Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[SKX31]

I was mostly joking anyway. But in Ganondorf's case, isn't it part of Gerudo lore that males are super rare and have harems (or something along those lines)?

It is part of Gerudo lore, although I feel that the writers just adapted some Amazon lore because they wanted an Amazon-esque tribe in the game, and they wanted it to look different from the standard Hylian setting (as they did with the Gorons, Zoras etc. as well). Which is fine in concept, but its execution is a bit wonky partly since they don't get that much screentime outside of their area.

Which itself can be said for a lot of Zelda stuff, but Nintendo doesn't really care about being meticolously consistent around Zelda lore. We're talking about the same corp that introduced the "Link dies" timeline outta nowhere after all.

Rayman's in an awkward spot, he's pretty wellknown but so heavily overshadowed by bigger franchises from the same company and even the ****ing spinoff characters from his own game, doesn't help Michelle Ancel's the only one who seems to bother making his games at Ubisoft, which is pretty bad considering he's been working on Beyond Good and Evil 2 for like 5 years before retiring/evading bad press in October iirc, which is probably why he never gets talked about much, a franchise's wellbeing tends to help spark discussion on it. Personally, I don't remember much of the franchise beyond hating Rayman 1 on the GBA but liking Rayman 3's console game.

Rayman 2's a legit great game (even if it was ported to every single bloody system imagineable at the time and it might've aged some when it comes to its controls and camera - kinda unavoidable since we're talking a 20+ year old game), if you can find it at a low cost it's a recommend.

Is this true? What's the basis here?

I did some research on this way back. Edit: Not from what I've seen, although it could be just incomplete data.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

So anyway


Again, guesses as to when the P/M presentation, not their release date, will drop?


Unless we're super lucky and the Presentation is this coming week, with a release date of the week after, the first three weeks, and the last week of March all seem like viable candidates, with the 4th week of March seeming a bit dicey due to Rise coming out that week.

Thinking the week before the next amiibos come out so between the 14th-20th of March.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

So anyway


Again, guesses as to when the P/M presentation, not their release date, will drop?


Unless we're super lucky and the Presentation is this coming week, with a release date of the week after, the first three weeks, and the last week of March all seem like viable candidates, with the 4th week of March seeming a bit dicey due to Rise coming out that week.

A solid guess is the second week of March but imma be optimistic and say the first week of March and we’re getting the presentation this coming week.

 

[rexfan53]

So anyway


Again, guesses as to when the P/M presentation, not their release date, will drop?


Unless we're super lucky and the Presentation is this coming week, with a release date of the week after, the first three weeks, and the last week of March all seem like viable candidates, with the 4th week of March seeming a bit dicey due to Rise coming out that week.

3-4 weeks from now. I feel like the fighter is released april for some reason

 

[Idon]

Hopefully when they said "stay tuned for news soon" they meant within the week and not within the next 2 months...

"Soon" is relative and all but c'mon.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hopefully when they said "stay tuned for news soon" they meant within the week and not within the next 2 months...
View attachment 304250

Its gonna be March dude. Look on the main site of Ultimate, its confirmed.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Its gonna be March dude. Look on the main site of Ultimate, its confirmed.

Don't you know? March was pushed back by two months.

 

[Munchi]

Another bored post.
Since I keep seeing those 'there's too many swords in Smash', let's find out if that's true..

Hand to Hand:

Swords:

Guns:

Powers:

Tools/Multi-Weapons:

Other Weapons:

Note that this is for the vast majority of moves, hence Fox, Falco, Wolf, & Kirby in Hand-to-Hand.

You missed the belmonts

 

[Shroob]

3-4 weeks from now. I feel like the fighter is released april for some reason

Uhm

That'd be hella misleading if they said March but meant April ya know.

 

[DevaAshera]

Other Weapons = hammers

This is a good list for reference, though.

I did forget to list the Belmonts tho..

Yes, "anime" is an artstyle people categorize them together is. I'd also say your example of Mario and Crash Bandicoot as "Cartoony" is another accurate category. If we got Bubsy, Gex, Crash, and Spyro as DLC characters in short succession, I bet people would complain about too many cereal box mascots too.

