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Dixie Kong's Barrel Of Support Spirits! Who Will Be The Final Fighter?

BirthNote

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FINALLY READY TO POST THIS! Wanted to get things right before sharing, and heeeeeeeeeeeeeeere it is!

We've got a brand new category for potential Dixie movesets. For this entry, we have Gum. These are instances where Dixie uses Bubblegum for potential attacks; it's pretty straightforward, and there's a handful of uses for it, and here's the first:

Using her Gumball Popgun, Dixie fires a salvo of gumballs on the ground! The marbles hit the floor and travel forward as a cluster; anyone who touches them will trip and slide slightly, leaving them vulnerable to future attacks. Charging the move allows Dixie to fire off more gumballs and the cluster will travel further.

This is basically creating a mobile Tripping Zone, and you're able to influence its size and the distance it travels. Here's some extra details:

As you can see, the gumballs have a few properties on the whole. The speed is also affected by the charge time; the gumballs have a time limit so they won't reach their max distance unless fully charged, and throughout its lifespan the cluster gets smaller. This is because the gumballs vanish one by one throughout until there are none left. The Max Distance should be influenced by fighter balancing, but for this diagram the distance is respectable. (Personally I'd make it longer but I'm being fair lol). Overall, this cluster is most effective at Full Charge and close to Dixie, since it'll create a large Tripping Zone that'll only diminish as it travels outward.

So, this is a mobile Tripping Zone that's chargeable and clearly works on the ground. But is that all there is to this move? Nope:

Standing by a ledge allows Dixie to fire gumballs below! It's always at a fixed angle, but the balls will spread out as they travel. The hitbox takes on a Fan-Like shape that'll only get wider; that's good for hitting more foes but makes it less effective for touching the ground. Individual balls vanish throughout the lifespan, so firing off a ledge makes less touch the ground and a smaller cluster. This is good for edgeguarding somewhat, as airborne targets will suffer weak but racked up hits. If your foe is on the ground and you fire from above, they'll simply trip. Same applies if Dixie uses this move in the air.

OKAY! That was a lengthy description for this move, and there's a lot of influences and inspirations behind this. FIRST, I've seen the concept of Dixie using gumballs to make people trip elsewhere, so the basic concept is not something I alone brainstormed. SECOND, this move is inspired by both Diddy Kong (guess which ones) and Zero Suit Samus. For Diddy, we have a popgun as a Special; Diddy uses Peanuts and Dixie uses Gumballs. The differences are obvious; Diddy's is an airborne grabbable projectile while Dixie's is a grounded non grabbable projectile. Unlike Diddy's popgun this makes foes trip, so it brings to mind his Bananas. This move has a wider range than Diddy's, and it's mobile which makes it more dangerous. It doesn't last as long as an idle banana, so that's a consolation. For Samus, this move mimics the pose of her Down Smash. Not completely but the resemblance is striking. They got similar hairstyles and they're blondes, so my headcanon is that Dixie looks up to her. Both moves stun/disable their victims so the blend of Diddy's Down B, Neutral B and Samus's Down Smash is appropriate.

Bearing all this in mind, we're looking at a Neutral Special. It could also be Forward or Down, but I'll go with Neutral. This move is a chargeable mobile Tripping Zone with size and speed that's influenced by charge time. Very in-depth description, and I wanna thank Laniv Laniv for suggesting Lucario. He's the "lucky" demonstrator for this move, but it's relatively benign so I don't think his fans will be too upset.

When you get the chance, please put this on Twitter! This is a lengthy description so feel free to trim it as much as you like. If you want the description to be as blunt as possible, go right ahead!

For those who haven't seen it, I have a bunch of moveset ideas compiled into a Google Doc. Feel free to look it over; it's best viewed on Google Drive and Desk/Laptops. Tons of variety:
There's also many excellent ideas in the OP by various users. Check those out as well if you haven't already! Until next time.
 

BirthNote

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That's freaking creative! And it works so well! A moving trip attack. An idea pulled out of the deepest nightmares of people who played Super Smash Brothers Brawl. But it works so well.

Let me post it on Friday if that's ok with you!

And I like Dixie's expression!
Thank you! Especially regarding her face. I wanted to give Dixie that goofy monkey "Ooooooh" face to highlight the silliness of it all. Also sure, Friday is perfectly fine. Maybe I can get a drawing of Rayman out before Friday lol
 

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BirthNote

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Thanks Seashore! I have at least one other concept for the gun and I'll show it relatively soon.

So, after seeing a Twitter post regarding Squawks, Quawks and Tawks I realized we never speculated on new Animal Buddies for hypothetical games. Therefore, what type of Animal Buddy would y'all come up with, if given the chance?

For me, I think a giant praying mantis that creates razor winds could be something. It can walk on walls and turf, has a projectile in the form of razor winds and hold barrels.

That's what I thought up. It's probably not a solid idea but I'm just spitballing and not giving it much thought.
 

Mushroomguy12

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A Dixie calendar.

 

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Hey so I'm going to give a history of Dixie's speculation lifespan from my perspective. It's a ridiculously long post but I was charitable and thorough.

To my knowledge, Dixie's support didn't really begin until Brawl. Once Diddy got announced back in 2007 a bunch of fandoms speculated on more DK characters getting in. The biggest option was K. Rool, especially due to Subspace's cutscene of DK's bananas being stolen. "Maybe Bowser and K. Rool teamed up to lure the Kongs" was the early theory.

