DK Tactical Discussion: Official "Ask Strong Bad Stuff.. About Stuff" thread

[Jake The Preacher]

I recently starting playing as DK and i have to say im enjoying him so much. But i'm having a bit of a hard time making combos and such. I guess playing as Falco all them time is a a reason why. I was reading about his dash-grab techniques and I think I have it down. But I really would like to improve my DK because I think I can go far with him. So if anyone could give me some pointers I would really appreciate it.

If you want some quick damage you can do a cargo F throw into a fast nair, and you might can get one more. You've always got the classic cargo U throw and U air strings.

 

[KMAL]

If you want some quick damage you can do a cargo F throw into a fast nair, and you might can get one more. You've always got the classic cargo U throw and U air strings.

I've noticed that techniques in many of the matches I have been watching, ill have to look into it. Thanks for the tips. Much appreciated.

 

[CnB | Chandy]

In general, is it better to cargo u-throw from the ground and then try to chain up airs, or to short hop uthrow double jump up air? I've been alternating between using the two exclusively and I'm not sure that it can really be generalized across the board as far as which option is better.

From what I've observed, lightweight FFers (mostly spacies, but also certain characters like Roy) are usually pretty safe to cargo uthrow from the ground because there's not much risk of them double jumping out in time, and having the double jump saved as well lets you follow up with even more up airs on top of that. With floaties it's usually better to short hop or even full hop cargo uthrow, then double jump up air to ensure you hit, although with the super floaty types (Jiggs, Peach, Samus) there's little chance of getting more than one up air unless they're really dumb or at a very low percent anyway.

However, it's the mid-heavy weights with a kind of weird moderate falling speed that I can't always find the best option for. Characters like Ike, Link, Mario, Dorf, Lucario, Sonic, and to a certain extent Marth (although Marth has so much trouble coming down safely that I find it's better to just wait for him to come down into you rather than risk overextending yourself by the trying to follow him too closely).

Maybe I'm just overthinking it, but since uthrow into up-air is such an important part of DK's combo game, if there's something really simple I'm missing I'd like to hear an outside opinion on it.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

I think if there's not much knockback on the hits, no jump Cargo U throw and knock them with a U air then SHFFL it. If you can get a regrab, do it, if you can't but you can hit another SHFFL U air then do that as much as possible, if you can get them up pretty high in percent then maybe try a Nair or Fair as a finisher or an edgeguard setup. For those middleweights in the 3rd paragraph, try a cargo F throw and you can always get at least one Nair out of it, and sometimes you can get two. I usually do this near the edge because the second one blasts them so far off the stage that it can be real easy quick kills or a good edgeguard position. Got any other questions just ask me man

 

[CnB | Chandy]

Today someone told me up-B out of shield is better if I jump out of shield, but immediately jump cancel up-B instead. I've just been unshielding and using up-B. I also don't like playing with tap jump on, so I don't like bothering with the extra input either (X and b at the same time suuuuuuucks).

 

[Nannas]

If you have tap jump off you have to flick up on the c stick and then immediately input the up B. Yes it is much much better if not a staple for DK's matchups againts high pressure characters

 

[KMAL]

Today someone told me up-B out of shield is better if I jump out of shield, but immediately jump cancel up-B instead. I've just been unshielding and using up-B. I also don't like playing with tap jump on, so I don't like bothering with the extra input either (X and b at the same time suuuuuuucks).

I've heard that too and i don't seem to be benefiting from it. And yes i agree. X and B at the same time do suuuuuuuuck.

 

[CnB | Chandy]

I did some practice with it and yeah, shield-jump-cancel upB is much much better. I actually decided to set Y to special because 1)I never used Y to begin with and 2)it's actually pretty easy to hit X and Y in quick succession. It's still an unnecessary extra input but I hate tap jump that much that I'm willing to deal with it. Thanks for the help guys.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

How do you edge guard his up b?

 

[Nannas]

Any meteor in the game. lol

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Any meteor in the game. lol

Mario's is just .-.
I should really rephrase what I said.


Here's my question, you know that range where DK just auto snaps to the ledge after doing an up B? Can you just wavedash back and grab the ledge before DK?

