Social Disciples of Dark Samus

[Aetheri]

I like Dark Samus a lot in this game. It feels like she's finally getting back to her Melee days. I play her as an offensive powerhouse and it works well.

How many Dark Samus / Samus mains are in Elite here? I haven't fought a single one yet but that seems strange to me. I think a lot of people are underestimating the character.

If played well the Samuses can be quite deadly. I've had a fair amount of success with Dark Samus online and have access to Elite Smash with her. Although she's not my number 1 character she is one of my second most played characters in the game.

 

[ChronoBound]

So is anyone else largely unimpressed by Dark Samus and Ridley in Ultimate? I've put some time into both characters and neither seem as good as I expected. Needless to say it's too early to form any conclusions, but for first impressions... not great.

I personally really enjoy both characters. Ridley is really fun, and Dark Samus really surprised me in a good way (more on that later). Both are the newcomers I am playing the most in Ultimate. I also give the Belmonts quite a bit of play time.

Not sure if this detail was pointed out before (don't think it was), but wow, seeing Metroid Prime's eyes behind the visor is a perfect touch.

YEP, can confirm now that I see it in the default palette: this Dark Samus winpose does give you a glimpse of her eyes, that rules pic.twitter.com/MO5LzxQjau

— Klim @ HD Doopliss REAL (@FreakInASheet) December 11, 2018

I really love small touches like that. The only "small touch" she is missing is her laugh. It would have been the single most salt-inducing taunt in the whole game.

So, here's an official image from within the game.

View attachment 183429

Stuff like this is particularly amusing with "dark and serious" characters. I know I certainly smiled when I had Ridley with a bunny hood swinging a hammer.

Just gonna throw out there how happy it makes me that most people who aren't familiar with Dark Samus do seem to recognize that she isn't just an edgy version of Samus. I have of course seen some "Zero Suit Dark Samus" stuff floating around, but to counter all that nonsense have been great jokes on what she actually looks like under her suit (the fact that it's actually her skin being the common punchline). I recently saw one of those roster organizer memes, this one weirdly sorting them by number and type of eyeballs- and sure enough, Dark Samus was down in the "3" category with just Bayonetta for company. And there have been countless comics and tweets illustrating the differences between her and Dark Pit, mostly consisting of Dark Pit being edgy and Dark Samus simply spitting out guttural shrieking noises in response.
It's nice that despite having no significant differences from Samus as far as Smash fighting goes, her aesthetics are so well done that outsiders realize how different Dark Samus is as a character. Possibly even enough to spark interest in playing the games- like me when I started playing as that cool-looking "Samus" person I'd only vaguely heard of before, back in the Brawl days.

As someone who usually never touched Samus unless the Random button set me to her, I never expected to like playing as Dark Samus this much. Her (It's?) kit just feels really nice to me, and being able to charge the Charge Shot in mid-air alleviates one of the main problems I had playing as Samus in previous Smash games. Now I can play more flexibly alternating between the Charge Shot, missiles, and the rest of her moves. And let's not forget just how cool Dark Samus is. Her animations, her colors, even her Charge Shot just reeks of badassery. Her victory pose where you can see the eyes behind the suit is easily one of the best in the game, and it just makes me want to play as Dark Samus more and more. Right now she's just a secondary but I honestly could see Dark Samus becoming one of my mains with how much I've been enjoying her. And to think that in the last game she was just some Assist Trophy to me...

I really need to adapt my mindset when playing Dark Samus. Everything I play (pretty much only Inkling and Poké Trainer in this game), I play with a rushdown, very aggressive playstyle, but with Dark Samus it just doesn't seem to work. I really want to play her thought because she is the coolest boss in the whole Metroid series to me. She oozes "badass".

These comments touch on something that I really felt with Dark Samus. Samus has been my number one most played character for every single Smash Bros. installment going back to the first installment for the Nintendo 64. I was not expecting to pick up Dark Samus since there was really no need to. However, the character is just really cool to see in motion. The runs/walks, jumps, and dodges all give this character a "personality" distinct from Samus. I even love how her body jerks around when you take her an abrupt stop after making her run. Dark Samus alongside Richter is my personal favorite echo in the game, and the one of the characters that right now gets the most play time from me in Ultimate (I think I am even playing her more than Samus).

