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Discovering the Chozo Artifacts: A 3.5 Samus Video Discussion

Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 5, 2007
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394
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Camden, AR
I'm starting to play a lot more Samus in tournament now. Here is a match against one of the up-and-coming best Ganons in the area. I would greatly appreciate any critique on my gameplay.

Bubbaking (Samus) vs AIDs (Ganon)
Your gameplay is very solid imo. I couldn't really find anything wrong other than use of Missles at frame disadvantage around the beginning. It's awesome to see an aggressive Samus like myself.

There's a few times the Ganon player could've baited some reads on frame advantage but instead copped out for spacing that he didn't need. On higher level Ganon's they take advantage of that type of thing.
 

Tha_Shogun_12

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Oh yea, Letting go of ledge and jumping up for a FAir is a really good punish, there were 2 or three times where the ganon whiffed a back air or at a huge frame disadvantage where it would've connected but you used FTilt and a rising attack instead. The FAir can also lead to DSmash or DTilt depending on your idea for combos or attempted edge guarding
 

Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 5, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Camden, AR
Footage of my Samus in Grand Finals at MKS9 yesterday. The matches start at 6:52:18

http://www.twitch.tv/kashmirkrew/b/673122897

Won another tournament with my Samus this weekend. This was at MKS9 against currently ranked No. 1 in Arkansas again. What makes me happy about this is that it's against Falcon, Samus's weakeness.

This may give some ideas on what to do against Captain Falcons as Samus.

Enjoy
 

Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 5, 2007
Messages
394
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Camden, AR
Vods where Finally posted from the tournament Last week. I used Samus pretty much the whole tournament so I got alot of different matches recorded. Here the go

Vs. Black Bean (G&W)


Vs. Dru2 in GF's (Meta Knight/Mewtwo)


Vs. Arby in GF's (Captain Falcon)



I also have some footage from the tournament 3 weeks ago @ S@X

Vs. Supopovich (Ganon)

 

bubbaking

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
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Location
Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
I pretty much go all Samus at tournaments these days except for a few games where I go MK or Zard or something. Here are some sets against the best Luigi in the area, a very good Lucas, and a decent Mario. I would greatly appreciate any critique or advice on my gameplay.

Vs. 1+1=3 (Luigi) [I used Samus games 1 and 3]

Vs. Ghetto ***** (Lucas)

Vs. Vari (Mario) [I used Samus game 1 only]
 
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Orion Prime

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Jun 22, 2014
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AL
Vods where Finally posted from the tournament Last week. I used Samus pretty much the whole tournament so I got alot of different matches recorded.
I know you didnt ask for comments/critiques on your vids, so feel free to ignore/flame if desired, but here are some random things that popped into my head watching some off the matches:
- Lots of raw rising/falling nairs. Good for eating space, intercepting higher opponents, and trades in a lot of situations, but opponents with good in-game strategy could possibly pick up on this and bait it out and punish. Certain characters can flat-out crush that option, such as a Ganon can dair through Samus' rising nair or Usmash through falling nair - even if they do trade that's one I'd rather avoid.
- Against Ganon, the crawl is very useful. Lots of his grounded attacks go over it (jab, ftilt, fsmash, usmash, get-up attack), makes very small hurtbox for SHFFL'd bair/fair, and boost attack can shoot you under aerial approaches oftentimes. Saw you use it a bit, but Ganon is one matchup I've found morphball very useful in.
- Something to try formore charge shot connections: opponent in shield--> WD through them and face away --> B-reverse charge shot. Nothing fancy, just catches folks off guard sometimes.
- I personally hate ice mode against Ganon. Ice fair and usmash are kinda neutralized by Ganon fair and dair, so i always stay in fire.
- One of the best players in my area mains GnW, and I hate fighting him. I just try to play super campy and avoid getting grabbed at all costs (getting uthrow'd can be horrible). I much prefer ice against GnW. Dthrow --> fair/usmash is a more solid chance at a kill than trying to tag a charge shot out of a throw bc he can just quickly upB away from it.

Just my thoughts...
 
