Dirtiest Player in the Game - Wario Social Thread

xzx

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SoulPech, Reflex made me a very good tutorial of how to do it. I have linked his description in the "Wario Technique thread" or something, look it up (some of the latest posts there)!

EDIT: Here it is. All credits go to Reflex (TRW). I'll take no credits for this (I have marked the important stuff though):

"Here's what I say.

After you start a D-Throw, hold Back (as in, the direction you'll want to face after the D-Throw is over). Toward the end of the animation (you have a 10-frame window to do everything immediately after this parenthesis), let go of Back, press Grab, AND RELEASE GRAB.

If you don't release Grab before the 10-frame window is over, the grab won't be buffered. In order to make sure that happens, some people only press down on the edge of the Z button (so their finger slides off after you apply pressure), because the position of the Z button makes it take longer to press and unpress normally. I personally switch my unused Jump button (X for me) to Grab and press it like a shorthop." - TheReflexWonder

Just to be clear, Reflex, this has helped me a lot.
 

Strawhat64

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SoulPech, Reflex made me a very good tutorial of how to do it. I have linked his description in the "Wario Technique thread" or something, look it up (some of the latest posts there)!

EDIT: Here it is. All credits go to Reflex (TRW). I'll take no credits for this (I have marked the important stuff though):

"Here's what I say.

After you start a D-Throw, hold Back (as in, the direction you'll want to face after the D-Throw is over). Toward the end of the animation (you have a 10-frame window to do everything immediately after this parenthesis), let go of Back, press Grab, AND RELEASE GRAB.

If you don't release Grab before the 10-frame window is over, the grab won't be buffered. In order to make sure that happens, some people only press down on the edge of the Z button (so their finger slides off after you apply pressure), because the position of the Z button makes it take longer to press and unpress normally. I personally switch my unused Jump button (X for me) to Grab and press it like a shorthop." - TheReflexWonder

Just to be clear, Reflex, this has helped me a lot.

I agree with this. Now we need a video showing this technique for those whom use visual learning. Like, top video would be gameplay and a small video on the bottom showing the controller. Just saying.
 

TheReflexWonder

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It doesn't matter how many frames are between the inputs you do as long as it's within the ten-frame window.

I think what would be best for people is a frame-by-frame picture that shows the window. The Pikachu boards have done something similar.
 

xzx

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The best way is to practice it while reading the tutorial, like I did. Just have patience though. It's not that hard, really. What's hard is figuring out the way to do it. Or so it was for me...
 

SoulPech

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I have the timing and buffering down and I can CG Falco no problem. The tutorial did help and a video explaining it won't really do anything. Also, I was looking for who the cg works on. I know that it works on Wolf, DK, Bowser, Falco, and I saw Reflex in a vid where he did it on P-1's Diddy. Besides that, I don't know who else.
 

TheReflexWonder

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It works on Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, as well.

I don't recall ever doing it to Diddy Kong. Maybe it was on a slant or something...? Either way, it doesn't normally work against him.
 

SoulPech

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I'll try to find a vid when I get home from work, but I saw you do it on P-1 before when he was DIddy. do you happen to know the % range?

I know Bowser's, Wolf's, DKs, and Falco's, but idk ganon's or CFs
 

TheReflexWonder

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These should be the numbers from my memory (since the original AiB post doesn't seem to exist anymore):

Bowser: Can be started anywhere between 0-...some%, ends at 180%
Captain Falcon: Can be started anywhere between 0-...some%, ends at 70%
Donkey Kong: Can be started anywhere between 0-...some%, ends at ~100%
Falco: Can be started anywhere between 53-72%, ends at 120%
Ganondorf: Can be started anywhere between 0-...some%, ends at 90%
Wolf: Can be started anywhere between 59-146%, ends at 200%
 

xzx

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Here's the list in the Technique thread:

Falco - 53% to 120%

Donkey Kong - 0% to 100%, 110% to 145%

Bowser - 0% to 180%

Falcon - 0% to 70%

Wolf - 59% to 200%

Ganondorf - 0% to 90%

However, I recall someone (DMG...?) saying that Wolf can be CGd earlier. Is this true?

Wario can't CG Diddy Kong. However, Wario can CG some characters if there are slopes on both sides or if there are two walls paralelled to each other. Note that Wario can >regrab< certain characters if a wall or a slope is present. Otherwise, he can't CG other characters than those listed above.
 

Tesh

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are the slopes on frigate's 2nd transition close enough to assist chaingrabbing on anyone?

it would be interesting if we could cg snake or some other heavies there
 

xzx

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I could imagine larger characters maybe. But I don't think many can be CGd due to the slopes not being close enough to each other. Or I don't know.
 

Tesh

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that would be something interesting to research

even if it just could help with landing dthrow to fart, it could be very useful
 

Labernash

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I would imagine you could only get one regrab on Frigate. I don't think they go far enough to hit the other slant. Not sure.



