Discord Info Dump + Discord Links

[Pixel_]

If you guys haven't already, join Discord!
What is Discord, you may ask? It's a program that's somewhat similar to Skype, and you can learn more over at their website: https://discordapp.com/

So, why do we care about it? Because it practically replaced Smashboards, and that's why it's been so inactive here.
First of all, there's smashcords, which is a group of Discord servers dedicated to Smash, including a server for each character. Second, Discord is a lot more accessible (it has an app and everything unlike Smashboards afaik), and I also have a feeling that people just don't like forums anymore ().

If you want to join the Yoshi Discord servers, here's the ones I know about:

• Smashcords server (Yoshi's Woolly World): https://discord.gg/WNN8ttM
• Slush's server (King Yoshi's Sanctuary, aka KYS): https://discordapp.com/invite/0i9JOJ7J8iBa5eHX

Anyway, on to the main point of this thread: to compile information from the Discord server.
"If you just finished talking about how great Discord is, then why would you need to make this thread?", you may ask. Well, I'm still convinced that Smashboards is still necessary for compiling information, because:

• Information on Smashboards is easily accessible (you can come across it eventually from Google searches, unlike Google Docs documents, which you can only find through links)
• You don't need an account to see posts on Smashboards, unlike Discord
• Discord posts are often buried, and though pins can mitigate this problem, they can be disorganized (yes, resource channels are helpful, but they don't usually include helpful posts from other channels, and some of the posts there can end up buried too)

Of course, that doesn't mean Smashboards is better than Discord at all -- Discord is WAY more active than Smashboards. If you ask a question on Smashboards, you might get an answer after a day or two (and there's also those questions that are never answered, too), but you'll usually get an answer from Discord within the hour you ask it.

So yeah, enough talking, here's a bunch of info from the Yoshi server:
(note that most of this info doesn't belong to me, but I listed the person who said/posted it)
(anything in brackets are either notes by me or are edits to otherwise directly-quoted text)

TIPS (not color coded, it just looks better than a giant wall of text)

