is "to spite other people" if you really need to look for one. But that's a problem with people's attitude and fan wars, not with a character being liked alone.

 

[Theguy123]

I've been playing the most recent Professor Layton and It's honestly annoying the **** out of it.

There's just soooo much ****ing twee dialog between puzzles.

I don't remember it being this bad in the early Layton game's, but I could be misremembering. I remember it being like, Go to a new screen, talk to someone, there's also like 2-3 puzzles on that screen. This is like the opposite of that. Go to new screen, talk to 2-3 people, and there's 1 puzzle there, if you're lucky.

yeah I’d recommend not playing the lady Layton game. Was tuned down to try and appeal to women more and it literally gets rid of the majority of things that made the original trilogy and the 2nd trilogy great.

 

[Dan Quixote]

The earlier discussion about puzzle games and visual novels is just more proof to me that genres are fake

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As someone who wears glasses IRL
I classify this as a bruh moment

Do YOU wear glasses IRL?

...I think you misinterpreted the joke there.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Guys, I've cracked the code. This is our final fighter:

Spoiler: Spoilers for the final fighter

View attachment 325017

NOT THE ANIME FGC REP WE NEED
BUT THE ANIME FGC REP WE DESERVE

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

NOT THE ANIME FGC REP WE NEED
BUT THE ANIME FGC REP WE DESERVE

The best part is it gets funnier the more you think about it. Blitztank has no real appendages, so it would probably have to grab the ledge with it's main cannon and tank treads. So it would just...stick straight out. And also, basically any attack that hits small opponents would be able to hit it off the ledge once it's ledge invincibility runs out. Also it would simultaneously have the largest shield size and be the easiest to shield poke.

And then of course Snake can put it in a choke hold because logic.

 

[TCT~Phantom]

So, I was binging some Alternate History Hub, and I figured I would propose to y'all a fun alternative gaming scenario.

What if Nintendo bought Sega?

For context, this scenario is not too much out of the question. In 2000, Sega was going through its huge identity crisis with their hardware under preforming, there were considerations to sell the company to Microsoft. If this were to happen, two things would need to occur. Nintendo would have to smell blood in the water and end up approaching Sega for the deal. If Nintendo did approach Sega in their darkest hour, some potential deal would have been at least on the table in some way, shape or form. There were also talks of a merger in 2003 with Sammy before Sammy decided to become the majority shareholder. Now obviously, this stuff may end up super messy. I also want to stress that Nintendo, at least at the time where this merger was viable, was not known for mergers or acquisitions. Even if they did see the opportunity, Nintendo could have easily just ignored the opportunity and just moved on. But that's no fun, so what if they did not?

A Dream Casted away

If this deal was to be made, one thing that Sega likely would have pursued is that there be some sort of life jacket to Dreamcast adopters. If Nintendo did decide to indulge Sega on this, this could have gone a few ways. First off, they could have pushed the idea off to their next console and included the Dreamcast programming and software in the Wii. They could have added an adapter to the Gamecube to let it play Dreamcast games. They could have made and alternative gamecube model that played both. Sega did wish for the Xbox at one point to be Dreamcast compatible, so the idea is not that far off.

A different Sonic

If Nintendo owned Sega, that means that as a result, the blue blur ends up being owned by Nintendo. I will discuss some other Sega franchises, but Sonic is interesting not only due to how big he is, but how his modern identity is defined by failure. The Adventure formula was formally retired after 06 bombed. Ever since then, the Sonic brand has always been shifting around, trying to find an identity that works for it.

In this timeline, Sonic is now under Nintendo's control. Does that mean that Sonic Team makes only amazing Sonic games? No. But it would likely mean there is a much stronger mandate on what they can do with Sonic. Nintendo has always leaned conservative on how they handle their core franchises. While there are exceptions like BotW, most of the time Nintendo is more comfortable sticking to a tried and true format. Even when they do deviate, such as with Skyward Sword or Mario Odyssey, there is still a lot of the old foundation that they drew upon originally. In this timeline, Sonic likely ends up sticking to what he was known for in 2001: The Adventure Formula and the Genesis Formula. As such, we end up with a more reigned in Sonic of sorts.