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Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 5, 2007
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394
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Camden, AR
I know you didnt ask for comments/critiques on your vids, so feel free to ignore/flame if desired, but here are some random things that popped into my head watching some off the matches:
- Lots of raw rising/falling nairs. Good for eating space, intercepting higher opponents, and trades in a lot of situations, but opponents with good in-game strategy could possibly pick up on this and bait it out and punish. Certain characters can flat-out crush that option, such as a Ganon can dair through Samus' rising nair or Usmash through falling nair - even if they do trade that's one I'd rather avoid.
- Against Ganon, the crawl is very useful. Lots of his grounded attacks go over it (jab, ftilt, fsmash, usmash, get-up attack), makes very small hurtbox for SHFFL'd bair/fair, and boost attack can shoot you under aerial approaches oftentimes. Saw you use it a bit, but Ganon is one matchup I've found morphball very useful in.
- Something to try formore charge shot connections: opponent in shield--> WD through them and face away --> B-reverse charge shot. Nothing fancy, just catches folks off guard sometimes.
- I personally hate ice mode against Ganon. Ice fair and usmash are kinda neutralized by Ganon fair and dair, so i always stay in fire.
- One of the best players in my area mains GnW, and I hate fighting him. I just try to play super campy and avoid getting grabbed at all costs (getting uthrow'd can be horrible). I much prefer ice against GnW. Dthrow --> fair/usmash is a more solid chance at a kill than trying to tag a charge shot out of a throw bc he can just quickly upB away from it.

Just my thoughts...

Thanks for the heads up but yea you are right on the NAir outta shield as my brother punishes it often when I whiff with it or when he knows he's at frame advantage with it. I spam it often as long as my opponent doesn't know how to punish it, which in that case they didn't at the time.

Also used samus a bit at RSB and here's one of the sets with her

Vs. Dru (Meta Knight)

 

myculz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 4, 2015
Messages
5
Hey there,

Not sure how active this thread is anymore, but if anyone has got any advice for me I finally got a couple games on stream I'm pretty proud of. I still think I have a lot of room to improve and maybe someone can point out some options I'm covering incorrectly or just things in general I could improve upon. As a side note I do have an issue dealing with captain falcon so any specific advice on that matchup would be nice as well. Thanks in advance!

edit
Also 2 more sets including winners finals where I lose to the falcon a few more times
 
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Tha_Shogun_12

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Falcon is a bad match up for Samus as alot of her ground attacks can be punished Oos with NAir and DAir and he can KO her faster than rest of cast etc. The way to win this match is safe pokes until you get an understanding of ur opponent before you hard read dsmash, dtilt, and fsmash. FTilt, ZAir, and Jab cancels are ur friend. Also throw falcon up on grabs as they lead to usmash, fair, and bairs. You have to punish his hard reads and you cannot flub edgeguarding as thats your only advantage.
 

Orion Prime

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Jun 22, 2014
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AL
myculz myculz
Here are some thoughts:
- vs Marth - Try to minimize the unnecessary jumping in neutral. Better marths will punish this very hard with WD-->Fsmash or SH Fair, both of which can lead to horrible things...Definitely try to stay grounded as much as possible against all the Fire Emblem characters really. Use your dash dance to bait out grabs or Fsmashes and punish. Zair is great for spacing and being annoying in this matchup. Be super decisive with your on ledge options - if you poke your head up for a split second against marth, all it takes is one Fsmash and you can get straight buttholed.
- vs Falcon - Like Shogun said, Uthrow is the go to throw against fast fallers, and Uthrow-->Usmash can work wonders against falcons w bad DI. Against CF, be patient but active with your movement - you know they are going to approach (w either a SH aerial or grab attempt), so use your dash dance, WD, and morph ball to to sort of fade back from the approaches. Against falcons i typically try to fade away and poke w Ftilt and just be a crouch cancel Dsmash tank. Once they are at percents where you are knocking them off stage, pursue hard and utilize the bomb gimp - pretty safe option to cheeze falcons out of a stock sometimes. Also, Nair is usually superior to upB OOS in this matchup bc falcon can get back to earth so much faster than you if you upB, and proceed to punish.
 

Tha_Shogun_12

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Did my first 3-0 samus run last week in loser's finals with Samus. Got some pretty nice combos in there too which is hard to do. I only got second at the tourney though but it's still some really nice stuff to use as Samus.

 

Tha_Shogun_12

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Camden, AR
My first Samus match Vs. ZSS. I always wanted to know how this matchup would play out and I got the chance to see. I only used Samus in the first match.

