Work In Progress DK Patch 1.1.1 Changes

[Big O]

Confirmed changes

Global
- Bonus Shield damage on getup attacks nerfed +10 -> +8
- Back Roll and Forward Roll invincibility durations nerfed 1 frame
- All moves deal more shieldstun
- Shield lock frames overlap with shieldstun now, so there is much less of a penalty for missing the timing of a powershield
- Powershielding window nerfed 4 frames -> 3 frames
- Powershielding reduces shieldstun to the pre-patch values (before it only negated shield damage, recoil, and shield drop lag)
- All moves infilict shieldhitlag equal to the attack's hitlag (now hitlag only affects safety on projectiles)

- Bonus Shield damage on all Side B's nerfed +30 -> +25
- Bonus Shield damage on all Punches nerfed +2 -> +0

Unconfirmed changes

-

Deconfirmed placebos

- Uair kb unchanged
- Cargo Utoss kb unchanged

In summary, shield mechanics have been reworked to be consistent across all attacks and shieldstun has been buffed to slightly higher than Melee levels. Bonus shield damage has been toned down a little to compensate for most characters with high shield damage moves.

 

[NeoRed]

DK up throw does 60% damage

 

[RomanceDawn]

DK up throw does 60% damage

Wow that's a heck of a buff! DK SSS tier!

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that they nerfed the Uair's knockback a bit. I was testing the Cargo Uthrow against Sheik; pre-patch I was able to KO her around 68% but now I only managed to do that at 72% instead. So it's that or Sheik simply got a little obese.

 

[Big O]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I feel that they nerfed the Uair's knockback a bit. I was testing the Cargo Uthrow against Sheik; pre-patch I was able to KO her around 68% but now I only managed to do that at 72% instead. So it's that or Sheik simply got a little obese.

I was able to KO at 68%. Perhaps you tested using the 3DS version, which has larger blastzones.

 

[Ryu Myuutsu]

I was able to KO at 68%. Perhaps you tested using the 3DS version, which has larger blastzones.

Yes, it was the 3DS version, though I do remember being able to KO Sheik at 68% on FD and Battlefield Omega regardless. It might be worth to add however that I tested this on Duck Hunt Omega so that may have affected; or perhaps I was merely to slow doing the inputs. Oh well, my bad then.

 

[Neonicus]

I've tested if DK gets pushed back when hitting a shield in the air with the DK punch. It pushed the opponent instead of me. Could you test this and confirm whether they fixed this or not?

 

[Neonicus]

Also, was wondering what >BONUS< shield damage is?

 

[Subearoo]

According to the patch thread for v. 1.1.1 here: http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/

Shield stun has been increased:
Shield stun mechanics altered: formula assumed: [(damage / 1.8)+3] over (damage/2.56) [?]

so despite giant punch and headbutt having less shield damage on paper it should be fairly easy to combo giant punch into headbutt or headbutt into something like jab jab for a shield break. Also it should be easier to shield break with hand slap. Thoughts?

 

[Slowchamp]

DK up throw does 60% damage

it also cures cancer

 

[dahuterschuter]

So does headbutt still break shields in one hit?

 

[Subearoo]

It never did.

So does headbutt still break shields in one hit?

 

[DomBadZZZ]

We should start trying to figure out what moves are safe on shield now and which ones can lead to shield breaks.... I keep hearing how this change will be bad for big characters but I'm hoping @DKwill will stream and teach us how to deal with this.

 

[Gurpwnder]

Also, was wondering what >BONUS< shield damage is?

So in Smash 4, a shield has 50% "health".
Every %age of damage an attack does decreases the shield "health" by the same amount.
DK's clean b-air will do 13% damage to a shield, f-tilt will do 10%, etc.

So after considering this, you may be asking yourself "If headbutt does 10% damage, why does it do so much damage to a shield?" The answer to this question is that a headbutt had +30 EXTRA shield damage. That is to say, it did 10% damage PLUS 30 = 40 damage to a shield, which is 4/5 of a shield drained immediately for them blocking a headbutt.

Now, it doesn't do 40 damage to a shield, but 35.
I believe this is because of the increase to blockstun in general in patch 1.1.1, which means that shields will now naturally be drained more from EVERY attack because they will now be kept up slightly longer with the added blockstun.

Someone please call me out if I'm giving any wrong information.