• "GRAB RELEASE IS NOT THE BEST OPTION
  Down throw can set up for a true combo into up air or an airdodge read for some other moves, like up tilt and up smash, depending on the percent." - Bubby
  "Forward Throw / Back Throw / Up Throw can also lead to tech chase situations on platform stages or just flat out true combos, meaning there is never a situation in which you should not throw."
  "Plus even if you miss a combo or something you still have decent positioning. Whereas with a grab release you are right where your opponent can hit you." - Bubby
  "just use throws to get people into a bad spot and then read air dodges, most stuff we have is not true combo"
• "People need to understand to stick to what works and don't change it
  A lot of people will be great at piling on damage using jab, nair, grabs and neutral b
  But once they get them to 100+ damage they start switching up their style and fishing for bull****
  If you're landing the stuff that applies damage, stick with it and you'll kill them with it usually
  Only change your strategy if what you're doing is not working at all"
• "Some things to work on if you don't already have them mastered
  Fair - Up air off the top at kill percents
  Off stage nair repeated edge guards
  Egg to fair edge guard true combos for people holding ledge
  Neutral b egg lay into follow ups, mixing it up
  and Jab to Up smash true combo kill confirm"
• "PLAY AS YOSHI! This sounds stupid, but hear me out. Many times I look in here and see someone complain about a matchup, but it turns out that the person is really complaining about a matchup that they use a secondary in. You wanna be a Yoshi main? Cool. Play as him in all matchups. Even the bad ones. You might discover that they're actually not all that bad in the end." - Bubby
• "DON'T PLAY AUTOPILOT! If something's not working, think of something else to do instead. It keeps your opponent on their feet, which is EXACTLY what you want. Continuing to do your **** strategy is just gonna beat you up more. At the same time, don't constantly abuse a strategy that is working. Eventually your opponent is gonna figure it out and you're gonna get punished hard. Think of new stuff while you're ahead and apply it when they aren't expecting it. This is the key to being a Yoshi main. You have the ability to switch playstyles on the fly. Use THAT to your advantage instead of grab release you friccin' morons." - Bubby
• "YOU AREN'T A COMBO VIDEO CHARACTER! Quit trying to 0-death people when you shouldn't be. 99.999999999999% of the time that's not gonna work. I'm guilty of this sometimes, but at least I'm only doing it on a player/character I KNOW I can **** on. At best all you should be getting is around 1-2 hits and then either read situation or neutral happens." - Bubby
  "Stop treating Yoshi like he's Mario or Bayo with long combo strings. That's another thing I see many Yoshis do. We extend our combos by reading our opponents habits. Genuinly we're a 1-2 reset kind of character." - Valty
• "Watch lots of competitive matches. They don't even have to feature Yoshi, just watch high calliber players go head to head. Watch what they do. Try to understand what they're thinking and add that to your gameplay." - Valty
• "SPACING IS IMPORTANT Guys, remember that you put yourself in a good position if you can pressure safely. Learn to space properly. That means, don't jump into their shield with nair, rather use fair at max distance and fade back to prevent being punished. Some MUs we win from pure spacing alone because we can outrange them (Mario MU is one that comes to mind). Marth or Shulk will help you learn the value of spacing so consider giving those characters a try." - Valty
• "I feel like this is worth noting too: Play risk reward If you're playing "Medium risk medium reward" you're not going to go far. Notice how a lot of top players go for the risk reward when the opportunity calls for it? If you're not pushing for the high reward you're not pushing for a high placing." - Valty
• "Daily tip from yours truly: If a Diddy has a banana on the ground and is standing near it to bait you, fast falling down air will auto cancel and give you the advantage."
  (https://gfycat.com/TinyHarshDegus)
• "The biggest and best ways I think about getting kills, at least what I do
  Look at their percents, and your rage
  Basically if you're anywhere at max rage, and they're in the 50-60 % range
  Start fishing for ways to knock them off stage
  That could be jab - nair, jab - down smash on fast fallers, etc
  And then go for the off stage edge guard, but you gotta be tricky about it
  If you don't have much or are at medium rage
  I like to try to get my opponents into the 70-90 range
  and start doing lots of grabs, throws to platforms or down throw - up air stuff
  Your eventual end goal as Yoshi is to make people scared enough to press air dodge
  That's really it
  Provided you can get them to do that, it should be a simple task of going for the air dodge read, and they're dead
  That gif I posted earlier was a double air dodge read, since he dodged into the platform, AND after the nair
  which I delayed the fair to hit
  The one where i edge guarded him on flat zone with the egg
  was another air dodge read, into my nair
  etc
  a LOT of my kills are purely from people pressing R"
• "You do need to be aggressive on people and not let them overpower us in the neutral
  But that doesn't mean you need to constantly dash at them like a bull seeing red
  A lot of the cast has projectiles, take your time
  avoid unnecessary damage
  The only ones you truly need to chase down are the ones who are faster than us that also want to be far away
  Sonic comes to mind"
• "The main fact is you should very very VERY rarely use down b
  It's stupidly slow, reactable, and highly punishable
  Using safe moves is how you win
  Lots of walking, shielding, jabbing, nairs"
• "The thing with walking, you can pretty much respond into anything else really quickly.
  So you can just walk and see what your opponent will do and respond better than if you were just running." - Gameboy34
• "It's amazing how people don't do it
  You got 6 minutes, most Yoshi matches in 2 stock probably last 2-3
  You can slow **** down as much as you want and walk the entire match
  PLENTY of time"
• "a lot of yoshi's tools have very polarizing pros and cons, meaning that they're easily exploited when read but the yoshi player can still make it work if they stay ahead in the mental game
  that also applies to our responses to shield
  our dash grab is really good until it whiffs and we eat a half-charged smash attack, fair applies good pressure until it trades from halfway across the stage, etc.
  I've always felt that yoshi does best in the hands of a read-based player and his neutral and its flaws exemplify that" - Queen of Mischief / Huggles
• "fair / jab / up tilt / grab [and nair]
  You should basically only be using those moves in neutral... ever
  Those are your test moves
  Treat Yoshi as if he's Fox
  When you see a fox player
  They do up tilt
  Wait to see an air dodge, then up tilt again if you try to land near them
  We do the same [thing]
  If they land behind you, turn around jab
  If they're trying to run away and projectile spam and play keep away
  You space fairs on them to be safe and grab items"
• "It's very simple
  Your "test" is to toss eggs
  Let the opponent run towards you in neutral
  And here's where you "think"
  When they approached you on the ground, what was their immediate first action?
  If it's shield, just keep note of it
  Do a rising aerial, like instant DJ nair
  float away, reset
  And let them approach you again
  If they shield again?
  Now you know their go-to option is to run up shield, hope you hit [it], and then punish you
  So they run up and you just neutral b as they're running towards you"
• "People also don't use eggs to catch landings
  Free damage if the opponent is trying to land away from you on stage
  I'll just toss a fast egg horizontal, they'll air dodge into the ground and subsequently into it
  Do it on tri-plat stages as well
  Lob egg onto the platforms
  The complete vertical egg is a bad situation
  regardless if they get the grab, smart players will use throw armor to negate the egg
  Or they end up getting pummel + grab release damage, you get the egg, and you're in an even situation
  So it's almost never a net positive"
• Don't use grounded egg toss -- it has a ton of endlag, doesn't lead into much, and leaves you on the ground in one place. There's better options.

