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Discovering the Chozo Artifacts: A 3.5 Samus Video Discussion

pooch182

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Hi there, and welcome to the Project M 3.5 video discussion thread or Samus! In this thread, you are free to post any footage you have of your Samus performing competitively in tournament. You are also free to watch other videos posted, and offer advice or opinions on how the player who posted said video can improve their gameplay. DO NOT post any videos of a test in training room showing off a new advanced tech, or anything of that nature. This thread is for analysis of competitive footage. The goal here is to work as a team to develop our meta game, and push ourselves to be the best players we can be. Separate threads for new advanced techs should be created and discussed elsewhere.

Please try to maintain a positive attitude in this thread. Healthy debate is allowed, and encouraged, but it is imperative to be respectful and appropriate. I don't want this thread to turn into something negative that doesn't provide for our sub-community.

I will compile a playlist of all the videos posted here, just to have a master playlist for ease of access. If I come across any specific footage that is exceptional, or a good tool for learning, or it is requested by multiple people, I will begin to compile a separate list of said footage, and list it below in this original post. I am also very open to having group analysis sessions on Skype, where we can all meet and discuss footage at the same time. This can cut down on creating too many unnecessary posts and keep this thread relatively clean and easy to navigate.
 

pooch182

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Friendly 1: You've got pretty bad DI on Marth's throws. Typically, I like to mix up between down-and-out, and up-and-out. It helps make it more difficult for the Marth to carry you as far with fairs. Also, you had a good exchange where you dropped a bomb and it led to a dsmash to dair to fsmash on your second stock. It was an excellent string, but you over committed to a nair that left you no safe options back to the stage, and Marth still had his double jump. It's bad to challenge like that, especially when it covers such few options.

The missile game needs to be tighter. Don't look at missiles as a means of hitting Marth. They're primarily a zoning tool. Try to get your missiles really low, because Marth's jab can get stuck in endlag after cutting a missile, and more often than not, you're going to force the Marth to jump for an approach. This match up is a battle between two ground-based characters, so whoever stays grounded the most typically has a better time. You can notice this in your constant over-extentions offstage that lead to a ledge hog to tipper dair on you for free. The stage is the key, maintain your stage control.

If you've ever watched a smart Marth ditto on like Dreamland or something, you'll notice that a huge part of the neutral game in the ditto is going for d-tilt pokes. It's a similar idea for Marth vs Samus. D-tilts are devastating, so be sure to angle your shield downwards if you're ever shielding to avoid the poke. It's kind of similar for Samus, but where Marth d-tilts, we like to f-tilt. F-tilt is godlike, it clanks with f-smash, and it's just a super good move for maintaining strong spacing outside of Marth's grab range (unless he grabs your foot during the f-tilt, but it doesn't happen often). Speaking of F-tilt, it's one of your best edge guarding options against Marth. A lot of people over estimate the hitbox of Marth's Dolphin Slash, but it's essentially a straight vertical hitbox, and it doesn't last long. Learn your spacing for a down angled f-tilt to sweep your foot just under the ledge, and then learn the timing for missing the sword but kicking Marth in the face. It's not too much knock-back, and can often be surprising to the Marth, so they rarely can DI up far enough to try for the ledge again. You can usually just hold ledge at that point, if they do go for an attempt.

You do something that I catch myself still doing. You worry about getting your charge shot ready while your opponent is off stage. If you know for a fact that they can't make it back, then you're fine. But worry about the edge guard first. You charged up, and then had to roll back to avoid getting hit by Dolphin Slash, letting Marth get to the ledge and, consequently, back to the stage. You can charge up after they die, you've got time. Taking a stock is more important, anyway.

Friendly 2: Dash attacking in the neutral is a no-no. That'll get you shield grabbed by a good Marth, and even if they don't grab you, they can still punish it. The same goes for grabbing, ESPECIALLY standing grabs. Samus dash grabs, because it's pretty much always the better option. But still, don't go for raw grabs. If you're tech chasing, then it's fine, but if both characters have all options available to them, it's pretty much your worst choice other than an empty full hop.

There were a few instances where you went up to punish Marth for being above you, which is good. Unfortunately, most of the time you decided to try for a nair to push him away from the stage. Nair is a pretty horizontal hitbox, it does a poor job of covering above and below Samus. And, it's not disjointed, so you lose to a sword every time. Up Air is your best option when chasing an opponent above you. It has disjoint and can set up for a fair which can rack up big damage, or if you're in ice mode, can set up a kill or an edge guard.

