DK vs Jiggs help?

[mangotango]

my friend plays Jigglypuff and I always get destroyed playing him. His back air seems to always beat mine and I have can't get much off of a grab. also what are some good stages vs Jigglypuff?

 

[NJzFinest]

Your back air beats her. Actually everytime she's in the air, you can beat whatever she throws out with a back air. Keep that in mind throughout the whole match. Giant Punch and Ftilt are amazing in this matchup. Since Puff is pretty slow, constantly make sure you have a charged up Giant Punch and dish it out when you read aerial advances. This matchup isn't too bad at all, you mostly need to make sure you don't get rested comboed, but it's hard for Puff close enough / to get past those 3 moves. Also if you're fast enough, cargo up throw to Uair connects at kill % and downthrow combos into Giant Punch.

CC downsmash is a fun kill move.

 

[JRad]

You can't do cargo upthrow uair at kill % from my experience and we have a lot of puffs in my area :/ including hbox. But like NJzFinest said, you just want to out space her and not let her get close. You can chain grab puff with downthrow if he doesn't DI away which is hilarious and if you do downthrow and she tries to double jump fair you after DIing in, you can hit her with punch LOL. Do NOT Dair out of shield unless you plan on getting hit by uptilt rest . However dair is our best combo setter so try to land it if you read a roll or fsmash. You can dair into uair for a kill if you hit the dair in the 60 maybe low 70 range. YOU WANT TO CHARGE PUNCH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!! This is the thing that ends stocks at 40. If you hit her far offstage, you cant really ledgeguard so charge some punch at the beginning of her recovery and then try to pressure her as she gets back. If she full hops over you then get under her with uair. At really low percent you can chain 3 uairs together. Basically just watch the puff at all times. ANother great tool is UpB sweetspot if he tries to cross you up or just gets too close to your shield.

 

[Pud'N]

You can't do cargo upthrow uair at kill % from my experience and we have a lot of puffs in my area :/ including hbox. But like NJzFinest said, you just want to out space her and not let her get close. You can chain grab puff with downthrow if he doesn't DI away which is hilarious and if you do downthrow and she tries to double jump fair you after DIing in, you can hit her with punch LOL. Do NOT Dair out of shield unless you plan on getting hit by uptilt rest . However dair is our best combo setter so try to land it if you read a roll or fsmash. You can dair into uair for a kill if you hit the dair in the 60 maybe low 70 range. YOU WANT TO CHARGE PUNCH AS MUCH AS POSSIBLE!!! This is the thing that ends stocks at 40. If you hit her far offstage, you cant really ledgeguard so charge some punch at the beginning of her recovery and then try to pressure her as she gets back. If she full hops over you then get under her with uair. At really low percent you can chain 3 uairs together. Basically just watch the puff at all times. ANother great tool is UpB sweetspot if he tries to cross you up or just gets too close to your shield.

Cargo Utrhow Uair is guaranteed but you have to throw them on the groun (short hop uthrow will make it easier to get out) and jump asap, but also make sure u dont double jump till youre at max height of your initial jump

Its reliable, just awkward timing, but dk mains are used to that lol

 

[JRad]

I am telling you that it is not legit. Jigglypuff can escape it and jump/airdodge. Neither myself or Eikelmann have ever landed it on hbox. She definitely escapes hit stun before it happens. IF she doesn't react right away then yeah it works or if you read the jump you MIGHT (i say might because im not sure about this) be able hit her.

 

[Pud'N]

I mean like its Hbox but its not like jumping out of hitstun is something that only a top 5 player should be good at
Not tryna fire shots but to me sounds like fraudulent imputs from the DK side. Im not good with frame data but unless u prove it by the frame data ima keep upairing cuz its always worked for me, ya feel me?

 

[NJzFinest]

Jrad you're wrong :O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djsXUxqNPRE

2:59 I do it and Hbox askes me if it's guaranteed since he had no idea it would land. I tell him it's better than Fox's upthrow Uair since it still chains at higher %s.

I got ***** in this MM but that's only because Hbox is a Melee god and I never faced a Puff that spams rest. I definitely want another go.

DK is really good vs Puff and Cargo Upthrow to Uair is legit. Same goes with vs Samus and Luigi (it works at kill %s). Apparently at Apex I was confirmed the best DK at Cargo Upthrow to Uair on floaties (lolwat). Upthrow Uairing floaties for so many years with Fox helped since it's similar timing. I use the tap double jump + A to do it btw.

 

[Эикельманн [РУС]]

Doesn't work. I've been playing Hbox for like 8 years. It's not a legit combo, I swear.

