Official DLC Speculation Discussion Volume II

[PSIGuy]

edit: it's not Kirby according to a reply to the tweet I should've read but didn't.

There was a Kirby-sounding standalone game that had it's rating revealed earlier today (compare with Kirby Super Clash);

Game: Robobot Battle
Rating: G
Platform: (Not Specified)
Descriptors: General

— AusVGClassifications (@AusVGClass) September 19, 2021

Not saying it'll be announced during the Direct that will be this week and come out the same day or anything, though.

 

[Shroob]

There was a Kirby-sounding standalone game that had it's rating revealed earlier today (compare with Kirby Super Clash);

Game: Robobot Battle
Rating: G
Platform: (Not Specified)
Descriptors: General

— AusVGClassifications (@AusVGClass) September 19, 2021

Not saying it'll be announced during the Direct that will be this week and come out the same day or anything, though.

I'd be surprised if this wasn't a Kirby game considering, well, Robobot.


Granted, wouldn't be the first time Nintendo just dropped a Kirby game on the Eshop out of the blue, much like they did last year with the Battle game.

 

[WahHahaha]

There was a Kirby-sounding standalone game that had it's rating revealed earlier today (compare with Kirby Super Clash);

Game: Robobot Battle
Rating: G
Platform: (Not Specified)
Descriptors: General

— AusVGClassifications (@AusVGClass) September 19, 2021

Not saying it'll be announced during the Direct that will be this week and come out the same day or anything, though.

Look at the first comment to that post, it's a guy proving that it isn't Kirby. Literally all you had to do was actually look at the tweet you posted

 

[PSIGuy]

Look at the first comment to that post, it's a guy proving that it isn't Kirby. Literally all you had to do was actually look at the tweet you posted

Disclaimer, I saw the tweet before that was posted and didn't know someone commented on it since.

Also Disclaimer, I also never said it was a Kirby game, I just greatly implied it

 

[DarthEnderX]

MARTH IS IN REMIX

And that's where they lose me.

The charm was taking other N64 models and making them characters. Once they start making models from scratch, I'm out.

Man, the people who hate Fire Emblem in Smash really don’t know about this, don’t they?

We...do. Why wouldn't we? It's not a secret.

The real commonality is the reaction against perceived overrepresentation. People take it out on the series, but that's the true underlying grievance. If FE was stuck at like three characters, it'd be right there with DK, Zelda, Kirby (ironically), and previously Metroid and Xenoblade as a series people clamoured for more from.

Exactly.

FE's representation in Smash is on the same level as Pokemon and Mario. Which is ridiculous for a franchise of such middling popularity by comparison.

 

[Sucumbio]

3 kirby reps and people had the audacity to want bandanna waddle dee smh lol good times

I have to admit the large fe representation in ultimate is a bit overwhelming but there's someone for everyone I guess.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I have to admit the large fe representation in ultimate is a bit overwhelming but there's someone for everyone I guess.

Not really. Considering, like, 6 of those characters are all the same character archetype.

 

[FreeFox]

Been busy the whole weekend. Is this THE week? Any opinions?

 

[Shroob]

And that's where they lose me.

The charm was taking other N64 models and making them characters. Once they start making models from scratch, I'm out.

They've been doing that for awhile?

The majority of the clones are custom models, not from actual N64 titles. Sure, they're derivative of a base model, but still custom. There's no Dark Samus or Lucas model on the N64.

 

[Guynamednelson]

Lucas model on the N64.

Well, technically there is one. It just isn't the Lucas we're familiar with.

 

[Shroob]

Well, technically there is one. It just isn't the Lucas we're familiar with.

"Technically" you're correct

But it's also the GBA-era Lucas that they went with.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Guys. I found out what our next deluxe Mii Costume pack is going to be:

Spoiler

 

[DarthEnderX]

There's no Dark Samus or Lucas model on the N64.