You're really keen on going out there to finish off Marth. Stop doing it. At around 22:45, you just run off to follow Marth down, and end up over committing and needing to Screw Attack to get back, effectively allowing Marth to make it back more easily. Just grab the damn ledge. It's not rocket science, but sometimes it can slip our minds. Grab. The. Ledge. That's all it takes a lot of times.

In both games, you burned your double jump a lot for seemingly no reason. This is one of the worst habits to have, as it's pretty difficult to get rid of. Especially for Samus mains, who traditionally are better off than most other characters off stage, even when they don't have a double jump. Burning your double jump means there's far less you can do to avoid your opponent while you're airborne. And, when you're airborne as Samus, it typically means you lost the neutral. Hold on to your jumps for dear life, and start searching for the right times to use it (avoiding a kill move, juking an opponent out when they try to over commit to an edge guard *hint hint*, etc). It takes a lot of mental practice, and you'll make bad decisions about using it for a while, until you get the proper experience to recognize when you need to jump and when you don't.

Last thing I'm gonna touch on is crouch canceling. It's godlike, right? In certain circumstances, yes. You got caught CCing at inopportune times, like while in range for tipper fsmash, which means you're just DIing down and still going off stage. You also got caught CCing near the ledge, which is pretty much the same result. Instead of stubbornly sitting in one place just challenging Marth to do something (bad idea, because he'll do something, and it'll usually work), you should focus on your movement game a lot more. Get familiar with perfect wavelanding, and dash dancing, and wave dancing, and just really try to make your movement game extremely smooth and fluid. Smash is a game focused around stage control and movement, and this is actually one of the best MUs in the game that demonstrates that notion perfectly, which is why it's one of my favorite MUs to play.
 

ES Lite

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vs Marth

Can I get a critique and/or any marth advice?

friendly 1

http://www.twitch.tv/gamersabbey/b/592826413

friendly 2 (19:45)

www.twitch.tv/gamersabbey/b/592837175
Never standing missile, always cancel it somehow. I've noticed that when you actually do missile cancel, you'll follow your missile and then shield when your close to Marth. Contrary to whatever your justification for that might be, that habit is useless. That would only really work against someone canceling your missile with super armor, in which you can shield that attack, but Marth doesn't have anything like that. Your best bet is following your missile and leading up with a grab.

You don't edge guard...like at all. The edge guard you're looking to use is a waveland off the stage drop zone nair, preferably with Samus facing the stage. If you don't like that, you can always opt to drop a bomb or two, or even dair. Those two particular edge guards aren't as safe/effective as drop zone nair against Marth however.

80% of the time, you'll shield when approaching, which is extremely predictable. I think your main problem is how you handle the neutral game with Samus. Focus on getting your missile game 100% consistent, and being able to have that consistency on platforms like on dreamland. Afterwards you can rely on being able to wavedash/waveland away while outputting a barrage of missiles, which is how your neutral game should be for the most part.

Make sure you never do a standing missile, also never do a standing missile.
 

Litt

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Never standing missile, always cancel it somehow. I've noticed that when you actually do missile cancel, you'll follow your missile and then shield when your close to Marth. Contrary to whatever your justification for that might be, that habit is useless. That would only really work against someone canceling your missile with super armor, in which you can shield that attack, but Marth doesn't have anything like that. Your best bet is following your missile and leading up with a grab.

You don't edge guard...like at all. The edge guard you're looking to use is a waveland off the stage drop zone nair, preferably with Samus facing the stage. If you don't like that, you can always opt to drop a bomb or two, or even dair. Those two particular edge guards aren't as safe/effective as drop zone nair against Marth however.

80% of the time, you'll shield when approaching, which is extremely predictable. I think your main problem is how you handle the neutral game with Samus. Focus on getting your missile game 100% consistent, and being able to have that consistency on platforms like on dreamland. Afterwards you can rely on being able to wavedash/waveland away while outputting a barrage of missiles, which is how your neutral game should be for the most part.