 

[MaximalGFX]

Can we no longer reverse neutral-B in the air? (Might only be me, haven't played in quite a long time, so I might simply not be able to pull it off anymore.)

 

[DaRkJaWs]

I personally haven't played since smashcon, and this patch change is exactly what I was looking for. DK is much more agile than most ppl realize and now he can actually be played that way. The types of ppl I used to lose to (only high level players) were ones that knew staying in shield and not initiating vs me always worked. Now they can't do that, but of course perfect shielding still works. I wonder how often dk can do short hop double back air and get away with it being blocked due to shield stun? Can someone test this?

 

[BlastHappyNinja]

According to the patch thread for v. 1.1.1 here: http://smashboards.com/threads/magical-engimatic-land-1-1-1-patch-notes.419067/

Shield stun has been increased:
Shield stun mechanics altered: formula assumed: [(damage / 1.8)+3] over (damage/2.56) [?]

so despite giant punch and headbutt having less shield damage on paper it should be fairly easy to combo giant punch into headbutt or headbutt into something like jab jab for a shield break. Also it should be easier to shield break with hand slap. Thoughts?

Down B near the ledge for days.

 

[Brickbox]

I feel bad for asking this here but could someone explain the universal shield mechanic changes? Please explain it really simply because I don't have the time or the patience to read in depth about.

Sucks that our shield breaker got nerfed.

 

[Gurpwnder]

I feel bad for asking this here but could someone explain the universal shield mechanic changes? Please explain it really simply because I don't have the time or the patience to read in depth about.

Sucks that our shield breaker got nerfed.

Long story short: Shieldstun was increased across the board.

 

[Brickbox]

Ok, that is what I thought. Shield drop is still the same amount of frames but now you have to wait more frames until you can shield drop.

Can F smash be spaced correctly and impossible to punish for some characters now?
How do you think the universal change will effect DK?

 

[Slowchamp]

Ok, that is what I thought. Shield drop is still the same amount of frames but now you have to wait more frames until you can shield drop.

Can F smash be spaced correctly and impossible to punish for some characters now?
How do you think the universal change will effect DK?

well shielding was one of the few ways to deal with projectiles, so im dreading to see if it affects DK negatively in the long run. power shielding is the same though. offensively im curious how it affects grounded Up-B on shield and Down-B on shield

 

[Gurpwnder]

Well, we lose many free shieldgrab opportunities we had before, which is definitely a shame.

My hopes are that late b-air from max range can be safe on block, AC n-air on shield gives us a free grab attempt, max range d-tilt is safe on shield, tipper jab can be safe on shield, we can safely punch / FSmash Zamus' shield from max range, but we'll see how it all plays out.

It looks like our access to armor is definitely going to play a bigger role now than before. Charge those punches, lads.

 

[DK-RULES]

Keep those discoveries coming!!!

 

[dahuterschuter]

So do we have lots of guaranteed shieldbreak combos like Ryu yet?

 

[Cheesle]

side b spike is back baby

 

[Slowchamp]

side b spike is back baby

I noticed the 'Spike' noise too! and a new effect? its range is still only 1/2 as much as the grounded side-b, despite DK's head enlarging only in the air version.

 

[DaRkJaWs]

Side b already spiked, did it change in this patch in some way to get better or something? Or are you guys just that clueless

 

[DK-RULES]

Did it improve somehow? I knew it spiked but I rarely used it because it was hard to get the right spot to spike. ????

 

[Slowchamp]

Side b already spiked, did it change in this patch in some way to get better or something? Or are you guys just that clueless

I've never heard it make that spike noise before. if its been there the whole time then its news to me, sorry.

 

[Gurpwnder]

It always did, but it required the opponent to be at a high %age, given the low base knockback and low knockback growth.

It also needed a sweetspot when performed in the air, so that could be the reason you didn't see it often beforehand.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

I'm not a DK player but... Wasn't downB a Shield-breaking option? Might it see some improvement from the shieldstun change? The recovery from the move is pretty atrocious so dunno if you can follow up the pressure...

 

[Gurpwnder]

I'm not a DK player but... Wasn't downB a Shield-breaking option? Might it see some improvement from the shieldstun change? The recovery from the move is pretty atrocious so dunno if you can follow up the pressure...

As far as I can tell, it's identical to pre-patch. No changes in how it's used.