Brawl released and Diddy was the only DK newcomer. Post Brawl speculation began and potential characters came up. K. Rool again was the biggest DK choice, and Dixie came up occasionally as an alternative. Back then, her main support came in the form of a tagteam like the Ice Climbers. "Pair Diddy and Dixie for the next game" was a common thought. They were a team in DKC2 and the next game should reference that. Her Brawl data reinforced that mindset; add K. Rool and pair the Kong kids, then boom! DK is complete.

We're still in post Brawl speculation; K. Rool got the lion's share of DK speculation, but as DKC Returns released in 2011 fans were upset with no sign of K. Rool or Dixie, leading to fears that both would be forgotten. Skeptics of DK in general would point to DKCR as a point against both. "DKC gets a revival and the 2 'frontrunners' are nowhere to be seen. Obviously, DK, Diddy and Cranky are the only mainstays, and Cranky has no potential lol" is a mindset that came up often, not exactly word for word but the general idea is there. Here, K. Rool became heavily speculated, with many crying out for his return as a counterbalance to his absence in DKCR. It became more "We NEED K. Rool back" than anything.

Dixie was never on equal footing with speculation but by this point she was barely considered by and large. When she did come up, she was dismissed outside of tagteam as a clone, and back then the fandom hated clones. For those unaware, Clone was basically an Echo, so Melee Roy, Pichu, Melee Falco, Ganondorf, Toon Link, Dr. Mario were considered Clones, while Brawl Falco, Lucas, Luigi and Wolf were called Semi-Clones. Echo didn't come out until late into Smash 4 speculation (2014) and they didn't get positive reception until 2018. Post Brawl speculation was from 2008 to 2013, so the attitude towards non unique characters was generally negative, and many used Dixie as an example of a clone that should not be picked over K. Rool. If she or Bowser Jr would ever get in, they'd be obvious clones and wastes of slots over much more deserving characters. The split became clear. Those who insisted Dixie wouldn't be a Clone, like myself, were doubted harshly. "What can she do besides an Up B that DK has?" She looks like Diddy, is his girlfriend, and debuted in a game as his partner and hasn't done much besides that (DKC3 was still widely hated and overlooked at this time). Her best shot is as a tagteam or else we're wasting a slot on her that is better suited to K. Rool.

That's been the prevailing mindset from 2008-2013. Certainly overshadowed by K. Rool, and attacked by different factions. You had groups that disliked DK in general saying we only need DK and Diddy; K. Rool is just a Bowser knockoff owned by Microsoft and Jr is the only suitable clone, and Dixie is an irrelevant clone who should only get in if with Diddy. Within the fandom you had fans who only wanted K. Rool and saw Dixie as a threat, and vice versa. DKC2 was getting a renewed focus and many came to appreciate Diddy, Dixie and K. Rool, so the latter 2 picked up fans and joined the discussions and factions.

Now we move onto Smash 4 speculation. It's 2013, we get Villager, Mega Man and Wii Fit Trainer announced and fandoms are ablaze with excitement. The K. Rool vs Dixie fandoms got more hostile, as Tropical Freeze makes its debut and Dixie Kong is shown in action...with no Kremlings in sight. It seems the outcry for K. Rool to return to DKC was ignored and met with a brand new set of villains; a case of hearing the criticisms and adjusting but not giving the fans what they want. Fans of K. Rool were understably threatened. "K. Rool is irrelevant" became hard to dispute now; he's been gone since 2008 (Mario Super Sluggers), replaced yet again with new enemies and his rival who also was last seen in 2008 is now alive and kicking in the sequel to the VERY well loved DKCR. He'd missed the boat twice and his detractors, both Dixie Supporters and Non-DK fans eagerly pointed this out.

For Dixie's fans, DKCTF was EXCELLENT news. A playable role in a new mainline game, announced the same day as Smash 4 and showed off some new moves meant Dixie's likelihood shot up greatly. It wasn't as big as K. Rool's fandom but the Smash community as a whole began to consider her and take the idea seriously. More people began to show support and a closer look at her moveset potential began. Tagteam was still an option, but people began to push for her own slot, especially after Sheik, ZS Samus and Charizard got separated. With the potential for her own slot, the Clone notion got examined; many detractors insisted she'd still be another Diddy but there was notable pushback. Maybe she'd be paired with Kiddy to honor her own game, maybe she'd be a Semi-Clone like Wolf or Lucas, or maybe she'd get the Bowser Jr treatment and get a set nobody expected. Dixie's Smash 4 speculation could ride the hype of Tropical Freeze as the 2 games would release in the same year it seemed.

On the flip side, K. Rool's chances looked dire. The rivalry between his fans and Dixie's was at its worst, with flamewars erupting in both the Kutthroats' and the Girl With The Whirl's threads. "It's an insult for her to get in over him!" was the mindset of the Kroc's fans and "He's irrelevant now, get over it!" was the mindset of the Kong's fans. K. Rool always had the bigger fandom, and they were louder as well. Fans of neither would get dogpiled if they came to trash talk K. Rool in his own thread and it became clear he had some very passionate fans, and while he had no modern games to his name he still picked up support. Still, the fear that not only would K. Rool miss Smash 4 haunted the Kutthroats, but that he'd never show up again began to rack their brains.

Months into Smash 4's hype cycle and still no sign of any new DK characters. It seemed odd, DKCTF had been on people's radars despite the contentious road to release, as Metroid fans also attacked the game, both as official journalists and general fans. Other mainstay series like Mario and surprisingly Fire Emblem got multiple characters, all while the Dixie vs K. Rool drama got worse and worse.

