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DK's Matchup Barrels!

DtJ S2n

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Imo -2. Once you get in it's scary as ****.
I'll agree. There's a lot of inherently obvious things like how difficult it is to get in and how much damage Olimar does. But then once DK gains momentum it's very difficult for Olimar to get it back as long as DK knows which options work (i.e. not getting super armored or n-aired). There's a lot of factors that add up to us being able to really stick to an airborne Olimar. Range, movement, or one of my favorites is how perfect our fallspeed is vs theirs. And our grab is absolutely devastating. Cargo d-throw puts Olimar in more or less the worst position possible and he has to work his way out of it. Sets up potential gimps. And then they have to get off the edge. And then they have to get their back out of the corner. If they mess up anywhere in that, they're probably being thrown right back out to repeat it and another chance for them to die. A lot of times you'll get something like a missed gimp, into hogging the edge and making them up-b high, and then ledge hopping and getting the grab on them to repeat it or throw them under the stage. I think how strong we get at this phase of the game definitely keeps it from being a -3.

What do people like to counterpick vs Olimar (or from the other side)? With RC/Brinstar being less seen, our CPs are less devastating. When legal, I like those two and also PS2. Olimar's pikmin don't function well on the Ice Phase, the Electric stage can push him to the edge for free (and you never have to actually approach him here), and the Wind Phase is ridiculous for us. Down-b becomes super easy to throw, and when they're in the air, our fallspeed that I mentioned up there lets us ride him all the way down. A tip to the Olimar players for the windphase. Your fallspeed is so low that you can grab the ledge, let go of it, and then regrab is without even jumping. I don't think it's fully invincible but it's an option. Without those stages, I think we just have to CP to wherever we're most comfortable.
 

Neon!

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This is a matchup where DK needs to be more aggressive, there are times when its better to forego charging your punch and approach instead.

Stages can be tricky in this matchup seeing as olimar gets certain bonuses on some our best stages. On Battlefield the platforms limit aerial approaches and help with his landing. YI is still good for DK but the platform again limits our ability to approach. The first transformation of Frigate works out for us but the second is actually one of olimar's best stages, its also notable that the stage stays on the 2nd transformation more often than the first. Delfino is probably our best stage in the matchup but it will likely be banned.
 

Luigi player

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This is a matchup where DK needs to be more aggressive, there are times when its better to forego charging your punch and approach instead.
Eh? Only if you hit him off the ground (then juggling/edgeguarding would be better) or would lose too much stagespace while doing so. Other than that though just having the punch is much much better than doing anything without it, since Olimar will have to guess more (even though he might just ignore it...) and be more careful with what he does. It's really important in the MU imo.
 

DtJ S2n

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Frigate causes him to pull more yellows and purples. That and the random transformations can make a Frigate CP go sour really quick. Would not risk our CP on that.

I do actually like Delfino for the match-up, but it's one of Olimar's best stages too. It can kind of suck sometimes though because the transformations can reset momentum, which is horrible for us.
 

Neon!

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Eh? Only if you hit him off the ground (then juggling/edgeguarding would be better) or would lose too much stagespace while doing so. Other than that though just having the punch is much much better than doing anything without it, since Olimar will have to guess more (even though he might just ignore it...) and be more careful with what he does. It's really important in the MU imo.
I mostly meant at the beginning of the match or any situation in which olimar has few pikmin. The punch is very important though as it gives DK another dimension to his offensive and defensive game. Charging the punch at poor times however can lead to DK taking massive damage from attached pikmin.
 

Neon!

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I may get the chance to play Denti again in a couple weeks, I'll probably post more on the matchup after that.
 

DtJ S2n

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Sort-of yes. In general it's a very good option versus it. Oli's grab will outrange our D-tilt by a little. He doesn't get grab armor though so we can interrupt his grab with it pretty easily and our d-tilt is also faster than his grab.
 

elrelster

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It may be common sense, but it's in your best interest to swat those little pikmin hard. His game is interesting; to me at least, it doesn't feel like you aren't taking a whole lot of damage while he be chuckin those things at you, but they are. I'd say for this match up at least if not every match up, never stand still. Keep throwin out F-tilts and U-tilts, or jump and airdodge (careful though, the jump airdodge or spotdodge stuff is what he may want you to do, which is why I'm recommending attacks). Every percent counts.


BTW, I joined the boards a while ago, but I ended up reading a lot more than posting, so I'm sorry if my opinion doesn't stack up with you guys who have 1,000+ posts.
 

Attila the Hun

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It may be common sense, but it's in your best interest to swat those little pikmin hard. His game is interesting; to me at least, it doesn't feel like you aren't taking a whole lot of damage while he be chuckin those things at you, but they are. I'd say for this match up at least if not every match up, never stand still. Keep throwin out F-tilts and U-tilts, or jump and airdodge (careful though, the jump airdodge or spotdodge stuff is what he may want you to do, which is why I'm recommending attacks). Every percent counts.


BTW, I joined the boards a while ago, but I ended up reading a lot more than posting, so I'm sorry if my opinion doesn't stack up with you guys who have 1,000+ posts.
Pishposh, we'll take what info we can get, 1000 posts or not. xD
 

Neon!

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DK vs Olimar will come in the matchup chart v3.0 discussion which should take place sometime in the next month or so. Anything I post there will be posted here as well.
 