 

[Nannas]

Most of the time that wont work because his arms will be in the way and you will get hit if you drop to early. The best way to handle dks auto snap is to actually drop below him and then attack him from under his arms because he is weak under his arms.
I guess you could wd back and grab the ledge but the timing would be really tight dependent on when they initiated the up b.

 

[Scuba Steve]

Mario's is just .-.
I should really rephrase what I said.


Here's my question, you know that range where DK just auto snaps to the ledge after doing an up B? Can you just wavedash back and grab the ledge before DK?

Dude, if you're Mario just cape that ****. Your bair can probably stuff his up-b too. People respect DK's space way too much on his up-b for the most part. You can really beat it out with pretty much any move you want. You can even dair it with Ganon from the side. Example of DK's range on his up-b hitboxes not being good.

 

[Boxer]

So I'm a Lucas main looking to pick up a pocket DK, mostly for doubles. I'll obviously work on my singles game to help with this, but does anyone know any useful strats or info for DK in doubles? I know Strong Bad is big into doubles, so I figure he could help with this, but since he doesn't really seem to frequent this board much anymore, all input is appreciated.

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

So out of all the project M versions, which version was DK considered the best in?

 

[Fortune]

So I'm a Lucas main looking to pick up a pocket DK, mostly for doubles. I'll obviously work on my singles game to help with this, but does anyone know any useful strats or info for DK in doubles? I know Strong Bad is big into doubles, so I figure he could help with this, but since he doesn't really seem to frequent this board much anymore, all input is appreciated.

- Know your combos on characters of different weights. If your teammate is keeping one of the opponents busy, you can really destroy the other opponent 1v1 if you get a combo starter (this applies most strongly to space animals + falcon, and most weakly to floaty, heavy characters).
- If the opponent ends up offstage, use your great aerial hitboxes to get a quick edgeguard.
- The #1 thing is that DK can get KOs really reliably with grab -> cargo -> jump -> forward/up/back throw -> jump -> fair/giant punch. If you practice this combo on characters of different weights at different %s and know which options to use, you will routinely get 75% of your team's KOs, as long as you can land those grabs. The combo itself can be tricky because you have to read their DI sometimes and choose the right throw, and you have to throw them at the right part of your jump. Characters that fall faster need to be thrown later, sometimes as you are falling from the jump, so that they stay above you when you double jump. Characters that fall more slowly need to be thrown earlier, as you are rising from the jump, otherwise they will simply be too high for you to hit them with the follow-up. This is all dependent on percent as well.

@ PillsBuryDopeBoy : You can see the changes between versions here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Donkey_Kong_(PM)

 

[PillsBuryDopeBoy]

- Know your combos on characters of different weights. If your teammate is keeping one of the opponents busy, you can really destroy the other opponent 1v1 if you get a combo starter (this applies most strongly to space animals + falcon, and most weakly to floaty, heavy characters).
- If the opponent ends up offstage, use your great aerial hitboxes to get a quick edgeguard.
- The #1 thing is that DK can get KOs really reliably with grab -> cargo -> jump -> forward/up/back throw -> jump -> fair/giant punch. If you practice this combo on characters of different weights at different %s and know which options to use, you will routinely get 75% of your team's KOs, as long as you can land those grabs. The combo itself can be tricky because you have to read their DI sometimes and choose the right throw, and you have to throw them at the right part of your jump. Characters that fall faster need to be thrown later, sometimes as you are falling from the jump, whereas characters that fall more slowly need to be thrown earlier, as you are rising from the jump, otherwise they will simply be too high for you to hit them with the follow-up. This is all dependent on percent as well.

@ PillsBuryDopeBoy : You can see the changes between versions here: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Donkey_Kong_(PM)

Indeed I already seen said wiki, and by the look of things 2.5b sounds the best. But I wanna also see peeps opinions as well.

