Discussion About Religion

[J.I.L]

open ended discussion on religion. Some question may include: what do you think about religion? What religion are you? Where do you stand on it? How should religion impact the world, etc.

 

[Sucumbio]

I think it's an archaic design of our biology to allow social behavior to manifest with explosive resolve. As a species we should be focusing on thinking about the consequences of our actions and about what led us here. Then, once we have a humble but unanimous agreement, if only for one truth shared by all, we can positively move forward.

In response to the poll...

My personal beliefs are not unique and yet combine several opinions from various sources because eloquence is... Important.

I think that ultimately people will be people and no amount of hope or charity will ever make everyone peaceful of heart and sound of mind and body. Those who do have a path towards those goals have hope. So they don't need it. Those who do not, either risk for the reward or reject the notion and move on to wherever fate takes them. But it does go somewhere. Always will! So just get there already.

I mean should we call Elon a messiah? Gonna bring a...

NewWWW.alwaysoninyourHEAD.hahaha

...to the world? Sure ok.... It's irrelevant to me honestly. If you must believe in a savior and you can think of no one else but yourself then you've not even seen desperation.

And who do most people pray to when it does happen? What are the words people say when something happens...

Oh

God.

So I guess no matter where you are you're gonna be ingrained to make an ovation to the overseer. I think at this point those who find time to sit alone and curse whatever maker may be can be counted the same as the most pious.

Once you die its fairly irrelevant to you that just died but your legacy may or may not be. So most people use that combined with faith or hope to live. It's whatever really... Once you're done and decomposing that's when the real show begins. One day I certainly pray we get to see that journey through the lense of science.

 

[J.I.L]

I think it's an archaic design of our biology to allow social behavior to manifest with explosive resolve. As a species we should be focusing on thinking about the consequences of our actions and about what led us here. Then, once we have a humble but unanimous agreement, if only for one truth shared by all, we can positively move forward.

In response to the poll...

My personal beliefs are not unique and yet combine several opinions from various sources because eloquence is... Important.

I think that ultimately people will be people and no amount of hope or charity will ever make everyone peaceful of heart and sound of mind and body. Those who do have a path towards those goals have hope. So they don't need it. Those who do not, either risk for the reward or reject the notion and move on to wherever fate takes them. But it does go somewhere. Always will! So just get there already.

I mean should we call Elon a messiah? Gonna bring a...

NewWWW.alwaysoninyourHEAD.hahaha

...to the world? Sure ok.... It's irrelevant to me honestly. If you must believe in a savior and you can think of no one else but yourself then you've not even seen desperation.

And who do most people pray to when it does happen? What are the words people say when something happens...

Oh

God.

So I guess no matter where you are you're gonna be ingrained to make an ovation to the overseer. I think at this point those who find time to sit alone and curse whatever maker may be can be counted the same as the most pious.

Once you die its fairly irrelevant to you that just died but your legacy may or may not be. So most people use that combined with faith or hope to live. It's whatever really... Once you're done and decomposing that's when the real show begins. One day I certainly pray we get to see that journey through the lense of science.

Never really answered the question. I guess you are in “idk land”. Basically what you’re saying is humans will be humans regardless of faith - therefore afterlife isn’t important but instead building your legacy on earth is. Then you hope one day science will be able to answer the question definitively.

A. Humans are differnt. But our imperfections is accounted for an explained in religion, mine at least.
B. Afterlife is important because there’s a chance it may be right, and you might spend entenrity in some type of hades. Rotting away forevermore.
C. Science will never be able to answer that question because religion is outside science. Science is study of natural world. How will science go beyond the natural universe in extra terrestrial plains? So it will never answer.

 

[Whia]

Atheist here, who occasionally flirts with anti-theism. The positives associated with it (the various hopes and comforts and sense of family & community) are vastly outweighed by the negatives (the science denialism, bigotry, and general fanaticism) as far as I'm concerned. The positives can be found in droves in non-religious circles, and while the negatives can as well, you literally can't have religious extremism without religion first.

 

[Sucumbio]

Never really answered the question. I guess you are in “idk land”. Basically what you’re saying is humans will be humans regardless of faith - therefore afterlife isn’t important but instead building your legacy on earth is. Then you hope one day science will be able to answer the question definitively.

A. Humans are differnt. But our imperfections is accounted for an explained in religion, mine at least.
B. Afterlife is important because there’s a chance it may be right, and you might spend entenrity in some type of hades. Rotting away forevermore.
C. Science will never be able to answer that question because religion is outside science. Science is study of natural world. How will science go beyond the natural universe in extra terrestrial plains? So it will never answer.

A, humans experience the universe in a mostly limited fashion except when scientists observe.
B. The just in case argument is debatable
C. Science has already explained countless things that organized religions either got right or got wrong. There's no logical reason to assume that the scientific method would suddenly stop working just because the question becomes more complex. Knowing what happens to us after death is indeed important and science should one day explain what that is. It may not be the answer many would accept or expect but when is science just for popularity? Hopefully never!

 

[J.I.L]

Starting to regret making this thread. Blood is starting to slowly boil looking at these comments.

Whia that is a very basic level cognitive analysis on religion and non religion. I am tempted to go on a ruthless recount of the ills of “non religion” history. But I will relent. Just know, you ought to expand your understanding on this issue and be mindful of how your words come across.
P.S - my ruthless recounts/rant threads against something are some of the most deflating/depressing/anger enticing things my oppenets can read. Just look at this whole “serious discussion” sub forum. Why do you think for all the recent activity has the last commenter being me? Because when people challenge things I fundamentally see to be right, their objections and arguments get shot down with forthright wisdom and analysis. Hence on political thread, you don’t see contrary political ideology commenting there anymore. My political analysis have been so ruthless in telling THE FACTS, I believe it has discouraged those with under developed aggressive disagreement from even commenting.
And I have much subject amo against “non religion” to make that a reality here, too.
I say all of this so you be mindful of what you say. The things you say can hurt people and offend. Like being “anti theist” and saying how theism leads to problem. That offends. And you should be careful of who you offend.

Sucumbio

A. What does that have to do with humans being fundamentally differnt and that “humans will be humans” - basically the imperfections of man is not something contrary to at least my religion. Science observed and tries to explain the creation of God. Good.
B. Might not be very enticing, but it’s still true. Now it holds no weight for me because I know to basic extent how this world works and what lies in the hereafter... but it’s still true.
C. It’s not about being more “complex”. Science cannot and will never transcend into extra terrestrial realms on human intelligence. So it’s an pointless endeavor to hope scientist figure out the answer of “afterlife” and heaven and hell... and God.
I am actually not an advocate for religions, only my own. And science l, Worldly men of science that is, seem to always be behind my religion.

 

[Whia]

Oh man.

Whia that is a very basic level cognitive analysis on religion and non religion. I am tempted to go on a ruthless recount of the ills of “non religion” history.

They were accounted for. Maybe re-read the post.

Just know, you ought to expand your understanding on this issue

I was gonna say you ought to try being less overwhelmingly arrogant and presumptuous, but as the remainder of your post illustrates, that has no chance of happening.

And I have much subject amo against “non religion” to make that a reality here, too.

I guarantee you don't.

And you should be careful of who you offend.

I mean...the only thing I can think to say in response to this is "lol".

 

[J.I.L]

Oh man.


They were accounted for. Maybe re-read the post.


I was gonna say you ought to try being less overwhelmingly arrogant and presumptuous, but as the remainder of your post illustrates, that has no chance of happening.


I guarantee you don't.


I mean...the only thing I can think to say in response to this is "lol".

Alright dude, agree to dissagree. I don’t feel it’s the time to ruthlessly rip into an adversary belief like I have done on political discussions. Agree to dissagree.

