Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[Shinuto]

I think what screwed over Hyrule Warriors in the base game was the fact that Nintendo didn't publish it in Japan.

Literally almost everything in base game Ultimate pertains to games published by Nintendo in Japan (which includes certain third party owned characters like Rabbids, Rayman and Shovel Knight) or content owned by third party companies with playable fighters on the roster. The one and only exception to this is...Shantae.

It really says something about her when she is that LONE exception for base game content.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I think both of you are misunderstanding Darth's original point.

He was never making the claim that there's no such thing as a strong argument for a character's inclusion/exclusion in Smash. You can certainly list a set of reasons and connect them using logic to be heavily justified in believing that some outcome relating to Super Smash Bros will occur, I don't think anyone would refute that.

What Darth is instead arguing is that valid arguments in Smash speculation really aren't a thing beyond "X isn't from a video game, video game characters can't join Smash, therefore X for sure isn't joining". Valid arguments are those where the premises (reasons) necessitates belief in the conclusion. As far as we know, there's no strict list of criteria for joining Smash and, even if such a thing exists, no one on this board would have that complete list to refer to. As such, you could agree with all of the reasons someone provides for a character joining/not joining Smash while also reasonably disagreeing with their judgment by simply saying "you forgot this premise that impacts this character's chances in a significant way".

For example, imagine if I claimed that Crash is likely because he's generally a popular character across the world, he's highly requested, the company that owns him is on friendly terms with Nintendo, he's got a ton of history and moveset potential, and all of these factors greatly increase a character's likelihood to enter Smash. Another person could agree with all of the reasons I listed while disagreeing with the overall judgment by referring to any reasons he may not be likely. The fact that I can't guarantee people will agree with my conclusion even if they agree with my premises means my argument is not valid.

Validity doesn't require true premises. Soundness does. If you allow for making deductive arguments out of premises like "P is likely," then you can have valid arguments without knowing that P.

 

[Garteam]

Validity doesn't require true premises. Soundness does. If you allow for making deductive arguments out of premises like "P is likely," then you can have valid arguments without knowing that P.

I never said validity required true premises. All cats are green, all green things smell like cheese, therefore all cats smell like cheese is a valid yet untrue argument. Validity simply requires that the argument guarantees its conclusion in the event all of the premises are correct.

Arguments in Smash speculation don't try to guarantee the truth of their conclusions, they try to justify believing there's a high probability that the conclusion is true. Stating "Crash is likely because x, y, and z" is not to try and prove with 100% certainty that Crash is likely, it's to present a reasonable case that Crash is likely.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Is it really pointless if you enjoy it?

Especially if I enjoy it.

 

[Will]

How the **** is an electric volleyball the same as a mega dark Falcon Punch? The only thing close I could think of would be like, the ground slam thing in OoT but even then that's still different in every way.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

I never said validity required true premises.

Sorry about that.

Arguments in Smash speculation don't try to guarantee the truth of their conclusions, they try to justify believing there's a high probability that the conclusion is true. Stating "Crash is likely because x, y, and z" is not to try and prove with 100% certainty that Crash is likely, it's to present a reasonable case that Crash is likely.

They absolutely can guarantee the truth of a conclusion such as "Given evidence E, P is highly likely."

 

[Gengar84]

I think Ganondorf is mostly fine and doesn’t need a complete overhaul but I would change a few things. First, I would replace Warlock Punch with a reflector cape. I’d replace his up B with Dead Man’s Volley which also propels him in the air and shoots diagonally downward. The only other thing he really needs is a floating run animation like Sephiroth.

 

[Aboyd]

I'll be real, the rumor did Come from Papagenos, back in July of Last year. He said it was evidence for Geno and/or Waluigi and other Unlikely characters, that had nothing to do wit Assists or being Mario Characters. He also had said many people guessed what it was, and the biggest guess was Legacy XP

I know people are doubtful on Papagenos. What I will say is that unlike every other Inside thing that Papagenos had claimed to have, Papagenos actually never talked about this Piece of info in a video, and it was because he was afraid it would get too much attention and get the source in trouble. Papagenos was Very serious and 100% on the info he was given

The people that question why the takedown would mean anything do point towards the commonality of Nintendo taking down mods, and the fact the Legacy XP Mod (when it was at it's biggest), had it's most known version released a month before Ultimate was revealed, and the mod had Ridley

On the first point, As bogus as Nintendo looks, Nintendo do have their reasons for taking down mods. They don't just do it willy nilly, but it's usually because they see the Fan Creation as a threat.