One thing that changes though is that Sonic is not as invested in its fan community. Things like Mania, the Sonic CD port, or the Sonic Mobile ports made by Christian Whitehead would not exist. Nintendo also would probably look at sonic modding with a lot more resistance than Sega does. Sega openly encourages their fans to mod sonic and express themselves. Nintendo...well, their history with mods is very tenuous to this day.

The other Sega franchises

Speculating on what franchises that Nintendo would push forward from Sega is a little hard, but there are a few camps they can go in. First, what is doing well at the time. In this camp, Phantasy Star and Crazy Taxi are solid picks. They both are popular series that had big releases on the Dreamcast. PSO being such a big title in its day would likely mean Nintendo adopts it in particular. The next category is where Nintendo plays favorites. Nights is one of Miyamoto's favorite games, so I could see us getting some more Nights love. Finally, you have the easiest department to look at: games that were coming to the Gamecube and did well. Monkey Ball and Puyo Puyo stick out. They both did well on the Gamecube, and likely would have done even better with Nintendo actively pushing them.

Also, as a minor addendum after discussing with GoodGrief741 , but F Zero would now have a dedicated in house team after F Zero GX, so it might not die in this timeline.

Sega's Past Properties

So Sega has an extensive backlog that can be looked at for Nintendo to use. On the Virtual Console, the real question is Saturn stuff. Saturn Emulation is a bit finnicky to this day, but so is N64 emulation and Nintendo made that work on VC. Likely, most of the Saturn's big titles would be put on the VC, including some of the Japanese titles. This puts the Saturn in a bit of a fun spot, where it gets a bit more of a second glance from people. I could see people pushing Nintendo to remake or release Panzer Dragoon Saga in this timeline, so long as the source code is not lost in this timeline. Likely, much as we are clammoring for Nintendo do do things with Golden Sun, Donkey Kong, or F Zero in this timeline, perhaps there is more of a demand that Shining Force or Burning Rangers or even some of the Dreamcast's library gets some love. Heck, Nintendo might even see enough value and put the Sega CD on VC.

Pushing forwards from VC, likely Sega's properties end up lumped into the same sort of use by Nintendo that their old catalog does. They end up protective of roms and emulation, they trickle them out on Nintendo Online, with Sega Genesis Online being a big announcement they end up making for the Switch at some point.

Atlus at last?

Sega did end up purchasing Atlus in September of 2013. Now, we could say that Nintendo does not enter the bidding war for Atlus in 2013, but given that they made a far larger acquisition in this what if already and they were in an open collaboration with Altus at this point with SMT X FE, I am gonna say that we do get a Nintendo Atlus acquisition. What does this change? Not much to be honest.

The vast majority of Atlus' properties at the time were either in development or already coming to the 3DS. Likely what would happen is that Nintendo would either delay the Altus games that were in production to be shifted to Nintendo systems, or they would simply push that everything that was not already in development at that point would be a Switch exclusive from that point onward. Persona 5 imo is probably the cut off title of what we could consider in development prior to the buyout. Should Nintendo acquire them, Persona 5 might have been a day 1 switch port similar to Breath of the Wild.

Smash Bros

Now to tie it into this website, we got Smash. One thing that might be worth discussing is the impact of Sega being a first party. Does this mean that third parties are more scarce? Probably not. Mega Man was still one of the most requested characters of all time, if Namco developed the game they would probably end up getting Pac Man in anyway, and Snake already opened the floodgates for guest characters. I do not think that in this timeline, Sonic not being a guest character would stop third parties from being a thing.

One important thing that does change is that Sonic almost certainly is on the initial project proposal. Sonic was notably a last minute addition to Brawl do to negotiations being difficult, but with Nintendo owning him he would be one of the first characters in Brawl. I doubt that he would end up in Melee however. While the timeline might allow it to work, it would still be tight given that this deal would likely close out too late into Melee's development that Sonic would narrowly miss his chance. But for Brawl, he is a lock. Sonic's treatment likely would also be different in Smash. We likely would see far more Sonic content, given that Nintendo would own him. We would probably see mountains of support for Tails and Eggman for future Smash games, even more than in our own timeline. Shadow might be Sonic's echo fighter, who knows.