We're in 2014 now and Tropical Freeze released to wide acclaim... among the few who played it. Bad Faith actors from both K. Rool's fandom and non-DK fans used TF's meager sales as justification for different things. In K. Rool's case, his fans insisted it didn't do well because he's not in it, while those who weren't fond of DK insisted the sales were proof that DK isn't a major franchise and that DK and Diddy are all the Smash series needs. The Wii U's install base was too low and that's why it didn't beat Returns in terms of sales; proportionately to its install base it sold very well. Dixie's support still trended upwards for being the preferred Kong however, but the venom between fandoms was still fresh. Eventually, a prevailing mindset formed among the factions: "Why are we raiding each other's threads over characters from the same series? This is stupid; if Mario, Pokemon and Fire Emblem can get more than one character per game, why not DK? It's a flagship franchise right?"

The mindset above began to grow and the Dixie vs K. Rool drama slowly died down. There wasn't comradery but the factions tended to stick to their own threads. Some were fans of both and the hostility faded. During that time I started posting moveset ideas to fight the "LOL Diddy clone" mindset and others did as well. The factions were now on neutral terms; K. Rool's fandom was still thriving and Dixie's was still growing.

As Smash 4 released, we saw that there were no DK characters added. Tropical Freeze barely had any content beyond its E3 trailer music, and the latest remixes were of Jungle Hijinxs, bringing the total number of songs to about 8 variations of the same theme. DK got shafted; now it seemed like Nintendo AND Sakurai couldn't care less about DK beyond the bare minimum, and would rather show favoritism to the far smaller Fire Emblem. Sakurai bias became a common thought, and Fire Emblem became the target of not just DK's factions, but of mostly all the fandoms involved with Smash. "If it's not an anime blue-haired swordsman [Insert Character] has no chance" and "Too many swordsmen" were very common criticisms, in fact they were memes. Accusations of Corporate Picks became widespread, and the broader Smash community had a common target, despite Fire Emblem having many fans.

DLC began to roll out, and with it the return of Mewtwo, Lucas and Roy. DLC speculation was pretty tame until Ryu and Cloud showed up; that signaled a trend towards 3rd Party speculation, but Nintendo characters still had the focus. Corrin's arrival got some notable groans and reinforced the Sakurai Bias/Corporate Picks memes and criticisms, but DLC speculation didn't take off until the Ballot was announced. From here, every fandom you could think of, whether it was Rayman's, Snake's, Crash Bandicoot, Banjo-Kazooie and hundreds of others, and I do mean HUNDREDS got a boost in popularity. Naturally that meant Dixie got a boost as well, and so did K. Rool's, whose kutthroats mobilized like never before. You know the rest of course: Bayonetta got announced as the winner and most of those HUNDREDS of fandoms were outright disputing this in the harshest tones; while some were happy, many were EXTREMELY doubtful that she was the winner, and quite a few fandoms had animosity towards Bayonetta, Fire Emblem, Sakurai Bias and Corporate Picks. Regardless though, Smash 4 speculation was over; Dixie's fanbase was disappointed along with K. Rool's and plenty of others.

With Smash 4 wrapped up and the Wii U dead, the fandoms went back to Square 1. At the same time, rumors of a new Nintendo system were flying around. The NX was gonna be unveiled soon, and a new console meant a new Smash. Fanbases remained dormant or operated under the radar, and during a Nintendo Direct, Ultimate which was unnamed at the time got a stealth announcement via what we thought was a new Splatoon. The fandoms got back to speculating and Ultimate got officially unveiled in E3 2018.

Along with that reveal came the term Echo Fighters, a rebranding of what we as the fandom called Clones and an in-depth description of what it meant. Dark Pit and Lucina got the designation, and Daisy became the first newcomer to get the Echo Fighter label. Unlike before, where Echo Fighters were reviled among most of the fandom, the concept got a very positive reception. They were no longer wastes of slots and now seen as bonus additions and interesting tweaks to an established moveset. We got word from Sakurai that not many fighters will be added this time, and with the realization that Echoes could be a way to add characters without development costs skyrocketing, support for these types of fighters ballooned up. Of course, Dixie's support grew rapidly; she's familiar, Tropical Freeze got a re-release and is getting appreciated, she looks like Diddy and fans still want K. Rool. Rather than have them compete for slots we can get both; one gets a fully unique moveset while the other is the bonus addition, everyone walks away with something, right?

Actually, no. K. Rool's still an uncertainty at this point. It's June 2018; the most reference he's got is as a Mii Costume and that left a bad taste in fans' mouths. There was a huge Ballot campaign but Nintendo is notorious for ignoring fans' wishes so there's uneasiness in the air. Dixie's getting renewed focus but most of it is as an Echo fighter, which is upsetting many like myself who want her to be a full-fledged fighter if not wholly unique. The fandoms aren't exactly attacking each other and mostly keeping to their own realms. Fortunately K. Rool gets announced in July 2018 to roaring applause and rapturous appreciation for Sakurai, leaving Dixie Kong as the remaining prominent DK character. Speculation regarding her centers mostly on being an Echo. Richter and Dark Samus were announced the same day as K. Rool and Simon; Dark Samus's and Richter's lesser popularity in relation to Ridley and Simon led to many educated guesses about how Dixie would fit in relation to K. Rool. The mindset boiled down to "All these vets means less time for newcomers. To make everyone happy some will have to be Echoes; K. Rool's more popular and he's in. Making Dixie unique means we're shafting another series and there's not much room. Echo or Nothing."