AM2R and Super Mario Bros Battle Royale when Metroid Returns and Super Mario 35 were a thing, The Super Mario 64 Remake when Nintendo was looking to port Mario 64 to Switch, the whole Mario in Dreams due to Nintendo not liking their content on Rival Consoles (which also is perhaps the biggest reason why we might not have gotten Samus in Fortnite), and Project M, which was getting bigger in Tournament presence and Popularity to the point Nintendo had to step in

At the time Legacy XP was taken down, it was not as popular as back in the day. Legacy XP also isn't a Tournament game like Project M was. So it begs to question why at that moment they decided to take it down, what were they afraid of. Nintendo have not taken down Project +, despite that being a Mod that had a big release in May of Last year. Nintendo did shut down Tournament for it, but they haven't targeted the mod itself, though it might happen in the future

In relation to the 2nd point, The thing is that it wasn't just Ridley that was revealed in the June 2018 Direct, but the entire Smash Ultimate Video game. Ridley is just one of the main big points in terms of the Smash Ultimate Video game.

DLC is a different story. The main appeal of DLC is the Character themselves, as they are a separate purchase from the Main game, while the Main appeal of Smash Ultimate is the game as a whole. Legacy XP can't compare to the offerings of Smash Ultimate as a game, but The Characters that appear in the Mod can be compared to perhaps Upcoming DLC Smash Ultimate might get

So that's why I'm kind of paying attention to the circumstances around that mod. Could it mean nothing in the end, of course, but I personally like to look at the possibility that it could mean something, but Everyone's speculation is different, yes

Regarding this theory, I have a personal idea on a ranking for which characters seem the most likely that are from the game.

5. Geno: I’m not counting that whole Mii disconfirms thing, but a lot of insiders and business professionals say that Square Enix would rather their character be known for their home games than a crossover. I just don’t think it’s in SE’s interest (though I could be wrong)

4. Metal Sonic: I think slightly higher than Geno, especially since he’s been getting more attention since Generations and has appeared in every main series game since (bar-Lost World, but including a remake he was never in to begin with). That said, I think Sega would bank on other characters first.

3. Mage Ganondorf: This one I fill 50/50 about (maybe even 60/40). I could see Nintendo wanting another Zelda character for the anniversary and adding a new Ganondorf. Both of the Roy’s show they’re not against two characters with the same name and Dr. Mario and Zero Suit Samus (as well as formally Young Link and Sheik) show they’re not against two fighters who are the same person. But I think the next two characters would sell better as individual characters.

1. Two-Way Tie Between Waluigi and Shadow: You’ve covered a lot of points about both characters. They have a lot of things going for them and a few thing going against, but enough to seem likely. The questions are, which does Nintendo want more right now and is Sega going to play ball.

 

[blackghost]

My text is purple because that’s the setting in my account I put to match the pranked thing and Purple Steve (I’m going to change it back to green once the pranked thing goes away, I just did this since I thought Purple Steve would be funny).

From my memory you didn’t mention business people and were basically saying his popularity isn’t genuine, but alright. Anyway:

-Reggie commented on Waluigi’s popularity or demand when he was still NoA’s president.

-Memes can reflect popularity if they show it instead of hatred and are popular themselves. I don’t know what business dudes do, but I highly doubt they’re going to see popular memes and completely shrug them off as meaningless, especially when memes helped Among Us get big and got people buying Big Chungus in the Looney Tunes mobile game, and have lasted a good length of time showing funny and popular stuff instead of hatred. Why would they make a huge assumption about people that contradicts what they can easily see? Imo putting a blindfold on and sticking their fingers in their ears due to what would seem to be a stubborn perception probably based on bias would be bad business. Some businesses already let memes influence them at least sometimes.

-Why focus on selling to people with no connection to videogames, especially through a game’s DLC? You should focus on the proven audience of millions if you want to make bank, and naturally rope in others who get interested. Mario’s series already ropes in new people easily, and if the game itself didn’t do that, why would you try through the extended DLC, especially after having a few characters who don’t seem to do that? A lot of new gamers will likely be interested in these characters anyway due to seeming cool to them for whatever reason.