Make sure you never do a standing missile, also never do a standing missile.
Completely disagree, marth's neutral game is primarily on the ground and a standing missile gives up no jump or ground should marth be not close enough to punish, they are great on stages that dont have many plats and force a reaction out of marth, which you can understand for how he deals wiht missiles in general, wether avoiding, rolling, clashing, shielding or powershielding


Also note... missiles stop/clank with the majority of marth's move on their start up, so if marth tries to fsmash the missle and is stopped... you get a free ftilt to break neutral :p
 
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BillNyeTheSamusGuy

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I've noticed that when you actually do missile cancel, you'll follow your missile and then shield when your close to Marth. Contrary to whatever your justification for that might be, that habit is useless... Your best bet is following your missile and leading up with a grab.
missile... force a reaction out of marth, which you can understand for how he deals wiht missiles in general, wether avoiding, rolling, clashing, shielding or powershielding

the run up shield was trying to cover two things 1) he kept powershielding my missiles and 2)he kept rolling when missile hit his shield. Both of those options cover grab so I was kind of at a loss. Any advice on option coverage for those situations?
 
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pooch182

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Follow up with Zair. It's not as good as it used to be, but it'll tag him on the roll away, and it'll break a missile if he power shields. You'll be in the neutral, but you'll have slightly won the exchange.
 

ES Lite

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Completely disagree, marth's neutral game is primarily on the ground and a standing missile gives up no jump or ground should marth be not close enough to punish
Uhh...it makes sense on paper, but please don't ever standing missile, especially during neutral game. If you don't believe me, try it out for yourself; you'll be surprised at how fast people will react to that animation.

Also note... missiles stop/clank with the majority of marth's move on their start up, so if marth tries to fsmash the missle and is stopped... you get a free ftilt to break neutral :p
This however is super effective.

the run up shield was trying to cover two things 1) he kept powershielding my missiles and 2)he kept rolling when missile hit his shield. Both of those options cover grab so I was kind of at a loss. Any advice on option coverage for those situations?
1.) Power shield back. Sounds ridiculous but it literally neutralizes that problem and it isn't impossible. Plus you get a free shield frame, and that means you get to jump out of it.

2.) Roll dodging is for noobs. Punish him for being a noob. It's not that hard; downsmash is usually the safest prediction since it covers the front and back. Either that, or follow him with a wavedash -> jab. It's fast and gives you room to grab or smash out of it.
 

pooch182

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FkmnwA4fF_Q&list=UUqLYyPcx0tOY5MuOhLvKISw

Here's a set with ITALIAN N1NJA. Neither of us were playing all that well, and it's the first set we've played that didn't go to game 3. I've got a lot of johns for this set, mainly due to it being my first time playing 3.5, and having a bout of depression through that week. Either way, I feel like my neutral has become sharper when dealing with Link, although I've found that I'll nervously burn my double jump, which never ends well.

Am I missing out on some important piece of info that would help me with this match up. I go back and forth with N1NJA, and when I play Laz it's usually a 2-0, but I'll sometimes be able to squeeze out a game. It seems inherently difficult for Samus to deal with, so any help would always be appreciated.
 

Chevy

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Am I missing out on some important piece of info that would help me with this match up. I go back and forth with N1NJA, and when I play Laz it's usually a 2-0, but I'll sometimes be able to squeeze out a game. It seems inherently difficult for Samus to deal with, so any help would always be appreciated.
Z-air through his projectiles, shoot more missiles to keep the pressure on him at all times, and when you get close go crazy with shield pressure. Link's grab and up-B out-of-shield both come out fairly slow. You should be able to profit from jab-cancels and tilt and bomb pressure. Just make sure to jump whenever he tries to grab you out of shield. It seems like this Link loved to go for down and up-airs, which both have enormous endlag, bait them out and punish. He was also never ready to punish drift back on the forced reel-in, so start mixing that in to get away with tethering.
 
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SoulOfSmash

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What's up guys here's a few videos from my last tourney, some notes would be helpful especially against Sheik/Zelda. Against Ganon my biggest problem is I'm not used to the new timing on the Side-B tech but I'm starting to kill the old reflex and relearning the tech timing, also I do really stupid options off the ledge a lot against him. Anyway thanks for the future help guys!

 

SkyRW

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Question: I noticed in a lot of videos, samus' dash attack just doesn't seem to knock-back players well at all and puts samus in a really bad position to just get shield grabbed or nair'd (especially against characters like mewtwo, luigi, mario, link... well, that's where I noticed it at least >.>)
Is it best to just not use dash attack before a relatively high percent? It seems more like a punishable move in early % than helpful.
I was watching some games of ESAM and he didn't use it much... When he did, it was easily read and shielded, then quickly punished (that was in 3.02, but still...) It doesn't seem to have the effect it did in melee, so i'm wondering if it's best held back until later.
I feel like a much better option is zair. Even if it's readable, it feels less punishable and it's easier to follow up afterwards, especially before 70 - 80%

It's just me personally having trouble using it. Not sure if i'm missing something, which is entirely possible, considering i'm a newb :D or if it really just doesn't work under most circumstances.
 