INFO

• JAB FOLLOWUP INFO
  "People seem to forget that jab can lead to everything
  yet I see a lot of Yoshi's when opponents get to high percent they stop jabbing
  Jab Nair - Up Air - Down B - F Smash - Up Smash - Down Smash all can kill
  And depending on the character you can land some variation of any of the above
  As a true combo"
  "Fast fallers = Down B, Up Smash (higher percents), Down Smash (medium percents), Nair (higher percents), F smash (at ledge or edge of stage only)
  Floaties = Up smash (medium percents), Nair (higher percents), Up air (Medium-High Percent), Down Smash (Low-Medium percent),
  And then there's everything in between"
  "Jab - Down B is specific to fast fallers, requires you to have some sliding momentum (so right after landing towards the opponent)
  Get the jab hit box that is closest to your body which sends mostly away
  and then hit down b right as you see their feet touch ground
  You don't necessarily have to have sliding momentum but that helps it work through kill percents"
  
  
• "Just an additional note: Yoshi cannot be shield poked, his smaller shield makes it harder to perfect shield (as noted by Muddykips) and in smash 4 he cannot shield drop [through] platforms. These are the only differences our shield has from the shields of other characters. There are a lot of rumors that circulate about Yoshi's shield, they are not true. He doesn't have extra shield health, his shield doesn't come out late, he doesn't have more/less shield drop or shield stun frames, etc. " - Queen of Mischief / Huggles

Yoshi Kill percents for all smash attacks (compiled by LucatsoKing):

• Fsmash (angleable)
  • Tipper:
    • Up: 133% (13%), 90% (18%)
    • Default: 133% (13%), 90% (18%)
    • Down: 133% (13%), 90% (18%)
  • Sweetspot (nose):
    • Up: 108% (15%), 70% (21%)
    • Default: 108% (15%), 70% (21%)
    • Down: 108% (15%), 70% (21%)
  • Sourspot (body):
    • Up: 122% (14%), 82% (19%)
    • Default: 122% (14%), 82% (19%)
    • Down: 122% (14%), 82% (19%)
• Usmash
  • Clean: 119% (14%), 79% (19%)
  • Late: 140% (12%), 96% (16%)
• Dsmash
  • Sweetspot (body):
    • Front: 173% (12%), 121% (16%)
    • Back: 153% (12%), 106% (16%)
  • Sourspot (tail tip):
    • Front: 268% (10%), 195% (14%)
    • Back: 196% (10%), 141% (14%)