Okay, but those are basically echoes. They're reskins of Samus and Ness.

Marth is them creating a completely new N64 model from scratch. And at that point, you're missing what made Remix charming, and just becoming "Project M, but based on a way *****ier game".

 

[kylexv]

Pic of the Day:

2014年のきょう､『ベヨネッタ2』(Bayonetta 2)発売!!
前作でスーツと一体になっていた髪をショートにして登場｡
魔獣ゴモラの暴走から､物語が始まります｡
スマブラでは､奇数カラーが『2』､偶数カラーが『1』のコスチュームで､奇数カラーでは日本語でしゃべります｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/jIcGSQFHpC

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) September 20, 2021

Today in 2014, "Bayonetta 2" will be released !! Introducing short hair that was integrated with the suit in the previous work. The story begins with the runaway of the demon beast Gomorra. In Smash Bros., the odd-numbered color is "2" and the even-numbered color is "1", and the odd-numbered color speaks in Japanese.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Okay, but those are basically echoes. They're reskins of Samus and Ness.

Marth is them creating a completely new N64 model from scratch. And at that point, you're missing what made Remix charming, and just becoming "Project M, but based on a way *****ier game".

Wasn't Marth considered for the first Smash though? It could be a reference to that...

 

[FreeFox]

Pic of the Day:

2014年のきょう､『ベヨネッタ2』(Bayonetta 2)発売!!
前作でスーツと一体になっていた髪をショートにして登場｡
魔獣ゴモラの暴走から､物語が始まります｡
スマブラでは､奇数カラーが『2』､偶数カラーが『1』のコスチュームで､奇数カラーでは日本語でしゃべります｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/jIcGSQFHpC

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) September 20, 2021

Today in 2014, "Bayonetta 2" will be released !! Introducing short hair that was integrated with the suit in the previous work. The story begins with the runaway of the demon beast Gomorra. In Smash Bros., the odd-numbered color is "2" and the even-numbered color is "1", and the odd-numbered color speaks in Japanese.

And it was felt when she finally made it into smash and became a touch to death character. I doubt from the "ending" to competitive smash wii u/3DS that she will ever be forgotten.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Well, technically there is one. It just isn't the Lucas we're familiar with.

I would be amazed if anyone had access to Earthbound 64 assets...

 

[Laniv]

Or Flamingo

Or Turkey

Or Peacock

And we are still missing four of the eight kinds of bears.

Out of curiosity, what are the other types of bears we're missing?

 

[Shroob]

Okay, but those are basically echoes. They're reskins of Samus and Ness.

Marth is them creating a completely new N64 model from scratch. And at that point, you're missing what made Remix charming, and just becoming "Project M, but based on a way *****ier game".

I mean, there's also the fact that Marth was considered for 64, a trait also associated with Bowser and Mewtwo iirc, who are in.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Okay, but those are basically echoes. They're reskins of Samus and Ness.

Marth is them creating a completely new N64 model from scratch. And at that point, you're missing what made Remix charming, and just becoming "Project M, but based on a way *****ier game".

Wasn't the goal of Project M to make Super Smash Bros. Brawl play like its predecessor?

Wasn't Marth considered for the first Smash though? It could be a reference to that...

From their discussions it kind of sounded like they just picked characters at random.

 

[Will]

Marth is them creating a completely new N64 model from scratch. And at that point, you're missing what made Remix charming,

I think that specifically is what gives it it's charm.

 

[NonSpecificGuy]

Okay, but those are basically echoes. They're reskins of Samus and Ness.

Marth is them creating a completely new N64 model from scratch. And at that point, you're missing what made Remix charming, and just becoming "Project M, but based on a way *****ier game".

I think Remix is more of a “What if?” Scenario. By all intents and purposes the timeline makes sense that Marth very well COULD have shown up in Smash 64 and I think that’s incredibly endearing for someone to be making a game that goes the extra mile to answer the question of “What if Marth did make it into 64? What would his model look like?” That makes perfect sense to me. Samus didn’t have a 3D model before Smash 64. Neither did Ness or Captain Falcon.