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pooch182

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I have really clumsy fingers, so you'll see me wavedash back into a dash attack a lot. That's always a misinput for WD back into F-tilt.

Dash attack is an incredible move, just so long as you use it in the appropriate settings. I love to use it as a means of following up out of a properly DI'd throw or down tilt, and it works wonders as a means of threatening a low platform on FoD, as well as a tech chase option. Dash attack has piss poor shield stun, and it'll basically be a free punish for your opponent if it's shielded in the neutral game. Your safer option is forward tilt, which has a large hitbox, comes out quickly, and can maintain safe spacing in the neutral.

Zair has a time and a place, but not in a situation where it can be easily shielded. In 3.0, and in 3.5, Zair does essentially no shield stun, so if it's shielded, your opponent has the upper hand.
 

SkyRW

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Hmm.. makes sense. I suppose everything has a time and a place.

Ftilt is so good, but i also have the problem of just barely spacing it wrong or dash attacking on accident... that, of course, is just me being bad >.> i can barely manage anything in a tournament setting, so suffice is to say its still impressive you can perform that well, even with some mistakes.

I still feel like a poorly timed zair is better than a poorly timed dash attack, at least in the neutral game... though its better not to timr things poorly, lol.
Zair beats a powershielded missile, right?
(×.×)
 
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pooch182

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Zair does beat missile, which is why it makes for a decent follow up on a MC into an approach.
 

Chevy

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Just playing around with new counterpicks, I don't have any stages I like that matchup in, lol. I think Norfair is my best stage to fight him in that matchup after that set though. The platform layout does nothing for Marth's combo game, and helps me to escape/recover. I should've won the first game on Norfair, and it was going well until I screwed it up, so I went back. I like Smashville for similar reasons.
 

pooch182

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Personally, I feel like Norfair is just an awful stage for Samus. I think of it a bit like GHZ in the fact that we've got no platform to reliably escape to. Sure, it's bigger than GHZ, but against certain characters, it's just as bad as choosing FD.
 

Orion Prime

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I'm not a fan of Norfair competitively either...I like the stage and it'd be nice to have a good "home field" advantage level for Samus, but I'm too reliant on my missile game to get good use out of it. Though it did seem to work fairly well for Chevy.

Just to give credit where its due, @ pooch182 pooch182 , I read some of your posts ab mapping a certain button just for powershielding and that instantly made me way more consistent at it. I had a real tough time w the Mario match up (still do), but since I read that tip I can probly reflect 80% of fireballs now, instead of like 25% before. Appreciate the info.

And speaking of Mario, anyone know a good off edge option that will hit through his UpB? I may be wrong, but it seems to hit through nair at any point in the move. Ice fair may work, but I much prefer fire mode in the matchup. Maybe tipped bair? That would be pretty tricky timing though...
 

pooch182

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Uptilt is god. Also, you're welcome for the PS tidbit.
 
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Litt

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I'm not a fan of Norfair competitively either...I like the stage and it'd be nice to have a good "home field" advantage level for Samus, but I'm too reliant on my missile game to get good use out of it. Though it did seem to work fairly well for Chevy.

Just to give credit where its due, @ pooch182 pooch182 , I read some of your posts ab mapping a certain button just for powershielding and that instantly made me way more consistent at it. I had a real tough time w the Mario match up (still do), but since I read that tip I can probly reflect 80% of fireballs now, instead of like 25% before. Appreciate the info.

And speaking of Mario, anyone know a good off edge option that will hit through his UpB? I may be wrong, but it seems to hit through nair at any point in the move. Ice fair may work, but I much prefer fire mode in the matchup. Maybe tipped bair? That would be pretty tricky timing though...
low angled fire fsmash, lay bomb over ledge into up tilt, hold ledge --> use invins from ledge into nair = invins nair, dair, ordered in likelihood of successful kill
 

Litt

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What's up guys here's a few videos from my last tourney, some notes would be helpful especially against Sheik/Zelda. Against Ganon my biggest problem is I'm not used to the new timing on the Side-B tech but I'm starting to kill the old reflex and relearning the tech timing, also I do really stupid options off the ledge a lot against him. Anyway thanks for the future help guys!