Vs. Hard Reid

 

Tha_Shogun_12

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After my mario got bippity bopped (I really feel that matchup is more in DDD's favor) I switched to Samus and got some matches in. I think I did good for going against one of the best DDD's, if not current best, DDD's in the nation.

 

Tha_Shogun_12

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Camden, AR
Another Tournament, More matches. Got 2nd, lost to Drinking Food's ROB (I really don't know how to fight that guy so if anybody have any tips on ROB stuff then shoot away i'm listening). Falcon, Yoshi, ROB, Wolf, Sheik, and GnW are my opponents with Samus.





 
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bubbaking

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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
Another Tournament, More matches. Got 2nd, lost to Drinking Food's ROB (I really don't know how to fight that guy so if anybody have any tips on ROB stuff then shoot away i'm listening).
I actually co-main both ROB and Samus. I generally beat Rubba Prime, one of the better ROBs in our Region, all the time with Samus, and I beat Minty's Samus with ROB both of the sets we've played. I personally think this MU is even-ish, but very, very annoying for Samus. She constantly has to be on-point with her recoveries and spacing and whatnot, because regaining a lead in this MU is a long and arduous process.

Always be on the look-out for ROB's instant air-dash. All of his aerials are minus on block, so if he goes deep on your shield, you should easily be able to escape and/or punish. Also, consider taking ROB's top when he puts it out too far from himself but close to you (you can simply air-dodge or waveland through it and you will pick it up). Samus has a very good item toss, and between zair (air-dodge + A so that you don't just drop the top), all of her specials, and crawl, she is actually pretty capable of holding her own while holding onto it. On top of that, ROB won't be able to spawn another top while you're holding it (similar to Diddy's banana). Alternatively, you can throw it up in the air to keep it in play, make it yours, and have access to all of your moves. However, when using it, keep in mind that ROB has a dashing reflector. Whenever I play ROB against people who grab my top, I generally reflect a lot more to approach and make life hard for my opponent. For that reason, I wouldn't throw it in neutral against a grounded ROB with some distance between us. The moment he jumps, though, you can stuff all his options because he doesn't have an aerial reflector.

Zair is godly in this MU. It goes through the top and stuffs ROB out of his air-dash. Pretty much the only thing it loses to is his laser. I think you should use that move a lot more.

Now this is up to your playstyle, but you may want to look into using ice mode, especially when ROB is at high %s. Dthrow > usmash will catch anything that's not good DI, which will still land him on plats at high %. Usmash also covers plat techs very well. Finally, usmash can stuff him out of his air-dash options if timed well. Fair is useful for edgeguarding since his boosts are linear. More useful for edgeguarding, however, are her ice missiles. Super ice missiles are faster than super fire missiles and homing ice missiles target ROB much better. Since his recovery is so linear, if he doesn't recover high, ice homing missiles can really make his life hell. Removing even just one boost from ROB severely limits his options.

1:31 - I wouldn't DA ROB until he's at high %'s, especially a CC-heavy one like DF. Both of these chars can easily CC dsmash the other for DAing below high %'s.

1:50 - Even though you are able to nair through the gyro, I definitely wouldn't have FFed it here. I don't know why DF didn't simply usmash you here, since it's a fairly easy reaction and it would have blown through your nair for a definite kill. Basically, trying to force your way on top of ROB at high %'s is always bad. Between usmash, utilt, and uair (nair too), he will always win and probably either get a combo or a kill for it.

1:59 - Not sure if you realized that you didn't have a DJ, but why didn't you just tether here? Ftr, ROB only has 3 aerial boosts. He burned one of them plus his DJ going after you and he got hit by a bomb. Burning more would have severely risked his own survivability, so he had to return. This is when it's time to FF air-dodge tether because he can't stop you. Even after missing that opportunity, you can still tether if ROB is just going for ledgehogs. It seems that you tried to catch ROB as he refreshed his invuln, but with tether, you would have simply stolen the ledge from him. From that angle, it is actually very awkward for ROB to do anything about it.

2:10 - Same deal here. ROB can't really stop you from tething (although he could punish the forced hop). That aside, I'm not sure why you didn't just go onstage with the upB and take your punishment.

2:41 - Just DI away here (both the throw and the uair). Holding in lets ROB chain more uairs. Going away will get you fair'd, but that's less damage and a much greater commitment for ROB.