I never asked for Dark Samus in Smash Bros., but this character ended up being a pleasant surprise for me. Metroid feels truly complete with her presence on the roster. Dark Samus's animations really made the character for me. Sure I wish she got some gameplay differences like Ken and Chrom did, but she ironically seems more like a different character than the other echoes just due to what was done with her animations (she has the most unique animations of any echo aside from possibly Ken).

I never expected to play as her as much as I am.

 

[meleebrawler]

I just noticed something weird: when you fire a (Super) Missile as Dark Samus while holding an item, it floats in the air for a bit, not unlike how Mewtwo usually holds them. Didn't know she had telekinesis as one of her powers... but maybe the link and control she exerts over those she corrupts was of a psychic nature?

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

I was so set on maining , seeing as she was the only one of my top 5 wanted characters to make the base roster, but the potential of her being low tier is terrifying. Maining a low tier is not a road I'd like to go down again. There's also the fact that some of the other characters I've looked at are interesting as well:
- My Smash 4 main. A safe bet, as I'll at least use him as a secondary even if I don't main him again.
- If he's less reliant on aura at earlier percents, which was a problem I had with him in 4, I'll consider maining him.
- I'll consider him if he's not a mindless ladder machine like in 4, or just overall busted like in Brawl.
- Inconsistent with him (had that issue when I was thinking about maining in 4). Not sure if that's a me thing, or a Ridley thing. Also a heavy, oof.
- Pocket in 4, haven't put too much time into her, but def worth considering from what I've seen.

Doesn't help that I like each of these characters and their playstyles. Not sure what to do in this situation, as it took me well over a year to figure a similar thing out in Smash 4. Curse my indecisiveness!
I suppose I at least cut it down to a top 6, making it a bit easier to manage, so that's something. That, and compared to Smash 4, as well as Blazblue, I know moreso what I'm looking for with a main.

Spoiler: Characters dropped & my reasonings for those curious

- Heavyweight
// - Don't feel quite right compared to past iterations
/ - Extremely inconsistent results
/ - Don't like their recovery
/ - Playstyle feels too campy
// - Combos seem overly complex for my liking
- Not a fan of puppet characters

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Yet another small thing Dark Samus has over vanilla.

Pichu can crouch underneath Samus tiny CS but not underneath Dark Samus tiny CS.#SSBU_SAM #SSBU_SAMUS #SSBU_DSM #SSBU_DSAMUS pic.twitter.com/BIG8LUudx1

— KayJay (@KayJay_EU) December 30, 2018

 

[meleebrawler]

Yet another small thing Dark Samus has over vanilla.

Pichu can crouch underneath Samus tiny CS but not underneath Dark Samus tiny CS.#SSBU_SAM #SSBU_SAMUS #SSBU_DSM #SSBU_DSAMUS pic.twitter.com/BIG8LUudx1

— KayJay (@KayJay_EU) December 30, 2018

Seems to be a trend of Dark Samus hitting lower, also present on usmash. However, I notice that while usmash can hit people standing next to Dark Samus more easily, it's also less consistent at hitting through Battlefield platforms.

 

[Diem]

I just noticed something weird: when you fire a (Super) Missile as Dark Samus while holding an item, it floats in the air for a bit, not unlike how Mewtwo usually holds them. Didn't know she had telekinesis as one of her powers... but maybe the link and control she exerts over those she corrupts was of a psychic nature?

Might just be an animation bug, I'll have to see for myself. But it wouldn't be out of the question. If she can levitate herself, I don't see why she can't levitate certain objects. In her battle in Metroid Prime 3, she can bring down big shards of Phazon crystals as obstacles in the arena, but that might just be because they're Phazon.

I was so set on maining , seeing as she was the only one of my top 5 wanted characters to make the base roster, but the potential of her being low tier is terrifying. Maining a low tier is not a road I'd like to go down again. There's also the fact that some of the other characters I've looked at are interesting as well:
- My Smash 4 main. A safe bet, as I'll at least use him as a secondary even if I don't main him again.
- If he's less reliant on aura at earlier percents, which was a problem I had with him in 4, I'll consider maining him.
- I'll consider him if he's not a mindless ladder machine like in 4, or just overall busted like in Brawl.
- Inconsistent with him (had that issue when I was thinking about maining in 4). Not sure if that's a me thing, or a Ridley thing. Also a heavy, oof.
- Pocket in 4, haven't put too much time into her, but def worth considering from what I've seen.