If you want to sell to people with no videogame familiarity, you’re taking a risk no matter what, because you won’t truly know what they’ll like, just a general idea based on previous successes.

i've mentioned buiness poeple and investors since the beginning, indirectly some poeple need it spelled out for them.
Nintnedo's higher ups are making the call on who gets in. this ios straight from sakurai. They want a MAXIMUM return on the investment of DLC since inherently many players wont buy dlc simply because its DLC. They arent concenred with pass holder's happiness with the pass they already have the money from them. SO logically they are looking at characters that are the highest profitability. Profitability is proved through sales nothing more nothing less. Only exceptions are when Nintendo wants to promote a game for (guess what?) more sales see arms, fire emblem, or xenoblade. Guess which Nintendo games DONT need a sales boost? Zelda, pokemon, mario.

Even if its a risk there's minimal risk and maximizing it. Sepiroth as DLC minor risk in their eyes as a publisher and investor. Waluigi in smash as DLC... yeah not the same.

If you really think they are gonna look at memes and make an investment decision, i dont know what to tell you. they simply wont doesnt make sense to them and most companies. You said what they can "easily see" what do they easily see? there's nothing to look at from a traditional standpoint that would make waluigi an appealing prospect. Why waluigi over paper mario? why waluigi over a pokemon? Why waluigi over any other 1st party nintnedo character? Memes on the internet are not what people use to determine popularity. just isnt how its done for most companies.

Being the chaarcter whos in a bunch of mario spinoffs says nothing about his popularity. Its mario's popularity. this dude is just here.

The among us example doesnt fit here. Among us is an indie title trying to use everything and anything to stay relevant and profitable. it has already long shot past its sales projections and is now trying to milk out as much as it can. Plus as an indie game it doesn't have this level of bureaucracy to deal with. indie games arent triple AAA for many reasons, this is one of them. I wouldnt use reggie as an example he's unusually connected to fans and his words can be interpreted as more good press and PR (see capcom or namco for how this can really hurt when done wrong on games like soul calibur 5 and mvci)

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I don't get the appeal of platform fighter characters joining Smash. If I wanted to play as Clairen or Kragg from Rivals of Aether, I'd play as either of them in Rivals of Aether. It's part of the reason I lost interest in Shovel Knight as a playable character.

Tbf Shovel Knight isn't a Rivals character so he'd likely be very different in Smash.

To add on to this, Rivals of Aether and Super Smash Bros. design characters very differently. The most visible of these differences is that everyone has some form of stage control device:

• Zetterburn creates a burning field.
• Orcane makes puddles.
• Wrastor creates wind currents.
• Crag has a rock and also can make his own platform.
• Shovel Knight can dig up a dirt block.

While not all of these types of things are central to their respective kits, they do interact with them:

• IIRC, Zetterburn's Strong Attacks (or attack in general. I'm not too sure on this one) do more damage when he hits a burning opponent, and the burning field burns opponents while they stand in it.
• Orcane's Strong Attacks have more reach (and might also be stronger) when he performs them on his puddle, though doing so consumes the puddle. Also, Orcane's Up Special teleports to him the puddle if he has one out, and otherwise doesn't do much.
• Wrastor moves faster when he's in a wind current, which gives him more options.
• IIRC, Crag's rock can have him function a bit like an item character at times, and his platform making drastically changes how his offstage play works.
• Shovel Knight can huck his dirt block around with his attacks, and probably a few other things that I don't remember off the top of my head. Doing so can effectively extend his hitboxes, and he can also use the block in a similar manner to Steve as both an obstruction or a wall to save him.

Super Smash Bros. doesn't really do this with its characters, and the few characters that do have things like this (Rosalina & Luma, Duck Hunt, and...Steve I guess?) typically have it as the entire point of the character and from what I've seen that's not quite how it is in Rivals of Aether. In that way a Rivals of Aether character would actually bring something unique to the table in Super Smash Bros., but it's also a large reason why Shovel Knight probably wouldn't be anything like his Rivals of Aether counterpart. The other reason is that the "get money & buy relics" mechanic is fairly distinct, and there ain't no way Nintendo's going to just copy it.

Since Super Smash Bros. has recently been trying to be super faithful to the games they've been adding, and Shovel Knight is a platformer character, I would guess that he'd have a heavy focus on his pogo attack since that's what his level design focuses on (Shovel Knight Dig looks to be doing so even more despite being...I think it's supposed to be a spin-off). How exactly they'd do that without just making him Down Aerial: The Character I dunno.

 

[KingDoop]

How the **** is an electric volleyball the same as a mega dark Falcon Punch? The only thing close I could think of would be like, the ground slam thing in OoT but even then that's still different in every way.