2:48 - Personally, I think you should missile a lot less since DF seemed to be catching on to the fact that he could reflect them for a free approach. However, perhaps if you missile, you could immediately crawl afterwards to duck under the reflected missile?

3:09 - I believe you got hit by the top because you waited before ledgejumping, so you didn't have enough invuln. In this case, you should have just refreshed your invincibility since ROB was too far away to be a threat. After that, a ledgejump would have been fine, or you could have hax-dashed to grab the top and be back on the ledge with invuln once again.

3:27 - In this particular position, I think you should have drop-through naired. ROB's recovery options were pretty limited (they always are when he's coming in low), and almost all of them would have lost to that nair.

Unfortunately, I could only look at the first match. It's 5 AM as I type this, so I'm pretty tired, lolz. I hope this helped. I like watching your style of Samus. It's pretty aggro and 'gives no quarter'. :p
 
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Tha_Shogun_12

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394
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Camden, AR
I actually co-main both ROB and Samus. I generally beat Rubba Prime, one of the better ROBs in our Region, all the time with Samus, and I beat Minty's Samus with ROB both of the sets we've played. I personally think this MU is even-ish, but very, very annoying for Samus. She constantly has to be on-point with her recoveries and spacing and whatnot, because regaining a lead in this MU is a long and arduous process.

Always be on the look-out for ROB's instant air-dash. All of his aerials are minus on block, so if he goes deep on your shield, you should easily be able to escape and/or punish. Also, consider taking ROB's top when he puts it out too far from himself but close to you (you can simply air-dodge or waveland through it and you will pick it up). Samus has a very good item toss, and between zair (air-dodge + A so that you don't just drop the top), all of her specials, and crawl, she is actually pretty capable of holding her own while holding onto it. On top of that, ROB won't be able to spawn another top while you're holding it (similar to Diddy's banana). Alternatively, you can throw it up in the air to keep it in play, make it yours, and have access to all of your moves. However, when using it, keep in mind that ROB has a dashing reflector. Whenever I play ROB against people who grab my top, I generally reflect a lot more to approach and make life hard for my opponent. For that reason, I wouldn't throw it in neutral against a grounded ROB with some distance between us. The moment he jumps, though, you can stuff all his options because he doesn't have an aerial reflector.

Zair is godly in this MU. It goes through the top and stuffs ROB out of his air-dash. Pretty much the only thing it loses to is his laser. I think you should use that move a lot more.

Now this is up to your playstyle, but you may want to look into using ice mode, especially when ROB is at high %s. Dthrow > usmash will catch anything that's not good DI, which will still land him on plats at high %. Usmash also covers plat techs very well. Finally, usmash can stuff him out of his air-dash options if timed well. Fair is useful for edgeguarding since his boosts are linear. More useful for edgeguarding, however, are her ice missiles. Super ice missiles are faster than super fire missiles and homing ice missiles target ROB much better. Since his recovery is so linear, if he doesn't recover high, ice homing missiles can really make his life hell. Removing even just one boost from ROB severely limits his options.

1:31 - I wouldn't DA ROB until he's at high %'s, especially a CC-heavy one like DF. Both of these chars can easily CC dsmash the other for DAing below high %'s.

1:50 - Even though you are able to nair through the gyro, I definitely wouldn't have FFed it here. I don't know why DF didn't simply usmash you here, since it's a fairly easy reaction and it would have blown through your nair for a definite kill. Basically, trying to force your way on top of ROB at high %'s is always bad. Between usmash, utilt, and uair (nair too), he will always win and probably either get a combo or a kill for it.

1:59 - Not sure if you realized that you didn't have a DJ, but why didn't you just tether here? Ftr, ROB only has 3 aerial boosts. He burned one of them plus his DJ going after you and he got hit by a bomb. Burning more would have severely risked his own survivability, so he had to return. This is when it's time to FF air-dodge tether because he can't stop you. Even after missing that opportunity, you can still tether if ROB is just going for ledgehogs. It seems that you tried to catch ROB as he refreshed his invuln, but with tether, you would have simply stolen the ledge from him. From that angle, it is actually very awkward for ROB to do anything about it.