Doesn't help that I like each of these characters and their playstyles. Not sure what to do in this situation, as it took me well over a year to figure a similar thing out in Smash 4. Curse my indecisiveness!
I suppose I at least cut it down to a top 6, making it a bit easier to manage, so that's something. That, and compared to Smash 4, as well as Blazblue, I know moreso what I'm looking for with a main.

Spoiler: Characters dropped & my reasonings for those curious

- Heavyweight
// - Don't feel quite right compared to past iterations
/ - Extremely inconsistent results
/ - Don't like their recovery
/ - Playstyle feels too campy
// - Combos seem overly complex for my liking
- Not a fan of puppet characters

I'm not worried about Samus/Dark Samus's tier status. It seems to me that the doom and gloom of many pro players might have been overstated, and people are discovering that the two are a bit more powerful than people anticipated. Doesn't mean much if they're still overall weaker than other characters, but I don't think they're as trash as pros proclaimed. A lot of that was in lamentation that the dash attack was changed to not be a combo starter, but it's still useful, and there's other combos that people are discovering. It'll be a few more months before we know for sure where things stand.

On top of that, even if Samus/Dark Samus are in poor standing now, that won't last forever, I'm sure. Samus wasn't good in Smash 4 for a year and a half before they gave her a round of buffs in 1.1.5, making her substantially better. I'm sure there will be more buffs going forwards in Ultimate, especially with Elite Battles giving the balancing team some real-world data on how the characters are performing against one another, based on the top online players.

Also, looking at your mains in Smash 4, I can understand why you might have trouble with Dark Samus. My brother mained Mewtwo in Smash 4 as well, and he was really looking forward to picking up Simon, but when the game actually came out, he struggled to really use him, because the two characters are so majorly different. Simon is so much more technical than Mewtwo, and his other characters in Smash 4 were Pikachu and Mario. All very straightforward characters.

Meanwhile, I've mained R.O.B. since Brawl, seconded Toon Link in Brawl, and then my characters in Smash 4 were R.O.B., King Dedede, Samus, and Mega Man. All characters who are technical to some degree, definitely much more than Mario and Pikachu. So when I went on to main Dark Samus, it was just adjusting from Samus in Smash 4. And I picked up Richter faster than my brother picked up Simon, because I was used to projectile play when he wasn't.

Now my brother's trying to main Snake for some reason, and his normal attacks are powerful and straightforward, but my brother definitely hasn't figured out how to take advantage of his projectiles. Given just a little practice, I could probably play Snake better than him, if not already. Before that, he tried Young Link, and was pretty good at projectile pressure, but struggled to actually get KO's.

He's been getting pretty salty about his results in Ultimate. I've won way more matches than he has, because he doesn't like how Mewtwo plays in this game for some reason, and hasn't had much success with other characters. Meanwhile, Dark Samus fit like a glove, Ridley is very straightforward (relatively speaking), and my other characters are just as good now as they've always, been, if not better.

In contrast, I tried playing Captain Falcon a bit in Smash 4, but had trouble, because he's really fast, aggressive, and combo-oriented, unlike any other character I play. He requires a lot of practice, because to do well with him means you have to move very quickly, but also very precisely. That kind of playing is very unlike the slower, more zoning characters I'm used to.

The point is, you're probably not used to projectile-based characters, and that may be why you're struggling. It'd take some time to get used to adjusting to that playstyle. Especially if you're playing at a higher level; a lot of the tech people are using to make Samus/Dark Samus really dangerous is crazy. I haven't even begun to scratch the surface of unlocking Dark Samus's full potential, because I've never played like this. Morph Ball Bombs are apparently one of her best tools, but I still don't know how to use them. Here's some of the crazy stuff people are using:

Classic instant tether into b-air#SSBU_SAM #SSBU_SAMUS #SSBU_DSM #SSBU_DSAMUS pic.twitter.com/NgqBzmOiB5

— KayJay (@KayJay_EU) December 28, 2018

Tiny CS > Pivotslide down-angled F-Tilt kills at the same % as Tiny CS > DA and is less risky.#SSBU_SAM #SSBU_SAMUS #SSBU_DSM #SSBU_DSAMUS pic.twitter.com/w8A315YYcw

— KayJay (@KayJay_EU) December 13, 2018

Optimal punish
OoS SH FF D-Air > FJ B-Reverse CS (You can OoS jump faster than the clip shows)#SSBU_SAM #SSBU_SAMUS #SSBU_DSM #SSBU_DSAMUS pic.twitter.com/XNfGl4z4Mt

— KayJay (@KayJay_EU) December 13, 2018

I'm nowhere near figuring any of that stuff out. I'm just waiting for people to make guides to help me take advantage of these techniques, since I don't understand them right now. But they show that Samus/DS can do some crazy and dangerous things that no one accounted for prior to release, and once players are able to figure it all out and apply it to its fullest potential, Samus/DS will be a much trickier character to deal with than many people are expecting.