I would totally love for the OoT ground slam to be his new Uptilt. Same function, just now referencing an actual Ganondorf move.

One of my crazier ideas is to make Dead Man's Volley his down special. Same form and function of wizards foot, only now a projectile so Ganondorf doesn't move with it. There would be..some major upsides and down sides to such a change so idk!

 

[Ivander]

Since Super Smash Bros. has recently been trying to be super faithful to the games they've been adding, and Shovel Knight is a platformer character, I would guess that he'd have a heavy focus on his pogo attack since that's what his level design focuses on (Shovel Knight Dig looks to be doing so even more despite being...I think it's supposed to be a spin-off). How exactly they'd do that without just making him Down Aerial: The Character I dunno.

You don't even need to make it Down Aerial. You could have him do the pogo motion just by pressing down in the air in general. Press down while Shovel Knight is rising/jumping and he'll go into the pogo animation without doing a fast fall, allowing him to damage and bounce on opponents who he gets close to in the air. Have him press down while falling and not only will he do the pogo animation, but the fast fall which combined is practically a second Down Aerial, similar to characters like Toon Link, Greninja, the Belmonts, etc who bounce off their foes when they hit with Down Aeriel.
And then make his actual down aerial another motion, like a wide arc swing downwards like Marth or Lucina or something like Ike's Down Aerial where Shovel Knight does a slamming motion with his shovel.

 

[3BitSaurus]

i've mentioned buiness poeple and investors since the beginning, indirectly some poeple need it spelled out for them.

...Not really you didn't. Your OP was basically just "Waluigi is just a meme and thus not really popular".

I love how you're touting raw sales as the end-all when we're in the very end of Smash's sales trail. Which is when we're the least likely to see characters like Sephiroth, who you deem "safe".

Being the chaarcter whos in a bunch of mario spinoffs says nothing about his popularity. Its mario's popularity. this dude is just here.

Wrong. It says volumes, considering he's one of the few characters with near-perfect attendance and one of the few to get that amount of traction besides the core of Mario, Luigi, Peach, Toad and Bowser. It ain't rocket science, or **** that should need sales graphs to explain, it's the popularity of a funny wahoo man in what's essentially a kids game.

Look, if you dislike the character, feel free to say so. But for the love of God, stop using flimsy "business talk" to try to deny something easily verifiable to anyone with Google and 10 minutes of free time.

...Onto a more interesting note, if I'm allowed to talk a bit more about PSO, I found this video from a month ago:

Some interesting details I wasn't aware of - had no idea Diablo was the main inspiration for PSO. And now I know for sure that the demo where the characters had Sonic names was indeed not a fever dream.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

If we were to get a Shovel Knight stage...

• Do you think they'd pick Plains of Passage, Village/Armour Outpost, or the Tower of Fate as the location?
• Do you think they'd give the stage Shovel Knight's layered 2D aesthetic?

Personally, I hope they'd pick Tower of Fate since you can just go ham with fun stage hazards there, and Plains of Passage would likely be just another "World 1-1" stage without too much going on.

EDIT: To elaborate, Plains of Passage's gimmick is the bubbles that you can bounce on with your pogo shovel, but hurt you if you try to jump on them. Since only a handful of characters could actually do anything with such a mechanic, the stage's gimmick would likely just be the destructible dirt blocks or perhaps the incredibly easy enemies you can find there, which isn't particularly new interesting. The only thing to make it stand out amongst the Super Mario stages would be its aesthetic, layout, and/or if it scrolls.

 

[Jondolio]

If we were to get a Shovel Knight stage...

• Do you think they'd pick Plains of Passage, Village/Armour Outpost, or the Tower of Fate as the location?
• Do you think they'd give the stage Shovel Knight's layered 2D aesthetic?

Personally, I hope they'd pick Tower of Fate since you can just go ham with fun stage hazards there, and Plains of Passage would likely be just another "World 1-1" stage without too much going on.