 

[Sucumbio]

Starting to regret making this thread. Blood is starting to slowly boil looking at these comments.

You can edit the OP to have more firm direction in terms of structure and I'd actually remove the poll but thats up to you.

Sucumbio

A. What does that have to do with humans being fundamentally differnt and that “humans will be humans” - basically the imperfections of man is not something contrary to at least my religion. Science observed and tries to explain the creation of God. Good.
B. Might not be very enticing, but it’s still true. Now it holds no weight for me because I know to basic extent how this world works and what lies in the hereafter... but it’s still true.
C. It’s not about being more “complex”. Science cannot and will never transcend into extra terrestrial realms on human intelligence. So it’s an pointless endeavor to hope scientist figure out the answer of “afterlife” and heaven and hell... and God.
I am actually not an advocate for religions, only my own. And science l, Worldly men of science that is, seem to always be behind my religion.

Let's start over.

Science is not a good or bad thing. It's just a way of observing the universe. Through the scientific method we learn more about how everything works. This same method can and is used by religions to explore miracles and understand the teachings of prophets. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that one day these same religious and scientific scholars end up converging knowledge wise until there are no true mysteries to explore. It could be eons obviously. Or it may never happen because we die out before that discovery. But I personally do not think that's an excuse to just not bother trying.

How matter, energy and time and our universe exist and coalesce and interact is humanity's greatest exploration and with it will come answers to questions like what happens when we die or are born....what a soul is or isn't, or karma for example. There's much mystery left to observe and catalog and explain but it's all in asking the right questions that'll bring the answer.

 

[Whia]

Alright dude, agree to dissagree. I don’t feel it’s the time to ruthlessly rip into an adversary belief like I have done on political discussions. Agree to dissagree.

lol why would it have to be ruthlessly? Can't you, with your unassailable wisdom, caps-locked FACTS and loads of ammo, gently rip into adversarial beliefs?

 

[J.I.L]

You can edit the OP to have more firm direction in terms of structure and I'd actually remove the poll but thats up to you.




Let's start over.

Science is not a good or bad thing. It's just a way of observing the universe. Through the scientific method we learn more about how everything works. This same method can and is used by religions to explore miracles and understand the teachings of prophets. Therefore it is reasonable to assume that one day these same religious and scientific scholars end up converging knowledge wise until there are no true mysteries to explore. It could be eons obviously. Or it may never happen because we die out before that discovery. But I personally do not think that's an excuse to just not bother trying.

How matter, energy and time and our universe exist and coalesce and interact is humanity's greatest exploration and with it will come answers to questions like what happens when we die or are born....what a soul is or isn't, or karma for example. There's much mystery left to observe and catalog and explain but it's all in asking the right questions that'll bring the answer.

Probablem is, how do observe things outside your reality? It's immposible.

Whia Patience young Whia. If you seek my wisdom and understadning. Ask question, and hopefully they will be answered.

 

[Whia]

Probablem is, how do observe things outside your reality? It's immposible.

Whia Patience young Whia. If you seek my wisdom and understadning. Ask question, and hopefully they will be answered.

Question 1: How do you distinguish between something "outside your reality" and something that just simply doesn't exist? How can you become convinced of such a thing or hope to convince anyone else of it when by your own admission it can't be observed?

 

[Sucumbio]

Probablem is, how do observe things outside your reality? It's immposible.

Let's clarify what you mean... You're saying that religion, at least your own belief system, requires you to believe in the existence of someone or something that by definition can never be proved or disproved by proper observation.

Even if science does one day demonstrate clearly that for instance when we die our biology may transcend normal space or time or matter or energy (we don't know yet but we're closer than ever to finding out) and that would NOT be evidence of the supernatural explained?

That's what I'm getting at. Religion fills in knowledge gaps with promises and guidelines but when churches have to backtrack because new information becomes available it is painfully obvious that they're no experts themselves.

 

[J.I.L]

Question 1: How do you distinguish between something "outside your reality" and something that just simply doesn't exist? How can you become convinced of such a thing or hope to convince anyone else of it when by your own admission it can't be observed?

A lot of things...hm. Faith, seeing miracles of God (though this I believe dosen't happen anymore nor won't till "IT" takes place) or some type of sorcery/magic/witch craft etc. You're an atheist right? shouldn't you be familiar with the dark arts? atheist and those of demoic spell casting, pearls - voodo dolls, witches and all that sort of stuff of stantism...they tend to overlap.

Because Christianity does not work through the power of man, but the work of God. It takes faith for one to believe, and God gives us this faith. By our own frution, none would see the Light of Christ. So you're right - something one cannot observe - why believe it? because God is above the short sightedness of man, and can give us faith to believe in things not see. It's what the Bible says. Only way you are saved is THROUGH...what's the word? faith. And the Bibles describes faith as beleiving in things not seen.

Sucumbio

Yes... kinda. It basically says you can only be saved through faith that God rose Jesus from the dead and that He is the Messiah.

The only time "science" will see anything is when the "rapture" happens. Then you'll see some super natrual stuff. But before that until now, science will never be able to answer the question of the afterlife. We can't even see what is our "soul" is. Hence why many don't believe it is even a thing.

Religons may back track because it's inhabitated by fallen creatures (also...science back tracks too you know?), the Bible never back tracks on anything. It's God Word. It has no error and will not pass away.

 

[Whia]

A lot of things...hm. Faith,

So why have faith in things that can’t be observed or empirically verified? How can you determine if the object of your faith is legitimate?

or some type of sorcery/magic/witch craft etc. You're an atheist right? shouldn't you be familiar with the dark arts? atheist and those of demoic spell casting, pearls - voodo dolls, witches

Uh, no. Atheism doesn’t necessarily entail any of that.

and all that sort of stuff of stantism...they tend to overlap.

You should take a second to think about this. Why would an atheist, who doesn’t believe in god, believe in satan, whose existence is predicated on god?

Because Christianity does not work through the power of man, but the work of God. It takes faith for one to believe, and God gives us this faith.

How can you verify god is the source of your faith? You have to demonstrate your god exists first - which you already admitted can’t be done, hence why you invoked faith in the first place.

 

[Sucumbio]

A lot of things...hm. Faith, seeing miracles of God (though this I believe dosen't happen anymore nor won't till "IT" takes place) or some type of sorcery/magic/witch craft etc. You're an atheist right? shouldn't you be familiar with the dark arts? atheist and those of demoic spell casting, pearls - voodo dolls, witches and all that sort of stuff of stantism...they tend to overlap.

Because Christianity does not work through the power of man, but the work of God. It takes faith for one to believe, and God gives us this faith. By our own frution, none would see the Light of Christ. So you're right - something one cannot observe - why believe it? because God is above the short sightedness of man, and can give us faith to believe in things not see. It's what the Bible says. Only way you are saved is THROUGH...what's the word? faith. And the Bibles describes faith as beleiving in things not seen.

Sucumbio

Yes... kinda. It basically says you can only be saved through faith that God rose Jesus from the dead and that He is the Messiah.

The only time "science" will see anything is when the "rapture" happens. Then you'll see some super natrual stuff. But before that until now, science will never be able to answer the question of the afterlife. We can't even see what is our "soul" is. Hence why many don't believe it is even a thing.

Religons may back track because it's inhabitated by fallen creatures (also...science back tracks too you know?), the Bible never back tracks on anything. It's God Word. It has no error and will not pass away.

Great point! Science indeed changes with knowledge (a sin if you're traditional, I'm technically baptized but I think of blessings as literal transferances of.... (science word)..

And I won't accept Christ as my savior because it doesn't matter?

Or does it. Mm.
.... See when death is 3 doors down that's all you think about if you can still think. Unless you're at peace. I think it's quite possible that our fear of dying is something that's natural but because we are sentient and conscious many dwell on it.