Hey Lord Chair, I'd like to hear your opinion on Waymas' Wario. I remember you saying Gluttony's was bad or not optimal or something, so I'd like to hear what you have to say on the way Waymas does it. Just for kicks
 

Lord Chair

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I haven't seen anything from him more recent than Apex. He looked fine but iirc he had a few flaws in his gameplay mostly pertaining to a lack of pressure. If you link me something specific I can give you my kicking opinion.
 

xzx

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Suboptimal yet it works out because he's a genius. You can justify any playstyle if you are capable of making hard reads consistently.
Ah okay.

Lord Chair I haven't seen much of your Wario. Can you recommend me some videos?
 

Lord Chair

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Wtf is with all the reverence lmao.

It's hard to say anything substantial about that set considering all he had to do was play reactionary and he was pretty much set. Wonf goes for questionable options often enough, tends to spazz out and finds himself in situations to which he doesn't know the optimal way of handling them. Waymas has a weird habit of going especially high when there is no direct need for it and I don't really like that against Marth, pulling out the bike shouldn't be worth the effort and risks involved (although here it's kinda compensated by Wonf not dealing with tires accordingly).

I specifically dislike Waymas' lack of pressure. He doesn't set up for anything and his conditioning is poor. He either approaches or does some weak nigh-stationary airdodging which just doesn't bring enough of a threat to the table. He doesn't do empty hops, he doesn't poke fairs and he doesn't shield approach. This makes his playstyle telegraphed and mostly reliant on the errors Wonf will inevitably make. There are just certain heights or certain timing on which he no longer poses a threat because he will opt to land with an airdodge and this greatly reduces his passive pressure.

Vid keeps crashing for some reason, will comment more later.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yVzTcBFPxm4 this is a recent set of mine in which I actually do some inventive counterplay (retreating bike to beat dash attack, option selects).
 

Labernash

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Awesome, thanks! I like what you pointed out, I can kinda see what's going on better. I watched your set too, and I noticed the things you pointed out that Waymas doesn't do working for you, that helps too.

Loved your set, by the way. Especially when you jumped through the SV Platform and bit his grenade to tummysplode him! I was like "come on sexy yeah yeah yeah yeah." Wish you SDI'd his nair/dair and CG'd his DK, but I really like how good your Wario is, just to say.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Aqq948Kg21Q - Here's Waymas vs Rafa, thought of this because of Ramin's Snake. You don't have to do anything with it, just thought I'd throw it out there in case you did.

EDIT: Would you or anyone mind explaining what you mean by conditioning? I mean, I have an ittsybitsy idea based off of what it sounds like, but I like to read other peoples words.
 

Lord Chair

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Conditioning is, pretty much, baiting your opponent into the false pretense of making a hard read. Simplistically you feign a habit and correctly guess when your opponent is going to try and exploit it.
 

Lord Chair

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Just start of doing it and look at the way your opponent reacts. They're super low risk and force reactions. This gives you the opportunity to feel your opponent up without having to show your own hand. Finding the right balance between staying grounded and taking it to the air is important of course, too much jumping means you're risking yourself getting walled and/or zoned whereas too much ground game (read: shielding) means you're going to get pressured and you're limiting yourself in your options.
 

Croi

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At Impulse, and it's the first time I've ever really gotten hype from the crowd. Fat lot of good it did, I played terrible all day. It's not Wario's fault, it was mine. Gotta shape up.
 

xzx

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At Impulse, and it's the first time I've ever really gotten hype from the crowd. Fat lot of good it did, I played terrible all day. It's not Wario's fault, it was mine. Gotta shape up.
I know that feeling. =I
 

Lord Chair

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You guys want to get better, right? Ask questions about positioning, matchups, post vids, whatever. After all this time there's still quite an impressive amount of you not being at any recognizable level of skill so surely there are things you guys have trouble dealing with. Sorry to break it hard like that but if you have a lot to work on you might as well do it together if it means you're going to progress more quickly. If your results are lacking I'm 95% sure it's a problem with your fundamentals, work on those!
 

Croi

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I posted vids in the vid thread but nobody gave a hoot. Aside from someone occasionally saying "man, this place is pretty dead, we should revive it", maybe we should just accept that it's dead and start maining Meta Knight
 

Lord Chair

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You post an hour worth of material without asking specific questions. I'm not going to go through all of that and comment on every single mistake you make because it's largely a big waste of my valuable time. I want to critique you but you're going to have to give me something to work with. I think I posted about this before:

- Tell us what you know went wrong, but know what to do about it.
- Tell us what you know went wrong, but don't know how to fix it.
- Ask about specific situations.
- Ask about specific move usage.
- Tell us something about your broad understanding of the theory behind the matchup and to which extent it did and did not work out.

If you're not doing any of this no one is going to bother spending time because clearly you aren't willing to pull up a proper debate yourself. I do not enjoy watching your matches because they're filled with suboptimal strategy and decisionmaking or just blatant tech skill errors. I do enjoy helping you on all that but you're going to have to help me help you.
 
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