A new split in the Dixie Kong fandom began. We had people who were fine with Dixie being an Echo and those who weren't, myself included. On the Echo side, there were fans of Dixie who liked the concept of Echoes along with those who wanted Dixie to at least be playable; there were also non-fans who believed Echo is all she'll get, some leaning to 'I don't see why not' and others asserting that otherwise she shouldn't be considered since there's more deserving characters. On the Non-Echo side, you had those who wanted a Semi-Clone in the vein of Luigi, Lucas or Wolf, and those who insisted that Dixie can be wholly unique, with a moveset built specifically for her. Personally I'm Semi-Clone or wholly unique. This led to often heated cycles of discourse; the pro Echo side would claim that they're being silenced and the opposition was being unreasonable. The Semi-Clone and Unique side claimed that wanting Dixie to be a tweak of Diddy brings us back to the days of detractors insisting she can't do much beyond him, and that a Dixie who behaves like Diddy might as well be an alt. By accepting Echo, all their support in showing how she's more than Diddy in Drag gets erased. The Pro Echo side would point to Dark Samus and eventually Chrom as how an Echo can remain distinct from their original, which did win over some undecided observers. If Dixie gets Dark Samus's level of distinct animations and Chrom-level tweaks, she should please all involved many said. That however didn't fly with those who didn't want an Echo; extensive video analysis of Chrom's gameplay showed he only had a different Up B, and Dark Samus's animations mainly differed in Idle Animations, which in a Fighting Game is not too remarkable. The discourse remained contentious and bordered on hostile; fans of Dixie would point to DKC2 and Tropical Freeze to point out the levels of distinction Diddy and Dixie had; they had nothing in common outside of bodyshape in DKC2 during an era of using recolored models as separate characters (Luigi's debut in Mario Bros.) and very few things in common in Tropical Freeze. Why then, the Unique crowd asked, should she mimic Diddy when she barely ever did in her home series? We asserted that Dixie needs a moveset that emphasizes her hair extensively, and that Diddy's tail failed to do anything of the sort.

The Unique vs Echo discussion flared up at regular intervals during Ultimate's hype cycle. There were always some in favor and others strongly against it, and the discussions went in circles until Isabelle was announced. Like Bowser Jr, she was expected by the Smash community to be an Echo of Villager the way the Koopa Prince was expected to mimic his dad. She instead got in as what we'd call a Semi-Clone to all our surprise. This boosted my stance: it's possible to get a Dixie who at least has enough variations to not be an Echo as there's a character who disproved the mindset. The Unique or Semi-Clone side got to work parading and pointing at Isabelle as potential options for a Dixie Kong moveset, putting her in the company of Luigi, Lucas and Wolf. That swayed some over to Dixie being more than an Echo, and in the meantime I started to update my moveset document to convince others of Dixie's moveset potential, as well as encouraging others to come up with ideas of their own. So while the arguments of Echoes came up regularly, there were healthy mental breaks between the often contentious topics as various artists and users began posting images, ideas and scenarios to keep the thread active.

During the leadup to Ultimate's release we got the final characters unveiled. Hoaxes disguised as Leaks were common throughout the hype cycle and so they diminished excitement for the final Base Game characters: Ken and Incineroar. Ken was an interesting case, as while he didn't play like Ryu, he was designated an Echo, with Sakurai saying that's how Ken started in the 1980's. This of course was a boost to the "Dixie should be an Echo" mindset, as Ken was only an Echo in name. They believed Dixie could be as unique as possible and still get the Echo designation, because Ken did. Ken, along with Chrom and Dark Samus became the go-to examples for why Dixie should be an Echo. Give Dixie different Idle Animations like Dark Samus, DK's Up B like Chrom taking Ike's, or have her get an entirely different feel from her base like Ken. However, that again was disproven. As Ultimate released we got to experience all the Echoes and test them against their Bases and see where the differences lie. Each Echo shared the same attack animations, grabs/throws and hitboxes; in a Fighting Game, the Echoes had superficial distinctions and played identically to their base fighter, the main difference being their attack power and damage values. The Semi-Clone or Unique Side argued that if Dixie was an Echo of Diddy, then she'd barely differ from him when it came to attacks, which mattered most in a Fighting Game. When Ken was brought up, he'd be countered with the fact that he's only 1 out of 7 Echoes who's Unique. Dixie's current odds would be 6:1 in ending up like Ken, and since those odds are horrendous they shouldn't be what the fandom expects out of an Echo of Diddy.

Dixie had a decent and consistent presence throughout the speculation scene. Her main hurdle for Ultimate was whether or not she should be Unique. The argument has gone on frequently, and after Ultimate's release it became clear that K. Rool was the only DK newcomer. Soon, DLC came into the equation like never before; Piranha Plant started the discussion but Joker set the scene. On paper, Joker is practically a Playstation character--arguably more on the Sony Side than Snake and Cloud. Reggie Fils-Aime's statement that Joker is an example of where the DLC will come from lit the entire community ablaze. Each reveal from there was 3rd Party, which hammered into everyone's brains that newcomers being 3rd Party from now on is the norm. We've entered a new era where Nintendo characters were less exciting, and prospects like Sony's Kratos or Microsoft's Master Chief became very serious considerations.