Tower of Fate would be my pick for pretty much the same reasoning as yours, plus you can have the members of the Order of No Quarter as background cameos.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

Revised my previous idea for redesigning Little Mac. Changes in green. Feel free to discuss any points if you want to

Spoiler: Little Mac changes 2.0

[*]Walk speed: 1.386 -> 1.5
[*]Fall speed: 1.95 -> 1.7
[*]Fast fall speed: 3.12 -> 2.72
[*]Dash attack is now the Dempsey Roll
[*]Armour is removed from all his attacks
[*]Jab 1 damage: 1.5 -> 0.5
[*]Jab 1 FAF: 17 -> 14
[*]Jab 2 damage: 1.5 -> 0.5
[*]Jab 2 FAF: 17 -> 14
[*]Jab 3 damage: 5 -> 2.5
[*]Jab 3 FAF: 30 -> 27
[*]Rapid Jab damage: 0.5 -> 0.2
[*]Rapid Jab Finisher damage: 3 -> 1.5
[*]Rapid Jab Finisher FAF: 35 -> 31
[*]Forward tilt hit 1 active frames changed from 4-5 -> 3-4
[*]Forward tilt hit 2 active frames changed from 12-13 -> 11-12
[*]Forward tilt damage is from 4 -> 2 (first hit), 8 -> 5 (second hit)
[*]Foward tilt first actionable frame (FAF) is changed from 38 -> 33
[*]Up tilt active frames from 4-10 -> 3-9, FAF 30 -> 28
[*]Up tilt damage is from 6.5 -> 3
[*]Down tilt FAF is from 26 -> 22
[*]Down tilt damage is from 8 -> 4
[*]Forward Smash active frames: 14-15 -> 11-12
[*]Forward Smash angled up active frames: 14-15 -> 11-12
[*]Forward Smash angled down active frames: 15 -> 12
[*]Forward Smash FAF (normal, angled up and angled down): 44 -> 38
[*]Forward Smash (angled up and normal) damage: 20 -> 13 (sweetspot), 18 -> 11 (sourspot)
[*]Forward Smash angled down damage: 24 -> 15
[*]Up Smash is now the Star Punch from his games, a rising uppercut. Think of Dudley from Street Fighter 3's Jet Upper since that is how it will look like in this game. Active frames are 5-17, it has a sweetspot at the apex of this move and its FAF is 55 since Little Mac falls down quickly after sing this move. Sweetspot damage is 16 and the damage for the rest of the move is12. Base knockback and knockback growth for this move is 35 and 100 respectively
[*]Down Smash active frames: 10-11, 17-18 -> 7-8, 14-15
[*]Down Smash both hits damage: 13 -> 8
[*]Down Smash FAF: 43 -> 37
[*]Neutral aerial damage: 2 -> 7
[*]Forward aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Back aerial damage: 6 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 11 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Up aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Down aerial damage: 5 (hitbox 1), 4 (hitbox 2), 4 (hitbox 3) -> 10 (hitbox 1), 9 (hitbox 2), 9 (hitbox 3)
[*]Down aerial base knockback: 0 -> 25
[*]Grab range: 12.9u -> 13.9u
[*]Grab hitbox position changed so it covers Little Mac's entire arm for both standing grab and dash grab
[*]Forward roll intangibility frames: 4-12 -> 2-14 (fresh), 8-12 -> 6-14 (fully stale)
[*]Backward roll intangibility frames: 4-14 -> 2-15 (fresh), 8-13 -> 6-14 (fully stale)
[*]Neutral B can now be stored similar to a projectile. Maximum damage reduced to 18 for all versions. FAF for all stages are the same as the fully charged version on the ground.
[*]Aerial Side B is now restored if hit in the air after using it.
[*]Down B can now also reflect. Yes, that means you can punch a projectile away. It multiplies damage by 1.7
[*]Special types of dodges are introduced: ducking and quick shuffling of feet. Ducking has projectile intangibility whereas shuffling has physical intangibility. These dodges never goes stale but FAF is 60. Intangibility frames for these are 1-9. These types of dodges have a pseudo-counter property where if Little Mac is hit with a specific type of attack for these dodges during their intangibility frames, he can do an invincible dash forwards or backwards.
Press down-back to do a shuffle and down-forward to do a duck.
[*]KO Punch now takes 40% damage given to gain it and you can keep on using it. KO Punch can no longer be used in the air, instead Straight Lunge is always used in the air. You lose it if you get 40 units of knockback and you can never gain KO Punch via damage received. Specifically, it takes half the damage received to fully deplete
[*]KO Punch damage: 35 -> 15. It no longer ignores shield, but in exchange, it does 80% shield damage
[*]KO Punch FAF: 77 -> 40
[*]KO Punch knockback growth: 100 -> 160
[*]Star Punch system is implemented where if you hit an opponent during the start up or end lag of them performing a move, you get a Star. You also get a Star if you correctly use one of your special dodges. Star Punch version of Forward, Up and Down Smash damage is multiplied by 1.5 and Star version of Up Smash, Forward Smash and Down Smash has 3 frames of initial intangibility. These Star versions of Smash attacks have a pseudo-counter property where if Little Mac is hit during those intangibility frames. those attacks gain complete intangibility until the FAFs of those moves. You perform a Star Punch Smash attack by default if you have a Star and you can gain a total of 3 stars at a time. If you are hit with a move that has knockback, you lose all your stars regardless of how many you have

