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Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

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pupNapoleon

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I never said they're the same series, I said they're part of the broader megami tensei franchise, which Sakurai has also mentioned. Like Mario and Donkey Kong, but not really.

Also, people seem happy with Joker's inclusion, so people might dislike an SMT rep less if they're associated with each other. Unless someone's angry that it's not Yu or Makoto or something (I want Tatsuya, but that's never happening).

I don't think the backlash will be as bad as you think anyway. It definitely won't be as popular as something like Sephiroth, but it's a popular (if a bit niche) series with a lot of history, especially on Nintendo consoles. It'll come with amazing music as well, so as long as they're fun to play as people hopefully won't mind.

Even if people do get upset, I really don't care. The people who get angry with reveals are a toxic part of the fanbase that I ignore, so it won't impact me at all (and if I did see it I wouldn't care. People are entitled to their opinions, if everyone agreed with me it would be boring).
I think people were okay with Joker because 1- he was first, 2- it was a great reveal, 3- it cognitively seemed to open the door.
I don't think the series are big enough to have instilled much greatness, or be seen to warrant 2 characters.
Music is just a bonus for most, to enjoy a character. I cannot imagine a strong overall reaction.


But I am glad it wouldn't hinder you.
 
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Evil Trapezium

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Judging by the archetype spread:
  • Balanced: :ultjoker::ult_terry:(Not entirely certain this is correct)
  • Rush Down: :ultmythra:
  • Zoner: :ulthero::ultbanjokazooie::ultbyleth::ultminmin:ultsteve::ultsephiroth::ultpyra: (EDIT: Actually you could pretty easily argue that Pyra is a heavy)
  • Heavy: :ultkazuya:
They're pretty clearly not really looking to differentiate fighters in this way, so it'll just be a happy coincidence if the last character is fast.
Nah I'd say it's more like this.

All-Rounder: :ultbanjokazooie:
Brawler: :ult_terry::ultkazuya:
Powerhouses: :ulthero::ultpyra:
Rush Down: :ultjoker::ultmythra:
Long ranger: :ultbyleth::ultminmin:ultsephiroth:
Stage Controller: :ultsteve:
 

SNEKeater

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Most characters will get **** anyway at this point with one character left.
Let's say, if we got characters like Arle or Reimu as CP8 or 9, they would get some bad reactions because well, they're not super popular, at least in the West. But if either Arle or Reimu were the last fighter, negative reactions will be amplified considering it's the last character.

That would apply to other characters as well. But characters with less following or that are not big names will have a harder time because most people wants or expects a big hitter.
 

Mushroomguy12

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but that's a fictional series that's based on ff7, not actual ff7. by that logic, final fantasy 7 is canon to our world because bootleg cloud toys exist here too.

there are ways to link the series for real, too. Garnet in steven universe >Garnet in OKKO > Sonic in OKKO > Sonic in Smash > Cloud in Smash.
Funny you say that when there's a Sonic (or should I say Sanic) reference in that gif too. (Along with Pikachu-Moogle and Gitaroo Man).

1626468858046.png
 
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GilTheGreat19

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Most characters will get **** anyway at this point with one character left.
Let's say, if we got characters like Arle or Reimu as CP8 or 9, they would get some bad reactions because well, they're not super popular, at least in the West. But if either Arle or Reimu were the last fighter, negative reactions will be amplified considering it's the last character.

That would apply to other characters as well. But characters with less following or that are not big names will have a harder time because most people wants or expects a big hitter.
Correction:
All characters will get negative feedback of some kind.

But yea, your point still stands correct.
 

Perkilator

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Most characters will get **** anyway at this point with one character left.
Let's say, if we got characters like Arle or Reimu as CP8 or 9, they would get some bad reactions because well, they're not super popular, at least in the West. But if either Arle or Reimu were the last fighter, negative reactions will be amplified considering it's the last character.

That would apply to other characters as well. But characters with less following or that are not big names will have a harder time because most people wants or expects a big hitter.
Unfortunately, yes. Even characters like Crash, Master Chief or Eggman will get some negativity for being the last character when it's not the characters another person wants.
 

UltimateCyborgOverlord

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All this yammering about fictional universes or whatever makes me think of Cleft the Boy Chin Wonder telling Crimson Chin

"Those are REAL fictional people in REAL fictional danger!"