Few Nintendo characters kept enthusiasm following this. Waluigi had an ugly debacle, and most Nintendo frontrunners took a backseat to prominent 3rd Party characters. Speculation became a wider free-for-all for non Nintendo IPs; most fans figured that Ultimate already added all the heavy hitting Nintendo characters. There weren't many left, so 3rd Party was the way to go. During this period, people in the broader community began laughing that there are no more Nintendo All-Stars, so a well-respected user began to highlight Dixie's credentials as the Last Nintendo All-Star. Created in the 1990's, protagonist of 2 highly successful games from that era, one of which is believed to be among the greatest platformers ever (DKC2), broke the Damsel In Distress trend and headlined her own game years before Peach did (DKC3), was a prominent Heroine long before many other Heroines got their start, yet still managed to be feminine without any sexualized qualities, and a starring role in a game that's getting appreciated. Not to mention returned and became the preferred Kong of Tropical Freeze, another widely respected game in her franchise if not the best entry. This thread began to highlight her credentials and herald her as The Last Nintendo All-Star, as she has 3 very good games to her name. Some disagreed, believing that Toad shouldn't be overlooked, and while true, he'd been accounted for in Peach's and Daisy's movesets. This thread has maintained that Dixie is the Last, though it has faced criticisms from other sites for doing so.

DLC speculation has been weighed down by Rumors, Hoaxes and Leaks. The former 2 have made legit reveals less exciting, and many fandoms have gone in-depth examining every clue. Dixie's has been insulated from that and so we've avoided the pitfalls of being violently disappointed. Still, the fanbase remains relatively tame; it's not outspoken but the general view of Dixie by the entire community is positive. However among Dixie's fans, there's very strong doubt that she'll be in Ultimate. After K. Rool got in, many of his supporters were content or moved onto Banjo; one concrete reason why is that Banjo was also a long-time want that many dismissed as impossible until recently, so the nostalgia for 1990's Rare manifested in a push for Banjo, which we got. That however hasn't led to a desire for Dixie. It's possible that the venom regarding Dixie from old fandoms is at play, but it's more likely that the overlap of K. Rool fans are completely satisfied and moved on with their lives. What's not helping matters is the idea of her being an Echo. Sakurai said that these waves of DLC won't include Echo Fighters, and since many believe Dixie will be an Echo, they've preemptively barred her from being speculated on. That hurts her popularity MASSIVELY, as it allows detractors to eliminate her from consideration and put her in a lesser box while other characters get more focus. That's the Double-Edged Sword of wanting an Echo; you get people passively in favor of it but you get locked out of being seen as a "Real" character; as cool as non-Ken Echoes might be, they're never as exciting as the "Real" Characters. Except Ken, but he's in his own league.

Now with Ultimate near the end of its line, we have one character left and it could be anyone. Dixie's still an option, but her confirmation along with Kiddy as a Spirit has left some reasonable doubt. Her appearance in Mario Kart Tour has led to some positive boosts, but there's no certainty to her future. Her Speculation History has been either in Diddy's shadow or K. Rool's, and recently deemed not worth considering by some unless an Echo. This thread has gone a long way in winning people over and showcasing her value as a character; what that leads to is anyone's guess. Personally I believe she'll show up in another DK game in some capacity--preferably playable--and that she has more than enough material to be Unique, as any character can have a fresh moveset that references their games.

Hopefully this titanic essay illuminated some things about Dixie and gave some insights that we can all use. I've made my biases clear and tried to be as thorough as possible to the best of my knowledge.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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It goes without saying, but I think Dixie's (and by proxy the other missing kongs') best chance is if the next major :ultdk: game is produced by Koizumi. Prior to Returns it wouldn't mean much (due to Nintendo in general being at a loss at what to do with a property that both was and wasn't theirs), but most :ultmario: games he produced had new or returning major characters that showed up in them tending to become a lot more prominent in sports and other spin-off titles afterwards, and maybe even show up in Smash later on if the conditions are right. Most likely because said games are beloved.

Now, I can't pretend to remotely know what the next game's roster is going to look like, but one thing for sure (besides the higher density of newcomers depending on what, if any, veterans come back) is that there's barely any major Mario characters left to add if spin-offs continue to inexplicably be ignored: basically only Pauline and Captain Toad (maybe strictly just Pauline if Miyamoto continues to push his "all Toads rook same" agenda on every department related to Nintendo).

Now, when's the last time a Smash entry didn't add any characters from the Mario series that had its logo branding? Brawl. Also, who were they? A certain money-grubber and a spider monkey that we all know. :ultwario::ultdiddy:

What I'm getting at is that Sak and company will have no other choice but to pool out elsewhere for Marioverse characters as their options run out, and they wouldn't just pull in random Mario enemies and hope to have it work mechanically. This is where the possibility of a new Koizumi-produced 3D platformer DK game, as rumored, comes in.

Flash to 2017, Odyssey comes out and has a ton of name references within New Donk City, from the usual suspects to deep cuts like Expresso and Tiny. The next year, K. Rool was revealed for Ultimate to great acclaim. Coincidence? I think not. It seems to have showed that just relying on Retro Studios for DK games just wasn't going to fly anymore, and Retro being assigned to Metroid Prime 4 was the final nail on that coffin.

Jump to 2020, when a certain MK Tour event featured DK content, including Funky Kong and Dixie Kong, the latter having never been seen in a Mario Kart before.