 

[Boxer]

- Know your combos on characters of different weights. If your teammate is keeping one of the opponents busy, you can really destroy the other opponent 1v1 if you get a combo starter (this applies most strongly to space animals + falcon, and most weakly to floaty, heavy characters).
- If the opponent ends up offstage, use your great aerial hitboxes to get a quick edgeguard.
- The #1 thing is that DK can get KOs really reliably with grab -> cargo -> jump -> forward/up/back throw -> jump -> fair/giant punch. If you practice this combo on characters of different weights at different %s and know which options to use, you will routinely get 75% of your team's KOs, as long as you can land those grabs. The combo itself can be tricky because you have to read their DI sometimes and choose the right throw, and you have to throw them at the right part of your jump. Characters that fall faster need to be thrown later, sometimes as you are falling from the jump, so that they stay above you when you double jump. Characters that fall more slowly need to be thrown earlier, as you are rising from the jump, otherwise they will simply be too high for you to hit them with the follow-up. This is all dependent on percent as well.

Thanks, that's super helpful. Definitely need to work on reliably hitting off of the cargo setups. Anyone DK is particularly good against other than fastfallers/spacies?

 

[TopTierPichu]

I don't know if this is the proper thread to ask, but is DK supposed to accelerate if he does his dash attack off a ledge?

 

[Fortune]

@ B Boxer I feel DK is strong against Roy. When roy is at 0%, you can do grab -> cargo -> up throw -> sh up-air -> land -> full hop up-air -> another up-air as you are falling from your full hop.

 

[Strong Badam]

So I'm a Lucas main looking to pick up a pocket DK, mostly for doubles. I'll obviously work on my singles game to help with this, but does anyone know any useful strats or info for DK in doubles? I know Strong Bad is big into doubles, so I figure he could help with this, but since he doesn't really seem to frequent this board much anymore, all input is appreciated.

I use Wario most of the time in Doubles, but DK can do well against some team compositions, particularly ones that don't have projectiles. DK has great positional throws with cargo f/bthrow, which are important in teams, but they can take too long in some situations. DK should focus on racking up damage with techchases (downb) and sandwich combos (nair/bair and his tilts mostly). Use SideB to stall if you ever need to wait for your opponent while trying to recover.

 

[Ogopogo]

How well does DK do against Mewtwo?

 

[Scuba Steve]

How well does DK do against Mewtwo?

Not well

 

[CnB | Chandy]

Not well at all. DK is prone to painful, agonizing failure against characters with only decent juggle games, but against a character like Mewtwo with one of the best juggling toolsets in the game, it's even worse. Luckily Shadowball isn't too good of a projectile so it's hard to get camped, but in general you can't make many errors against higher level Mewtwo players. DK doesn't have the tools to properly edgeguard Mewtwo's kickass recovery, although I'm not sure many characters do anyway.

Play it like any floaty matchup; choose your combo opportunities carefully and try not to rely on cargo uthrow too much, because it's not a guaranteed combo starter like it is in other weight/fallspeed classes. Mewtwo's got great range too, but don't hesitate to throw out ftilts and dtilts if you need breathing room. Like other floaties, plain old downthrow can lead to great followups at mid-high percents. Uair is a more of a kill move than a juggling tool against Mewtwo since he's so light and floaty. Treat it like Fox's uair, and you can surprise yourself with how early it'll kill.

Giant Punch is a great tool to use in any light floaty matchup because it'll kill so early, and it's decently fast and ends pretty quickly. If your opponent isn't too aggressive and doesn't seem like he wants to approach, don't hesitate to circle camp the stage a bit and charge your punch with quick single swings. This is actually really easy to do on bigger stages like Dream Land, Dracula's Castle, Distant Planet, Skyloft, and Skyworld, although I wouldn't particularly recommend taking a Mewtwo to any of those places. Having a Giant Punch in your pocket gives you a lot of options for early KOs that are so important against floaties, who are really tough to chain attacks on at higher percents.

Also, on some of the smaller stages, backthrow is a viable KO move because of Mewtwo's really low weight. Because DK spends most of his time using his cargo throws, people will rarely DI the backthrow correctly if they don't see it coming.

 

[bËst^]

never mind. Posted this on other topic

 

[Heero Yuy]

Can anyone please explain to me DK's neutral game? I find him rather fun to use and would like to use him more often.

Am also curious if you guys think he's good against Toon Link, one of my least favorite matchups as Link.

 

[SSS]

What determines what move will knock your opponent out of the side-B bury?

Based Strong Badam pls

 

[Jake The Preacher]

What determines what move will knock your opponent out of the side-B bury?