It's only really an art style here, in Japan it's just designs since anime & cartoons are both called anime there.

I also find it hypocritical that these same people complaining about 'anime characters' want more Zelda characters, most of whom would also fall under 'anime'

I will not accept that we have reached the limit on what we can do with sword characters until one of them does this:

Mythra kinda does that for one of her attacks.

 

[Idon]

Its gonna be March dude. Look on the main site of Ultimate, its confirmed.

Well yes. February and March is what I meant.

 

[Pillow]

Well fine then, y’all be illiterate. Don’t ask me to proofread your college essays though.

Rayman is big enough of a character to be acknowledged as an icon by Nintendo themselves in Trailers and even Smash itself. People can argue the semantics of whether he is or isn’t “as big” as other characters but it doesn’t really matter because someone can come into most the places on the internet where games or Smash is discussed and say “I want Rayman in Smash” and everyone knows exactly who you’re talking about.

God, I wish I was still writing college papers. Life was so much better then.

Hopefully when they said "stay tuned for news soon" they meant within the week and not within the next 2 months...
View attachment 304250
"Soon" is relative and all but c'mon.

I applaud your optimism

It's only really an art style here, in Japan it's just designs since anime & cartoons are both called anime there.

I also find it hypocritical that these same people complaining about 'anime characters' want more Zelda characters, most of whom would also fall under 'anime'

Mythra kinda does that for one of her attacks.

Sure, but it's also only here that people are complaining about anime swords. I'm pretty sure most the anime sword characters have had good reception in Japan, even including picks like Byleth and Corrin.

All I'm saying is, from a westerner perspective, it's easy to see why people think there are too many anime swords even if they are wrong.

And tbf to those wanting another Zelda Rep, most the frontunner Zelda reps except Impa are weird looking monsters like Skull Kid, Midna, or Tingle.

 

[SvartWolf]

Smh Byleth is right there with their wife Edelgard with her wife Dorothea and her husband Ferdinand and his husband Hubert and his wife Bernadetta an-

As cute and amazing bylethxedelgardxdorotheaxhubertxferdinand trouple is... I have to constantly remind myself that is not canon before I can sleep .

 

[SNEKeater]

Now this is some massive cope

It's obviously talking about reuniting the different main characters together in the same game. And Rex is obviously included in the group. Nothing to do with Smash.

Rex casually wearing a swimsuit in the second picture is certainly funny.

I have a compromise.

A punchy character...

Spoiler

that summons swords.

Spoiler

Disco ball is the best boss.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Well yes. February and March is what I meant.

Ok...

I'm just saying its not even two weeks until we finally get into March.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

People comparing Rayman to Spyro are kind of missing the point. Just like Mega Man to NES fans, Sonic to Genesis fans, and Cloud to PS1 fans, Rayman has his own era where he was huge. Rayman 1 was big, 2 was big, 3 was big, and hell even Origins and Legends were big.

You can’t just wave off characters because they’re not relevant on the DAY that we’re discussing them. And I mean Rayman has like 3 mobile games that are apparently killing it right now all over the world so really Rayman is as relevant as he’s ever been and as popular as he’s ever been.

 

[JamesDNaux]

Again, guesses as to when the P/M presentation, not their release date, will drop?


Unless we're super lucky and the Presentation is this coming week, with a release date of the week after, the first three weeks, and the last week of March all seem like viable candidates, with the 4th week of March seeming a bit dicey due to Rise coming out that week.

Considering they said to expect more info "soon" but specified that the release is in March, I'm gonna wager that the presentation is in fact next week and Mythra releases on the first week of March.

Uhm

View attachment 304253

That'd be hella misleading if they said March but meant April ya know.

The Mario stuff for Animal Crossing was given an initial date of March but is now coming out on the 25th, next week, sometimes they finish early.

 

[MrMcNuts]

Not my Smash speculation. I'll say whelmed too, nobody can stop me!


I never claimed he did not have a legacy. He's about on the same level as Terry, so I suppose it's possible. He shouldn't be compared to Nintendo 1st parties, though. And Banjo's demand was much higher than Rayman's. I respect the points you Rayman fans are making in his favor, but I still personally believe that majority of Smash fans find him to be somewhat of a milquetoast inclusion so the points in his favor are not enough to propel him to the status of being a likely character.