Edit: the only character I don’t super agree with in Remix is Dark Samus but that’s an easy one to get over.

 

[chocolatejr9]

Wasn't the goal of Project M to make Super Smash Bros. Brawl play like its predecessor?


From their discussions it kind of sounded like they just picked characters at random.

That would explain the Mad Piano...

 

[Will]

It's not like Smash Remix is going to become another FE festival anyway. It was either him or Leif and we all know no one except me played Thracia 776.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

And if we insist on being pedantic here, Lucas shares his fsmash and three specials (with different properties with Ness). Idk if Lucas is that different in Remix but I stand my case that he is nothing like an echo in the intended sense.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

And if we insist on being pedantic here, Lucas shares his fsmash and three specials (with different properties with Ness). Idk if Lucas is that different in Remix but I stand my case that he is nothing like an echo in the intended sense.

Oddly enough some of the clones were complete replacements, like Young Link, Falco, and Dr. Mario(who all had different moves as of stuff from Ultimate, so definitely couldn't be Echoes) from the start. Lucas wasn't one of those, but plays differently anyway. Just like the normal series. Dark Samus plays similarly to Samus, but has new AT moves.

Echo doesn't seem to be a thing in the game, as they're just forms of Clones. Even then, it wouldn't matter, cause no two characters play alike. They all have actual differences intentionally to flesh out the cast. A lot were just mainly model-based clones. And you can bet certainly stuff came from other character. Mewtwo's ability to float as a second jump always came from Ness first. Shadow Ball is still clearly created from Charge Shot. Ganondorf even uses his more regular cloned moveset, but he has no Sword to use so uses a makeshift Phantom Ganon Trident for his Smash attacks, respectively. Strangely he's more canon in Smash Remix than in Ultimate cause of that. XD

Basically, don't expect anything close to Daisy, Dark Samus, or Richter in Smash Remix. They're actually more different than that. That's how you can tell the Clones are fairly changed up/feel unique.

 

[Adrianette Bromide]

Oddly enough some of the clones were complete replacements, like Young Link, Falco, and Dr. Mario(who all had different moves as of stuff from Ultimate, so definitely couldn't be Echoes) from the start. Lucas wasn't one of those, but plays differently anyway. Just like the normal series. Dark Samus plays similarly to Samus, but has new AT moves.

Echo doesn't seem to be a thing in the game, as they're just forms of Clones. Even then, it wouldn't matter, cause no two characters play alike. They all have actual differences intentionally to flesh out the cast. A lot were just mainly model-based clones. And you can bet certainly stuff came from other character. Mewtwo's ability to float as a second jump always came from Ness first. Shadow Ball is still clearly created from Charge Shot. Ganondorf even uses his more regular cloned moveset, but he has no Sword to use so uses a makeshift Phantom Ganon Trident for his Smash attacks, respectively. Strangely he's more canon in Smash Remix than in Ultimate cause of that. XD

Basically, don't expect anything close to Daisy, Dark Samus, or Richter in Smash Remix. They're actually more different than that. That's how you can tell the Clones are fairly changed up/feel unique.

Competitive Smash has taught me to appreciate the differences in clone characters with differences as having differences playstyles even if they may for all intents and purposes just be two sides of the same paper.

 

[DarthEnderX]

I mean, there's also the fact that Marth was considered for 64, a trait also associated with Bowser and Mewtwo iirc, who are in.

Yeah, but they're still using Mario 64 and Pokemon Stadium models to do it. The Marth model is from nothing, because there were no FE games on the N64.

Also...super weird they haven't added Banjo yet...

Wasn't the goal of Project M to make Super Smash Bros. Brawl play like its predecessor?