 

[GilTheGreat19]

I don't get the appeal of platform fighter characters joining Smash. If I wanted to play as Clairen or Kragg from Rivals of Aether, I'd play as either of them in Rivals of Aether. It's part of the reason I lost interest in Shovel Knight as a playable character.

So what are you going to do if Rayman from Brawlhalla gets in?

 

[DarthEnderX]

Personally, I hope they'd pick Tower of Fate since you can just go ham with fun stage hazards there, and Plains of Passage would likely be just another "World 1-1" stage without too much going on.

I feel like the most "Smash Appropriate" stage though would be the Flying Machine Stage. Or more specifically, the Propeller Knight fight in King of Cards.

 

[CannonStreak]

So, we have been through this before, but you guys think a Direct announcement will happen tomorrow?

 

[Baba]

So, we have been through this before, but you guys think a Direct announcement will happen tomorrow?

I'm still betting on one before the OLED model and Metroid Dread launch, but I don't think it'll be tomorrow.
At some point between now and Oct 8th.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Tower of Fate would be my pick for pretty much the same reasoning as yours, plus you can have the members of the Order of No Quarter as background cameos.

I was going to suggest that they could join the battle, but considering how they're designed that's probably not the best idea.

More songs would better fit the stage though...

The Stage: depicts a verdant grassland
The Music:

Spoiler: Media

I feel like the most "Smash Appropriate" stage though would be the Flying Machine Stage.

While the Flying Machine certainly would make sense as far as floating stages go, I feel like that's the nightmare option considering the gimmicks at play.

It's also not too terribly difficult to justify the other areas to be a single platform either, as the Plains of Passage (and most of the other areas) could take place on a cliff, the Armour Outpost has an airship, and the Tower of Fate is really tall and most of the stages take place on platforms that jutt out from it (also there are floating platforms presumably due to The Enchantress's power so there's that as well).

 

[CannonStreak]

I'm still betting on one before the OLED model and Metroid Dread launch, but I don't think it'll be tomorrow.
At some point between now and Oct 8th.

Aren't Directs usually one week before the Tokyo Game Show, which is, well, I don't know...next week?

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Aren't Directs usually one week before the Tokyo Game Show, which is, well, I don't know...next week?

They have been for a bit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will this year. I personally think we're waiting 'till October.

 

[KneeOfJustice99]