Ultimately, just do whatever is fun for you. Don't feel pressured to play specific characters if you aren't having fun.

 

[Downshift]

I was so set on maining , seeing as she was the only one of my top 5 wanted characters to make the base roster, but the potential of her being low tier is terrifying. Maining a low tier is not a road I'd like to go down again. There's also the fact that some of the other characters I've looked at are interesting as well:
- My Smash 4 main. A safe bet, as I'll at least use him as a secondary even if I don't main him again.
- If he's less reliant on aura at earlier percents, which was a problem I had with him in 4, I'll consider maining him.
- I'll consider him if he's not a mindless ladder machine like in 4, or just overall busted like in Brawl.
- Inconsistent with him (had that issue when I was thinking about maining in 4). Not sure if that's a me thing, or a Ridley thing. Also a heavy, oof.
- Pocket in 4, haven't put too much time into her, but def worth considering from what I've seen.

Doesn't help that I like each of these characters and their playstyles. Not sure what to do in this situation, as it took me well over a year to figure a similar thing out in Smash 4. Curse my indecisiveness!
I suppose I at least cut it down to a top 6, making it a bit easier to manage, so that's something. That, and compared to Smash 4, as well as Blazblue, I know moreso what I'm looking for with a main.

Spoiler: Characters dropped & my reasonings for those curious

- Heavyweight
// - Don't feel quite right compared to past iterations
/ - Extremely inconsistent results
/ - Don't like their recovery
/ - Playstyle feels too campy
// - Combos seem overly complex for my liking
- Not a fan of puppet characters

You seem to be in the same boat I'm in, honestly.
I also mained Lucario and Mewtwo in Smash4, along with Samus. Also played Zelda, Lucina, Greninja and Palutena.

This time around I was super stoked for Dark Samus but a little nervous about losing the DA combos. However I'm convinced Samus is better overall this time around since the combo strings she can pull off now, even if they're not true combos, are more varied and allow for more creativity and mix ups than before. It's also easier to break shields with Bomb/Super Missile + Charge Beam, or dash in for the grab once they're conditioned to shield dash attack.

Also definitely going to stick with Mewtwo for a lot of the tryhard matches, and the new and improved Palutena is up there too, able to keep up with and go toe-to-toe with the faster high tiers.

Lucario actually feels a lot better and faster in this game, and I can confirm that he can KO right out of the gate at 0% if the opponent is in normal kill %. Useful for a quick revenge KO after respawning.

One more thing that's in Samus' favor if she's a low tier is that she won't have much representation and therefore people will be unfamiliar with the matchup. If you have a creative playstyle and can mix up your approaches and punishes, they likely won't be able to adapt much either. That was basically Zelda's most important saving grace in Smash4.

 

[slamallama]

Extremely pressing and important question:
Why tf doesn't the Dark Samus spirit fight acting as Gandrayda actually use her Gandrayda color swap? It uses the blue/purple one instead, which makes zero sense to me. Nitpick, but still... what???

 

[Diem]

Extremely pressing and important question:
Why tf doesn't the Dark Samus spirit fight acting as Gandrayda actually use her Gandrayda color swap? It uses the blue/purple one instead, which makes zero sense to me. Nitpick, but still... what???

I noticed that the other day, too. SSBWiki lists the purple alt color as the one derived from Gandrayda, too, though that might just be due to the Spirit using it. I agree that the pink one makes more sense, so I don't know what's up with that.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Sorry for the late response.

snip.

Well, I don't think projectiles are my weak point. I did solo main Mewtwo in 4, so I understood how his shadow ball game worked. My issue here is solely based on choosing between favorites that I can enjoy playing at that sort of level. That's why I was iffy on Lucario, Ridley, and MK, Lucario in 4 was too focused on getting damage to be useful, MK was essentially ladder combo and nothing else, and my Ridley is inconsistent and I can't tell exactly why that is. With Dark Samus my concern is specifically with her tier status: If she's low tier, I don't want to go through the pain of maining a low tier, due to the struggle it will take for actual improvement. It seems like her and Samus being low tier is unlikely though, so that's interesting.

snip.