All faiths of the world root themselves in historical events that took on deeper meaning. From early shamen to Pope holy people, truly blessed, seem to simply be connected to the world in a way others are not. What those people choose to do or allow actions thereof in their namesake must indeed be scrutinized, lest entire swaths of humans be erased. I need not illustrate the death toll of Christ. It's insane, really. Have I done those things? Am I of sound mind and body and live with respect? I won't ever say Christ was wrong because his few words that have managed to survive speak only of love. Who gets to say grace at our table? The Simpsons.




Moving to your first bit...

Will you really be able to notice when Elon Musks global satellite technology leads to a new evolution of human, the wet wired? Unless you REALLY believe 199k or whatever humans are gonna vanish into thin air and blah blah God the Rapture is so hectic!

I like the 7th sign good movie.

Neway enough bedtime stories! Arguing the Fidiest is a sure downfall.

 

[J.I.L]

Great point! Science indeed changes with knowledge (a sin if you're traditional, I'm technically baptized but I think of blessings as literal transferances of.... (science word)..

And I won't accept Christ as my savior because it doesn't matter?

Or does it. Mm.
.... See when death is 3 doors down that's all you think about if you can still think. Unless you're at peace. I think it's quite possible that our fear of dying is something that's natural but because we are sentient and conscious many dwell on it.

All faiths of the world root themselves in historical events that took on deeper meaning. From early shamen to Pope holy people, truly blessed, seem to simply be connected to the world in a way others are not. What those people choose to do or allow actions thereof in their namesake must indeed be scrutinized, lest entire swaths of humans be erased. I need not illustrate the death toll of Christ. It's insane, really. Have I done those things? Am I of sound mind and body and live with respect? I won't ever say Christ was wrong because his few words that have managed to survive speak only of love. Who gets to say grace at our table? The Simpsons.




Moving to your first bit...

Will you really be able to notice when Elon Musks global satellite technology leads to a new evolution of human, the wet wired? Unless you REALLY believe 199k or whatever humans are gonna vanish into thin air and blah blah God the Rapture is so hectic!

I like the 7th sign good movie.

Neway enough bedtime stories! Arguing the Fidiest is a sure downfall.

I don't understand, on other threads I've seen you say how faith was monumental in turning your life around for the better. I assume that faith was Christian, so why do you now give God the cold shoulder of doubt?

Whia if you could empiracly verify it through our eyes or observe it....it wouldn't be faith - now would it? And the Bible says one can only find God through FAITH in Christ. How you find "legitmacy" (aka enocuragement that what I believe is true) for yourself that it is real is a personal question for the Believer. I'll just say look at how Christanity has spread, look at the people it produces - societies it makes. The amount of followers it has. Just like many other religons, Christianity is an legitmate faith system to be recongized.

Verify God is the source of your faith? It's simple, read scripture and do some deductive reason based on it. If man is blemished before God, and on our own - never end able to see His Glory. How could it be that without God's mercy - we can come to know Him? Okay, so if only come to know Him by His grace - who would be the one Empowering our Faith? our Will? - we just estbalished how by our Will we cannot know God...so if we can't know God through our Will...our Will won't maintain our relationship with God. So obvious conclusion is that God empowers our faith. Aka...is the source of what drives our Faith.

Even if you saw the devine glory and work of God....doesen't not mean you'll be saved. In the Bible it talks of the parabale Lazaurs. A rich dude didn't share food with poor lazaurs, then they both died. Lazerus was saved, rich man was not. Rich man asked God if he could come as a ghost and warn His brothers of what lies ahead. And the Bible said "EVEN IF you warned them - they still would not believe since they have rejected the [Bible]". The point is, seeing devine things being done - does not mean you will even surrender your life to Christ. And a lot of you atheist know that....so stop asking as if seeing "miracles" will convice you otherwise.

 

[Whia]

Whia if you could empiracly verify it through our eyes or observe it....it wouldn't be faith - now would it?

Indeed it wouldn't; it would be independently verifiable, empirical evidence - which is superior to faith if you want to show you actually know what you're talking about. Which you, evidently, can't do.

How you find "legitmacy" (aka enocuragement that what I believe is true) for yourself that it is real is a personal question for the Believer. I'll just say look at how Christanity has spread, look at the people it produces - societies it makes.

There's no point in unpacking this - the people a religion produces are irrelevant to the veracity of its claims.

However, that said, religiosity, at least in the United States, positively correlates with the least educated states in the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_religiosity#Results / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment). And of course the deep south leads the nation in biblically motivated science-denialism and the consequent indoctrination of children therein (http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...ed_where_tax_money_supports_alternatives.html).

So there's that.

The amount of followers it has. Just like many other religons, Christianity is an legitmate faith system to be recongized.

This is both a logical fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) and self-defeating. If Christianity's claim to legitimacy are its high number of followers, then Islam- the truth of which is mutually exclusive with Christianity - must therefore be legitimate as well. This is really basic stuff.

Verify God is the source of your faith? It's simple, read scripture and do some deductive reason based on it.

This is circular reasoning. If you want to use scripture to buttress god claims, you have to verify the validity of scripture first - which of course you can't do which is why you invoked faith in the first place.

If man is blemished before God, and on our own - never end able to see His Glory. How could it be that without God's mercy - we can come to know Him? Okay, so if only come to know Him by His grace - who would be the one Empowering our Faith? our Will? - we just estbalished how by our Will we cannot know God...so if we can't know God through our Will...our Will won't maintain our relationship with God. So obvious conclusion is that God empowers our faith. Aka...is the source of what drives our Faith.

This is totally incomprehensible.

Even if you saw the devine glory and work of God....doesen't not mean you'll be saved. In the Bible it talks of the parabale Lazaurs. A rich dude didn't share food with poor lazaurs, then they both died. Lazerus was saved, rich man was not. Rich man asked God if he could come as a ghost and warn His brothers of what lies ahead. And the Bible said "EVEN IF you warned them - they still would not believe since they have rejected the [Bible]". The point is, seeing devine things being done - does not mean you will even surrender your life to Christ. And a lot of you atheist know that....so stop asking as if seeing "miracles" will convice you otherwise.

Ah of course, the classic "You wouldn't accept evidence anyways!!!" canard. Is this the wisdom you said you would bestow on me?

 

[J.I.L]

Indeed it wouldn't; it would be independently verifiable, empirical evidence - which is superior to faith if you want to show you actually know what you're talking about. Which you, evidently, can't do.



There's no point in unpacking this - the people a religion produces are irrelevant to the veracity of its claims.

However, that said, religiosity, at least in the United States, positively correlates with the least educated in the country (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_religiosity#Results / https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_educational_attainment). And of course the deep south leads the nation in biblically motivated science-denialism and the consequent indoctrination of children therein (http://www.slate.com/articles/healt...ed_where_tax_money_supports_alternatives.html).

So there's that.


This is both a logical fallacy (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argumentum_ad_populum) and self-defeating. If Christianity's claim to legitimacy are its high number of followers, then Islam- the truth of which is mutually exclusive with Christianity - must therefore be legitimate as well. This is really basic stuff.



This is circular reasoning. If you want to use scripture to buttress god claims, you have to verify the validity of scripture first - which of course you can't do which is why you invoked faith in the first place.


This is totally incomprehensible.


Ah of course, the classic "You wouldn't accept evidence anyways!!!" canard. Is this the wisdom you said you would bestow on me?

And faith in Christ is superior to a lack of belief in Him.
It actually can be independently verifiable. God is perfect and has no contradictions. So in the goodness of His work and with the purity of our eyes - May you find Him. But humans are tainted by sin. Our eyes aren’t pure. So our “indepdent research” (our own will) - we cant find Him. The fact science can’t find God only proves the Bible to be true because the Bible says no one can reach the Father except through Me - Jesus. Anymore “bright” ideas, kid?