 

[dahuterschuter]

Nah man, Donkey kick beats all of Jiggs' aerials. I think. Go for the aerial Giant Punch once it'll kill, and don't forget that you can pretty much, with proper timing, use utilt to smack her away if she's coming in say on Battlefield between the platforms. In general I think it's actually favourable to have Jiggs play above DK, because everywhere above DK is a danger zone, but then I don't know what the style of your opposing Jiggs is.

 

[NJzFinest]

DEF WORKS, TECH SKILL BABY

 

[Soupeschleg]

uP throw up air is real yo keep trapping my believers

I don't have evidence but sSEE me killin puf off the top and u alreadykno

 

[JRad]

I tested it at a smash fest today with 3-4 people playing puff. Unfortunately Hbox left before I got there, but it seemed like I was able to land it pretty consistently. You have to be on point reading the DI though because any hesitation and it won't work. I also wasn't able to connect it if I got a grab AT 74+ (somewhere around there) and then connect it into a uthrow uair. Didn't play any matches with jiggs today so don't know what its like to be under pressure. In this match (GR vs HBox) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XebYAYEYZlg, GR misses it every time so I am guessing its not that easy under pressure or he messed up. I've watched about 4-5 videos of various DK's vs. puffs and no one was really going for it past 60-70% and a lot of people didn't even try it at all. Ripple landed it the most of everyone I watched but he would always stop trying for it after 40. I don't think its technical at all, but you need really good reactions.

 

[Pud'N]

well nerves don't really change the frames. but yeah u do need to follow the di well. its pretty easy to follow but if u follow it wrong youre ina kinda bad position and theres nothing else aside from Uair u can get off of it unless they di waaaay behind u u could go for bair

 

[JRad]

I wouldn't say necessarily a bad position but the window to react is shorter than other characters it feels like. Usually its pretty easy to read their DI before the throw seeing as there is really only 2 directions (seeing as no DI still puts them infront of you slightly) they could possible go in anyway but thats the same same with every matchup.

 

[Ripple]

DK does not jump fast enough for it to be a real combo past like 40-50%.

you absolutely can not kill jiggs off of cargo throws

 

[NJzFinest]

You can 100% and I'll just keep doing it to every Jiggs I face lol. Luigi and Samus are MUCH harder but still possible too.

We've seen GR kill Duck's Samus with it. I landed it Hbox more than once, to the point where he had to ask me about it.

If DK is able to combo a floaty like Marth into a slow ass Forward air, I'm not sure how Uair on other floaties is not believable lol.

 

[Ripple]

first off, every DK main should know you can Cargo throw Samus and Luigi even though its extremely difficult.

2nd, Landing fair on marth is possible because of his fall speed/gravity, AND the fact that you most of the time, don't DJ in order to actually get him with the fair.

Marth (everyone really) will suffer almost the same stun regardless of % (it goes up by 2 frames every 10%) with 50% on marth having 42 frames of stun. So jump squat (6) + fair (25) gives us 12 frames of leeway if done perfect on marth. And fair hits because it comes out at the apex of our jump and hat's where marth is.

Jiggs is almost the exact same BUT we have to wait until we get to the apex of our full hop because she goes up so high so now you have to account frames rising during our jump.

6 + at least 25 for jump + 1 (DJ) + another 2-3 before up-air because youre not perfect all the time + uair (6). which is already hovering around 40 frames of time before a hotbox comes out. and these are some pretty rough calculations.

thats at 50%. add more % and jiggs is going to go higher faster than the stun needed to actually hit her.

 

[JRad]

Good analysis Ripple. Btw my main training partner (BluEG) is a luigi main. I stop going for cargo uthrow uair sometimes after about 32ish percent because then you can fair him for another 10 percent or so if he DI's infront of you or no DI. If he DI's behind you he is too floaty so when you fade back you will fall too low. When you hit him he will always be out of stun but there is nothing he can do to avoid the fair. Also cheezy but still works, if you have Luigi at like 40ish you can cargo -> jump offstage -> fthrow -> fair if he DIs in

Also Marth isn't nearly as floaty as jiggs and he is much bigger/heavier. Cargoing marth is incredibly easy and he can get hit by all of your aerials out of cargo at some point or another along the percentage spectrum (including dair which obviously doesn't work on jiggs...).

Edit: Did a money match against a luigi and watched some olds videos and realized that I actually do cargo uthrow uair against luigi well past 32 lol. My b...