I thought the goal was to port Brawl characters into Melee.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

Competitive Smash has taught me to appreciate the differences in clone characters with differences as having differences playstyles even if they may for all intents and purposes just be two sides of the same paper.

Exactly. That's what make certain Echoes nothing truly like Clones or Semi-Clones in practice. Though to be fair, we have few Echoes even now, and three of them actually have competitive differences. Worst part is Richter had enough to feel a little different. Daisy I can understand being bleh(since she really doesn't have actual moves in any of the games specific to her, something even Waluigi can boast, or freaking Pauline now), though. Dark Samus has no excuse. Couldn't have had a Double Missile at least when doing a Smash Side B(one slow, and then one fast afterwards?).

Ken, Chrom, and Lucina are nice in that way. As for the only traditional clone now, Dr. Mario boasts a different overall spread of abilities and playstyle, especially not having the tools for a major combo game like Mario does, being the hard hitter instead. Ironically he turned out to be just slightly better than Mario in Melee in practice. Not unlike how Lucina and Chrom outweigh their counterparts in play(just not literally weight-wise).

 

[Idon]

I thought the goal was to port Brawl characters into Melee.

No, Project M is a mod to make Brawl play like Melee. Not sure where you got that from.

There's Beyond Melee, which is a mod for Melee that adds new characters, but I think Wolf's the only one from Brawl- the rest are just other game characters.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

I thought the goal was to port Brawl characters into Melee.

If that were the goal then I question why they decided to mod Brawl instead of Melee.

Daisy I can understand being bleh(since she really doesn't have actual moves in any of the games specific to her, something even Waluigi can boast, or freaking Pauline now), though.

She actually does: In Super Mario Run, she is able to double jump.

Well...I suppose that's kind of what Yoshi's Flutter Jump is, but it handles differently from the standard double jump so there's that.

As for the only traditional clone now, Dr. Mario boasts a different overall spread of abilities and playstyle, especially not having the tools for a major combo game like Mario does, being the hard hitter instead. Ironically he turned out to be just slightly better than Mario in Melee in practice. Not unlike how Lucina and Chrom outweigh their counterparts in play(just not literally weight-wise).

Hehe. It's 'cuz they forgot to actually make him slower as intended.

Also, people think Chrom is objectively better than Roy now?

No, Project M is a mod to make Brawl play like Melee. Not sure where you got that from.

There's Beyond Melee, which is a mod for Melee that adds new characters, but I think Wolf's the only one from Brawl- the rest are just other game characters.

Oh there's more than Wolf now? I haven't heard anyone mention it in a while so I didn't know.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

She actually does: In Super Mario Run, she is able to double jump.

Well...I suppose that's kind of what Yoshi's Flutter Jump is, but it handles differently from the standard double jump so there's that.

Oh, huh. I forgot about that.

It's probably not used cause it wouldn't flesh well with Peach's aerials, which are designed with the float in mind. Daisy getting slightly changed up aerials would be a good way to do so. Also, the Toads can go. At most, a new Neutral B animation, even if it doesn't change anything else. At least her Final Smash makes sense(daisies are actually very healthy things to eat).

Hehe. It's 'cuz they forgot to actually make him slower as intended.

Honestly, seems silly Dr. Mario doesn't have more weight. He wears more clothing, so a few more points would make sense. Not that they aren't pretty separate even then.

Also, people think Chrom is objectively better than Roy now?

Not having to hit a specific sweetspot makes Chrom better in competitive play. Same reason as Lucina. Though maybe that changed since a patch or so ago.

 

[Idon]

Oh there's more than Wolf now? I haven't heard anyone mention it in a while so I didn't know.

Quite,
beyond Wolf there's:

Shadow Mewtwo from Pokken
Raichu from Pokemon
Fay from Starfox
Skullkid from Zelda: Majora's Mask.