Okay. That also applies to atheism/agnosticism as well. Dosent matter how many followers a belief system has - but wether that belief is CORRECT. I agree with this line of thinking.

Lol - the elitism of online atheist is so amusing. Love how you are looking down on people and equating that with religious belief. And I really could go down that road of “beleif superiority” and compare Christians to atheist and how they affected the world. I really could... but it would just lead to extreme bitterness on both sides (very more so on yours though). Please, let this diversion of “which people who believe ‘this’ are superior?” Die, here.

Who said Islam was not an legitimate religion?

Well you asked a Biblical question so I gave you an Biblical answer. If you meant it in a scientific bend of how to prove God empowers people faith. Lol, it’s about absurd as asking men of science to prove, and locate heaven. Science can’t answer spiritual things. For spiritual things are not of this world ( world - this demension - the universe). If you believe that if science can’t answer it - that means it’s not there or worth looking at, you are dangerously deluded.

 

[Whia]

And faith in Christ is superior to a lack of belief in Him.

A claim which itself is based on that very faith, which still requires substantiation, which you've already admitted you can't provide.

It actually can be independently verifiable.

No it can't, and you've already admitted this.

God is perfect and has no contradictions.

This is a claim which also requires substantiation.

Also it's false. For example, the bible describes god as being perfectly just, yet elsewhere is described as merciful. This is a contradiction, as mercy is defined as the suspension of justice.

So in the goodness of His work and with the purity of our eyes - May you find Him. But humans are tainted by sin. Our eyes aren’t pure. So our “indepdent research” (our own will) - we cant find Him. The fact science can’t find God only proves the Bible to be true because the Bible says no one can reach the Father except through Me - Jesus. Anymore “bright” ideas, kid?

Remember like 3 sentences ago when you said this:

It actually can be independently verifiable.

So first it was "observing things outside reality is impossible" then it became "actually it's independently verifiable" and now it's back to "science can't prove god". Are you even reading your own posts?

And seriously, not being able to prove god proves the bible? Sure. Now take my hand as I guide your toward the logical conclusion of your asinine reasoning. Not being able to prove god proves the bible, therefore the bible is true, which means therefore you've proven the existence of god, which then negates your initial premise, which means the bible has therefore been disproven, which is then proof of itself being true, and etc etc around and around we go.

Like, come on. Even other apologists would laugh you out of the room for this. Don't embarrass yourself.

Okay. That also applies to atheism/agnosticism as well. Dosent matter how many followers a belief system has - but wether that belief is CORRECT. I agree with this line of thinking.

Then why did you bring it up in the first place? Why are you using arguments you admit you know are fallacious?

Lol - the elitism of online atheist is so amusing. Love how you are looking down on people and equating that with religious belief.

So, in other words, you have literally zero self-awareness.

When you make the (fallacious and arguably incorrect) argument that Christianity is legitimate because of the kinds of people and societies it produces, the implication is, obviously, that Christianity produces better people, which qualifies as looking down on non-Christians. Spare me your hypocritical nonsense.

And I really could go down that road of “beleif superiority” and compare Christians to atheist and how they affected the world. I really could... but it would just lead to extreme bitterness on both sides (very more so on yours though). Please, let this diversion of “which people who believe ‘this’ are superior?” Die, here.

Go for it. It's still irrelevant to the veracity of your religion's claims. And just LOL @ "please let this die here" you're the one who brought it up. Again, are you even reading your own posts?

Who said Islam was not an legitimate religion?

Is this some kind of joke? Your religion says Islam isn't legitimate. All monotheistic religions say other religions are not legitimate. That's sort of the whole point of monotheism.

Well you asked a Biblical question so I gave you an Biblical answer.

No no no, I did not ask a "biblical" question; I asked an epistemological question about the bible. One to which I've, unsurprisingly, not received an adequate answer.

If you meant it in a scientific bend of how to prove God empowers people faith. Lol, it’s about absurd as asking men of science to prove, and locate heaven.

You're bringing this on yourself. It's not my problem if you can't give a reasonable or even coherent account of how you've come to accept the conclusions you do.

Science can’t answer spiritual things. For spiritual things are not of this world ( world - this demension - the universe). If you believe that if science can’t answer it - that means it’s not there or worth looking at, you are dangerously deluded.

Yeah this is what people who can't demonstrate their claims tend to say. If a claim can't be demonstrated, that doesn't necessarily falsify it, but it does mean there's no rational way to justify its acceptance.

So I'll return to my initial question: How do you distinguish between things outside reality and things that just simply aren't real? And how does one - and moreover, how did you specifically - come to accept a claim which, by your own admission, can't be empirically verified?

 

[J.I.L]

You’re smart... but you have very little wisdom to go with it. And it shows. I rest into the night, your post get reply later.

 

[Deleted member]

J.I.L You keep on referring to Christianity and Christian beliefs, but I’d like to know what you think of other religions.

 

[J.I.L]

J.I.L You keep on referring to Christianity and Christian beliefs, but I’d like to know what you think of other religions.

I’m stilling trying to understand what other religions means and their purpose and what their effect is on my own religion - according to my religion. Lol

My understanding is that a religion which seeks to take care of the weak and in need have worth.


My beleif of other religions depend on the religion.but do you have one in mind?

 

[Deleted member]

I’m stilling trying to understand what other religions means and their purpose and what their effect is on my own religion - according to my religion. Lol

[...]

My beleif of other religions depend on the religion.but do you have one in mind?

I was just curious as the title of this thread is "Discussion About Religion" not "Discussion About Christianity".

I wish us Christians could exert some type of rule like that in this country. For example, getting rid of any marriage that is contrary to it being between man and woman.

this is where I say homophobia's bad

 

[J.I.L]

I was just curious as the title of this thread is "Discussion About Religion" not "Discussion About Christianity".


this is where I say homophobia's bad

I Don’t fear gays mate. Nor would I banish homosexual behavior like behead them, assault rifle them or throw them off the roof like other countries do. I simply wouldn’t recognize them as a married couple. Under my regime at least. I used say let them be a “civil union” but that was just me being weak. They’ll be recognized as squat.

And this wouldn’t even be an state issue. It would a unitlateral executive descsion that every agency In the country must follow. Marriage only between the sex birth of a man and woman.

 

[Sucumbio]

I Don’t fear gays mate. Nor would I banish homosexual behavior like behead them, assault rifle them or throw them off the roof like other countries do. I simply wouldn’t recognize them as a married couple. Under my regime at least. I used say let them be a “civil union” but that was just me being weak. They’ll be recognized as squat.

And this wouldn’t even be an state issue. It would a unitlateral executive descsion that every agency In the country must follow. Marriage only between the sex birth of a man and woman.

Marriage is a church doctrine and therefore has no place in government per separation of church and state.

But because the IRS requires marital status anyone wishing to work has to be defined by said doctrine.

This is categorically hypocritical.

Therefore naturally people (remember what I said) will be people and people... Humans mate for life. Not all!

Just like not all people born with one genitalia or the other or both or neither or somewhere in between grow up in the right skin suit! Hormones and genetics define us. Science. All God's creatures whom he loves more than a human can.

And you, will boast that they won't be recognized under your regime? Nah no need to exaggerate in this discussion. We know true doctrine because we're well read.

The difficulty is that politicians have used every boiling point to win and this is a big one. If a Christian is misled and believes their faith orders them to treat others as beneath them, then they've not only missed the point of Christ's sacrifice, but are living in sin and don't know it because they're blinded by pride.