I understand low tiers don't get representation at tournies, and playing a character that isn't really represented is appealing. The problem is that playing a low tier immediately puts one at a disadvantage and makes fantastic results unlikely. Not impossible of course, I know players have been able to do it, it's just unlikely for someone who hasn't attended tournies yet.
In terms of Lucario, it's interesting to hear that he isn't dependent on Aura this time around, which means I'll give him more of a look. Have a friend who's used him throughout Smash 4, so he'd be able to help me learn him. Still not sure on some of the others on my top 6 though. Meta Knight's dependence on ladders combos, my inconsistency with Ridley, both are a little concerning, but if I can't work with 'em, I can't work with 'em.

 

[meleebrawler]

I noticed that the other day, too. SSBWiki lists the purple alt color as the one derived from Gandrayda, too, though that might just be due to the Spirit using it. I agree that the pink one makes more sense, so I don't know what's up with that.

There's definitely a lot of oddities in how Dark Samus is represented in Ultimate. Like how her Prime 2 design is used for her fighter spirit when plenty of renders for her more fitting Corruption design exist.

 

[Metal Shop X]

There's definitely a lot of oddities in how Dark Samus is represented in Ultimate. Like how her Prime 2 design is used for her fighter spirit when plenty of renders for her more fitting Corruption design exist.

Samus use her Samus Return design for her fighter spirit despite still using her Other M design, Wolf fighter spirit also use his Star Fox Assault design instead of any art from Zero.

Whatever you think about this, it's definitly not a unique case to Dark Samus only, tho, I don't think it's much of a problem personaly.

 

[IsmaR]

The weirdest thing to me is still that the Trace Spirit Battle uses pink Varia Suit regular Samus rather than actual red Dark Samus (which is used for the Mother Brain Spirit Battle).

 

[Downshift]

Do we have a video archive thread for Samus play?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I typeset something.

Source:

There was a problem fetching the tweet

 

[Downshift]

ESAM, who is a Pikachu main with Samus as a secondary is still has probably the best Samus I've seen so far in Ultimate.
Went up against a pro level Snake and chose Samus over Pikachu for the matchup.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgNq12NHMzs

3 stocked the Snake. He was really aggressive and pulled out an impressive win.
This was Winners Finals. They met again in Grand Finals where he went 2-2 with his Samus and then switched to Pika.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I'm gonna share these two matches from last weekly at London Ontario (this is Canadian London, not UK).

This is Train, and he had a hell of a run with Dark Samus, including a double win against Alphicans:
Winner's Semi-finals:

Loser's Finals:

 

[ShinyRegice]

So I just learned about Metroid Prime 4 being delayed. Disappointing. Now it's likely going to be a late Switch title. But at least we know on what Retro Studios is working now, and it's not n ourtright cancellation like I worried when watching the video on my Switch. Maybe after the Other M backlash they were worried about giving the work of a 3D Metroid to a team other than Retro?

Let's hope it's not delayed further to become a vaporware in development hell. But now it feels like if Super Mario Odyssey was announced in 2012.

 

[DavemanCozy]

I heard about that too. Retro Studios today is mostly not the same team that worked on the original Metroid Prime Trilogy either, but most of them are the ones who have done the Donkey Kong Country Returns games.

I'm optimistic and I'm also hopeful, but it does worry me that they must start from scratch. The other game must've really sucked if they had to start from scratch... that really is no easy decision to make, that's months of money and time lost.

 

[Reila]

I hope the new game has Dark Samus somehow on it, since it is starting from scratch.

 

[meleebrawler]

I hope the new game has Dark Samus somehow on it, since it is starting from scratch.

It's very unlikely Dark Samus will have anything to do with the main plot even if she survived, considering how far removed Phaaze was from where the Metroid games usually take place.

Something interesting they could do with her is make a stealth game. She can use invisibility, and lack of Phazon power could explain her being far weaker in a straight fight than she used to be. Maybe later on she could ''reawaken'' abilities she absorbed from the hunters, freezing water to open new paths, hacking machinery, or using shapeshifting as a disguise.