In terms of what other Sega franchises end up in Smash, that depends on what Nintendo and Sega are pushing forward at the time, or what Sakurai sees value in adding. The two I am the most confident in are Puyo Puyo and Phantasy Star. We likely would end up with Alis and Arle by Smash Ultimate in this timeline. With Persona now under Nintendo's umbrella and P5 being a switch launch title, we likely still get Joker. Outside of those three and the Sonic games, it gets harder to say who would be chosen. We are dealing with a what if that has a lot of asterisks and question marks already. Maybe in this alternative timeline, Nights is one of the never evers that people push for and he makes a comeback in Smash. Maybe some Genesis era characters or franchises like Comix Zone or Kid Chameleon end up becoming popular for Smash. It really is impossible to know.

But that's just my gut assumptions of what would happen, what do you all think?

 

[Cutie Gwen]

The best part is it gets funnier the more you think about it. Blitztank has no real appendages, so it would probably have to grab the ledge with it's main cannon and tank treads. So it would just...stick straight out. And also, basically any attack that hits small opponents would be able to hit it off the ledge once it's ledge invincibility runs out. Also it would simultaneously have the largest shield size and be the easiest to shield poke.

And then of course Snake can put it in a choke hold because logic.

But Smaash Pup... That's the best part

For real that **** was so hype I'd have bought BBTag had it not been for Senran Kagura

 

[Speed Weed]

So, I was binging some Alternate History Hub, and I figured I would propose to y'all a fun alternative gaming scenario.

What if Nintendo bought Sega?

For context, this scenario is not too much out of the question. In 2000, Sega was going through its huge identity crisis with their hardware under preforming, there were considerations to sell the company to Microsoft. If this were to happen, two things would need to occur. Nintendo would have to smell blood in the water and end up approaching Sega for the deal. If Nintendo did approach Sega in their darkest hour, some potential deal would have been at least on the table in some way, shape or form. There were also talks of a merger in 2003 with Sammy before Sammy decided to become the majority shareholder. Now obviously, this stuff may end up super messy. I also want to stress that Nintendo, at least at the time where this merger was viable, was not known for mergers or acquisitions. Even if they did see the opportunity, Nintendo could have easily just ignored the opportunity and just moved on. But that's no fun, so what if they did not?

A Dream Casted away

If this deal was to be made, one thing that Sega likely would have pursued is that there be some sort of life jacket to Dreamcast adopters. If Nintendo did decide to indulge Sega on this, this could have gone a few ways. First off, they could have pushed the idea off to their next console and included the Dreamcast programming and software in the Wii. They could have added an adapter to the Gamecube to let it play Dreamcast games. They could have made and alternative gamecube model that played both. Sega did wish for the Xbox at one point to be Dreamcast compatible, so the idea is not that far off.

A different Sonic

If Nintendo owned Sega, that means that as a result, the blue blur ends up being owned by Nintendo. I will discuss some other Sega franchises, but Sonic is interesting not only due to how big he is, but how his modern identity is defined by failure. The Adventure formula was formally retired after 06 bombed. Ever since then, the Sonic brand has always been shifting around, trying to find an identity that works for it.

In this timeline, Sonic is now under Nintendo's control. Does that mean that Sonic Team makes only amazing Sonic games? No. But it would likely mean there is a much stronger mandate on what they can do with Sonic. Nintendo has always leaned conservative on how they handle their core franchises. While there are exceptions like BotW, most of the time Nintendo is more comfortable sticking to a tried and true format. Even when they do deviate, such as with Skyward Sword or Mario Odyssey, there is still a lot of the old foundation that they drew upon originally. In this timeline, Sonic likely ends up sticking to what he was known for in 2001: The Adventure Formula and the Genesis Formula. As such, we end up with a more reigned in Sonic of sorts.

One thing that changes though is that Sonic is not as invested in its fan community. Things like Mania, the Sonic CD port, or the Sonic Mobile ports made by Christian Whitehead would not exist. Nintendo also would probably look at sonic modding with a lot more resistance than Sega does. Sega openly encourages their fans to mod sonic and express themselves. Nintendo...well, their history with mods is very tenuous to this day.

The other Sega franchises

Speculating on what franchises that Nintendo would push forward from Sega is a little hard, but there are a few camps they can go in. First, what is doing well at the time. In this camp, Phantasy Star and Crazy Taxi are solid picks. They both are popular series that had big releases on the Dreamcast. PSO being such a big title in its day would likely mean Nintendo adopts it in particular. The next category is where Nintendo plays favorites. Nights is one of Miyamoto's favorite games, so I could see us getting some more Nights love. Finally, you have the easiest department to look at: games that were coming to the Gamecube and did well. Monkey Ball and Puyo Puyo stick out. They both did well on the Gamecube, and likely would have done even better with Nintendo actively pushing them.