"You MAY be right"

Crimson Chin for Smash man... KA-CHINNNNNN! "I HAVE GOATS IN MY PANTS! I EAT EVIL... FOR BREAKFAST!"
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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Nah I'd say it's more like this.

All-Rounder: :ultbanjokazooie:
Brawler: :ult_terry::ultkazuya:
Powerhouses: :ulthero::ultpyra:
Rush Down: :ultjoker::ultmythra:
Long ranger: :ultbyleth::ultminmin:ultsephiroth:
Stage Controller: :ultsteve:
Well...let me break down my verdicts further:
  • :ultjoker: is fairly aggressive, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was meant to be a rush down character on paper, but in practice, he has qualities from all three archetypes. He can rush you down with his speed, deal a lot of damage and K.O. on stray hits thanks to Arsene, and zone you out with Gun. That's why I consider him a balanced or all-rounder character.
  • :ulthero: likes to stay away for the most part and use Zapple, and Command Selection. When he does use his normals, it tends to be in response to the opponent's approach, and not as a part of Hero's, and all he really gets off of them are MP and a successful "get off me". This is why I consider him a zoner.
  • :ultbanjokazooie: feel like they were supposed to be a balanced character, but in practice, their main gameplan seems to be mid range Grenade Egg setups, with rushing in as a mixup. They're definitely not keepaway characters, but I think they still qualify as mid-range zoners.
  • :ult_terry: isn't someone I can quite peg down, but from what I can tell, he's a character that wants to be in your face, but doesn't have the mobility to be oppressive. He seems to be a decent mix of aggressive and whiff punish gameplay, and I'm not entirely sure where that falls, but my best guess is balanced.
  • :ultbyleth: is your typical swordfighter with a few nuances here and there like how Neutral Aerial is used and his upped juggle game. I don't think anyone would have an issue with that deduction. I classify the swordfighter archetype as mid range zoners.
  • :ultminmin is unambiguously and unapologetically a long ranged zoner.
  • :ultsteve: is what I call a "hit and run" zoner. His game plan is to make you let him mine in peace, and a lot of the stuff he does is either to make approach more difficult, to run away, or punish you for approaching recklessly. It's not really a traditional form of zoning, but I still consider it to be zoning.
  • :ultsephiroth: is a very different variation of the swordfighter, with longer ranged, but more committal pokes being the crux of his game plan.
  • :ultpyra:/:ultmythra: are both have swordfighter hitboxes, which is why I pegged Pyra as a zoner earlier, but the rest of their attributes do have them lean towards the heavy and rush down archetypes respectively. Pyra is the one that straddles the line more, since she has the high damage output of a heavy, but still has the swordfighter style of gameplay where she wants to keep you away with her big hitboxes. I think you could pretty easily argue that she is either, or just both. Mythra on the other hand, is pretty obviously a rush down sort of character.
  • :ultkazuya: has all the trappings of a heavy. Slow mobility and frame data to match, but powerful hits. He doesn't have the tools to zone you out or the frame data to actually rush you down, so his game plan seems to revolve around approaching carefully, and handing you 50% or some other ridiculous number. He's looking to be the best character with this design philosophy, and that excites me.
Does that make more sense?
 