The only one i bothered to watch was against squirt, and omg dude what can I say, lets start with the warm up of only practicing dairs on the ground on fd... then bombing... 5 times in what I can only assume were failed super wave dash attempts. TAKE THIS TIME AND USE IT WISELY... practice full hop double missiles, recoveries, ledge options, wave dashing, ect... dont say you dont need to practice them... because you got bopped. In your matches you dont... do this calling called... moving... at all, unless it is forward to actually attack your opponent... but even when you are approached, you dont think to reposition yourself and then toss out a move, instead... its button ****ing mash until your opponents is away from you for 1 of 2 reasons, A. it was because they got hit by one of your obvious or stupid attacks in the midst of your spam, or B. because you got knocked away from your obvious laggy defensive by just throwing out moves :/ Kid this is my advice for you, watch good people play, especially watch how they use and move in and out of their shield, and you will get drastically better. All i needed was 1 video to see how poor of control you have of samus, dont miss your up b sweet spots, dont constantly throw out moves, and go in with a game plan dude... and practice a ton before going back to a tournament because it will be a waste of time and money if you didnt even practice the basic hand eye coordination to perform the tech you want to play out in game.
 
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Orion Prime

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What's up guys here's a few videos from my last tourney, some notes would be helpful especially against Sheik/Zelda. Against Ganon my biggest problem is I'm not used to the new timing on the Side-B tech but I'm starting to kill the old reflex and relearning the tech timing, also I do really stupid options off the ledge a lot against him. Anyway thanks for the future help guys!


I watched the ganon vid since I have the most experience w that one. General advice first - I saw you wavedash once over the two games - the ganon taunt attacked, you didnt freak out (I know, its scary), and you WD'd into a ftilt and hit him out of it at the last moment. Therefore I know you can WD when under pressure, so use it more! I'm not saying to just spam it all the time, but get a feel for when WD'ing out in neutral to re-establish your spacing or WD'ing into the opponent to shield pressure or punish laggy moves is a better option than rolling etc. Its just a "feel" thing that you have to make a point of getting comfortable with.

Ganon specific now - I know this is a blanket statement so some players will obviously not react this way, but when constantly harassed at ftilt-zair range, most ganons will get frustrated and try to sideB or downB through all your junk to close the gap and get in close. Be prepared for this and be ready to spot dodge or WD away and punish accordingly. There were lots of opportunities to punish this behavior in your games that you flat out missed. You tried to SH dair him a couple times and missed, the timing on that option is a lot easier to mess up than simply WD'ing or spot dodging into fsmash/dsmash.
 
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Litt

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I watched the ganon vid since I have the most experience w that one. General advice first - I saw you wavedash once over the two games - the ganon taunt attacked, you didnt freak out (I know, its scary), and you WD'd into a ftilt and hit him out of it at the last moment. Therefore I know you can WD when under pressure, so use it more! I'm not saying to just spam it all the time, but get a feel for when WD'ing out in neutral to re-establish your spacing or WD'ing into the opponent to shield pressure or punish laggy moves is a better option than rolling etc. Its just a "feel" thing that you have to make a point of getting comfortable with.

Ganon specific now - I know this is a blanket statement so some players will obviously not react this way, but when constantly harassed at ftilt-zair range, most ganons will get frustrated and try to sideB or downB through all your junk to close the gap and get in close. Be prepared for this and be ready to spot dodge or WD away and punish accordingly. There were lots of opportunities to punish this behavior in your games that you flat out missed. You tried to SH dair him a couple times and missed, the timing on that option is a lot easier to mess up than simply WD'ing or spot dodging into fsmash/dsmash.
So basically you wasted the entire first paragraph saying exactly what I did... move more and space better...

onto your second paragraph... none of it useful towards the ganon MU besides ONE instance in which you observed an option or two in response to samus using a move... :/ thats not that helpful in the MU as a whole. Moving on your last bit of advice, dont dair instead WD or spot dodge into f/d smash... YEAH thats a great habit to pick up, spot dodge into fsmash... god :/

dont give advice if you are not at a level to do so yet
 

Orion Prime

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So basically you wasted the entire first paragraph saying exactly what I did... move more and space better...
Pretty much. Good advice can be reiterated, no?

onto your second paragraph... none of it useful towards the ganon MU besides ONE instance in which you observed an option or two in response to samus using a move... :/ thats not that helpful in the MU as a whole. Moving on your last bit of advice, dont dair instead WD or spot dodge into f/d smash... YEAH thats a great habit to pick up, spot dodge into fsmash... god :/

dont give advice if you are not at a level to do so yet
Obviously I'm not suggesting to randomly spot dodge and fsmash for any given situation, but if ganon's sideB is anticipated and you are capable of spot dodging it, why would fsmashing it afterwards be a bad option? I'm legitimately asking this, not being a smarta**.
 

pooch182

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Because it puts the idea into your head that spot dodging is the proper response to avoid a flame-choke, and it gets you killed more and more over time.