 

[Downshift]

Wasn't Bandai Namco Japan working on Prime 4 before this?

 

[Aetheri]

Wasn't Bandai Namco Japan working on Prime 4 before this?

It was only rumoured as there was no official confirmation, from my understanding, from either Nintendo or Namco. Though I've also heard a new team was put together to make the game.

It seems as though they didn't quite meet qualifications for this project.

Either way it's nice to have some confirmation on who's actually developing the game. However it's important to note that most of the developers from Retro Studios that worked on the Trilogy are no longer part of the studio anymore. That said they have proven even after their work on Prime 3 that they can deliver some quality games as we see with Tropical Freeze. I have faith that they are qualified enough to handle the task once again.

I'm actually curious if they'll get Andrew Jones and Danny Richardson back for their Art Direction on the game as they worked on the concept art for the Trilogy and did amazing work!

 

[KirbyWorshipper2465]

Well, depending on circumstances, at least the gal will come back in the limelight…

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/20...y_for_nintendo_switch_is_ready_to_be_released

 

[meleebrawler]

Interestingly Samus got a buff to missile distance and aerial endlag but not Dark Samus. Does it just bring her in line with the latter? Both also have less endlag on bombs.

 

[IsmaR]

I tested both and documented my findings in the official Smashboards patch notes thread.

Despite not being listed, Dark Samus gets the same missile range buff.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Yeah, not everything on that list is 100% accurate, but doesn’t kill to find out/confirm some things for ourselves. It’s a start at least far as Smash patch notes go.

 

[slamallama]

Okay so having Solid Snake as an amiibo is hype AF, but Dark Samus when?? I kinda thought since she was confirmed before Ken, she'd be out before him, but apparently not....

 

[meleebrawler]

What do you all think Dark Samus's mystery costumes sound effects will be in Mario Maker 2? I'd wager they'd be Prime-themed, at least.

 

[Ultomato]

What do you all think Dark Samus's mystery costumes sound effects will be in Mario Maker 2? I'd wager they'd be Prime-themed, at least.

Wasn't this exact discussion in the Ridley thread Just now?

 

[Porygon2]

What do you all think Dark Samus's mystery costumes sound effects will be in Mario Maker 2? I'd wager they'd be Prime-themed, at least.

Short of the laugh, it would be difficult to translate Dark Samus's actual sounds to the 8-bit aesthetic without them sounding like miscellaneous 'monster' noises. Alternates could be the sound that plays on entering hypermode, or a snippet of the classic metroid theme, similar to how it plays during the opening of the prime core essence battle. Plain old metroid screechy noises could be a nice little nod, too.

 

[IsmaR]

While the ideal clear music would be her own theme, I'd also like it if it was the first riff of this:

 

[meleebrawler]

Short of the laugh, it would be difficult to translate Dark Samus's actual sounds to the 8-bit aesthetic without them sounding like miscellaneous 'monster' noises. Alternates could be the sound that plays on entering hypermode, or a snippet of the classic metroid theme, similar to how it plays during the opening of the prime core essence battle. Plain old metroid screechy noises could be a nice little nod, too.

...When have they truly cared about sounds from these characters matching the 8-bit aesthetic? Especially if they have modern origins? Some series do default to the oldest entry if there's a lot of characters but Metroid isn't one of them. And that loud scream when she dies/falls into a pit is almost as unmistakable as her laugh. That is, if they don't just use the Prime versions of the gunship exit, death and item get sounds.

 

[Crystanium]

I'm currently on a tablet, but here's a video against a Snake I played against in Elite Smash. I did Bo3. The third match will be uploaded tomorrow. I forgot to save the second match. Critiques are welcome. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/KbzOrUx-rvs

 

[Ultomato]

I'm currently on a tablet, but here's a video against a Snake I played against in Elite Smash. I did Bo3. The third match will be uploaded tomorrow. I forgot to save the second match. Critiques are welcome. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/KbzOrUx-rvs

Nice match. You seemed to be evenly skilled players but with Snake easily being a higher tier I'd call it a good victory.
I always love to see Fair out of charging, but I seem to mess up the timing.

I do think you could have won easier if you hadn't tried to outspace a Snake (because that didn't really work).
You have the tools to approach, Dash attack and Zair are very safe. Although they don't combo as well as they did, rushing in (with care) is the easiest way to break Snakes free stage control.