Also, as a minor addendum after discussing with GoodGrief741 , but F Zero would now have a dedicated in house team after F Zero GX, so it might not die in this timeline.

Sega's Past Properties

So Sega has an extensive backlog that can be looked at for Nintendo to use. On the Virtual Console, the real question is Saturn stuff. Saturn Emulation is a bit finnicky to this day, but so is N64 emulation and Nintendo made that work on VC. Likely, most of the Saturn's big titles would be put on the VC, including some of the Japanese titles. This puts the Saturn in a bit of a fun spot, where it gets a bit more of a second glance from people. I could see people pushing Nintendo to remake or release Panzer Dragoon Saga in this timeline, so long as the source code is not lost in this timeline. Likely, much as we are clammoring for Nintendo do do things with Golden Sun, Donkey Kong, or F Zero in this timeline, perhaps there is more of a demand that Shining Force or Burning Rangers or even some of the Dreamcast's library gets some love. Heck, Nintendo might even see enough value and put the Sega CD on VC.

Pushing forwards from VC, likely Sega's properties end up lumped into the same sort of use by Nintendo that their old catalog does. They end up protective of roms and emulation, they trickle them out on Nintendo Online, with Sega Genesis Online being a big announcement they end up making for the Switch at some point.

Atlus at last?

Sega did end up purchasing Atlus in September of 2013. Now, we could say that Nintendo does not enter the bidding war for Atlus in 2013, but given that they made a far larger acquisition in this what if already and they were in an open collaboration with Altus at this point with SMT X FE, I am gonna say that we do get a Nintendo Atlus acquisition. What does this change? Not much to be honest.

The vast majority of Atlus' properties at the time were either in development or already coming to the 3DS. Likely what would happen is that Nintendo would either delay the Altus games that were in production to be shifted to Nintendo systems, or they would simply push that everything that was not already in development at that point would be a Switch exclusive from that point onward. Persona 5 imo is probably the cut off title of what we could consider in development prior to the buyout. Should Nintendo acquire them, Persona 5 might have been a day 1 switch port similar to Breath of the Wild.

Smash Bros

Now to tie it into this website, we got Smash. One thing that might be worth discussing is the impact of Sega being a first party. Does this mean that third parties are more scarce? Probably not. Mega Man was still one of the most requested characters of all time, if Namco developed the game they would probably end up getting Pac Man in anyway, and Snake already opened the floodgates for guest characters. I do not think that in this timeline, Sonic not being a guest character would stop third parties from being a thing.

One important thing that does change is that Sonic almost certainly is on the initial project proposal. Sonic was notably a last minute addition to Brawl do to negotiations being difficult, but with Nintendo owning him he would be one of the first characters in Brawl. I doubt that he would end up in Melee however. While the timeline might allow it to work, it would still be tight given that this deal would likely close out too late into Melee's development that Sonic would narrowly miss his chance. But for Brawl, he is a lock. Sonic's treatment likely would also be different in Smash. We likely would see far more Sonic content, given that Nintendo would own him. We would probably see mountains of support for Tails and Eggman for future Smash games, even more than in our own timeline. Shadow might be Sonic's echo fighter, who knows.

In terms of what other Sega franchises end up in Smash, that depends on what Nintendo and Sega are pushing forward at the time, or what Sakurai sees value in adding. The two I am the most confident in are Puyo Puyo and Phantasy Star. We likely would end up with Alis and Arle by Smash Ultimate in this timeline. With Persona now under Nintendo's umbrella and P5 being a switch launch title, we likely still get Joker. Outside of those three and the Sonic games, it gets harder to say who would be chosen. We are dealing with a what if that has a lot of asterisks and question marks already. Maybe in this alternative timeline, Nights is one of the never evers that people push for and he makes a comeback in Smash. Maybe some Genesis era characters or franchises like Comix Zone or Kid Chameleon end up becoming popular for Smash. It really is impossible to know.

But that's just my gut assumptions of what would happen, what do you all think?

This is the timeline where Segata Sanshiro is a popular Smash request so I want it

disclaimer, i actually do not want this timeline at all