Discovery of the century

[Supermodel From Paris]

Grab release to footstool on MK is legit.

It must be done on frames 9, 10, or 11 of your dash animation after the grab release.

I am still working on which frames you must input the footstool.

Enjoy this bit of useless information that will probably gain you nothing.

I love you.

#grandpasfp

Video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q7h_uq8vvE

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

This is genius

 

[infiniteV115]

This is cool...but I could only really see this being useful in dubs.
And it isn't really useful in dubs in the first place cause the opponent could just footstool them.

Maybe it could be useful on Delfino/Halberd during a transformation, but that's all I really see it doing in singles.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

This is cool...but I could only really see this being useful in dubs.
And it isn't really useful in dubs in the first place cause the opponent could just footstool them.

Maybe it could be useful on Delfino/Halberd during a transformation, but that's all I really see it doing in singles.

Sol Diviner, what are you doing on v115's account?

In all seriousness, though, I know that it's useless but I just spent like 2 hours figuring out and messing with frame advance bring you this cutting edge information so I really wanted to share it.

I'm of the opinion that knowing what's possible even if it doesn't seem worthwhile now might break **** later.

 

[infiniteV115]

Can you check if downB spike/footstool are guaranteed? XD

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Can you check if downB spike/footstool are guaranteed? XD

Tomorrow, but I sincerely doubt it due to range/frame data stuff.

 

[infiniteV115]

Also can you check who else we can footstool? I imagine it also works on Squirtle, Pikachu and Lucas cause it's these 3 dudes + MK that we can air release CG, so they all have similar air release trajectories.

And I'm assuming MK goes into his tumble-like animation (ie a normal footstool as opposed to one of those footstools where you just jump off their head and nothing happens to them) even if you footstool him during his air release animation?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Also can you check who else we can footstool? I imagine it also works on Squirtle, Pikachu and Lucas cause it's these 3 dudes + MK that we can air release CG, so they all have similar air release trajectories.

And I'm assuming MK goes into his tumble-like animation (ie a normal footstool as opposed to one of those footstools where you just jump off their head and nothing happens to them) even if you footstool him during his air release animation?

Yes, it is a normal footstool animation that is not techable.

I can check all that for you.

So you're aware, Meta Knight can't do anything for 51? frames. ZSS can't move for 29 frames. So that means you have 22 frames or so to make stuff happen. Well actually a litttleee more than that because he has to start his airdodge, but yeah.

 

[Player-1]

air release > footstool > platform cancel, run off, tilt lock/dsmash/w.e you want.

 

[infiniteV115]

PC--> instant drop through would probably be a lot better lol

 

[NickRiddle]

This is amazing.

 

[PEACE7]

**** yea so many new things are been discovered for zss.

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

looks like my SV infinite is gonna be even easier to set up

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Don't get too excited, it isn't "easy."

As it turns out, the jump to land the footstool has to be done as early as possible, which means it must be done on either frame 9 or 10. It seems inconsistent, sometimes it doesn't work on 9, sometimes it doesn't work on 10. It might be that I'm not inputting the right hop (it might need to be a full or short hop) or that I'm not footstooling on the right frame.

My point is that the trick seems to need to be frame perfect (3 frame-1 windows in a row, essentially) and the rewards don't give you much except a few PC tricks. Even if you know exactly when to do it (I still don't because I suck at counting) it's ****ing hard.

It's definitely possible but I can't make it work consistently, I have to mess with frame advance inputs more.

If you want to confirm that it works (so you know I'm not full of ****) and see what it looks like for yourself, go into training mode and set the game to 1/4 speed and try it. 1/4 training mode adds additional frames. It doesn't usually affect what is possble, but it does give you a bigger window for execution (which is why practicing things in 1/4 mode isn't a good idea).

Video if you care: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Q7h_uq8vvE

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Oh, it also works on squirtle but not pikachu. You can actually grab release squirtle near a ldege and footstool him, but I don't think it's a guaranteed kill.

EDIT: disregard plz

 

[infiniteV115]

It isn't..Squirtle can live a dsmash footstool edgehog offstage if he has his DJ

We would have to air release footstool him and then dsmash footstool him out of his DJ lol

We're probably better off going with air release--> dash attack --> low angled ftilt on Squirtle maybe? (Offstage I mean)

Okay...now I saw that edit. Really?!
Get a video please.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Err.. you sure?

Nickriddle's video and thread both say he dies.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah, but the dsmash footstool edgehog is assuming the opponent doesn't have their DJ
If you're air releasing Squirtle offstage, chances are he has it.

