Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Evil Trapezium]

I have no idea why Ultimate decided to keep Pac Land instead of Pac Maze. Pac Maze is much more iconic and Pac Land is probably the ugliest stage I’ve ever seen. It looks like someone made it in 5 minutes in MS Paint.

I wish we had some Pac-Man World stuff. If we can't have Pac-Maze they could at least give us one of the pirate levels from the first game.

 

[Gengar84]

Pac-Maze is definitely the more recognizable of the two however it also is impossible to bring back in its current form.
The way the stage works is there’s Ghosts as hazards and Pac Dots to collect. Every 100 Pac Dots collected spawns a Power Pellet for the player that did so. (Power Pellets also spawn one regularly). The Power Pellet turned the Ghosts blue and lets you attack them but only for the player who has the Power Pellet activated. For all other players the Ghosts were standard colors and damage. This is achieved by the 3DS having wireless multiplayer with multiple systems.
Since there’s no guarantee that local wireless/online would be played, the stage had to go.
A similar situation occurred with Golden Plains in which collecting 100 coins turned characters gold. You could not see anyone’s coins except your own. Ultimate made the counter visible to all.

I never knew that. Thanks for clearing things up. I only owned the Wii U version so that makes sense. Still, I wish they had come up with a solution like they did for Golden Plains. I understand now why they did it but it still feel wrong to have Pac Land be the stage that represents Pac Man.

 

[Lyncario]

I think Sonic's pretty up there, what with:

• His moveset
• Only 20 songs when there's hundreds to choose from (even if you were limited to 50 like with Terry)
• The fact that there hasn't been a second fighter for the series in Ultimate
  • Castlevania and Street Fighter got Echoes (which would've worked for Shadow) and Final Fantasy-or at least VII-got a non-Echo (which should hopefully work for Eggman)
• The two stages it has both being just Green Hill in terms of visual theming

Counterpoint: Sonic has sizeable content from multiple games, meanwhile, Street Fighter really only has content from 2 and some spirits from 4. It's the same issue that FF has, where one game has good content, but not the series as a whole. On that note, Final Fantasy as a whole still has worst representation than Sonic since there's only content from FF7.

 

[Perkilator]

Pac-Maze is definitely the more recognizable of the two however it also is impossible to bring back in its current form.
The way the stage works is there’s Ghosts as hazards and Pac Dots to collect. Every 100 Pac Dots collected spawns a Power Pellet for the player that did so. (Power Pellets also spawn one regularly). The Power Pellet turned the Ghosts blue and lets you attack them but only for the player who has the Power Pellet activated. For all other players the Ghosts were standard colors and damage. This is achieved by the 3DS having wireless multiplayer with multiple systems.
Since there’s no guarantee that local wireless/online would be played, the stage had to go.
A similar situation occurred with Golden Plains in which collecting 100 coins turned characters gold. You could not see anyone’s coins except your own. Ultimate made the counter visible to all.

Then why not put P1 symbols over the Ghosts who are vulnerable to the player who activated the Power Pellet? Players who didn't activate would still get hurt, since only P1 can safely attack the Ghosts if they got it.

 

[SneakyLink]

Then why not put P1 symbols over the Ghosts who are vulnerable to the player who activated the Power Pellet? Players who didn't activate would still get hurt, since only P1 can safely attack the Ghosts if they got it.

Actually there does appear to be an indicator around who is currently in a powered up state. The character has a distinct glow (red, blue, yellow, green) for who can attack ghosts.

(It’s been a while since I played a previous Smash so I forgot this occurred)

Source is Pac-Man’s Smash 4 trailer, around the 1 minute mark:

Spoiler

In any case, I guess the devs didn’t want any confusion over if the Ghosts turning blue meant everyone could attack them? That or since the original gimmick couldn’t be 100% replicated on Single Switch play the stage got cut?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Then why not put P1 symbols over the Ghosts who are vulnerable to the player who activated the Power Pellet? Players who didn't activate would still get hurt, since only P1 can safely attack the Ghosts if they got it.

I think something of that effect would work, though you do have to take into account that multiple players can have a Power Pellet active at a time. IIRC, all players could have it active, and having P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7, & P8 over the ghosts head would be a bit cluttered.