2:10 - Same deal here. ROB can't really stop you from tething (although he could punish the forced hop). That aside, I'm not sure why you didn't just go onstage with the upB and take your punishment.

2:41 - Just DI away here (both the throw and the uair). Holding in lets ROB chain more uairs. Going away will get you fair'd, but that's less damage and a much greater commitment for ROB.

2:48 - Personally, I think you should missile a lot less since DF seemed to be catching on to the fact that he could reflect them for a free approach. However, perhaps if you missile, you could immediately crawl afterwards to duck under the reflected missile?

3:09 - I believe you got hit by the top because you waited before ledgejumping, so you didn't have enough invuln. In this case, you should have just refreshed your invincibility since ROB was too far away to be a threat. After that, a ledgejump would have been fine, or you could have hax-dashed to grab the top and be back on the ledge with invuln once again.

3:27 - In this particular position, I think you should have drop-through naired. ROB's recovery options were pretty limited (they always are when he's coming in low), and almost all of them would have lost to that nair.

Unfortunately, I could only look at the first match. It's 5 AM as I type this, so I'm pretty tired, lolz. I hope this helped. I like watching your style of Samus. It's pretty aggro and 'gives no quarter'. :p

Thanks for the info. And yea by the final match I realized that ZAir is truly GODLY on ROB. I was thinking of opting for the Ice Mode but got really nervous as I was afraid of the punishes cause I didn't know all of what he could do. I found out ZAir can beat out his top and his Charged laser which really made the long range game seem simple. I didnt think to air dodge through and grab the top, I feel like an idiot not knowing that. Then again we dont have a ROB or a Diddy in our area.

Once again, thanks for the info!
 

Litt

Samus
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Thanks for the info. And yea by the final match I realized that ZAir is truly GODLY on ROB. I was thinking of opting for the Ice Mode but got really nervous as I was afraid of the punishes cause I didn't know all of what he could do. I found out ZAir can beat out his top and his Charged laser which really made the long range game seem simple. I didnt think to air dodge through and grab the top, I feel like an idiot not knowing that. Then again we dont have a ROB or a Diddy in our area.

Once again, thanks for the info!
Ice mode you want to be rolling back and forth in morph ball into airdodge back zair, so you can just as easily morph ball boost foward to clank with robs side b and he has a hella hard time approaching, or shield into up b OoS or nair OoS. When he does approach, retreating short hop ice fair does wonders and is hella safe
 
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bubbaking

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Mar 30, 2010
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Baldwin, NY, USA or Alexandria, VA, USA (Pick one)
pooch182 pooch182 , maybe you wanna change the title to 3.6? Not really important, ofc...

Anyway, I played Samus in the first game of my set against one of our best Falcons here. I know I've said on previous occasions how excellent Samus' crawl is, but I think I really showcased in this game how incredibly good it is against Falcon. There's really nothing he can do at close-range to deal with it, short of simply retreating or putting himself into a bad position.
I would appreciate any critique or constructive criticism anyone may have for me.
 

Chevy

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
736
Definitely agree that crawl is very good, but this Falcon wasn't really employing any counterplay either. Once Falcon starts approaching with d-air and mixing in raptor boost, it goes from great to just pretty good.

You looked pretty solid though, biggest flaw I saw was you losing both stocks to unsafe recovery options: bombing too close, and letting him grab ledge before you could tether. You could also tighten up those instant double jump missiles, maybe do the c-stick buffer thing to be frame perfect. Good stuff.
 

Tha_Shogun_12

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Apr 5, 2007
Messages
394
Location
Camden, AR
Went to another tournament saturday, got some more matches recorded with my Samus, one is one of DFW's Roy and the other is Lunchables Falcon/Tink. Watch, learn stuff, get ideas, and never chase a Tink who's on higher ground lol.

Vs. SS | Tr0y



Vs. FX DFW | Lunchables:

 

Tha_Shogun_12

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Apr 5, 2007
Messages
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Camden, AR
More matches, different characters, ideas yadda yadda. Gives a better idea what to do against Metaknight when he's playing the spacing game. I lost the set overall but the idea was implemented, just too many hard reads when sour.


Played Flashing Fire too this weekend, here's the set for that:



Played Frizz and all that. I really felt I could've won this match but I kept mashing out crouch cancels hoping his game would change but it didn't. Here's the link for that:

 
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