"Majority of smash fans find him to be milquetoast" is false though. He's made it to top 10 on dozens of polls, over 6.5k supporters on twitter (people can say twitter isn't reliable all they want but considering it has millions of more users than this site that isn't as popular as it used to be it's more valid than these threads), he's become a big request. Sure he's not banjo levels (which he doesn't need to be, most requests will never reach that level) but to act like he isn't among some of the most wanted is just false is all I'm sayin

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Also Rayman's in a similar position to Spyro apparently, popular and requested but did poorly in Japan and lack of popularity there.

Eh, Spyro's outright disliked due to a deliberately crap port, a sabotaged release isn't really comparable to something that just didn't seem to land. Skylanders got released there too but a Wii U exclusive iirc lmao

Is this true? What's the basis here?

I'm talking about Japan's stance on the series, not as a Smash request. Remember, Japan's taste in characters differs from ours, Samus' Other M writing being seen as strong in Japan but disgraceful in the West. Sakurai's made it no secret he caters to the homeland more and hey, what other possible reason is there to skip out on Ezio, the most wellknown protag in the series?

Mythra kinda does that for one of her attacks.

Idon is the resident Iaijutsu Stan, Mythra's not putting her sword in a scabbard or anything, and honestly, nobody in Smash utilizes this style

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

The problem is that Byleth couldn't have been planned for the base game. Incineroar, Greninja, Corrin, they all had a couple months to a year between their decisions and their game's release. Even before the delay, that would be about two entire years between Byleth being chosen and Three Houses' release. In comparison, Incineroar, who was planned in advance for the base game, was from a game released the following year. I can buy Sakurai reusing a concept he really liked, but not Byleth being shunted back from the base game.

If the game was actually being worked on to release in 2017(If I remember right, that's the due date for 3H before it got delayed to 2019), Byleth would've been worked on easily in time for the actual roster. So the timing is actually usable. He may have said no anyway if he felt the timing wasn't perfect, but the timing does put them into a legitimate consideration, since they're still in development while Smash is.

It's not being shunted back. It's being "he considered Byleth who at the time was in the right time period, then a delay happened, throwing that out entirely". It was a consideration that fell through due to timing not working out. I don't think Nintendo choosing Byleth is related to that even then, though. Byleth's a very important character to the game as is, so it's an easy choice. That, and avatar characters have been chosen a bit lately for Smash, so Nintendo is aware of how well they can work. They might've had thoughts for all the Lords combineed with Byleth but things changed due to it not being feasible, etc. Who knows.

Corrin was DLC(and meant for advertisement). Greninja was planned because it was a Pokemon for Gen VI, and isn't an advertisement-specific character like Roy and Corrin are. Incineroar doesn't count either, since it was added as a Gen VII Pokemon as well. It was set aside. These games were already planned to come out close to or right after Smash itself. Or were already out by that time. That'd have applied to 3H if the delay didn't happen. So it's not "2 years", it's "1 year before", which... isn't that what happened with Sun/Moon(or Ultra Sun/Moon?) If they had an even bigger gap, then it doesn't make sense to dismiss it when we knew 3H outright was not a 2019 release from the start. Sakurai has to only know the character is in development. It's not 100% about release windows. Byleth sounds more like an ARMS case instead. Missed the timing but something he would think of, since a fun concept that makes sense comes up. ...But the timing was missed due to the delay. Three House's was going to release in 2017, not 2019, remember? That's a huge difference. So the timing is correct, which is why Imran Kahn's rumor fully pans out. It all adds up. Not his exact wording, but the context behind it(I.E. Chun-Li wasn't replaced by Ken, but Ken had the final spot due to ease of creation).

 

[N3ON]

I don't think Rayman isn't big I just think he suffers from the same thing characters like Sakura and Reimu do where his popularity is very one-sided (just an inverse of the regions), and I think they typically opt for characters with popularity slightly more balanced.

And I think pseudo-exceptions to that like Hero set the bar so high that it's hard to compete.

I did some research on this way back. Edit: Not from what I've seen, although it could be just incomplete data.