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Evil Trapezium

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Well...let me break down my verdicts further:
  • :ultjoker: is fairly aggressive, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was meant to be a rush down character on paper, but in practice, he has qualities from all three archetypes. He can rush you down with his speed, deal a lot of damage and K.O. on stray hits thanks to Arsene, and zone you out with Gun. That's why I consider him a balanced or all-rounder character.
  • :ulthero: likes to stay away for the most part and use Zapple, and Command Selection. When he does use his normals, it tends to be in response to the opponent's approach, and not as a part of Hero's, and all he really gets off of them are MP and a successful "get off me". This is why I consider him a zoner.
  • :ultbanjokazooie: feel like they were supposed to be a balanced character, but in practice, their main gameplan seems to be mid range Grenade Egg setups, with rushing in as a mixup. They're definitely not keepaway characters, but I think they still qualify as mid-range zoners.
  • :ult_terry: isn't someone I can quite peg down, but from what I can tell, he's a character that wants to be in your face, but doesn't have the mobility to be oppressive. He seems to be a decent mix of aggressive and whiff punish gameplay, and I'm not entirely sure where that falls, but my best guess is balanced.
  • :ultbyleth: is your typical swordfighter with a few nuances here and there like how Neutral Aerial is used and his upped juggle game. I don't think anyone would have an issue with that deduction. I classify the swordfighter archetype as mid range zoners.
  • :ultminmin is unambiguously and apologetically a long ranged zoner.
  • :ultsteve: is what I call a "hit and run" zoner. His game plan is to make you let him mine in peace, and a lot of the stuff he does is either to make approach more difficult, to run away, or punish you for approaching recklessly. It's not really a traditional form of zoning, but I still consider it to be zoning.
  • :ultsephiroth: is a very different variation of the swordfighter, with longer ranged, but more committal pokes being the crux of his game plan.
  • :ultpyra:/:ultmythra: are both have swordfighter hitboxes, which is why I pegged Pyra as a zoner earlier, but the rest of their attributes do have them lean towards the heavy and rush down archetypes respectively. Pyra is the one that straddles the line more, since she has the high damage output of a heavy, but still has the swordfighter style of gameplay where she wants to keep you away with her big hitboxes. I think you could pretty easily argue that she is either, or just both. Mythra on the other hand, is pretty obviously a rush down sort of character.
  • :ultkazuya: has all the trappings of a heavy. Slow mobility and frame data to match, but powerful hits. He doesn't have the tools to zone you out or the frame data to actually rush you down, so his game plan seems to revolve around approaching carefully, and handing you 50% or some other ridiculous number. He's looking to be the best character with this design philosophy, and that excites me.
Does that make more sense?
Yeah I can see what you are talking about. You're viewing them from a competitive standpoint rather than how the characters were designed by the devs which is what I was going for.
 

Inferno7

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What are the chances that the last character will be a speedy character of some sort. We’ve basically got 1 fast character and 6 slow characters In this pass (6 because I count myphra and she’s slow, 5 if you don’t count myphra)
God don't give me hope

Being serious though I have no idea
 

subterrestrial

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im expecting the next character to be a janky trap setup character like pacman or duckhunt

but with dlc gimmicks
 

SKX31

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Nintendo really officially endorsing scalpers and price gouging lol.
The most interesting thing about this is that it came out right now, after years of Nintendo taking a heavily anti-emulator stance and being completely and utterly silent regarding any recourse. It wouldn't be out of the question if the Nintendo execs etc. realized "Uhmm... this isn't working exactly how we intended, maybe we should try to direct peoples' attention away from Dolphin with a carrot instead of just presenting the stick?"

Now this is a pure hypotheoretical, but it's a clear deviation from Nintendo's past "Emulators is digital piracy and it's illegal!" statements and actions.

(And it begs the question how Nintendo will ever respond if 3D printers become more common and / or can begin to replicate older Nintendo consoles and games. Yeah, the answer is almost certainly "Illegal piracy!" and rampant DMCAs towards those using 3D printers, but it's nevertheless another snag they might have to deal with.)

Now yeah the negatives with this approach are obvious, so this feels like "too little too late". The hamfisted approach has not done Nintendo many favors when it comes to its PR - in the West at least. (Edit: This is not to disparage on emulators - I'm personally pro-emulator when it comes to older consoles and games - I'm speaking mainly from Nintendo's PoV.)