Actually there does appear to be an indicator around who is currently in a powered up state. The character has a distinct glow (red, blue, yellow, green) for who can attack ghosts.

This is correct. You could theoretically add more colors to the ghost's border to account for multiple players having a Power Pellet as well.

 

[Laniv]

Well, here's all the mathematically possible colors for Challenger Pack 11!

The difference between this and last time is... I decided to show everything rather than trying to simplify it myself. While this might look like the rainbow (which, it kinda does tbh), I think you could maybe look at some of those colors and boil it down.

Like, my first observation is the first three bottom colors that exist outside the statistical range kinda' look like duplicates of the last three bottom ones. Even though they technically have different values (which is why they are listed separately), they look so similar, you could just eliminate them and there'd be no difference imo.

But.... yeah. Decided to do this approach. Let me know what ya'll think about that.

A bright, saturated purple as one of the possibility colors?

It's his time.

 

[chocolatejr9]

A bright, saturated purple as one of the possibility colors?

View attachment 322705

It's his time.

But he's white...

 

[Perkilator]

I think something of that effect would work, though you do have to take into account that multiple players can have a Power Pellet active at a time. IIRC, all players could have it active, and having P1, P2, P3, P4, P5, P6, P7, & P8 over the ghosts head would be a bit cluttered.

Then maybe go the simpler route and add a glow to whoever has a Power Pellet.

 

[Laniv]

But he's white...

It matches the crown.

If nothing else, that paler indigo in the second row could also be a good fit for him

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

THen maybe go the simpler route and add a glow to whoever has a Power Pellet.

Or you know, just make the ghosts hazard streamlined for the sake of an actually iconic stage lol.

 

[Theguy123]

Well, here's all the mathematically possible colors for Challenger Pack 11!

The difference between this and last time is... I decided to show everything rather than trying to simplify it myself. While this might look like the rainbow (which, it kinda does tbh), I think you could maybe look at some of those colors and boil it down.

Like, my first observation is the first three bottom colors that exist outside the statistical range kinda' look like duplicates of the last three bottom ones. Even though they technically have different values (which is why they are listed separately), they look so similar, you could just eliminate them and there'd be no difference imo.

But.... yeah. Decided to do this approach. Let me know what ya'll think about that.

It’s missing brown, black and orange.

 

[Perkilator]

Or you know, just make the ghosts hazard streamlined for the sake of an actually iconic stage lol.

That's...kinda what I mean; by highlighting the player(s) who has/have a Power Pellet (a highlight that would be used for multiple players, since more than one player can grab a Power Pellet).

 

[Ura]

Well, here's all the mathematically possible colors for Challenger Pack 11!

The difference between this and last time is... I decided to show everything rather than trying to simplify it myself. While this might look like the rainbow (which, it kinda does tbh), I think you could maybe look at some of those colors and boil it down.

Like, my first observation is the first three bottom colors that exist outside the statistical range kinda' look like duplicates of the last three bottom ones. Even though they technically have different values (which is why they are listed separately), they look so similar, you could just eliminate them and there'd be no difference imo.

But.... yeah. Decided to do this approach. Let me know what ya'll think about that.

What if like, Fighter 11's color was neither? Like, I don't see why it couldn't be something like orange, a different shade of pink, white, or even a different shade of an already existing color lol. Just thought I would ask.

 

[3BitSaurus]

Greens and pinks you say?

View attachment 322688

He’s in!

Relevant post:

When Uncle Phill does his back throw at ledge pic.twitter.com/FwIQFuer1o

— InfiniteTatami (Commissions Open) (@tatami_DAZE) July 13, 2021

 

[Þe 1 → Way]

What if like, Fighter 11's color was neither? Like, I don't see why it couldn't be something like orange, a different shade of pink, white, or even a different shade of an already existing color lol. Just thought I would ask.

This is mostly a joke theory done for fun. Its stuck around so long because it gives a moment for light hearted Speculation we don’t have to take seriously.

 

[WahHahaha]

Oh hey, 1889. It's the Nintendo Anniversary Page. What is it now, 132 years come September?