"DOWN THROW - UP AIR TRUE COMBO INFORMATION - DI in is Green, and thereby the easiest angle to confirm up air on. Yellow is no DI, an 80 degree bounce. Red is perfect away DI, a 70 degree bounce and the hardest to confirm on. This works on most characters in the game that you will be facing around the 95 - 130 percent range, depending of course on weight class and fall speed. Extremely Light AND Floaty characters such as Peach / Rosalina this becomes near impossible even if they DI just a little to get the kill confirm. Characters like Cloud / Diddy / Fox this is a very simple confirm to take stocks with."

RESOURCES

Videos:

Spoiler

Most Yoshi videos are now compiled into this playlist:

Playlist of high level Yoshi gameplay (compiled by Marteen):

"Not Yoshi specific but I don't think any Yoshi's gonna complain about more info for fighting Cloud" - Cat8752

Documents:

Spoiler

Yoshi document compilation:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rhTFAG__Xxw2HjPKSS8pwwVYw8V1ZbO9jVivQH88GAU/edit

Yoshi FAQ (credit to several people, which are listed in the doc):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IRewZwpKgypG7JSfwNwELCt7dtNYzijaPbfS1aoJf4U/edit?usp=sharing

Yoshi 2 move combo list (credit to SentenzaSmash and v23):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1T5r_I-r2GOJGIjnHuk0x1vwkrr8vbCveM_w-9U1csyo/edit#gid=0

Yoshi tech chase starters (credit to v23): https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RhcBGr9MNRKq69zyZKNbdWYxWZK8ZB7Q53CdXyLbs7U/edit#gid=0

More assorted notes that are mostly Yoshi-related (very helpful tips here!):
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1viOaZrHDhSR-IElGiB-RIwqpXqo2lW3h_yICGumPFr8/edit

This Twitter account holds several Yoshi resources:
https://twitter.com/Yo****echSquad

***IMPORTANT***
We're also working on an info dump, which will hopefully be formatted at some point as an actual Yoshi guide: https://docs.google.com/document/d/11TOajmZ6LTQcrczOKnKFHAAR3pGdUYsMFHoaUFzA7ho/edit#
This doc is important because it'll include a lot of info from the Discord conversations; it's being updated a lot more often than this thread is.
Feel free to add your own info to it, but if you vandalize it I will personally jab usmash you irl

 

[Pixel_]

Just remembered that I'm terrible at formatting things properly. Any way I could get help with that?

 

[Sinister Slush]

By formatting you mean linking stuff right or just need help on how smashboards [ spoiler ] [ url= ] stuff right?
Be sure to also check the pinned posts for both servers cause they might have more stuff to link. My server has most of the important SB links in resources if you wanna link em all.

Although what this discord thread would turn into is a thread directory which at that point would might as well be a new thread.

 

[Pixel_]

By formatting you mean linking stuff right or just need help on how smashboards [ spoiler ] [ url= ] stuff right?
Be sure to also check the pinned posts for both servers cause they might have more stuff to link. My server has most of the important SB links in resources if you wanna link em all.

Although what this discord thread would turn into is a thread directory which at that point would might as well be a new thread.

Well, the point of this thread is to relay information from Discord that you can't access on Smashboards, and while that might make this end up as mostly a thread directory, I also want to include helpful tips that were mentioned (grab release being a good example, I don't think it was emphasized enough at all here).

As for what I mean about formatting, I called the thread an info dump, but it looks like a literal dump. It's messy and really hard to look through, and I want to fix that somehow. I guess I can start by sorting everything into sections (videos in one section, general tips in another, etc.), and also by copying down the quotes into text rather than screenshots.

I'll make sure to check out your Discord by the way, not sure why I didn't do that in the first place.

 

[bubbyrules1]

I would recommend changing "shield drop on platforms" to "shield drop *through* platforms," just to avoid potential confusion.

Otherwise, solid work!