Also...since you seem to be good at testing stuff and whatnot, I was wondering if you would be willing to see who else (ie who aside from Falco) we can get the air release offstage-->laser-->footstool?

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

So here's the deal: the guy I was testing with just left for work. I have a clip of me doing it to a CPU if you want to ese what it would look like, but CPU squirtle doesn't recover right in this situation. I'll upload a video and make it unlisted so that you can see what it looks like, but if I find out later it doesn't work, are we cool?

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah yeah go ahead, seeing what it looks like is pretty important imo

 

[T-block]

o_o

i find it VERY hard to believe that a footstool will kill squirtle. on most stages i'd expect him to be able to make it back onto the stage with his up-b

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

o_o

i find it VERY hard to believe that a footstool will kill squirtle. on most stages i'd expect him to be able to make it back onto the stage with his up-b

I actually doubt too. I think if he jumped and up+b'd immediately he could make it back.

I need a second person to know for sure though.

Here's me trolling on a level 9 CPU removed

The thing that leads me to believe it might work is where the footstool leaves him. At first I thought he could jump and uair you, but the ledge inv frames protect you from that. Then he has to up+b, but it seems he can't quite make it.

Either way this is an awesome edgeguard opportunity and free damage no matter what. And you can do it every time you land a stun or grab.

 

[infiniteV115]

I can tell by the video that he can definitely make it back, and the upB doesn't have to be 'immediate', he'll live as long as it's not late and he doesn't jump in the wrong direction like an idiot.

However, I suppose that if we manage to grab Squirtle out of his DJ in the right position then it's a guaranteed death.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

I can tell by the video that he can definitely make it back, and the upB doesn't have to be 'immediate', he'll live as long as it's not late and he doesn't jump in the wrong direction like an idiot.

However, I suppose that if we manage to grab Squirtle out of his DJ in the right position then it's a guaranteed death.

Yeah you're probably right. If you dash grab him across the stage, you can also put him offstage for free whenever you want, which is awesome. Hmm, could we footstool, then land on the stage and try to dsmash?

You can also dair spike him!

Any other characters we air release with bad recovery? I doubt it works on olimar

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah we definitely can't footstool Olimar out of the air release, he goes way too high.
Same with Jiggs.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Yeah we definitely can't footstool Olimar out of the air release, he goes way too high.
Same with Jiggs.

i really wish dair that spikes without killing us

 

[DeLux]

My god, I give a man frame advance and this is what he comes up with >_>

Give SFP like a month, ZSS going up the tier list. Calling it now

 

[[FBC] Papa Mink]

You can kill diddy with dair and live if he barrels

 

[#HBC | ZoZo]

So yeah, Smashville/Lylat infinite from ages ago. Anyone up to get bleeding fingers learning it?

Can you test step(s) > regrab and the same for fsmash? I think I've gotten both to work but I could be delusional

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Fsmash is too damn long.

It's like 40+ frames to the tip, there's no way that's happening.

Now smallstep CG, possibly.

 

[DeLux]

Test that jump squat cancel question please :D

ITT: Ask SFP to test something

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Are you asking if down-b can cancel the early part of the jump animation? Sorry, I'm not up-to-date on all the terminologies.

If that's what you're asking then I can say with confidence that it does, since you can jump cancel down-b OOS.

 

[DeLux]

Check to make sure in frame advance please

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

sure thing.

 

[DeLux]

I only ask because I constantly try to use Flip Jump OOS via jump cancelling and always seem to get hit

Could be that I'm bad at brawl though lol

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Sorry, no. It looks like jumpsquat completes before down-b comes out. Good thing I checked.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

Also, no to smallstep CG on MK. Yes on Squirtle, but it was standing anyway.

 

[infiniteV115]

Yeah I'm fairly certain the only things that can be jump-cancelled (therefore cutting out jumpsquat frames) are usmash and upB. For all characters.

 

[Supermodel From Paris]

While we're here, grounded item throws:

Up throw: 27 frames 7 IASA (can act on frame 20)
Dthrow: 23/3 (can act on frame 20)
Fthrow: 23/2 (can act on frame 21)

And aerial throws:

Uthrow: 23
dthrow: 20
fthrow: 20

None of the aerial throws have IASA frames but the animations end faster. I'll get data for when the projectile gains a hitbox soon!

DeLux if you have a decent gaming machine you can run Dolphin for frame testing, it has amazing tools that let you place inputs automatically on the next frame which allow you to test things without any headache.

 

[infiniteV115]

Uthrow and dthrow are equally as quick? O.O
I should use uthrow more then lol