 

[N3ON]

Pic of the Day:

2014年のきょう､『ベヨネッタ2』(Bayonetta 2)発売!!
前作でスーツと一体になっていた髪をショートにして登場｡
魔獣ゴモラの暴走から､物語が始まります｡
スマブラでは､奇数カラーが『2』､偶数カラーが『1』のコスチュームで､奇数カラーでは日本語でしゃべります｡#スマブラSP pic.twitter.com/jIcGSQFHpC

— 桜井 政博 / Masahiro Sakurai (@Sora_Sakurai) September 20, 2021

Today in 2014, "Bayonetta 2" will be released !! Introducing short hair that was integrated with the suit in the previous work. The story begins with the runaway of the demon beast Gomorra. In Smash Bros., the odd-numbered color is "2" and the even-numbered color is "1", and the odd-numbered color speaks in Japanese.

I'm glad Sakurai is finally on the right side of history showing a strong female character using justified violence to dismantle the sexist hegemony that western religious institution, symbolized here by the giant angelic visage, represents.

Maybe he's not a nazi after all.

Wait, hold on. It's also a white character aiming a gun at a non-white face. Literally hanging upside down.

Wow. I can't believe I almost gave him the benefit of the doubt. He really needs to educate himself on cultures non-endemic to his affluent Japanese bubble. I ashamed Nintendo hasn't stepped in yet. I should tweet about this.

 

[DarthEnderX]

No, Project M is a mod to make Brawl play like Melee. Not sure where you got that from.

From my zero research.

 

[Idon]

Not having to hit a specific sweetspot makes Chrom better in competitive play. Same reason as Lucina. Though maybe that changed since a patch or so ago.

That hasn't been true for a while.
Right now Roy's the one in the lead when it comes to results, led in results by players like Kola and Goblin, though by sheer volume of players, Chrom isn't lagging behind that much when it comes to representation.

Chrom's also got the rather debilitating weakness of an up special that doesn't snap.

 

[PSIGuy]

It's not like Smash Remix is going to become another FE festival anyway. It was either him or Leif and we all know no one except me played Thracia 776.

A shame. Leif's basically free license to do a Byleth/Robin style moveset. With a light sabre. And a horse!

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

That hasn't been true for a while.
Right now Roy's the one in the lead when it comes to results, led in results by players like Kola and Goblin, though by sheer volume of players, Chrom isn't lagging behind that much when it comes to representation.

Chrom's also got the rather debilitating weakness of an up special that doesn't snap.

Ah, thanks for further clarifying.

 

[SMAASH! Puppy]

Oh, huh. I forgot about that.

It's probably not used cause it wouldn't flesh well with Peach's aerials, which are designed with the float in mind. Daisy getting slightly changed up aerials would be a good way to do so. Also, the Toads can go. At most, a new Neutral B animation, even if it doesn't change anything else.

Yeah a floatless Daisy would probably need her entire moveset restructured since her ground normals were made to work in conjunction with her float cancel aerials (which is probably why they don't do short hop damage now that I think about it), her aerials were made with float canceling in mind and are trickier to use without the mechanic, and Vegetable is made to directly interact with it as well.

I think realistically you'd have to rework or replace Vegetable, and change the hitboxes and frame data across the board for a floatless Peach moveset to work. Might should even up her mobility slightly (be it through the horizontal speed or vertical stats), though I'm not sure if that's entirely necessary or just a direction that makes sense given Daisy's personality compared to Peach's. With all those changes (even assuming she keeps Toad Shield) she does start to look more like a semi-clone than an Echo Fighter. Might could be doable in a similar amount of time, but I dunno.

At least her Final Smash makes sense(daisies are actually very healthy things to eat).

Huh. The more you know. I thought it was just for the lulz and no logic was actually applied.

 

[Will]

A shame. Leif's basically free license to do a Byleth/Robin style moveset. With a light sabre. And a horse!

And people still dog on FE5 like it isn't top tier. Maybe I like it because my favorite FE is FE4