I haven't turned my back on God, J.I.L. I have made a personal decision to account for my own thoughts and subsequent actions and to do no harm. To live a life that's both rewarding to me and my family and that will leave the planet better for our being here. Do I pray? In the most desperate of situations we all pray. You just can't come to expect an answer. It's a mechanism. Your brains settles down a notch clearing the build up of neurotoxins as a result of system overload from adrenaline etc. Belief has nothing to do with this. I KNOW there's more to reality than we've glimpsed. We've felt it, benefited from it, been harmed by it... And one day we'll see it.

 

[J.I.L]

Marriage is a church doctrine and therefore has no place in government per separation of church and state.

But because the IRS requires marital status anyone wishing to work has to be defined by said doctrine.

This is categorically hypocritical.

Therefore naturally people (remember what I said) will be people and people... Humans mate for life. Not all!

Just like not all people born with one genitalia or the other or both or neither or somewhere in between grow up in the right skin suit! Hormones and genetics define us. Science. All God's creatures whom he loves more than a human can.

And you, will boast that they won't be recognized under your regime? Nah no need to exaggerate in this discussion. We know true doctrine because we're well read.

The difficulty is that politicians have used every boiling point to win and this is a big one. If a Christian is misled and believes their faith orders them to treat others as beneath them, then they've not only missed the point of Christ's sacrifice, but are living in sin and don't know it because they're blinded by pride.

I haven't turned my back on God, J.I.L. I have made a personal decision to account for my own thoughts and subsequent actions and to do no harm. To live a life that's both rewarding to me and my family and that will leave the planet better for our being here. Do I pray? In the most desperate of situations we all pray. You just can't come to expect an answer. It's a mechanism. Your brains settles down a notch clearing the build up of neurotoxins as a result of system overload from adrenaline etc. Belief has nothing to do with this. I KNOW there's more to reality than we've glimpsed. We've felt it, benefited from it, been harmed by it... And one day we'll see it.

Okay, then the government should not reconizge the existence of marriage...if it is a church issue. So spare me your nonsense. Marriage is reconizge as btween man and woman. That is final.

There's only two sexes. Even men of science see that. No "inbtween" or 1000002929203 genders. Only 2 sexes.


I don't see anyone "beneath" me. All human life has equal worth.

You're being mislead. Faith is more important then your deeds on earth.

 

[link2702]

Atheism isn’t a religion. It’s a rejection of religious fantasies and irrational thoughts and superstitions in favor of critical thinking and evidence based conclusions to life’s questions, not faith based ones.

 

[Sucumbio]

Okay, then the government should not reconizge the existence of marriage...if it is a church issue.

Correct.

So spare me your nonsense. Marriage is reconizge as btween man and woman. That is final.

What was the purpose of this sentence?

Just to make sure we both agree that marriage is only between men and women and does not belong as a government institution but a religious one.

There's only two sexes. Even men of science see that. No "inbtween" or 1000002929203 genders. Only 2 sexes.

Reread my post. And understand the language. People have been born more effeminate males or butchier females since we existed and it's because sex gender and attraction are all sliding scales from cis dominant male hetero blah blah to the other end. Turning a blind eye to entire swaths of people is the mark of a fascist and they're the worst kind of scum. So always choose your words carefully and make sure you know what you're saying before you say it. Someone (you know who) is always listening.

I don't see anyone "beneath" me. All human life has equal worth.

Then what were you on about?

You're being mislead. Faith is more important then your deeds on earth.

Oh? You should ask your pastor / holy man. They'll hopefully remind you that works and faith are both important. Just because my faith has been placed in a way that you don't understand does not mean I don't have it. I wouldn't be posting in this thread otherwise.

 

[J.I.L]

Atheism isn’t a religion. It’s a rejection of religious fantasies and irrational thoughts and superstitions in favor of critical thinking and evidence based conclusions to life’s questions, not faith based ones.

Atheism is a beleif system, kid.

Sucumbio Would you stop liking these atheist supporting post.

So you believe that economic benefits for marriage should not exist? The concept of "marriage" itself should not be reconoigzed at all by the state and it should be soley a cermonial event with nothing more to it? That's backwards.

feminate men, tom boyish women. Who cares? Marriage btween man and woman, only.

What are you on about? I never implied anyone is literally "beneath" me.

Faith and works are important, but faith is your only saving grace. Not works and faith. Your faith has been placed in faulty teachings my friend. It's not something I don't understand, it's something that sounds off. You're looking like a heretic.....if even that.

 

[Whia]

Atheism is a beleif system, kid.

No it isn't. Atheism is the rejection of one and only one claim and in itself has nothing to say on a single other matter. You literally said atheism and satanism overlap and that atheists are involved in the "dark arts". Don't pretend to understand atheism.

I'm still waiting for an answer to my question, by the way.

Also, behold my wisdom:

I was gonna say you ought to try being less overwhelmingly arrogant and presumptuous, but as the remainder of your post illustrates, that has no chance of happening.

I'm a prophet, clearly.

 

[Sucumbio]

Atheism is a beleif system, kid.

Sucumbio Would you stop liking these atheist supporting post[.

So you believe that economic benefits for marriage should not exist? The concept of "marriage" itself should not be reconoigzed at all by the state and it should be soley a cermonial event with nothing more to it? That's backwards.

feminate men, tom boyish women. Who cares? Marriage btween man and woman, only.

What are you on about? I never implied anyone is literally "beneath" me.

Faith and works are important, but faith is your only saving grace. Not works and faith. Your faith has been placed in faulty teachings my friend. It's not something I don't understand, it's something that sounds off. You're looking like a heretic.....if even that.

What's not to like? Religions aren't JUST belief systems.

That's backwards? It's a founding principle the same as the one that says Freedom of Religion which you clearly benefit from. What's backwards is being immobile.

Beneath, below, less than.. If you won't recognize a person or group because of their personal choices you are a Judge and that is pride.

Sounds off? If you're going to be obtuse we can nip that real quick and you know what I mean. To the point let me be absolutely clear.

Judgment by anyone especially who hasn't at least understood the material is still judgment and not cool.

We don't want kinda discussion. Ever



But this being the holy hand grenade of threads let's lob it in.

Are you Catholic? I ask because in the strictest sense that is the origin of today's Christian branches. It's origin is the Torah which predates Islam. Enough has happened over these centuries to ensure that the human energy max potential is concentrated in pools around earth... Shaping it culling killing rebuilding... Making in an image. An ode.

The source is correct. The Bible wins even when everyone thinks it's a joke. That's why it's clever and important to read. Many times... As I said not only was I baptized but I underwent 2 transfers into deep religions that last of which has me convinced without needing to see. I want to but I gotta wait until science does it. And with as much money as the Pope spends on science I am resting comfortably knowing that it may actually happen in my lifetime.

Then again I could die in 19 minutes.

My soul is prepared! How is yours? Said the dude to Indiana Jones. And indy saved them. Movies rock. This whole discussion has me salivating to watch all those awesome biblical tales.

 

[link2702]

Atheism is a beleif system, kid.

Sucumbio Would you stop liking these atheist supporting post.

So you believe that economic benefits for marriage should not exist? The concept of "marriage" itself should not be reconoigzed at all by the state and it should be soley a cermonial event with nothing more to it? That's backwards.

feminate men, tom boyish women. Who cares? Marriage btween man and woman, only.

What are you on about? I never implied anyone is literally "beneath" me.

Faith and works are important, but faith is your only saving grace. Not works and faith. Your faith has been placed in faulty teachings my friend. It's not something I don't understand, it's something that sounds off. You're looking like a heretic.....if even that.

First off, I’m older than you are, by a lot. So if anyone is the “kid” here, it’s you, and your attitude is certainly showing that. If this is the attitude you’re gonna be having here “kid” I suggest you don’t post on this board till you mature a little bit.