Well...let me break down my verdicts further:
  • :ultjoker: is fairly aggressive, and I wouldn't be surprised if he was meant to be a rush down character on paper, but in practice, he has qualities from all three archetypes. He can rush you down with his speed, deal a lot of damage and K.O. on stray hits thanks to Arsene, and zone you out with Gun. That's why I consider him a balanced or all-rounder character.
  • :ulthero: likes to stay away for the most part and use Zapple, and Command Selection. When he does use his normals, it tends to be in response to the opponent's approach, and not as a part of Hero's, and all he really gets off of them are MP and a successful "get off me". This is why I consider him a zoner.
  • :ultbanjokazooie: feel like they were supposed to be a balanced character, but in practice, their main gameplan seems to be mid range Grenade Egg setups, with rushing in as a mixup. They're definitely not keepaway characters, but I think they still qualify as mid-range zoners.
  • :ult_terry: isn't someone I can quite peg down, but from what I can tell, he's a character that wants to be in your face, but doesn't have the mobility to be oppressive. He seems to be a decent mix of aggressive and whiff punish gameplay, and I'm not entirely sure where that falls, but my best guess is balanced.
  • :ultbyleth: is your typical swordfighter with a few nuances here and there like how Neutral Aerial is used and his upped juggle game. I don't think anyone would have an issue with that deduction. I classify the swordfighter archetype as mid range zoners.
  • :ultminmin is unambiguously and apologetically a long ranged zoner.
  • :ultsteve: is what I call a "hit and run" zoner. His game plan is to make you let him mine in peace, and a lot of the stuff he does is either to make approach more difficult, to run away, or punish you for approaching recklessly. It's not really a traditional form of zoning, but I still consider it to be zoning.
  • :ultsephiroth: is a very different variation of the swordfighter, with longer ranged, but more committal pokes being the crux of his game plan.
  • :ultpyra:/:ultmythra: are both have swordfighter hitboxes, which is why I pegged Pyra as a zoner earlier, but the rest of their attributes do have them lean towards the heavy and rush down archetypes respectively. Pyra is the one that straddles the line more, since she has the high damage output of a heavy, but still has the swordfighter style of gameplay where she wants to keep you away with her big hitboxes. I think you could pretty easily argue that she is either, or just both. Mythra on the other hand, is pretty obviously a rush down sort of character.
  • :ultkazuya: has all the trappings of a heavy. Slow mobility and frame data to match, but powerful hits. He doesn't have the tools to zone you out or the frame data to actually rush you down, so his game plan seems to revolve around approaching carefully, and handing you 50% or some other ridiculous number. He's looking to be the best character with this design philosophy, and that excites me.
Does that make more sense?
Just a couple comments:
  • :ultbanjokazooie: : They're probably a few QoL fixes away from being a more effective all-rounder: while their CQC isn't bad it's a bit overshadowed by other characters' melee attacks in terms of frame data / damage (which makes the comparision to say :ultmario: a bit wonky, at least at the more Serious Business levels). The recent buffs they got aren't exactly the silver bullet, but still helpful.
  • :ult_terry:: I believe he falls a bit more towards the whiff punishing side of things. In addition to his sluggish mobility his approach options are somewhat commital and his range are limited to his kicks. Okay, he's not as focused on whiff-punishing as Kazuya because Terry has faster frame data, but still.
  • :ultpyra: : Also surprisingly good in advantage. The Down Air -> Up Smash confirm is common knowledge by now, but she's not that slow in the air which lets her be oppressive with her aerials. Now she doesn't have the best options out of shield which emphasises her lean towards advantage, but still.
 
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spicynun

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Most characters will get **** anyway at this point with one character left.
Let's say, if we got characters like Arle or Reimu as CP8 or 9, they would get some bad reactions because well, they're not super popular, at least in the West. But if either Arle or Reimu were the last fighter, negative reactions will be amplified considering it's the last character.

That would apply to other characters as well. But characters with less following or that are not big names will have a harder time because most people wants or expects a big hitter.
Thats true. Previously if someone didn't like a character they would say "well at least there are X chatacters left" but now thats not a thing
 

TheLamerGamer

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In fact, almost the exact opposite happens. Their salty tears only make victory taste sweeter.
I wouldn't go that far, I understand that no character will please anyone, and my favourite characters in particular are very niche picks.

At the same time though, it can be pretty funny to see people get mad at something so inconsequential. If you genuinely get upset at a character getting into a childrens' party game, you need to reevaluate your priorities.
 

Arctiq

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I bet the last one will throw us all off. Like it'll be 2B and we'll just get two Square reps in one pass (though one could argue it's actually a Platinum rep)
 
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The Rhythm Theif

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I'm gonna just cheat and pick Din from Oracle of Seasons for all of them.
View attachment 322973

Combine her dancing around with control of the seasons and she can mancy all the seasonal elements or whatever. The fires of the sun, the water and ice of spring and winter, winds of fall, etc.
Me who's read the Oracle of Seasons manga and even OWNS it: "I understood that reference."
 