That sort of reinforces what my assumption would be about a series like AC in Japan, which is that it has its fans, but it's not so popular that claiming any character from that series would be considered "super popular". Especially because it seems like the series took off more notably only after Altair's time.

People comparing Rayman to Spyro are kind of missing the point. Just like Mega Man to NES fans, Sonic to Genesis fans, and Cloud to PS1 fans, Rayman has his own era where he was huge. Rayman 1 was big, 2 was big, 3 was big, and hell even Origins and Legends were big.

You can’t just wave off characters because they’re not relevant on the DAY that we’re discussing them. And I mean Rayman has like 3 mobile games that are apparently killing it right now all over the world so really Rayman is as relevant as he’s ever been and as popular as he’s ever been.

I think the basis of comparison aren't the achievements of the series but rather that both are fairly popular in the west but lack popularity in Japan.

 

[Idon]

Mythra kinda does that for one of her attacks.

Well the "teleport while slashing" part, yes. I meant moreso the precise "cut, put sword away, cut again" type motion.

Rapid multi-slashing is a pretty common thing a lot of characters have put a spin on nowadays.

 

[N3ON]

I'm talking about Japan's stance on the series, not as a Smash request. Remember, Japan's taste in characters differs from ours, Samus' Other M writing being seen as strong in Japan but disgraceful in the West. Sakurai's made it no secret he caters to the homeland more and hey, what other possible reason is there to skip out on Ezio, the most wellknown protag in the series?

Right, but I'm wondering what the basis is for believing Altair has high popularity over there in general. From where do you draw that info? Because that's not something I've ever seen claimed before, nor is it something that I've anecdotally noticed.

 

[ALongWistfulSquiggle]

If the game was actually being worked on to release in 2017(If I remember right, that's the due date for 3H before it got delayed to 2019), Byleth would've been worked on easily in time for the actual roster. So the timing is actually usable. He may have said no anyway if he felt the timing wasn't perfect, but the timing does put them into a legitimate consideration, since they're still in development while Smash is.

It's not being shunted back. It's being "he considered Byleth who at the time was in the right time period, then a delay happened, throwing that out entirely". It was a consideration that fell through due to timing not working out. I don't think Nintendo choosing Byleth is related to that even then, though. Byleth's a very important character to the game as is, so it's an easy choice. That, and avatar characters have been chosen a bit lately for Smash, so Nintendo is aware of how well they can work. They might've had thoughts for all the Lords combineed with Byleth but things changed due to it not being feasible, etc. Who knows.

Corrin was DLC(and meant for advertisement). Greninja was planned because it was a Pokemon for Gen VI, and isn't an advertisement-specific character like Roy and Corrin are. Incineroar doesn't count either, since it was added as a Gen VII Pokemon as well. It was set aside. These games were already planned to come out close to or right after Smash itself. Or were already out by that time. That'd have applied to 3H if the delay didn't happen. So it's not "2 years", it's "1 year before", which... isn't that what happened with Sun/Moon(or Ultra Sun/Moon?) If they had an even bigger gap, then it doesn't make sense to dismiss it when we knew 3H outright was not a 2019 release from the start. Sakurai has to only know the character is in development. It's not 100% about release windows. Byleth sounds more like an ARMS case instead. Missed the timing but something he would think of, since a fun concept that makes sense comes up. ...But the timing was missed due to the delay. Three House's was going to release in 2017, not 2019, remember? That's a huge difference. So the timing is correct, which is why Imran Kahn's rumor fully pans out. It all adds up. Not his exact wording, but the context behind it(I.E. Chun-Li wasn't replaced by Ken, but Ken had the final spot due to ease of creation).

It was 2018, not 2017. That changes things a bit when the project plan would have been made in 2015 or so. Plus, if Byleth had been planned for base, there would be a hole in development time and you'd think that would show with how tight their schedule seemed to be around release (Chrom not being polished, etc.)

 

[JamesDNaux]

People comparing Rayman to Spyro are kind of missing the point. Just like Mega Man to NES fans, Sonic to Genesis fans, and Cloud to PS1 fans, Rayman has his own era where he was huge. Rayman 1 was big, 2 was big, 3 was big, and hell even Origins and Legends were big.