Now, jump further to 2021, DK's 40th, and a long-standing rumor of said Koizumi DK game comes out of the woodwork, as well as the sighting of a Donkey Kong theme park being constructed. MK Tour also happens to have not one, but two DK-themed tours (one technically being Winter, but had one curious modification for a known DK-owned track).

If the new DK game is announced in the coming months and features returners like Dixie, it's going to look good in the long run for DK representation, since it would be released way before the next major Nintendo console, let along Smash 6, is even a gleam in the horizon, it would release in a time in which Nintendo finally has a clear vision for the series without hesitation or having to rely on outsiders like Paon and Retro Studios, and would finally put an end to the long-standing poor timing of DK content tied to recent releases.
 
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BirthNote

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Hey everyone, I have another moveset idea but I also have a couple ways to go about showing it. I can upload it today and it'll be 1 pic with a detailed description, or I can have 2 pics. For the 2nd pic I'll need another fighter as the guinea pig like with Lucario. This time however it can't be Lucario or sandbag.

So, I have 2 options:
A) Show it today with one pic only and a detailed description.

B) Show it later this week and include a victim. Y'all get to choose who the victim is.

It's certainly ready to go now so if option A is chosen it'll be up immediately. I'm leaning towards option A but I don't mind option B.

....
It goes without saying, but I think Dixie's (and by proxy the other missing kongs') best chance is if the next major :ultdk: game is produced by Koizumi. Prior to Returns it wouldn't mean much (due to Nintendo in general being at a loss at what to do with a property that both was and wasn't theirs), but most :ultmario: games he produced had new or returning major characters that showed up in them tending to become a lot more prominent in sports and other spin-off titles afterwards, and maybe even show up in Smash later on if the conditions are right. Most likely because said games are beloved.

Now, I can't pretend to remotely know what the next game's roster is going to look like, but one thing for sure (besides the higher density of newcomers depending on what, if any, veterans come back) is that there's barely any major Mario characters left to add if spin-offs continue to inexplicably be ignored: basically only Pauline and Captain Toad (maybe strictly just Pauline if Miyamoto continues to push his "all Toads rook same" agenda on every department related to Nintendo).

Now, when's the last time a Smash entry didn't add any characters from the Mario series that had its logo branding? Brawl. Also, who were they? A certain money-grubber and a spider monkey that we all know. :ultwario::ultdiddy:

What I'm getting at is that Sak and company will have no other choice but to pool out elsewhere for Marioverse characters as their options run out, and they wouldn't just pull in random Mario enemies and hope to have it work mechanically. This is where the possibility of a new Koizumi-produced 3D platformer DK game, as rumored, comes in.

Flash to 2017, Odyssey comes out and has a ton of name references within New Donk City, from the usual suspects to deep cuts like Expresso and Tiny. The next year, K. Rool was revealed for Ultimate to great acclaim. Coincidence? I think not. It seems to have showed that just relying on Retro Studios for DK games just wasn't going to fly anymore, and Retro being assigned to Metroid Prime 4 was the final nail on that coffin.

Jump to 2020, when a certain MK Tour event featured DK content, including Funky Kong and Dixie Kong, the latter having never been seen in a Mario Kart before.

Now, jump further to 2021, DK's 40th, and a long-standing rumor of said Koizumi DK game comes out of the woodwork, as well as the sighting of a Donkey Kong theme park being constructed. MK Tour also happens to have not one, but two DK-themed tours (one technically being Winter, but had one curious modification for a known DK-owned track).

If the new DK game is announced in the coming months and features returners like Dixie, it's going to look good in the long run for DK representation, since it would be released way before the next major Nintendo console, let along Smash 6, is even a gleam in the horizon, it would release in a time in which Nintendo finally has a clear vision for the series without hesitation or having to rely on outsiders like Paon and Retro Studios, and would finally put an end to the long-standing poor timing of DK content tied to recent releases.
It's such an interesting thing that Koizumi might be spearheading the next DK game. Back during Jungle Beat, he was quoted as saying the Rare era characters weren't fresh enough for the game's direction. I'm not knocking him but I'm glad Jungle Beat failed even though I really LOVED the Wii version. I might've reinforced his opinion on them and of course Returns and Tropical Freeze wouldn't exist.

I didn't know who he was until reading interviews for Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2, and honestly if it wasn't for him SMG would have no lore whatsoever. There was a tug of war between him and Miyamoto regarding how fleshed out the Mario setting/continuity should be. Miyamoto gets the final say and enforced a "strictly gameplay" mentality, but Koizumi would try and sprinkle lore tidbits without him noticing. That led to Galaxy's more grandiose presentation and Rosalina's storybook which I appreciated more than Galaxy 2's "Just start playing" approach. SMG2 is better from a gameplay perspective but it doesn't have the 1st game's magic or sci-fi wonder, which is why I like it more. Basically Koizumi seems to be why Galaxy felt so special to me.

If he's gonna be spearheading a new DK, it's an interesting full-circle scenario, since he appreciates the old Rare characters more now than he did then, plus he can provide some fun lore to the franchise hopefully. Apparently, he gave the Wii version of Jungle Beat more context by providing a basic plot that wasn't in the original. Obviously I'm not expecting RPG level lore but it's fun to have a subtle narrative in DK games, as Retro pulled that off spectacularly.
 

KirbyWorshipper2465

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Hey everyone, I have another moveset idea but I also have a couple ways to go about showing it. I can upload it today and it'll be 1 pic with a detailed description, or I can have 2 pics. For the 2nd pic I'll need another fighter as the guinea pig like with Lucario. This time however it can't be Lucario or sandbag.