Gengar84

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I’ve asked this months ago but it seems topical now so I’ll ask again. If the last character ends up being a character you aren’t personally familiar with but you think has a cool design or fun play style, how will you react? While I prefer my favorites, I think I would be happy with anyone as long as they look fun to play.

I don’t think we’ve gotten any characters since Melee that I had no idea who they were before they got in (Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, and Ice Climbers) so that might be fun for a change.
 

Adrianette Bromide

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I’ve asked this months ago but it seems topical now so I’ll ask again. If the last character ends up being a character you aren’t personally familiar with but you think has a cool design or fun play style, how will you react? While I prefer my favorites, I think I would be happy with anyone as long as they look fun to play.

I don’t think we’ve gotten any characters since Melee that I had no idea who they were before they got in (Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, and Ice Climbers) so that might be fun for a change.
Idk, I'll play them. Not an extensive answer but it's not a huge deal to me.
 

SMAASH! Puppy

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I’ve asked this months ago but it seems topical now so I’ll ask again. If the last character ends up being a character you aren’t personally familiar with but you think has a cool design or fun play style, how will you react? While I prefer my favorites, I think I would be happy with anyone as long as they look fun to play.

I don’t think we’ve gotten any characters since Melee that I had no idea who they were before they got in (Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, and Ice Climbers) so that might be fun for a change.
Unable to care much until their release. Upon release, I'll probably like them. That's generally how it goes.
 

SharkLord

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I’ve asked this months ago but it seems topical now so I’ll ask again. If the last character ends up being a character you aren’t personally familiar with but you think has a cool design or fun play style, how will you react? While I prefer my favorites, I think I would be happy with anyone as long as they look fun to play.

I don’t think we’ve gotten any characters since Melee that I had no idea who they were before they got in (Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, and Ice Climbers) so that might be fun for a change.
If they're cool, worst-case scenario is me going "Oh, cool" and moving on. Best-case scenario, I enter a major phase of interest regarding their series, like how Ridley, Simon and Richter, and Terry introduced me to their respective series upon their reeval.
 

Gengar84

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If they're cool, worst-case scenario is me going "Oh, cool" and moving on. Best-case scenario, I enter a major phase of interest regarding their series, like how Ridley, Simon and Richter, and Terry introduced me to their respective series upon their reeval.
Ike’s reveal for Brawl was actually what got me interested in Fire Emblem. I didn’t really know about him or the series before that point. I loved Path of Radiance and Radiant Dawn and I’ve been a fan of the series ever since.
 

RoboFist

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So a few mechanics and moves that aren’t represented in smash yet that I could think off are (I’ll try my best to explain them lol)

A lawyer moveset like the ace attorney games where you could use lawyer evidence to attack opponents (like the big bubble signs Phoenix Wright does)

We don’t have a character yet who’s gimmick is time (has a move like bayonetta)

We don’t have a puzzle genre rep yet. Best example would be Layton using the exclamation marks and question marks for attacks and using puzzle block elements etc as attacks

We don’t have have a character with a 3rd change gimmick yet where they get a third form

As someone above has pointed out, we don’t have a character yet who can debuff characters.

Feel free to add along gimmicks or moves that aren’t represented in smash yet.
We don't have a character who pilots a vehicle/mech and can be completely ejected from it, allowing for two different styles of gameplay.

No, not like the Koopalings. I mean like being able to leave their mech and fight on foot. Like...

imageedit_1_6141683769.gif

43-437309_overwatch-dva-png-overwatch-dva-with-mech-clipart.png

pngwing.com.png

pngegg.png

I'm gonna just cheat and pick Din from Oracle of Seasons for all of them.
View attachment 322973

Combine her dancing around with control of the seasons and she can mancy all the seasonal elements or whatever. The fires of the sun, the water and ice of spring and winter, winds of fall, etc.
Man, what I would give to see an Oracle-inspired stage in Smash. Can you imagine playing in Lynna Village in the past, and then BAM being transported to the future and seeing the imposing, completed Ambi's Tower suddenly appear in the background? Or being in a forest in Holodrum and watching the seasons change over and over like the Kalos Pokemon League stage? All in glorious HD?