You can’t just wave off characters because they’re not relevant on the DAY that we’re discussing them. And I mean Rayman has like 3 mobile games that are apparently killing it right now all over the world so really Rayman is as relevant as he’s ever been and as popular as he’s ever been.

Hell, Mega Man and Castlevania were both dead in the water (still dead in the latter's case) when they got fighters in Smash.

Let's not even mention K. Rool and Banjo.

"Majority of smash fans find him to be milquetoast" is false though. He's made it to top 10 on dozens of polls, over 6.5k supporters on twitter (people can say twitter isn't reliable all they want but considering it has millions of more users than this site that isn't as popular as it used to be it's more valid than these threads), he's become a big request. Sure he's not banjo levels (which he doesn't need to be, most requests will never reach that level) but to act like he isn't among some of the most wanted is just false is all I'm sayin

Last I checked, Rayman for Smash had the most followers of any for Smash account, even more than the Steve one had. (Good job, man!)

 

[Pillow]

Well the "teleport while slashing" part, yes. I meant moreso the precise "cut, put sword away, cut again" type motion.

Rapid multi-slashing is a pretty common thing a lot of characters have put a spin on nowadays.

Hey if the "all the companies from pass 1 get a 2nd character" theory is true, then maybe we'll get Ukyo (and Demi-Fiend lol).

It's not, and we won't, but that'd be cool!

 

[True Blue Warrior]

If the game was actually being worked on to release in 2017

Three Houses was never stated to be released in 2017. The first time it was shown was in the Fire Emblem Direct in 2017 where it was stated the game would be released in 2018. Also, in terms of timing, Celica would have been the character considered as her game was even originally meant to be released in September 2016 before being delayed.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

It was 2018, not 2017. That changes things a bit when the project plan would have been made in 2015 or so. Plus, if Byleth had been planned for base, there would be a hole in development time and you'd think that would show with how tight their schedule seemed to be around release (Chrom not being polished, etc.)

I thought it was earlier than that. My bad.

Yeah, never mind. This seems like a bit of speculation from Imran Kahn. MH being denied is still possible(as we just got a boss and other content), but Byleth being considered can't be involved. Not that it was ever a case of Byleth replacing MH etc even then.

Thanks for the correction.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Right, but I'm wondering what the basis is for believing Altair has high popularity over there in general. From where do you draw that info? Because that's not something I've ever seen claimed before, nor is it something that I've anecdotally noticed.

When recording lines for Smash for 3DS / Wii U DLC, Xander Mobus recorded a bunch of names, including characters that weren't in the game in order to keep the roster a secret. One of those names was Altaïr, from Assassin's Creed. #Nintendo#SmashBros#AssassinsCreed#PushFacts pic.twitter.com/8GfIM1GGab

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) November 13, 2020

This and the Mii Costume are pretty damn telling, especially as Smash has shown it cares more about who the most wellknown protag is instead of the first one, we got Cloud, not the Warrior of Light, Joker, not Maya. 4 Heroes but none of them the original, so why suddenly change that for the series with Ezio in it?

 

[SKX31]

People comparing Rayman to Spyro are kind of missing the point. Just like Mega Man to NES fans, Sonic to Genesis fans, and Cloud to PS1 fans, Rayman has his own era where he was huge. Rayman 1 was big, 2 was big, 3 was big, and hell even Origins and Legends were big.

You can’t just wave off characters because they’re not relevant on the DAY that we’re discussing them. And I mean Rayman has like 3 mobile games that are apparently killing it right now all over the world so really Rayman is as relevant as he’s ever been and as popular as he’s ever been.

One problem I've had with Rayman's chances is that he seems stuck in relative limbo for weird reasons. Whether it's the Smash 4 trophy or the spirit for base game. Not that the Spirit matters much, but it illustrates that something might've gone on behind the scenes, and it didn't go as hoped or whatever. It might chance, but still.

Also, could you please link to the Rayman mobile games? Tried finding them, but have struggled so far.

That sort of reinforces what my assumption would be about a series like AC in Japan, which is that it has its fans, but it's not so popular that claiming any character from that series would be considered "super popular". Especially because it seems like the series took off more notably only after Altair's time.

