I have only played one or two games with Lucas since 3.5, mostly because my muscle memory became a hindrance instead of an asset and I had, in anticipation of something similar happening, main-switched shortly before 3.5 anyway. It's clear that completely changing timings for very precise core techniques while hugely changing a character is a pretty good recipe to make people quit that character, so I hadn't planned on commenting here.
This weekend though I played with another Lucas main from my city and when showing him a bit of stuff I really noticed some of the changes for the first time. Obviously these impressions aren't from playing with Lucas, but I also don't think that's very relevant in this case, as I'll mainly be concerned with the motivations that made me play the character in the first place.
Before continuing, I want to finish the techskill-remark I started above. There's three changes that make playing with Lucas completely awkward for me: The additional hitlag on magnet, different timing for
autocancelling PKF and PKF not actually auto-cancelling anymore. The changed magnet timing was already discussed, so I'll only say that I didn't know how much of a difference 5 frames can make - I hit like one out of ten jump cancels when actively practicing the new timing, when before it was like nine out of ten during normal gameplay.
(remark: I thought it was 3 frames, but the hitlag for the repeating hit is also increased. Iirc you could cancel one frame later on hit than on whiff in 3.02, now it's six, which would make 5 frames of difference. I could be off by one frame then it's 4. The five frame difference also explains why I have such difficulties relearning the timing thinking the difference is three frames.)
The change to the PKF-timing is something I don't think anybody but me will have noticed. I spend hours training DJC AC PKFs to the point where I would get it more often than not. Due to changes to landing PKF now doesn't come out, when you do what I'm trained to do. The technique is precise enough to already have fluctuated between prior releases, so I'm not shocked it changed again. Still, I'd like it if some minimal change was made to restore the old timing, because it had multiple nuances that made it easy to perform (for a double 1-frame window that is, see the post I linked above). The changes would be so small, that they wouldn't necessarily be noticeable anyway.
On the other hand, and that's the real bummer, PKF lost its ac-window. (an undocumented change? I didn't find it in the changelog) I was used to occasionally whiffing PKFs and have different timings for when it absolutely has to come out, but those timings are a conscious effort and I'd usually just autocancel my PKF for safety (and have the PKF still come out most of the time.) Now I'm often awkwardly stuck on the ground because my follow-up actions were swallowed by the
9 additional frames of ending lag.
The magnet change definitely is the biggest bummer, but the combined PKF changes combine for an equally annoying hazard and together playing Lucas just became a chore for me.
Now while I hate having to relearn my most important techniques, I'd just get over it and do so, if Lucas was still as interesting to me (at least compared to the rest of the cast) as before - obviously he isn't. In 3.02 Lucas as we all know was an absolute beast and could do everything, so I agree he had to be toned down. But the direction he was taken in is not the one I'd wished (whether it was the right one I do not know, that depends on the reason other people played Lucas for).
Let's start by coming back to the PKF autocancel. If you asked me what I thought should be changed about Lucas before the patch, part of my answer would have been "normalize PKF ac and no-ac." Lucas PM-historically was the character with the most technical depth or at the very least right up there and had absurdly difficult techniques like perfect multimagnets, but those techniques always had less efficient, but easier alternatives that could be substituted to good effect. Autocancelling PKF was the same, but compared to magnet-shield pressure or SH-/DJC-PKFs the difference was more digital than analogue. Autocancelling PKF was so much better that you'd hardly imagine going back, but also much, much harder. The PMDT and I probably agreed in this being a problem.
Removing the autocancel, though, imo was the wrong way to go about it. Autocancelling PKF was niche, but useful as a movement option even without the projectile coming out, which fits right into how I want Lucas to be. Also, did I mention how good DJC AC PKFs felt due to the low lag? Here's what I think should have been done for normalization:
- Reduce PKF landing lag to 8 frames (from 13)
- Slightly increase travelling speed of aerial PK
- Slightly reduce travelling speed of grounded PKF (each by about 1/4 of the current difference)
- Reduce endlag of grounded PKF
- Nerf projectile hits accordingly
Notes so these are understood correctly: PKF stays for a set amount of time, the speed of the projectile dictates the distance it goes. Auto-cancelled aerial PKFs fly the grounded distance and have 4 frames of endlag.
Now to Magnet. Before explaining what I like/don't like about it, I'll lay out what I see as the effect of the changes. Combos will usually not be affected. While it can be SDI'd more easily now due to the longer hitlag, it could be SDI'd into the ground before anyway and a well-spaced magnet still shouldn't be escaped otherwise. Each SDI input also does less now than before, which somewhat offsets the longer hitlag. The timing changed, but the result in combos didn't.
Shield pressure got butchered. Of course, footstools against a shield were taken out. My opinion of this: Good, no character should have an option as safe and rewarding against shield as Lucas did in 3.02. Now, Lucas next best option was multi-magnet pressure. It's still there but not that much better (if at all) than DJC FAirs + magnets to be worth learning. Opponents can now act between aerial magnet->magnet, grounded magnet->magnet can be grabbed if of by one frame and all magnets are easier to SDI out of due to ASDI in shield.
The one thing I noticed that could be called a buff is how opponents can now act on the frame of the release hit if released as soon as possible. This means that rolls/spotdodges have to be buffered more precisely or the opponent will get hit. On the flip side: You now can't hold Magnet for a tiny bit (1-3 frames) longer to change the timing without opening up escape windows. Also: Holding Magnet 3 frames longer than necessary already had this effect in 3.02, it was just hard to do. (which considering it's Lucas we're talking about could actually be considered a good thing.)