It's Waluigi, I'll bet my Burger King on it! Red Shell Mii Hat, colors mostly hovering around the purple/blue spectrum...

Now all we gotta get is Waluigi's Island as one of the last two remaining boards for Mario Party Superstars (and his Smash Stage) and we're set for having the final character/stage be a shill for a new Nintendo game technically, even if the content itself dates back to the Nintendo 64
View attachment 322684

I hope Waluigi's Island is one of the last 2 boards in that game, give us that and Horror Land.

Also if he becomes playable in Smash and gets his own board in Superstars this truly is the year of Waluigi.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

That's...kinda what I mean; by highlighting the player(s) who has/have a Power Pellet (a highlight that would be used for multiple players, since more than one player can grab a Power Pellet).

Oh my B, I didn't understand. Yeah something like that.

 

[epicmartin7]

What if like, Fighter 11's color was neither? Like, I don't see why it couldn't be something like orange, a different shade of pink, white, or even a different shade of an already existing color lol. Just thought I would ask.

It's certainly possible for it to be neither of those colors. This is just what the math says is statistically possible based on past data. Which might not accurately reflect the real world.

So there's always a chance none of them pan out.

 

[Aerospherology]

The ID for the Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin event image is 1086.

 

[SharkLord]

This is mostly a joke theory done for fun. Its stuck around so long because it gives a moment for light hearted Speculation we don’t have to take seriously.

Also the fact that it somehow got decently close to Sephiroth and Pyra's colors. DunnoDon't think if Kazuya matched up as well. Still, it's funny that it happened twice.

 

[Hydreigonfan01]

Also the fact that it somehow got decently close to Sephiroth and Pyra's colors. DunnoDon't think if Kazuya matched up as well. Still, it's funny that it happened twice.

It did match Kazuya quite well, it was a light-red where as Kazuya's is a darker red.

 

[N3ON]

Pac-Maze is definitely the more recognizable of the two however it also is impossible to bring back in its current form.
The way the stage works is there’s Ghosts as hazards and Pac Dots to collect. Every 100 Pac Dots collected spawns a Power Pellet for the player that did so. (Power Pellets also spawn one regularly). The Power Pellet turned the Ghosts blue and lets you attack them but only for the player who has the Power Pellet activated. For all other players the Ghosts were standard colors and damage. This is achieved by the 3DS having wireless multiplayer with multiple systems.
Since there’s no guarantee that local wireless/online would be played, the stage had to go.
A similar situation occurred with Golden Plains in which collecting 100 coins turned characters gold. You could not see anyone’s coins except your own. Ultimate made the counter visible to all.

It's impossible to bring back in its current form but it would've been very easy to bring back if you just altered its functionality slightly, which you'd think might be worthwhile for a location as iconic as Pac-Maze, especially when the alternative is a bunch of butt, but I guess not.

 

[CapitaineCrash]

I kind of get why people want Pac-maze back, because Pac-land is not really a good representation of Pac-man, but personally I don't care that much because I seriously think this is one of the worst stage of all Smash bros franchise. The layout itself is just so bad, and stock battle were super long because you just bounce everywhere on the wall or on the ghosts. Even on Omega form the stage was boring, because it's just pretty much just a black background.

 

[Noler_Mass]

nah pac-maze not coming back is wild, same with rainbow road. they could’ve found a work around. And they could’ve made it less bland in omega form.

 

[Perkilator]

nah pac-maze not coming back is wild, same with rainbow road. they could’ve found a work around. And they could’ve made it less bland in omega form.

DeviantArt's got you covered

 

[MarioRaccoon]

The Sonic franchise is the only one of the third party IPs where I would have like more than 2 stage, something like a stage representing each game.

Like Chemical Plant from Sonic 2, Angel Island from Sonic 3, Speed Highway from Sonic CD, Emerald Coast from Sonic Adventure 1 and City Escape from Adventure 2

 

[Noler_Mass]

exactly what I had in mind, put the actual pac-maze in the background.

at the end of the day it’s a minor inconvenience, the stage list is insane enough

 

[chocolatejr9]

The ID for the Sakuna: Of Rice and Ruin event image is 1086.