That seems to be the case, yes - some alternate explanation are that Nintendo might've taken a lot of pages from AC1's book or that Sakurai's a fan of early AC. Neither sound implausible, but I'm spitballing on both here, so take with a major grain of salt.

Regardless, it's safe to say that they did note down AC 1 if they had Xander shout out Altaïr's name.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Best thing about speculation is that everyone is shrodingering right and wrong until they’re proven right or wrong.

One problem I've had with Rayman's chances is that he seems stuck in relative limbo for weird reasons. Whether it's the Smash 4 trophy or the spirit for base game. Not that the Spirit matters much, but it illustrates that something might've gone on behind the scenes, and it didn't go as hoped or whatever. It might chance, but still.

Also, could you please link to the Rayman mobile games? Tried finding them, but have struggled so far.

Looking them up by name might help RJungle Run, Rayman Fiesta Run, Rayman Adventures, and Rayman Mini

 

[MrMcNuts]

Hell, Mega Man and Castlevania were both dead in the water (still dead in the latter's case) when they got fighters in Smash.

Let's not even mention K. Rool and Banjo.


Last I checked, Rayman for Smash had the most followers of any for Smash account, even more than the Steve one had. (Good job, man!)

Yes it is actually! Not my doing, it all has to do with loads of people loving Rayman and wanting him in smash! But thanks my man!

 

[SharkLord]

Idon is the resident Iaijutsu Stan, Mythra's not putting her sword in a scabbard or anything, and honestly, nobody in Smash utilizes this style

Translator's Note: Iaijustsu means Lyn

 

[Ivander]

I have a compromise.

A punchy character...

Spoiler

that summons swords.

Spoiler

I got a better one. How about a character that summons swords......and Ororororororo punches them?

Spoiler

 

[Idon]

I got a better one. How about a character that summons swords......and Ororororororo punches them?

Spoiler

I dunno who this guy is, but he's got my full support.

 

[JamesDNaux]

With Japan's lack of interest in western games, it could just be that the Smash team looked up Assassin's Creed, saw Altair was the first protagonist, and didn't even bother to see if there was anyone more popular.

 

[N3ON]

When recording lines for Smash for 3DS / Wii U DLC, Xander Mobus recorded a bunch of names, including characters that weren't in the game in order to keep the roster a secret. One of those names was Altaïr, from Assassin's Creed. #Nintendo#SmashBros#AssassinsCreed#PushFacts pic.twitter.com/8GfIM1GGab

— Will (PushDustIn) (@PushDustIn) November 13, 2020

This and the Mii Costume are pretty damn telling, especially as Smash has shown it cares more about who the most wellknown protag is instead of the first one, we got Cloud, not the Warrior of Light, Joker, not Maya. 4 Heroes but none of them the original, so why suddenly change that for the series with Ezio in it?

This is... specious reasoning, to say the least. I mean to begin with, neither of those things automatically correlates to Japanese popularity. Let alone enough to be a "super popular" character in general. Not every costume we get, or red herring Mobus was given (which I'm sure is no short list), is owing to Japan. Yeah we didn't get Ezio, but Altair was probably the next most likely. You're being a bit liberal with how you're connecting these dots.

But I don't intend to get into a debate over this, I just wanted to know where you got that evidence from... and now I have my answer.

 

[Idon]

With Japan's lack of interest in western games, it could just be that the Smash team looked up Assassin's Creed, saw Altair was the first protagonist, and didn't even bother to see if there was anyone more popular.

Nah, Altair got Rex'd and Ezio is getting in as our Assassin's Creed character.

Trailer's gonna start with him going
اعتقدت أنني سأكون في "Smash"

 

[Ivander]

I dunno who this guy is, but he's got my full support.

Sigurd from Fate/Grand Order. Yeah, he won't get over Saber Artoria in terms of Smash, but hey, he gets style and badass points for punching his swords at the opponent and he'd be awesome for a Fate fighting game......whenever that happens.

 

[Lamperouge]

I have a compromise.

A punchy character...

Spoiler

that summons swords.

Spoiler

Summon swords?!