Second, no, it’s not a “belief system” because it’s not blindly accepting things as “fact” that can not be proven, tested, nor replicated in any sort of scientific or rational setting. Atheism asks for actual evidence to support claims such as some all powerful deity. Religion can not provide any actual evidence and instead tries to use fallacies such as circular reasoning (ie, the Bible is true cuz the Bible says it’s true.) as “evidence”, and rejects anything criticizing that reasoning.

 

[J.I.L]

First off, I’m older than you are, by a lot. So if anyone is the “kid” here, it’s you, and your attitude is certainly showing that. If this is the attitude you’re gonna be having here “kid” I suggest you don’t post on this board till you mature a little bit.

Second, no, it’s not a “belief system” because it’s not blindly accepting things as “fact” that can not be proven, tested, nor replicated in any sort of scientific or rational setting. Atheism asks for actual evidence to support claims such as some all powerful deity. Religion can not provide any actual evidence and instead tries to use fallacies such as circular reasoning (ie, the Bible is true cuz the Bible says it’s true.) as “evidence”, and rejects anything criticizing that reasoning.

Coolboy seems to be all over these forums liking every comment against me.

Anyway, ‘sir’, look at the definition of an beleif system. It does not have to be religious base. Those who are atheist tend to Usually have a similar beleif system in that everything must explained and confirmed through scientific lenses. And anything outside of that purview is rejected and “not real”. It’s an beleif system.

Whia your big post was very amusing. But I’ll answer the last question which is how to distinguish extra terrestrial plains from imaginary planes since neither really are not of this dimension. Good question. And the answer is.... FAITH. And also common logic and historical studies too, like for example common logic: Harry Potter obviously is imaginary because it’s a tale created by men. Same with any genres or even fables/legends, if you can get the historical information, created by the imagination of men. Now when you start to decipher between differnt religions it’s a little more complicated. If you are a fellow interested in religion but don’t know which one is correct - I’d advise you research. But whatever descsion you make - or a lack of one takes a leap of faith. The only people who don’t have faith in any descsion are undecided and agnostics.

 

[Whia]

Whia But I’ll answer the last question which is how to distinguish extra terrestrial plains from imaginary planes since neither really are not of this dimension. Good question. And the answer is.... FAITH.

So I'll just reiterate the same follow-up question I asked a month ago and still haven't gotten a coherent answer to: Why have faith in things that can’t be observed or empirically verified?

And also common logic and historical studies too

Historical documents/artifacts/etc are a form of evidence. If you have evidence then you don't need faith, but you invoked faith specifically because you don't have evidence. So which is it?

If you are a fellow interested in religion but don’t know which one is correct - I’d advise you research.

See above. If, by your own admission, your claims can't be empirically verified, then what even is there to research? How could an honest and reasonable person come to the same conclusion you have if there's nothing empirical or demonstrable guiding them towards it?

 

[Whia]

Anyway, ‘sir’, look at the definition of an beleif system. It does not have to be religious base. Those who are atheist tend to Usually have a similar beleif system in that everything must explained and confirmed through scientific lenses. And anything outside of that purview is rejected and “not real”. It’s an beleif system.

This is wrong. Again. There is no worldview attached to atheism beyond the rejection of god claims. Atheism has no intrinsic relationship with science or empiricism either.

 

[J.I.L]

So I'll just reiterate the same follow-up question I asked a month ago and still haven't gotten a coherent answer to: Why have faith in things that can’t be observed or empirically verified?


Historical documents/artifacts/etc are a form of evidence. If you have evidence then you don't need faith, but you invoked faith specifically because you don't have evidence. So which is it?


See above. If, by your own admission, your claims can't be empirically verified, then what even is there to research? How could an honest and reasonable person come to the same conclusion you have if there's nothing empirical or demonstrable guiding them towards it?

Why have faith in such things? because you trust them. if your family told you something, which you could not see or "empirically" (lol) verify - would you not listen to them or trust them? what you seem to be asking is why trust things in which you can't see ("see" being symbolic for anything you believe and do that has aligned with the information you have). And that's a question you have to answer yourself. You don't seem to trust anything. And not trusting anything because you don't immediatly understand or compute the meaning of it is an unwise way to live (though not always).

the defintion of faith is a complete trust or confidence in something or someone. That's all faith is.

And even with the "evidence" you have..you have to trust and hope it's good evidence that'll lead you to the right conclusion. What's the point of evidence? so it can lead you to what's the TRUTH. Even if you verify it 10000000000000000000000000000X times...you have to have hope that your verifcation methods are accurate and correct. You seem to downplay how much faith and grace play in all of our lives. The only thing you can say that's not really faith is like math. Because math is present and observable. Anything you can see right now is present and observable. But faith is the belief in things not seen. Point is, even if you have evidence, you may still need to put your faith in something. Not all evidence is exclusive to faith.


Depends on the claims, whia. For example, you cant empiriclly verify where God is or who He is based on "science" or where heaven is or who demons or angels are. Now in your mind, "exactly...so it should be dismissed as imaginary". lol. Idk if that's the smartest thing to do.
But you can examine the histroical claims of the Bible. Both aren't mutally exclusive. Again, when talking about these things you have to be spefici. I'm not here to argue theism vs atheism. That's a waist of time. I'm here t discuss the Bible with whatever the heck you believe.

Okay...that's fair. You're basically putting atheism the same as diesm, theism and agnsotism. I mean, most atheist have cultivated a simliar philsophical world view of life. Hence what I orignally said which led to say atheism is a beleif system. But whatever. Just playing sematics to devoid yourself of an anything simliar with religon. lol. Cute.

 

[Whia]

Why have faith in such things? because you trust them.

Why trust something that can't be empirically verified?

if your family told you something, which you could not see or "empirically" (lol) verify - would you not listen to them or trust them?

Depends on the nature of the claim. If a family member tells me they got Taco Bell yesterday, then that's an easy claim to accept on its face. If that same person then tells me they have a colony of fairies living in their closet, I'd find that significantly more dubious.

what you seem to be asking is why trust things in which you can't see ("see" being symbolic for anything you believe and do that has aligned with the information you have). And that's a question you have to answer yourself. You don't seem to trust anything. And not trusting anything because you don't immediatly understand or compute the meaning of it is an unwise way to live (though not always).

Yeah this is a game a lot of apologists like to play. Just because your position is indefensible and borderline incoherent, that doesn't mean I have an unreasonable standard of evidence. I'll "trust" anything if it can be demonstrated; you not being able to demonstrate anything is your problem, not mine.

the defintion of faith is a complete trust or confidence in something or someone. That's all faith is.

This is funny for multiple reasons.

1. It's false. The bible specifically defines faith as acceptance of things not seen. (Hebrews 11:1 - Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen / Corinthians 2 5:7 - For we walk by faith, not by sight)

2. It means you're not using the word faith consistently with your own definition. Repeatedly you've invoked faith as a stand-in for a lack of evidence, but now you're defining faith in such a way where evidence or lack thereof isn't even part of the definition.

3. In light of this definition you purport to be using, it means your defense of your conclusion has been tautological. If faith only means trust, then, well, I'll just quote the first sentence of your post:

Why have faith in such things? because you trust them.

So the reason you have faith in things is because you trust them, but you just defined faith as synonymous with trust, so literally what you just wrote here was "I trust things because I trust them."

This is laughable nonsense.

And even with the "evidence" you have..you have to trust and hope it's good evidence that'll lead you to the right conclusion.

In the words of Tim Minchin:

"Science adjusts its views based on what's observed
Faith is the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved"

"Trust" and "hope" don't enter the equation. If a proposition can be consistently reliably demonstrated and independently verified, then it's accepted and only accepted tentatively.

What's the point of evidence? so it can lead you to what's the TRUTH. Even if you verify it 10000000000000000000000000000X times...you have to have hope that your verifcation methods are accurate and correct.