Starman is coming from the depths of space. He is coming to return the gift of PSI to those deserving of such power.
You cannot fight it. He will be the next newcomer, as a missionary of the will of the great Gigyas.
T̀͞h̖̰͖̭̤͍̠̫̰͓̣ê̺̫̝̬͔̞͎̹ͮͧ̅̎̂̍̍ ̱̻̹̞̠̜̲̙̠̼͚͙͖̭ͫ̽̅̿̽͑͒̑͆ͭ̊̐̏̚w͍̭̭͚̖͈̝̦̥̳̘̹ͥͬ̍̄̊̄̎̒ͯ̾͋͑̈́̂ͅͅi͑͑ͩ̇ͧl̛͞l̴̵̠͉͔̩̜̠̦ͅ ̮̟̺͎̘̗͇͔͔͈̻ͩ̈͗ͭ̍̀͗ͭ̆̏̽ͥͅo̠̺̫̼̅ͥ̽̀fͨ͐ͤ̌ͭ̚͘҉̺̗̦̬͔̳ ̰̬̭͖̞̙̣̠̘̭̟͎̥̥́̒ͧͬ̓̇ͦ͐ͥͪ̊̒̆̚th͕͕̜̻ͭ̌ͪ͋e̜̫̣̙̩̬ ̸̙͇̦͍̫̬̘̮̻̟̘̇͐ͯ͊ͪ͌̈́ͮ̽ͧ̿͐͜͟ͅgr͕̯͈͓̬̻̼̪̱̹ͪ̐̐ͨͦ͒̍͌̒̈̽͋ͅͅȅ͔̦͍̗͍͖̦͉͒̒ͫͮ̇̊̈́͟a͛̿̽ͩ̄̈̀ͭͭ̑̆ͮ̇̑ẗ̴͖͙̣̩́̉̄̇͞ ̵̀͟Gi̲̠̙̪̪͈̬̼͍̭̤̹̳͇͖͢͞g̴̵̷ͯ͑̂̿̓́͂͒̉̍̾ÿ́̈́̓͛̂̿͗̐̓̃̇̈̎̅͐à̍̑́ͤ̑̏̉̆̌̈́͌ͯs̾̎̒́ͭ̋͊ ̢͝w͚̘̝̯͇͍̼͓͖̘̯͟ͅḯ̵̡l̵̨̫͈̭̪̠̖̟̫̘͙͇̳̲͊͛̈́̋̏ͧͭͨ̇͌̒̓̚̕ḻ͕͍̻̩̭̮̼̘̮̼̯̓̓̋̌ͫͧ̍ͤͮ̐ͯ͂͡͝͝ ̸̨̤̼̫̳̦͎̲͚̞̘͎͍̌̍̆̒ͨͪ́ͯ̎̈́̓̅́s̵̡̯̝̮̳̦̜̲̯͈̗̺͖͓͙͙ͬ̆ͦ̒ͣ̄ͥ̒̎ͪ͂̆̐̌ͯ͝o̡̠o͚̳̙̰̅͑̒ͭ̀͢n̴̝̱͖̙͔͇̲̎ͨ̇͆̂͗̒̀́ ̬͙̮͈̰̯be̺̤̺ ̱̤̥̜̯̓͗̃͆ͣ̆͞ͅy͈̗͎o̥̤͙̮̞̖̫̯̞͔̩͓̯͛̾̽͛ͤ͐̍͊̐ͣͮ̇ͯu̵̗̙̥̜͎̖̖̙̬͚r̜̩̓̋͘͟͝ ̨̕o̙̞̗͎wn.̯̰̲͕̳̍ͯ̿̈́͋

 

[Jondolio]

So what are you going to do if Rayman from Brawlhalla gets in?

Honestly I didn't consider that. I don't know much about Brawlhalla, but I know Rivals' control scheme is almost identical to that of Smash and so converting the characters from that game to Smash basically amounts to just giving them throws and a FS. From what I heard in Brawlhalla you have less attacks you can perform, so the conversion from that game to Smash wouldn't be 1:1 like with Rivals. I might be misinformed though and Rayman is a character I'd like to see so I'm a tad biased.
Also I'm not really inherently opposed to the concept as much as I just don't see the appeal.

 

[CannonStreak]

They have been for a bit, but that doesn't necessarily mean that it will this year. I personally think we're waiting 'till October.

Nah, I don't think Nintendo will make us wait so long just because of two things, like the new Switch model and Metroid Dread.

 

[Jondolio]

If it doesn't get announced tomorrow for Thursday, it ain't this week.

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

I was going to suggest that they could join the battle, but considering how they're designed that's probably not the best idea.

More songs would better fit the stage though...

The Stage: depicts a verdant grassland
The Music:

Spoiler: Media

Honestly, Hidden by Night is probably the song I want Shovel Knight playable for the most, alongside the arranged version of the Explodatorium's theme from the arranged soundtrack.

Spoiler

 

[Jondolio]

Put a remix of High Above the Land in Smash and I'll be content with the Shovel Knight content in Smash. Not even joking, that is legit one of my favorite video game songs of all time.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Bets are still October.

The pattern of directs before the week of TGS will be broken starting tomorrow.

 

[SKX31]

At this point, I have no clue when/if we're getting anything anytime soon lol.

I assumed that we'd hear something before the 17th due to NSO's 3 year anni, and due to the GB/GBC rumors, but nothing, and yet now there's also N64 rumors on top of that as well.


This week definitely feels like the make or break week though, since next week's Tokyo Game Show, and the week after that is Dread's release date.

It's gonna be really interesting no matter what happens here. Either

A) a Direct happens and Nintendo implicitedly confirms that they have a lot more to show for than what's public right now.
B) a Direct doesn't happen, and they'll be content with releasing their remaining games / updates individually.

Anything can happen this week or further on, even as I've become a bit unsure regarding a Direct recently.