Lucas still has good pressure on shield, but he went from having the best hands down (magnet+footstool) over being comparable to Spacies and probably better (magnet) to maybe top 10, maybe not. I'm pretty sure Spacies and Lucario, whose shield pressure always was easier, now also have better shield pressure than him.
Last but not least, poking with magnet now requires more commitment. You have to call whether you're going to hit something before cancelling the magnet or risk being stuck in it for much (5 frames) longer than necessary. This isn't too important against characters whose bnb moves outrange magnet, because you'll seldom try to catch options with it where five frames would matter. Against lower-ranged characters though I'd often throw out a magnet in case they e.g. dash dance to a certain place and either hitconfirm off of it or retreat via wavedash and be mostly safe. Now if they take a step less, the formerly safe retreat could get punished.
My opinion on these changes: Magnet is less interesting now. I believe it's a good change that poking with magnet is a bit more committing, but I also feel like the difference between hitting and not hitting is too great - three frames would be enough. Lucas shield pressure also feels toned down a bit too much. I really liked how Magnet had parallels to shine in creating really good shield pressure, but differentiated itself by being slower to come out but with better advantage in case it hits. It was a bit unfair before, but now it's not good enough to warrant learning the really difficult techniques.
Another aspect here that dissuades me from picking Lucas up again is how now the obvious usage of Magnet feels like it's also the best. Before due to the multiple quirks in its implementation (lower hitlag than shielding opponent, gets slower when transitioning from air to ground, really good but too fast to make out the nuances) you could use it effectively just by playing with it, but looking at frame data and theorizing also helped find stuff, that probably no one would have noticed without. I love analyzing stuff and now it just doesn't feel as rewarding to do so. Especially with all of my findings getting taken out.
I'm half kidding with that last sentence. I'd have no problem losing old stuff, if it felt like new options were to be explored.
Further still: Besides the theoretical exploration aspect, I liked playing Lucas for his insane mobility and plethora of options in neutral/advantaged situations. What I didn't like about him were his super long combos. I'll take them, but I also wouldn't care losing them. Now the aspect of Magnet, Lucas' most interesting and pivotal move, that got nerfed the least is the combo aspect. I'd much prefer it if Magnet was tweaked to be better at poking and pressuring again, but harder to follow up on. E.g. can be released 1 frame sooner, release hit does 1 more damage. That would make Magnet one frame faster in neutral, +1 on shield and keep the opponent shield-stunned until the release hit. Then, if necessary, make it lead into positional advantage instead of combos (which probably also would make ccing worse against it), and I'd be set.
To continue that line of thought, let's look at what defined Lucas as a character in 3.02 (or rather what I think did.) Lucas could do just about anything, so it's a bit hard to categorize him, but I see a few main distinguishable attributes that made people main him.
- Insane mobility due to a huge quantity of quick movement options
- Probably the highest tech-skill ceiling in the game and in extension enormous technical depth
- Great pressure options
- Extreme combo potential
- Good pokes (mostly Magnet), safe neutral
- Top tier
Of those, him being top tier is not something innate to his character, but rather contingent and people who played him for that reason alone will just switch to whoever is top tier now. But for the other four points, it seems like all of them combined may be too much for one character in this new age of PM. Meaning a direction would have to be chosen. I believe his mobility and technical depth are the pillars of his design, while the combos, pressure and safe neutral are more dependent on them. The first two also may be summed up as him feeling like an offensive character. Which of the latter three aspects you want to focus on depends on what the majority of Lucas players prefers (I'd wager pressure), but the first two are quintessential.
The above is why I think the Magnet and PKF changes are such a big deal. They removed a lot of effective technical depth by making some of the most difficult techs not really worth using over the simpler stuff. The missing AC on PKF also limited movement options unnecessarily.
Now even though my post has all those negative responses, almost all the other changes I like or at least don't mind. Not having tested it I'm a bit sceptical about the ZAir change and whether it'll still be viable as an on-stage attack with the increased hitlag (I really think it should be) and DAir feels a bit lazily changed, again rewarding the obvious usage. Something like a landing-hitbox to prevent the semi-infinite (which also is much less of a deal with normalized SDI) would have been much more interesting. Also DThrow still feels unfair. Those complaints are minor, though.
The new DTilt looks really interesting. The change to OU is great (but I still don't like the move and think it should be either replaced or worked on
.) Shorter Magnet pulls sounded bad, but the new distance is fair. Lucas neutral now requires commitment, which should make him more fun to play as. Having to be more precise with moves also sounds interesting (and opens up even more opportunities to intentionally hit with flubs.) UpAir can kill again and not just combo (I preferred the old version with the sweetspot over the one he had in 3.02.) The stuff that annoyed people but wasn't actually important got removed, so I'll now here less complaints (should I play him), which is good.
Really, if it wasn't for Magnet and PKF, I'd be playing Lucas again and would be a huge proponent of the changes. Also would be having more fun than before
.
tl,dr: Magnet and PKF changes are a huge deal because they cost Lucas technical depth and a movement option (DJC PKF AC), other changes are good
![[TIM]](/data/avatars/l/273/273320.jpg?1416177011){kind=avatar}