Man, I just wish Nintendo acknowledged those games again. They're two of my all-time favorites, so much untapped potential in those two stories...

ERyyBgFXYAAtlvN.jpg
 
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Theguy123

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Jun 1, 2020
Messages
1,265
Whoever the last character is, I lose anyway so i dont care who the last one is
Same. My MW’s are reasonable but they probably won’t make it in. All I’ve wanted out of either off the passes were

Layton
A sonic rep
King boo
Captain toad

Whilst all 4 are in really really good positions to the point they have many things pointing to their inclusion, I just know I’m gonna be taking the L like I have done in this game so far and will be congratulating someone else for their character.
 

FreeFox

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I’ve asked this months ago but it seems topical now so I’ll ask again. If the last character ends up being a character you aren’t personally familiar with but you think has a cool design or fun play style, how will you react? While I prefer my favorites, I think I would be happy with anyone as long as they look fun to play.

I don’t think we’ve gotten any characters since Melee that I had no idea who they were before they got in (Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, and Ice Climbers) so that might be fun for a change.
I have to come clean about that. I didnt want Steve in smash (mostly because of the memes). I made a bet with my friends that if he got in, I would main him to take the L. When he was finally announced, he joined my mains in the game and slowly he has warmed up on me. He became a pretty fun character to main on its own merits. Halland/Dalarne became one of my top favorite music tracks in smash and I even gave a chance to Minecraft and bought Minecraft Dungeons.

That is probably why I am trying to be more open to character picks. Because even if its not what I want, it might be better than I can ever imagine.
 

Gengar84

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We don't have a character who pilots a vehicle/mech and can be completely ejected from it, allowing for two different styles of gameplay.

No, not like the Koopalings. I mean like being able to leave their mech and fight on foot. Like...

View attachment 323077
View attachment 323079
View attachment 323080
View attachment 323083



Man, what I would give to see an Oracle-inspired stage in Smash. Can you imagine playing in Lynna Village in the past, and then BAM being transported to the future and seeing the imposing, completed Ambi's Tower suddenly appear in the background? Or being in a forest in Holodrum and watching the seasons change over and over like the Kalos Pokemon League stage? All in glorious HD?

Man, I just wish Nintendo acknowledged those games again. They're two of my all-time favorites, so much untapped potential in those two stories...
I’d love to see Elma from Xenoblade X and Moze from Borderlands. I’m a little surprised how little discussion Borderlands gets for Smash considering how well the games seem to sell.
 

pupNapoleon

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All this yammering about fictional universes or whatever makes me think of Cleft the Boy Chin Wonder telling Crimson Chin

"Those are REAL fictional people in REAL fictional danger!"

"You MAY be right"

Crimson Chin for Smash man... KA-CHINNNNNN! "I HAVE GOATS IN MY PANTS! I EAT EVIL... FOR BREAKFAST!"
OHHHH
Yeah, maybe he is in Nickelodeon All Stars Brawl

There's future Smash to look forward to, let X fans be happy please :rotfl:
It's much less likely in a game with many cuts, than a game with a huge roster.
 
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Mushroomguy12

Smash Hero
Joined
Nov 23, 2018
Messages
9,623
Location
Nintendo Land Theme Parks, Incorporated

"2021 Online Challenge Round 2" starts at 19:00 tonight! Set in the final stage, a physical strength battle with no item charge cuts. Fighting rules like a fighting game #Smash Bros SP Please enjoy yourself. https://smashbros.com/ja_JP/tournament/2021_online_challenge02/index.html
 

StrangeKitten

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 25, 2020
Messages
1,923
Location
Battle Royal Dome
I’ve asked this months ago but it seems topical now so I’ll ask again. If the last character ends up being a character you aren’t personally familiar with but you think has a cool design or fun play style, how will you react? While I prefer my favorites, I think I would be happy with anyone as long as they look fun to play.

I don’t think we’ve gotten any characters since Melee that I had no idea who they were before they got in (Mr. Game & Watch, Marth, Roy, and Ice Climbers) so that might be fun for a change.
Probably add them to my mains or secondaries, depending on how fun and/or interesting I find them to play. It's what I did with Byleth: I knew who they were, but didn't love them or anything as I've yet to play 3H. But I was sold on playing them the second I saw their moveset.
 
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