Ganondorf really only needs a strong projectile and a float mode with a cape reflector, especially if they stick with his OoT design as the default in future.
OoT Dorf only does that stuff in game and artwork for that game has him fighting Link with his fists. He only uses swords as Ganon.

He's fine as is but could stand to be a bit better representative of what he does.

Hyrule Warriors Ganondorf is the absolute peak though

Honestly, I'm inclined to agree here. The sword Smashes did a lot of favors for Ganondorf (sure they're slow powerful moves, but they cover a lot of much-needed space) and he's one of the biggest beneficiaries of the universal 3 frame jumpsquat. It's a better situation than Brawl / 4 Ganon: IIRC not a lot of casuals liked that he felt slow (I could be wrong here), and he didn't much beyond that power. The increased speed lets him use the tilts more, which gives him more grounded options.

Now he can at least complement his aerials - which are underrated I'd argue, they are not easily challenged. My main issue with how they handled is that they worsened his defense - especifically them not compensating for the sword smashes' endlag / blindspots with something else. He's further polarized where if a Ganondorf gets going it's terrifying, but he's also a massive punching bag if he falls behind.

As such I'm all for those in particular, not just to improve canon representation but also to give him a more solid Plan B. That and / or give Wizard's Foot projectile invurnerability. He still needs something to deal with projectiles - which is ironic given that Ganondorf's most famous canon attacks are Ganon's projectiles and Dead Man's Volley.

 

[Iko MattOrr]

The pattern of directs before the week of TGS will be broken starting tomorrow.

What if tomorrow they will break the pattern of patterns being broken instead

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Honestly, it's hard to go wrong with Shovel Knight music. Legit, the only bad song IMO is A Thousand Leagues Below. The composition is mostly fine, but the ticking made me super anxious on my first playthrough and it's not even synced up to the tempo so it becomes slightly off-beat percussion really quickly so even though I know the level isn't timed now, it still annoys me to no end.

I'll take a remix that doesn't tick though.

 

[CannonStreak]

Bets are still October.

The pattern of directs before the week of TGS will be broken starting tomorrow.

Geez, no offense, but you are just being pessimistic. I mean, I could be wrong, but this is a different story to me.

 

[Jondolio]

Honestly, it's hard to go wrong with Shovel Knight music. Legit, the only bad song IMO is A Thousand Leagues Below. The composition is mostly fine, but the ticking made me super anxious on my first playthrough and it's not even synced up to the tempo so it becomes slightly off-beat percussion really quickly so even though I know the level isn't timed now, it still annoys me to no end.

I'll take a remix that doesn't tick though.

I'm listening to it again for the first time in years and I have to respectfully disagree, I think it's just as fire as every other song in that OST.
Except for High Above the Land of course since that song is above god tier

 

[Iko MattOrr]

Given how some of the most popular indie games got representation in Smash through Mii costumes and the Shovel Knight assist trophy, I expect the last character to come with some sort of Hollow Knight content, be it a Mii costume or even the character itself (unlikely though).

 

[TheFirstPoppyBro]

Honestly, it's hard to go wrong with Shovel Knight music. Legit, the only bad song IMO is A Thousand Leagues Below. The composition is mostly fine, but the ticking made me super anxious on my first playthrough and it's not even synced up to the tempo so it becomes slightly off-beat percussion really quickly so even though I know the level isn't timed now, it still annoys me to no end.

I'll take a remix that doesn't tick though.

Honestly, the Shovel Knight Medley from Rivals has Thousand Leagues Below in it, and it's probably my favorite part of that song, so I would love that track too, especially if it's remixed at all similarly.

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Given how some of the most popular indie games got representation in Smash through Mii costumes and the Shovel Knight assist trophy, I expect the last character to come with some sort of Hollow Knight content, be it a Mii costume or even the character itself (unlikely though).

Could also be a Shovel Knight Swordfighter Mii with a song. It’d be an Indie Mii (Swordfighter at that, we have two Gunners and one Brawler with songs each) and another AT-to-Mii thing like the Squid Sisters and Bomberman. Two birds with one stone

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I'm listening to it again for the first time in years and I have to respectfully disagree, I think it's just as fire as every other song in that OST.
Except for High Above the Land of course since that song is above god tier

I agree that it's a strong composition, I just...can't stand the ticking.

 

[Sigran101]

So if we end up getting a Tales character what do ya'll think the chances are it will be Alphen from Tales of Arise instead of Yuri or Velvet?