Wait, how old is that?

 

[Ura]

It's certainly possible for it to be neither of those colors. This is just what the math says is statistically possible based on past data. Which might not accurately reflect the real world.

So there's always a chance none of them pan out.

I see, I was just wondering how all the color possibilities could be decided with math lol.

 

[Inferno7]

Seeing all this talk about the Nickelodeon game makes me wish we had a place to talk about other non video game characters. There are so many characters that could bring really fun and interesting movesets to Smash such as Predator, Venom, Edward Elric, and others that could be fun to discuss but I’m not sure if there’s a place here that we’re allowed to do so.

If there ever was an exception to the rule, I kinda wish it could be Marvel (mainly due to the MvC games)

 

[Gengar84]

If there ever was an excpetion to the rule, I kinda wish it could be Marvel (mainly due to the MvC games)

Yeah, Marvel’s got a ton of characters that would translate perfectly into Smash. I love a lot of their characters like Spider-Man, Venom, Gambit, Wolverine, Starlord, Blade, and a ton of others.

I think I’m one of the only people who is 100% fine if Smash turned into Mugen and just threw characters from everything in. As long as the character is cool and fun to play as, I don’t really care much where they originated.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

As far as the stages that haven't come back:

Spoiler: There were more than anticipated

• Flat Zone: It's here via Flat Zone X, so I don't care.
• Flat Zone 2: See above.
• Icicle Mountain: I've only ever played on this stage once, and that was years ago so I don't really remember what this stage is like. Hoo boy is it ugly though. It's not from the original game though so I'm sure the graphical overhaul would fix it. I like the novel idea of a stage that goes both up and down, but I do realize that it didn't and probably won't ever come back due to the pretty universal hatred of vertical scrolling stages.
• Jungle Hijinxs: I liked this stage, and it's a little sad that it didn't come back. Sure there is the issue of Stage Morph, but I think that could have easily been remedied by automatically shooting players back to the foreground area when it triggers. I kinda want to see the 2.5D background fighting idea expanded upon in the future as well.
• Miiverse: Ah yes. Battlefield, but distracting. It's pretty obvious why this one didn't come back, but it would have been neat if they added their own messages that mimicked the ones we saw while the service was active right down to the children being left at Gamestop. lol
• Mushroom Kingdom (Melee): It's not a stage from the first game, but you could probably just reuse the assets from Mushroom Kingdom to make this stage really easily anyway. The layout kind of screams "this stage sucks", but since it would be pretty easy to make, I kind of want to have it just to have it. As for what to call it, how about just World 1? You could also call it something like Mushroom Kingdom: The Lost Level, though that wouldn't make sense to the Japanese Audience.
• Mute City: I wonder if they were planning on adding this stage since the other Mute City got the name change to Mute City SNES. Anyway, I've never played on this stage, but it looks neat, and I bet it would be really cool looking with the mandatory glowup. I like how you can apparently kill the racers here too. lol
• Orbital Gate Assault: Since it took an entire year to develop and everyone hated it, it's no surprise why it didn't come back. I don't remember it being that bad though. The transitions were a little rocky, but it was otherwise a pretty decent casual stage. Perhaps letting Fox's sinus conditioned voice go is for the best though...
• PAC-Maze: While I disagree that PAC-Land sucks, PAC-Maze should kind of be here in principal.
• PictoChat: Hopefully we'll get a PictoChat X somewhere along the line.
• Planet Zebes: The prequel to Brinstar. It's not really that similar to Brinstar in terms of layout though, and it looks really cool to boot. Probably aged the best out of the original game's stages, so it's kind of sad that it hasn't come back yet. Hopefully it will one day.
• Poké Floats: Poké Floats is probably not a "good" stage, but the idea is so much fun that it should really be in every game. I'd like to see an updated version with balloons of Pokémon from Gen 4 and onward included. Bonus points if there's some sort of random generation going on that randomizes the balloons that you encounter.
• Pyrosphere: This stage was...fine I guess. I'd probably play on the Hazards Off version semi-regularly. Since the Ridley here is technically not the same Ridley that's playable, I don't really see any need to make any changes to the stage otherwise.
• Rainbow Road: This stage seems to have been made possible through asset re-usage, which wouldn't have worked here. Still, it's an iconic area in gaming, so the stage should come back at some point...INB4 it never comes back and they just keep adding the current Rainbow Road because asset re-usage.
• Rumble Falls: Rumble Falls was pretty fun. I don't really understand the hate for it.
• Sector Z: Probably wasn't added for consistency reasons, and they'd have to de-rez the Great Fox, but since it is just a lower rez Great Fox scaled up with a neat background behind it, it is a little sad that they didn't add it real quick.
• Woolly World: This stage was all right I guess. I won't cry over it not being here, but I bet it would have looked pretty good in Ultimate. The only con is that it reminds me of the fact that Black Yoshi died for Crafted Yoshi even though he's not from Woolly World, and that will always make me sad.