DtJ S2n

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Speaking of hitting the pikmin, Ook was totally right when he said that you've gotta f-smash those purple pikmin.
 

Pheta Ray

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I know its a bit of a bump but if you guys are still discussing the Olimar MU I've got an input.

Scenario 1: the Olimar is campy as heck with Pikmin.
MU: -2
Reason: I find it hard to approach Olimar with DK unless you want to try and stale Bair like crazy. Cancelling Pikmin off your body with Hand Slap leaves you open for Dash Grabs as soon as it stops (that ending lag), or open for Dairs. That being said its not entirely impossible to get to Olimar and attack. It's just a lot harder than it should be because of DK's awful Dash Attack.

Scenario 2: the Olimar is aggressive as heck and doesn't camp.
MU: -2
Reason: Olimar is faster than DK. It's just how it is. But DK has options to counter Olimar. If I'm right you can Utilt lock from the low percentages. And if you can get Olimar immediately after he's KOed, and he can't get Pikmin out (unlikely but again, possible), Olimar is a little stuck for a while. That being said, Olimar's approach options with his aerials and tilts and smashes are hard for our friend DK to counter. A good Dsmash kill would shake up Olimar quite a bit, though.
 

1PokeMastr

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I know its a bit of a bump but if you guys are still discussing the Olimar MU I've got an input.

Scenario 1: the Olimar is campy as heck with Pikmin.
MU: -2
Reason: I find it hard to approach Olimar with DK unless you want to try and stale Bair like crazy. Cancelling Pikmin off your body with Hand Slap leaves you open for Dash Grabs as soon as it stops (that ending lag), or open for Dairs. That being said its not entirely impossible to get to Olimar and attack. It's just a lot harder than it should be because of DK's awful Dash Attack.



Scenario 2: the Olimar is aggressive as heck and doesn't camp.
MU: -2
Reason: Olimar is faster than DK. It's just how it is. But DK has options to counter Olimar. If I'm right you can Utilt lock from the low percentages. And if you can get Olimar immediately after he's KOed, and he can't get Pikmin out (unlikely but again, possible), Olimar is a little stuck for a while. That being said, Olimar's approach options with his aerials and tilts and smashes are hard for our friend DK to counter. A good Dsmash kill would shake up Olimar quite a bit, though.

Scenario One:

Bair doesn't work vs grounded Olimar, Up B/ U-Tilt/ Nair/ Uair are better at knocking pikmin off than using Down B.
Dk should only use Dash Attack to punish/ catch landings, not as an approach. Dk has a better time walking up to Olimar and spacing F-Tilt/ Down B/ D-Tilt.

Scenario Two:

U-Tilt Lock ?
All characters are invincible when they respawn, Olimar can pluck pikmin and counter anything we do because of the short invincibility.


I don't have input, I'm just pointing out some things.
 

zyth

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Oli vs DK is a -3 IMO. As a former Oli main this match is just too hard for DK. if DK tries to approach with f-tilt Oli can grab it, if DK tries to DownB outside of grab range then oli can side-b to bring up damage and can shorthop fair over downb. and if DK tries to approach from the air then Oli can back off and side b to bring up damage and just block any bairs, and can either Usmash OOS or shield grab depending on how you space it. its just to hard to approach as DK
 

1PokeMastr

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Spaced F-Tilt has the same range as Olimar's Grab and Olimar has no grab armour.
 

zyth

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oli can shield ftilt and grab. the only safe option walking up to Oli is down b, and if he shields the first hit he can short-hop fair
 

1PokeMastr

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Doesn't help yours either.
Down B is frame 19, same as Punch.
Making it not safe.

And you stating that F-Tilt is unsafe because Olimar can block and grab it.
Then saying Down B is safe, but Olimar can block and Fair Oos.

Is ********.
 

zyth

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only safe option if used at max range smart ass. but if not used at max range he can get you still.

and wat do you mean Down B is frame 19, same as Punch. you mean ganons punch? because you said ganon can short hop fair like oli. and now ur saying its not safe?

thats ********
 

1PokeMastr

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oli can shield ftilt and grab. the only safe option walking up to Oli is down b, and if he shields the first hit he can short-hop fair
only safe option if used at max range smart ***. but if not used at max range he can get you still.

and wat do you mean Down B is frame 19, same as Punch. you mean ganons punch? because you said ganon can short hop fair like oli. and now ur saying its not safe?

thats ********
Dk's Punch hits on 18-21. Frame 18 is the shoulder hitbox, 19 and after is infront of Dk.
Down B hits on 19.

I was saying it's basically just walking up and doing punch.

I was calling your statement ******** because you sated options to punish two of Dk's options and called one safe and the other unsafe despite both being punishable.


The only safe thing about it, is the suprise range it has, That's it. Nothing else.
Ganon has a frame 17 Fair and can punish it at max range with Sh Fair, despite his 8 frame jump squat.
Meaning.. you have plenty of time to punish it.
Olimar having a 6 frame jump squat and a frame 7 Fair.
 

zyth

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my point to this in thee beginning was that DK has no completely safe options, even his safest ones can get him hurt if Oli knows wat to do. there is just about no guaranteed safe things to do vs oli for DK. if he had an infinite on us I'd say it would be -4 or -5
 
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