So, I have 2 options:
A) Show it today with one pic only and a detailed description.

B) Show it later this week and include a victim. Y'all get to choose who the victim is.

It's certainly ready to go now so if option A is chosen it'll be up immediately. I'm leaning towards option A but I don't mind option B.

....

It's such an interesting thing that Koizumi might be spearheading the next DK game. Back during Jungle Beat, he was quoted as saying the Rare era characters weren't fresh enough for the game's direction. I'm not knocking him but I'm glad Jungle Beat failed even though I really LOVED the Wii version. I might've reinforced his opinion on them and of course Returns and Tropical Freeze wouldn't exist.

I didn't know who he was until reading interviews for Mario Galaxy and Galaxy 2, and honestly if it wasn't for him SMG would have no lore whatsoever. There was a tug of war between him and Miyamoto regarding how fleshed out the Mario setting/continuity should be. Miyamoto gets the final say and enforced a "strictly gameplay" mentality, but Koizumi would try and sprinkle lore tidbits without him noticing. That led to Galaxy's more grandiose presentation and Rosalina's storybook which I appreciated more than Galaxy 2's "Just start playing" approach. SMG2 is better from a gameplay perspective but it doesn't have the 1st game's magic or sci-fi wonder, which is why I like it more. Basically Koizumi seems to be why Galaxy felt so special to me.

If he's gonna be spearheading a new DK, it's an interesting full-circle scenario, since he appreciates the old Rare characters more now than he did then, plus he can provide some fun lore to the franchise hopefully. Apparently, he gave the Wii version of Jungle Beat more context by providing a basic plot that wasn't in the original. Obviously I'm not expecting RPG level lore but it's fun to have a subtle narrative in DK games, as Retro pulled that off spectacularly.
Yeah, personally I think Koizumi and Miyamoto's respective philosophies are currently at odds with each other. Even now, Odyssey and even a tiny side game for 3D World (which is fresh itself and paved the way for Captain Toad's adventures) have some background fluff while shaking up the old trends of the Mario series. Should be interesting to see what'll happen from here now that ports seem to be running dry.

Even if the "Country" brand name wouldn't be used very much anymore (since only Westerners developed those titles, after all) I'm definitely looking forward to what Koizumi would bring on the table for a mainline Donkey Kong platformer. While many of the existing characters would be used, some new minor NPC ones would definitely fit better now than back then since it would be a unified vision, and tried-and-true DK gameplay with a fresh twist would be welcome when the series hasn't got a 3D one in ages. I can hardly wait to see if the next Direct can shed light on everything.
That being said, I nominate :ultkingdedede: as the "wooden dummy".
 

SeashoreWar

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Messages
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Assuming you already started BirthNote BirthNote , but my pick would be Jigglypuff!

But finally the next two characters in Donkey Kong Racing!

Stanley and (DK's dad) DK Jr.!



I made Stanley more in line with Mario and Luigi since they're related and DK Jr more like the rest of the Kongs. Also if anybody knows the font used on Mario's hat, or something close to it, please let me know! I just had to use a random font for Stanley's S.

Six more characters to go!
 

InASnowBoundLand

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Messages
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Assuming you already started BirthNote BirthNote , but my pick would be Jigglypuff!

But finally the next two characters in Donkey Kong Racing!

Stanley and (DK's dad) DK Jr.!



I made Stanley more in line with Mario and Luigi since they're related and DK Jr more like the rest of the Kongs. Also if anybody knows the font used on Mario's hat, or something close to it, please let me know! I just had to use a random font for Stanley's S.

Six more characters to go!
Stanley looks much better! And "DK's dad" (sic) looks nice too! Let me post it within the next few days if that's alright with you.

 
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SeashoreWar

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Messages
293
Stanley looks much better! And "DK's dad" (sic) looks nice too! Let me post it within the next few days if that's alright with you.

Thanks! I tried out the 256 font before. The problem is the font on the hats isn't blocky like that. It's not a big deal though. I just really wanna know now lol.

And sure post it whenever you want!
 

BKupa666

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Great essay on @BirthNote’s part, talk about a trip down memory lane. Only parts I remember differently had to do with the bits on Tropical Freeze’s sales — I don’t recall seeing anyone on here questioning Dixie or a DK character in Smash 4 because the game underperformed on the Wii U, rather that, because DK on the whole had significantly more sales than other franchises that were getting newcomers at the time, it would’ve been a travesty for its candidates to be ignored. There probably were one or two diehards who attributed TF’s middling sales to its lack of K. Rool, but that would’ve been wholly ridiculous. Returns’ performance certainly didn’t hurt for his absence.


Separate matter! A few years ago, Source Gaming went back and re-translated that notorious interview where Koizumi supposedly discussed the relative “freshness” of DK, the banana and Rare’s DKC characters. Turns out, his original comments in Japanese were far more benign and matter-of-fact: that Jungle Beat’s characters simply were original to the game. If Koizumi ends up being the one helming DK Switch, I have no concerns about him rebooting the cast yet again.
 

BirthNote

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Assuming you already started BirthNote BirthNote , but my pick would be Jigglypuff!

But finally the next two characters in Donkey Kong Racing!

Stanley and (DK's dad) DK Jr.!



I made Stanley more in line with Mario and Luigi since they're related and DK Jr more like the rest of the Kongs. Also if anybody knows the font used on Mario's hat, or something close to it, please let me know! I just had to use a random font for Stanley's S.