Well, no. The scientific method doesn't endeavour to discover the truth, it endeavours to create models that best reflect observable reality while acknowledging that objective, capital-T Truth™ may not ever be accessible. Science is about what's evident, not necessarily "True".

That said, the efficacy of those methods can themselves be verified. Appealing to radical skepticism doesn't change the fact that, as far as any of us can tell, the reality we ostensibly inhabit still behaves consistently and predictably.

You seem to downplay how much faith and grace play in all of our lives.

And you overstate it, because you don't understand the scientific method and, like a lot of other apologists, equivocate on the definition of faith.

But faith is the belief in things not seen.

Ahem:

the defintion of faith is a complete trust or confidence in something or someone. That's all faith is.

Are you even trying?

Depends on the claims, whia. For example, you cant empiriclly verify where God is or who He is based on "science" or where heaven is or who demons or angels are. Now in your mind, "exactly...so it should be dismissed as imaginary". lol. Idk if that's the smartest thing to do.

Good thing that's not what I'm doing then.

I've literally already said this exact thing so I'll just quote myself: If a claim can't be demonstrated, that doesn't necessarily falsify it, but it does mean there's no rational way to justify its acceptance.

A claim can be 100% true and still not reasonably justifiable if the preponderance of evidence is not in its favour.

But you can examine the histroical claims of the Bible. Both aren't mutally exclusive.

Yes they are. If you have evidence, you don't need faith. If you had anything of substance, you'd produce it. If your position was rational, you wouldn't be constantly flip-flopping on your terms.

I'm not here to argue theism vs atheism. That's a waist of time. I'm here t discuss the Bible with whatever the heck you believe.

How do you propose the bible be discussed without simultaneously discussing atheism and theism? Unless you want all the posters in this thread to grant the bible is true at the outset of the discussion, you should maybe adjust your expectations.

Okay...that's fair. You're basically putting atheism the same as diesm, theism and agnsotism.

Uh, no I'm not, because those are all completely different things.

I mean, most atheist have cultivated a simliar philsophical world view of life. Hence what I orignally said which led to say atheism is a beleif system.

Sure, but that's essentially incidental, and so the claim that atheism is a belief system is still false.

But whatever. Just playing sematics to devoid yourself of an anything simliar with religon. lol. Cute.

Pointing out that you don't know what you're talking about is not playing semantics.

 

[link2702]

You know JIL, ever since you’ve started posting here, one thing has been consistent; you have a very condescending attitude towards anyone that doesn’t share your narrow worldview. You belittle people, attempt subtle ad hominem attacks, and overall give the impression that you don’t really want to have any serious discussions with anyone that disagrees with you. You just want to have those who do agree with your views to come in and like your posts and just reinforce your points with their agreement. But when someone comes in and points out the fallacies in your arguments and rips them to pieces your responses fall along the lines of “ lol ok.” “Cute” and other pointless dribble of condescending nonsense like a kid who can’t make a solid counterpoint.

Imo Your attitude shows you really don’t have the mental maturity to be posting here, rather than have a serious discussion or debate, you want people to just accept your posts as all factual and not accept any criticism. Handling criticism with petty attacks, sarcasm and a lousy attitude aren’t signs of a person that should be posting on the serious discussion board.

However it’s not in my power to decide who should and shouldn’t post on this board, as that falls within the power of a mod/admin. What IS in my power to control however is to decide on whether or not i want to bother continuing to listen to you spout off condescending crap and nonsense to anyone who disagrees with you. the ignore button exists, and in this situation it’s very clear it should be used.

And while I know that someone like yourself will try to view this as “winning” the debate/argument, one look at how many people have pointed out the flaws in your arguments, as well as your attitude both here and in other topics, even the ones who might share your views on certain subjects, all point to you not “winning” anything.

 

[J.I.L]

You know JIL, ever since you’ve started posting here, one thing has been consistent; you have a very condescending attitude towards anyone that doesn’t share your narrow worldview. You belittle people, attempt subtle ad hominem attacks, and overall give the impression that you don’t really want to have any serious discussions with anyone that disagrees with you. You just want to have those who do agree with your views to come in and like your posts and just reinforce your points with their agreement. But when someone comes in and points out the fallacies in your arguments and rips them to pieces your responses fall along the lines of “ lol ok.” “Cute” and other pointless dribble of condescending nonsense like a kid who can’t make a solid counterpoint.

Imo Your attitude shows you really don’t have the mental maturity to be posting here, rather than have a serious discussion or debate, you want people to just accept your posts as all factual and not accept any criticism. Handling criticism with petty attacks, sarcasm and a lousy attitude aren’t signs of a person that should be posting on the serious discussion board.

However it’s not in my power to decide who should and shouldn’t post on this board, as that falls within the power of a mod/admin. What IS in my power to control however is to decide on whether or not i want to bother continuing to listen to you spout off condescending crap and nonsense to anyone who disagrees with you. the ignore button exists, and in this situation it’s very clear it should be used.

And while I know that someone like yourself will try to view this as “winning” the debate/argument, one look at how many people have pointed out the flaws in your arguments, as well as your attitude both here and in other topics, even the ones who might share your views on certain subjects, all point to you not “winning” anything.

Thank goodness you’re not the top boss admin here or even a mod. Your post reeks of "I really would like to censor you you little snot."
Anyway dude, not letting you shut down the good work I'm doing here. Happening too often as of recent. Some person comes in to a discussion and starts attacking my chracter. I laugh at their post, first. lol Then I respond. Then the person eithers get heated and start name calling me or another random jumps into the fray....forcing sucumbio to shut down the thread. Not going to let you do that.

I'll leave at this, I am who I am. If you find it hurtful or unpleasent...I'm sorry. But such is life. Some people who like...and other who you don't like.

P.S - have you seen my comment to like ratio? lol. It's like after 3 or 4 comments I make do I get a like. Point is, I don't look for likes kid. I just state the facts. Kinda how I role. Being myself tends to get me some enimies..... some of whom I find incredibly amusing and funny (coolboy) and some symapthetic allies. So...it is what it is. But anyway....enough about me...get back on topic. Not letting another Mr. "J.I.L, your comments trigger me" dude from shutting down another one of my threads. Not again.

Whia I used to call myself an atheist bounty hunter. I would go to atheist videos, and pause at like the first 5 seconds, and head straight to the comment section (who needs to watch garbage material of some insecure atheist people who have a extreme hate boner to Christianity. I found it disgraceful. Do we Christians have channels dedicated to poking fun at atheist or differnt religons? no. because it's benath us, distasteful, unkind, pathetic, and just a disgrace). I used to discuss the Bible with them, and I'd almost always just rip their arguments all to shred. I'd get like quadruple teamed - respond to all of them and tear their questions, and deceitful talking points to shred by the power of the Bible.
But that was at least a year ago. I'm rusty. Wisdom goggles need to be rejuvinated. Hence why you're exposing me on a few points. But that's going to change.

What do you mean by empircally verified? It's verfied by whom? I believe the Bible is the verifired Word of God.
I looked up the defintion of empircal and it means verfiable based on observation or expirence not by theory or "pure logic". By your own frution, you trusting that your parents went to taco bell would you be trusting in some not verfied empircally.

The Bible makes a huge claim. That all men are in sin, and that only through hope and faith in Jesus Christ may we find salvation. Otherwsie, you literally will be damned because of your inate rebllion. Big claims, it is only by faith from God that you accept and act rightfully upon such claims.

What do you mean by demonstrate? it has multple defintions.

The defintion of that and the Bible's (thanks for the qutation of sciprute...edifying to read) aren't exclusive. To believe in the things not seen means we must have complete trust in confidence in the one who tells/guides us. As you can see, I later say the Bible defintion as well. I was just quoting the defintion from wikipedia.