 

[Crystanium]

Ultomato
Thanks. I felt that was the only option, but I thought about approaching before the third match began. Here's the third match. I forgot to save the second replay.

https://youtu.be/AuRzwvnjpow

There are plenty more videos on that channel.

 

[Diem]

I'm currently on a tablet, but here's a video against a Snake I played against in Elite Smash. I did Bo3. The third match will be uploaded tomorrow. I forgot to save the second match. Critiques are welcome. Enjoy!

https://youtu.be/KbzOrUx-rvs

Ultomato
Thanks. I felt that was the only option, but I thought about approaching before the third match began. Here's the third match. I forgot to save the second replay.

https://youtu.be/AuRzwvnjpow

There are plenty more videos on that channel.

You're probably a better Samus/Dark Samus player than me, and I've never played a Snake that skilled, so take my words with a grain of salt. I'm no expert here.

One thing I think you might've underutilized was normal missiles. I find them to be really effective at putting pressure on the opponent--even moreso than super missiles in most circumstances. Because of how effectively they can track an opponent on Battlefield especially, most opponents don't know what to do against them, and it often forces them to shield. I think because regular missiles weren't very useful in previous games, many players aren't used to dealing with them compared to many other characters' projectiles. Your super missiles in these games didn't seem to accomplish much, but I think regular missiles might've had more effect. But whether or not either missile could be effective against the grenade spam of Snake, I'm uncertain.

You also maybe could've been a little more aggressive and used less ranged attacks, but without proper knowledge of the Snake matchup, don't take my word for it. Perhaps if you'd been more aggressive, you'd have gotten beaten by Snake's really good tilts. You won the set, so perhaps yours was the best strategy.

Your use of the morph ball for evasion and recovery was astounding. I didn't even realize it could be used like that; it's the one move I've been struggling to figure out how and when it should be used, and you gave me the answer. Your avatar is very fitting.

 

[Crystanium]

You're probably a better Samus/Dark Samus player than me, and I've never played a Snake that skilled, so take my words with a grain of salt. I'm no expert here.

I appreciate the compliment. I cannot say whether or not I'm a better Samus/Dark Samus than you. I'm kind of hard on myself, but thank you.

One thing I think you might've underutilized was normal missiles. I find them to be really effective at putting pressure on the opponent--even moreso than super missiles in most circumstances. Because of how effectively they can track an opponent on Battlefield especially, most opponents don't know what to do against them, and it often forces them to shield. I think because regular missiles weren't very useful in previous games, many players aren't used to dealing with them compared to many other characters' projectiles. Your super missiles in these games didn't seem to accomplish much, but I think regular missiles might've had more effect. But whether or not either missile could be effective against the grenade spam of Snake, I'm uncertain.

Yeah. I've instead tried jumping over the grenades if they were thrown my way. It gets them off the stage and doesn't create a wall. Snake would be better off just creating a wall with them.

You also maybe could've been a little more aggressive and used less ranged attacks, but without proper knowledge of the Snake matchup, don't take my word for it. Perhaps if you'd been more aggressive, you'd have gotten beaten by Snake's really good tilts. You won the set, so perhaps yours was the best strategy.

I could have, but I've been trying to work on an evasive play style, since early on it worked so well against me when I fought other characters. I have my preference set to Battlefield, so those who are familiar with the layout tend to work with platforms. I felt it would be safer for me to stay back and try to get Snake to chase me. By the third match, I was thinking that I should try getting in Snake's range with some aerials.

Your use of the morph ball for evasion and recovery was astounding. I didn't even realize it could be used like that; it's the one move I've been struggling to figure out how and when it should be used, and you gave me the answer. Your avatar is very fitting.

Thanks. My brother laughed when he saw me be evasive against Snake's Nikita. I thought it looked pretty cool when watching the replay. I think it just takes practice in using the morph ball. It can be handy because even if your opponent realizes you don't have another jump, it helps stall your descent.

 

[Porygon2]

Any tips/controller layouts for reliably pulling off wavebounce charge shot? My issue seems to be that I reliably pull off a turnaround b (i.e., avoid inputting side special) by letting go of the left stick after flicking, but I struggle to move my thumb back to the centre of the stick in time to pull off the b reverse follow up. Perhaps it was just luck but I was playing undocked yesterday and seemed to have more success when using the joycon stick. I normally use a pro controller.