 

[Inferno7]

Yeah, Marvel’s got a ton of characters that would translate perfectly into Smash. I love a lot of their characters like Spider-Man, Venom, Gambit, Wolverine, Starlord, Blade, and a ton of others.

Venom with Carnage as an echo/semi-clone would be pog
Also Deadpool or Thanos

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Seeing all this talk about the Nickelodeon game makes me wish we had a place to talk about other non video game characters. There are so many characters that could bring really fun and interesting movesets to Smash such as Predator, Venom, Edward Elric, and others that could be fun to discuss but I’m not sure if there’s a place here that we’re allowed to do so.

IIRC, there were a few attempts to allow them, but they had to be shut down pretty quickly due to being toxicity magnets.

 

[Gengar84]

IIRC, there were a few attempts to allow them, but they had to be shut down pretty quickly due to being toxicity magnets.

I wonder if it would be a good idea for a general non game character discussion/support thread for people that are interested? I believe that is currently against the rules so we’d probably need to get a moderator’s permission first.

Most people here seem respectful enough that I would think we could handle it without getting out of hand and toxic.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I wonder if it would be a good idea for a general non game character discussion/support thread for people that are interested? I believe that is currently against the rules so we’d probably need to get a moderator’s permission first.

Most people here seem respectful enough that I would think we could handle it without getting out of hand and toxic.

From my perspective, the biggest barrier to that are the people going there to parrot the same argument like with the Ridley thread, except instead of just being trolls (and people who aren't trying to troll, but are nonetheless saying unnecessary things), it will be people who disagree with the concept on principal, and are far more likely to genuinely rant the topic into the ground and beyond.

 

[epicmartin7]

I see, I was just wondering how all the color possibilities could be decided with math lol.

Here's a quote of a post I made earlier that goes into a bit of it.

TL;DR

I take each RGB value for all Smash Backgrounds, and make 3 separate equations that are then mapped to a trendline.


I get the data to fit a trendline by adding all those values together. And having x represent the number of terms added, and y being those added terms. So... as an example... let's say x=1 and y =39. Then that means 39 is the first term and is only 1 term. If x=2 and y=48, that means that there are two terms being added and that 48 is the sum of 39 and 9, etc.

View attachment 322621
(Graph of the trendlines.)
I then take the trendline equations, find an answer and subtract it from the previous total to get an RGB value.

View attachment 322622
(Graph of the trendline minus previous sums.)

Technically speaking, this is an oversimplification, as you also have to factor in the movement of points around the trendline itself. But other than that, that's about it.

 

[Gengar84]

From my perspective, the biggest barrier to that are the people going there to parrot the same argument like with the Ridley thread, except instead of just being trolls (and people who aren't trying to troll, but are nonetheless saying unnecessary things), it will be people who disagree with the concept on principal, and are far more likely to genuinely rant the topic into the ground and beyond.

Yeah, you could be right. That issue might be partially solved depending on how the subject is framed. If it was less “this should happen” and more of a fun hypothetical how a character would play or bring if it did, I wonder if there would be less hostility?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Yeah, you could be right. That issue might be partially solved depending on how the subject is framed. If it was less “this should happen” and more of a fun hypothetical how a character would play or bring if it did, I wonder if there would be less hostility?

Maybe we could throw them off by memeing the cast of H2O: Just add Water.