Six more characters to go!
Excellent work Seashore! I like their look and the FACT that DK Jr is the current DK's Dad.
Great essay on @BirthNote’s part, talk about a trip down memory lane. Only parts I remember differently had to do with the bits on Tropical Freeze’s sales — I don’t recall seeing anyone on here questioning Dixie or a DK character in Smash 4 because the game underperformed on the Wii U, rather that, because DK on the whole had significantly more sales than other franchises that were getting newcomers at the time, it would’ve been a travesty for its candidates to be ignored. There probably were one or two diehards who attributed TF’s middling sales to its lack of K. Rool, but that would’ve been wholly ridiculous. Returns’ performance certainly didn’t hurt for his absence.


Separate matter! A few years ago, Source Gaming went back and re-translated that notorious interview where Koizumi supposedly discussed the relative “freshness” of DK, the banana and Rare’s DKC characters. Turns out, his original comments in Japanese were far more benign and matter-of-fact: that Jungle Beat’s characters simply were original to the game. If Koizumi ends up being the one helming DK Switch, I have no concerns about him rebooting the cast yet again.
That's...such a bittersweet vindication.

I remember being disappointed to see what I thought was "Some guy at Nintendo" disregarding Diddy and the rest of DKC like that. That coming around an era when people were labelling DK as an overrated series didn't help matters either. Personally I don't like DK64 anymore like I did 22 years ago, but I always thought the Country games were special. Imagine how different things would've been if we got an accurate translation back then; it took 16 years for us to get the intent: DKC elements and characters were left out due to respect and not because they weren't fresh enough.

Well, I'll admit Jungle Beat is what made me like DK as a character. For me, he wasn't a badass until that game; I ALWAYS chose Diddy over him when I had the chance but JB made me respect him. Thanks for posting that, also thanks for the feedback on the essay. Wanted to cover all the bases lol.
 

Phoenix Douchebag

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Separate matter! A few years ago, Source Gaming went back and re-translated that notorious interview where Koizumi supposedly discussed the relative “freshness” of DK, the banana and Rare’s DKC characters. Turns out, his original comments in Japanese were far more benign and matter-of-fact: that Jungle Beat’s characters simply were original to the game. If Koizumi ends up being the one helming DK Switch, I have no concerns about him rebooting the cast yet again.
Koizumi's game not featuring Rare's signature characters beyond the token DK redesign is a result of Japanese Gaming tendencies. Japanese developers in particular HATE working with stuff that they didn't create.

This is why Sakurai's content of Kirby games is the predominant aspect from it. Why Warioware or Land doesn't feature Waluigi (due to being a Camelot Creation) and why Kingdom Hearts features only FF7-onwards characters, since Nomura's hand at creating characters started flourishing from there (Setzer being an exception.

I can't say that i except all of the Rare era style of DK's world to return, but some elements like Dixie and Kremlings plus everything the Retro games introduced seem like a safe bet.
 

Ridley_Prime

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That'll be one thing that determines whether some will still support Nintendo going forward, how they respond to K Rool and Kremlings with a new DK game. You can only use the "they don't use those characters out of respect, as it wasn't their creation" excuse for so long. The ballot sent a clear wakeup call, that fans wanted K Rool back. Of course it helped that Smash and Sakurai work outside the mandates of corporate Nintendo's quality assurance, and so Rool was allowed to be brought back there with as much charm as ever, but we'll see how it goes far as him and future DK.

Even if we get another enemy tribe, I'll judge them on their own merits, while also condemning the crocodiles' continued shunning. They don't have to be mutually exclusive, and in fairness I liked the Kremlings and Snowmads of Tropical Freeze about the same in design and charm; that includes Lord Fredrik who was one of the most misunderstood bosses of any franchise. Retro wasn't allowed to bring back K Rool, so they did what they could in creating a well designed enemy as a homage to him.
 
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LiveStudioAudience

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Messages
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Nintendo's an odd beast to predict these days because a lot of their more unfortunate trends have broken a bit. Metroid is finally getting a new entry, Advance Wars has returned, and even Mario spin-off titles like Party, Tennis, & Golf aare making some progress in getting closer to their N64/Gamecube glory periods. Essentially, a lot of the worst tendencies of the late Wii/Wii-U era are slowly fading away, and it's entirely possible that the mindset about Rare content in DK might be one of them. I know the obvious response to that is wondering how some of those are related, but to me, it does suggest that there is an openness to franchise game development that wasn't quite there before.

WIth an upcoming title I could see an interesting inversion to the likes of DKCR where core gameplay goes in some very interesting new direction, but finally does invoke the characters and settings of old. Essentially be for modern DK what the first Prime was for Metroid.
 
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BirthNote

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the FACT that DK Jr is the current DK's Dad.
WAIT! I MADE A MISTAKE!!! I meant to say that DK Jr is the YOUNGER version of the current DK! HOW COULD I HAVE LET THIS SLIP PAST ME?!?!

My head canon is that Cranky is the current DK's Dad, and we don't see Jr because he grew up. I gotta fix the thread title, also the moveset idea is gonna be up in a few days.
 

Wyvy - Phoenix Mode

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Looked at that tweet.

I'm Lanky Kong. Considering I'm a Pungeon Master, it fits well.

Also, I wouldn't remove an entire franchise or Fox for Dixie Kong. I like him. I'd want her along with them. She deserves a seat at the table. I'm not willing to cut a seat to get her in either. That just hurts other fans.
 
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