The idea of punishing with Fsmash after a whiffed flame choke isn't bad (although Ganon is easier to fight with ice mode), it's the means of reaching that transaction that you've suggested that isn't ideal. Spot dodging isn't really good at all against moves with so many active frames, and it's better to just space around the choke, or even hop over and FF dair into something.
 

Orion Prime

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Gotcha. Typically I try to bait out the sideB w the intent of WD'ing back and punishing the miss, but was just mentioning the spot dodge as an option if you're too close to WD out...should've been more clear or just have not said it. Apologies for misinforming anyone.

Would you mind elaborating why you think ice is better against ganon? And if you'd rather me move this over to the MU thread please let me know.
 

pooch182

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Ganon is a fatty, so fire can really put damage on, but he's a character that's built to win trades very hard, similar to Peach. Because of this, it's very difficult to try and follow up with combos, especially with that new neutral air which nobody thought was a bad idea, apparently.

The Ganon MU in my experience has been throwing a lot of stuff down range and then making a single exchange when finding an opening, and then returning to neutral. Arty has been a very difficult opponent for me, especially because he plays Samus in Melee, and I've found that just keeping him away with Zair and missiles until I can get him to a platform and then forward air him off stage is ideal. You corral him in with projectiles, and then hit him hard and edge guard.
 

Litt

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Eh, ganon loses pretty hard in neutral tbh, fire up close and personal is your best friend in that MU, and yes pooch you are right, spot dodging is almost never the answer, and if you do try to do that to ganon's side B, chances are you wont time it right... here is a better option, boost ball, jab, ftilt, up b, airdodge back into zair
 

pooch182

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If it's any consolation to my poor gameplay, a lot of times when I burned my DJ early was because it was accidentally buffered. I don't have the most graceful hands in the world, so I can accidentally buffer jumps and accidentally pivot grab quite often.

But yeah, you can kind of see how excited I was after game 1. That was actually my first time that I've been on the same side of bracket as Kelly, and the first time I've ever played him in a serious setting, so I was proud of how I did game 1. Game 2 was full of impatience and tech flubs because of that reason, so I need to really lock down on my emotional responses still.
 

Chevy

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
736
I'm fairly certain you can't buffer double jumps, or anything that's not shield or out of shield with the c-stick for that matter. But yeah, you did alright game one in a presumably hard match-up against a good player. I've definitely seen you play better though.
 
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pooch182

Smash Journeyman
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If you input a jump while in hitstun, you can absolutely buffer said jump. Also, I'm starting to hate the new end lag on ice fair more and more. It was such overkill lol.
 

Chevy

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 12, 2014
Messages
736
I have never heard that before, and I cannot reproduce it. You can buffer jump out of shield with c-stick up, but that's it. Ice f-air endlag was awful for me for awhile, but I'm beginning to adjust to it. It's not as bad as I thought, once you settle into the new IASA frames you'll get used to it. You can still full hop->fair->smash missile, so it's not too laggy.
 

Litt

Samus
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I'm fairly certain you can't buffer double jumps, or anything that's not shield or out of shield with the c-stick for that matter. But yeah, you did alright game one in a presumably hard match-up against a good player. I've definitely seen you play better though.
"buffering" in melee alot of the time really refers to inputs that rapid-fire (so you can just hold the input ahead of time and it will automatically get input at the first possible moment), rather than just being able to pre-fire an input and have it come out when possible.

some other examples of this (since people have already mentioned using the C-Stick for out-of-shield options):

shielding pretty much always "buffers", so if you're in the middle of an attack animation and just start holding R, it'll shield as soon as that attack's lag is over.

walking buffers out of IASA, so if you d-tilt with marth and just start holding left/right, you'll walk out of the d-tilt animation as soon as it's interruptible.
As for other things, you can sometimes buffer double jumps out of hitstun.

#MeleeGameKnowledge
 

pooch182

Smash Journeyman
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In response to Naggy, my missile game isn't very strong in regard to consistent missile canceling and varying my types of missiles. It's the weakest part of my neutral game, but I enjoy my style a lot, and I've been learning more about the application of homing missiles in given scenarios.
 
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