 

[NJzFinest]

Lol Ripple so you admit Luigi and Samus are possible but not Jiggs? Fox cant even hit them at 0%

You can cargo upthrow Uair kill any character in the game. Move faster. In college I was stuck with so many Samus/Jiggs training partners so this **** is natural as hell to me.

Luigi is a *****, definitely the hardest. I wish my sets vs Tweek were recorded, but I landed that **** at like 100% damage.

I'm also glad that Hbox now believes it's a true combo on Jiggs after playing/talking to me #swag.

But really guys let's just play Fox, **** DK.

 

[Ripple]

Fox up throw has much less stun than DKs cargo throws at 0.

Cargo has a BKB of 90 and does 7%. Fox up throw has 75 BKB and technically does 2%.

Cargo throw speed is also not affected by weight where foxs is, Which is another reason why fox can't hurt them at low %


Stop arguing with me anyway. I took this game apart in debug mode. It isn't a combo past mid %.

Oh and landing a uair on Luigi at 100 isn't impressive to me at all considering I always get it up until 140. Which is when it stops being a combo

 

[NJzFinest]

I never really understood Fox's upthrow stun. Link is heavier than Mariobros/Samus and he can escape the Fox Uair too. Ylink is lighter than the Mariobros/Samus and he can escape the Fox Uair too.

I'm not trying to brag about landing a uair on Luigi at 100, I mentioned it because it's a generic high percent Jrad can't do it after 32 lol. I can easily do it at higher percents since I don't have problem with Jiggs.

Guess I'm the Puff slayer, AYO

 

[JRad]

I never really understood Fox's upthrow stun. Link is heavier than Mariobros/Samus and he can escape the Fox Uair too. Ylink is lighter than the Mariobros/Samus and he can escape the Fox Uair too.

I'm not trying to brag about landing a uair on Luigi at 100, I mentioned it because it's a generic high percent Jrad can't do it after 32 lol. I can easily do it at higher percents since I don't have problem with Jiggs.

Guess I'm the Puff slayer, AYO

I didn't say I couldn't, I just said I stop going for it .

 

[NJzFinest]

I have a feeling maybe Puff recovers from hitlag but has nothing fast enough to get away from a well timed/spaced Uair in that small space of time.

 

[ihasabuket]

first off, every DK main should know you can Cargo throw Samus and Luigi even though its extremely difficult.

2nd, Landing fair on marth is possible because of his fall speed/gravity, AND the fact that you most of the time, don't DJ in order to actually get him with the fair.

Marth (everyone really) will suffer almost the same stun regardless of % (it goes up by 2 frames every 10%) with 50% on marth having 42 frames of stun. So jump squat (6) + fair (25) gives us 12 frames of leeway if done perfect on marth. And fair hits because it comes out at the apex of our jump and hat's where marth is.

Jiggs is almost the exact same BUT we have to wait until we get to the apex of our full hop because she goes up so high so now you have to account frames rising during our jump.

6 + at least 25 for jump + 1 (DJ) + another 2-3 before up-air because youre not perfect all the time + uair (6). which is already hovering around 40 frames of time before a hotbox comes out. and these are some pretty rough calculations.

thats at 50%. add more % and jiggs is going to go higher faster than the stun needed to actually hit her.

Dk jump squat is 5 frames and if you use a rising upair (which njz finest did in the video vs Hbox) you wouldnt calculate the startup and DJ seperately. You dont include the 1 frame of DJ either unless he lost all of his vertical momentum. Assuming he DJ is at the very apex of his full hop it would be frame 25 (on frame 26 you no longer have vertical momentum left) plus 12 thats 37 frames. At 50% puff suffers 42 frames of hitstun according to you so you have 5 frames of wiggle room. Seeing as you can buffer a tap jump after cargo up throw with control stick id say this is very doable. In the video he throws him at 63% and still reaches him, in fact DKs hurtbox makes contact with puff and as you may know DK's upairs hitbox goes a bit above his head. This suggests you can do it at a higher %.

 

[Hagrid]

Is it possible that people's different experiences with this combo could be due to the fourth controller port trick which gives you better grab hitstun?

Just a thought.

 

[NJzFinest]

Is it possible that people's different experiences with this combo could be due to the fourth controller port trick which gives you better grab hitstun?

Just a thought.

Never heard of this lol. Is this actually a thing? LINK PLZ <3

 

[Hagrid]

Never heard of this lol. Is this actually a thing? LINK PLZ <3

http://smashboards.com/threads/how-port-priority-affects-throws.393128/

It's only a one frame advantage but as a DK player I take those!