Based Strong Badam pls

I think it's a combination of damage and knockback. I could be wrong since I'm just guessing, but that's what I think it is

 

[leekslap]

Hello I'm new! I want to pick up DK because I'm done learning the basics with Mario and I've seen you play and I read your guide , but, one thing you didn't mention in your guide is SECONDARIES( capitalozed to attroct attentian ).

I know DK is a punching bag for projectiles and combos and floaties so, what character can deal with those weaknesses? I think someone defensive or anti combo like Link, Zelda and Pit could be good but, I don't know much so help me out and you'll be less lonely

 

[JRad]

Pit is not a bad matchup at all. Link is doable because we combo him super hard. Zelda is tough. I play DK and Kirby and seem to find a good mix

 

[jayy]

Link and mario seem to be good secondaries, though they're really good secondaries to every character. Disjointed hitboxes help a lot.

 

[leekslap]

Pit is not a bad matchup at all. Link is doable because we combo him super hard. Zelda is tough. I play DK and Kirby and seem to find a good mix

I meant that Pit, Link and Zelda could be good secondaries not bad MUs. Can you explain why Kirby is good cuz I'm not seeing it.

Link and mario seem to be good secondaries, though they're really good secondaries to every character. Disjointed hitboxes help a lot.

Good thing I have Mario practice then! Link might be a hard switch but I wiil try. One weakness I still see with faster characters like Falco and Meta Knight so I need something for that.

 

[JRad]

Kirby is good in the floaty matchups due to his dthrow chaingrab/set ups and aerial combos. He is also really good against falco because you can crouch under SH lasers or just jump above them. It is incredibly easy to gimp falco, if you throw him off he should be dead. You also have low percent grab combo like fthrow ->> nair -> regrab -> fthrow -> uair -> utilt. I am not saying Kirby is the best secondary but he seems to be a good fit for me

 

[Child Star]

I played in a tourney yesterday and I have very little match experience against multiple characters, one of them being Ike. On FD this ike chain grabbed me across the entire stage, I tried tech in both directions, but it wasn't to my benefit. Did this Ike just read me an unnatural amount of times or is DK just the perfect size/ weight for ike to pull this off?

 

[Scuba Steve]

I played in a tourney yesterday and I have very little match experience against multiple characters, one of them being Ike. On FD this ike chain grabbed me across the entire stage, I tried tech in both directions, but it wasn't to my benefit. Did this Ike just read me an unnatural amount of times or is DK just the perfect size/ weight for ike to pull this off?

If you are getting the chance to tech, then it is not a chaingrab and is instead a tech chase. If you notice that your opponent is going for regrabs a lot in tech chases, try not teching and waiting for them to whiff the grab

 

[Child Star]

If you are getting the chance to tech, then it is not a chaingrab and is instead a tech chase. If you notice that your opponent is going for regrabs a lot in tech chases, try not teching and waiting for them to whiff the grab

Thanks a million, I'll give it a go ASAP.

 

[TreK]

Something a lot of people do, is that they roll towards the center of the stage because they're afraid of being offstage. Knowing this makes it very easy for the opponent to follow up. So make sure you don't fall into that habit.

Another thing a lot of people do is to roll away, as far as they can from their opponent. Again, if you get predictable, you will be punished for it.

I heard mango rolls the stick so that the direction of his tech is entirely random. I wouldn't exactly bet on it, but eh, it works for him.

Basically just try to watch yourself play and see if it's because you are predictable that the opponent is able to follow up so consistently.

And as Scuba said, not teching is, sometimes, a viable option as well. When DK is on his back, his get up attack is one of the best in the game (you have a different get up attack whether you are laying on your back or your belly) and teching doesn't let you use it.

/2cents

 

[Child Star]

For a while I know I was getting too predictable with non-tech options, as my training buddy would shield grab the get up attack, but if I see them investing in a tech chase I'll give it a go, see if that keeps them guessing.

 

[Jake The Preacher]

If you come to the meetup tonight or Friday night I'll hit the lab with you

 

[Scuba Steve]

For a while I know I was getting too predictable with non-tech options, as my training buddy would shield grab the get up attack, but if I see them investing in a tech chase I'll give it a go, see if that keeps them guessing.

You don't have to use just a get up attack when you don't tech. If you see him shield right next to you while you're on the ground, just roll away. There are 3 other get up options besides get up attack