What are you talking about? faith and trust ARE SYNONUMS in of itself. faith is just more of spirtual word that the Bible uses. So yes, you have faith in things because you trust and/or believe in them. Like what is so hard to mentally understand about that? You're just over analyzing and confusing yourself.

So you don't believe in searching for Truth. You just believe in some man-made process of where you sound the most intelectual and smartest then make claims backed by the most-beleiving arguments based on whatever evidence they can throw up or expose and call it a day wether it's truth or not. Sounds backwards and always a step behind.

Faith in vaccume isn't always expident. What matters is WHERE YOU PUT your faith. And putting your faith in Christ is superior to anything else. You see, now i'm starting to remember. This is how you combat decieving talking points. You atheist tend to look at things in wholesome and ignore the nuances. Like. ATHEISM VS THEISM. FAITH VS EVIDENCE. That's why you guys can be so deadly. But when you actually look at the Biblical nuances truth of life....who can stand against? my bounty hunting is starting to come back. Dude, I'd advise you stop right now. Drop this conersation and surrender your life to Jesus. Because you're about to start to get exposed.
And I feel sort of empathy to those who have differnt religons.....I may be offending them by declaring my religon as surpeme and the only way to salvation. But I must speak Truth to power. Even if it is tough to swallow.

there's no "rational way to justfy it's acceptance". Hm...interesting. How about this for a rationale. People have the right to worship and beleive in the gods or God they so choose or are led to. And you Mr. Whia, should accept that. Regardless if your "logic" finds it insane or not. It's insane, yet atheist don't even make into the top 5 of held beleifs about God. lol. But hey, i'm in your boat (trigger warning to people of differnt relgions...REPEAT....Trigger warning). I find any spritual claim that's not rooted to be in complete acceptance and beleif in the Bible is a complete waist of time and all of those unforunate souls who died in the grave beleiving such lies and diversions will and are suffering greatly as they await judgement. Once judgement happens, they will all be thrown into the lake of fire and burn forever, amen. Dam I could give of what the population my religon is. The Bible is ABSLOUTE Truth. But the acceptance of Christ can save you from such a terrible fate.




Anyway, you wrote some more mumbo jumbo down which I don't want to respond to anymore since i'm tired so i'll leave it as this. I.....hm......I have a...Idk about respect....but at least an appcirate for the multitute of religons. People who are apart of an religon, the ones I've observe at least, have a certain hummility and submission to them that I find to be eye candy and commendable. So even though I, by the authority of the Bible, make such damning declarations of their beleifs/faith and religon... I still do truly appcriate their existence in so much that it could be worse. Maybe because the diversity of religon keep the world seperated which allows more beuatiful diversity but most importantly avenues so Christanity can be spread. If you look at the tower of babel in the Bible....men did not seperate and instead cozlied togther and built some abominable tower "trying to reach God". When the world comes togther in union and wants to esbtliash such pacts through strong global orginzations/confedracies or even like a one earth government.....NWO (new world order) stuff......Global human solidarity really isn't a good thing. Gloablism isn't a good thing. And i'm just so pleased to see, ironcially, the GLOBAL backlash to gloablism by countries electing more consefvative leaders who put their country first. Or at least run on it. And it's not surprising that those who want such futurstic "u(dy)topian" ideals tend to be seuclar and those who don't believe in gods or God. because this what the Bible predicts. In the end times..... when atheist and agnsotic run a munk in the world....it's going to be a very terrible place. One World order, and then they are going to elect some nice talking dude who'll be the head of this one world order. And he'll just do terrible stuff and this world will be a terribe place.Thankfully, it will be for only a short time since Christ will come and wipe him out and the evil governments who have submitted to him. This guy will declare himself above all this is called God or gods. who in the world could claim this but an atheist minded person? and it's no surprise since atheist rulership lead to some of the opressive, tyrannical, deceptive....like just terrible rule. And it's no surprise they mask themselves as "saint" people or "good" people. Another reason why I loathe the philsophy of "humanism". It's one of those phiolsphoies that I believe is described in the end times that would floruish in the world. Anyway, on one these very deep heavy rants. Hardended atheism really leads to some terrible soceities......TERRIBLE socieities. Atheism and most of those who idenitify as such...the ones I've seen at least.....I never seen something so satantic. It's really like leftist atheist..right wing atheist are not much of a problem (though be careful...right wing atheist can be quite brutal and ruthless....hitler esq...hitler was a right wing atheist for those wondering what I mean)....though understnably why they have such low numbers....left wing atheist on the other hand. I mean this is TRUEST HONESTY. i've never seen a group so.... who SOMEHOW SOMEWAY... align themselves with EVERYTHING and ANYTHING that stands against and most antongazaning Christianity. It's amazing. They just most accuratley know how to best be the farthest from Christanity. And they do it so...deceivinly too. They aren't babric...they are up right and just insticvtly know how to best antagonize and lead people away from Christ. Like they can hypocrtically flip flop on issues and values....if it means Christianity goes down. It's satanic in my opinion that's exactly what satan does. Satan's only focus and spight is on God and His children. That's it. and does whatever to upset that. At least when I look at other non christian ideolgy...they stand for something and are loyal to that cause. And will fight anyone who gets in the way of that. And will help anyone who interest align. But leftist atheism. from what I observe, they just live an really almost soley live to see CHRISTNAITY DEAD. that's it. Christianity dying and being forgotten and thrown into irrevelancy is like what they truly live for. Like there are so many examples:

1. Isreael. HOW IN THE WORLD....did leftist secular people know about israel and palestine and somehow start just siding with palestine and being "anti Zion". Bro, that used to be just a far right cult who despised israel. Now leftist embarace it hard. You know why that's interesting...in the end times...when the NEW world order one earth regime takes place... guess which country is going to be targeted....... ISRAEL. Guess what the relgion of this NWO regime will be? probably atheist/agnsotic and like extremly secular. Hm...interesting. yet atheist now largely don't like israel. Don't worry I got more.
2. In the ent times, the Bible describes how deceiving doctrines COMMAND people not to eat meat or given into marriage. What is the poltical movement who wants to abstain from meats etc.? what are their relgious demographics probably? secular, atheist agnostic, GLOABLIST mostly. And you want to know why they are decieving? think about the good fruits the Bible says. Give to the poor and needy, treat strangers well, be kind loving, etc. Humanism (which is the philsophical acceptance of alot of these secular movements) SAYS A LOT OF those good fruits as well. Hence why even the Bible describes it as deceiving and well crafted.
You think i'm done?
NO. I GOT MORE.
3. Look at how secular libs like to attack good Bible beleiving Christians but usually turn a favaborable or silent towards islam. They attack Christians for being bigots, homophobes, sexist and whatever the standard NPC liberal talk they do. But yet when it comes to islam, they embarce or turn deaf ears. Compromising your message if it means turning your sights against Christanity...sounds like it?


I have more but i'll stop at 3. Again, i'm not trying to lead you to hate anyone. I love everyone, even my enimies. BUT THESE ARE SOME OF THE MOST WOKEST FACTS you'll ever see ON HERE. Be aware and be viligant. My advice... if you don't want to become a Christian but are on the fence or are unsure about all of this. SAY NO TO GLOBALISM. FACTS ONLY. Now I tend to condemn condemn leftist but not all are bad. Classical liberalism is a gem. And some liberals I kind of admire are people like Yang, marriannee williamsom and Obummer (Lol....I like saying that name. Just like I like to sometimes spell out Drumph....lol...nothing against them they just have funny troll names). Them without being corrupted by modern leftism are good liberals who's kind defitnly have a place in poltics.




This was a really woke article. kudos t whoever read this to the end. Have a feeling i'm about to get reported hard.