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Dins Mechanics & Frame Data


Smash Cadet
Jul 23, 2015
The current dins has 8 unique states: casting, stationary, full detonation, manual detonation while stationary, manual detonation while returning, return to owner with hitbox, return to owner without hitbox, and fade away. This contains frame data relevant to each state, the mechanics of each state, and the conditions on which the state changes.

  • Miniumum casting time (including endlag): 47 frames
  • Maximum casting time (including endlag): 110 frames
  • Hitbox appears 9 frames after releasing b while casting, ie 9 frames after endlag begins
  • IASA after releasing b/minimum/maximum casting time (ie endlag): 23 frames
Casting dins (relative to how large dins grows) can last anywhere from 25 to 88 frames. All data provided regarding the dins size, velocity, and damage is relative to this 25 to 88 frame cast time NOT relative to the cast time + endlag. While casting, dins will grow at a linear rate and will travel horizontally at an exponentially decreasing rate*.

While casting, you can hold up/down on the control stick to influence the vertical and horizontal velocity vectors of where dins is to be cast. This means holding up on the control stick for frames 25 to 35 during an 88 frame cast, then returning the stick to neutral from frames 35 to 88 will cause the dins to continue upwards in a diagonal direction from frames 35 to 88. Holding the control stick left or right has no influence on where dins is cast. The change in angle is constant per frame too, so you can hold the control stick up for 10 frames, then down for 10 frames, and the dins will travel in a straight horizontal direction for the remaining frames of casting.

Casting will instantly end if the center of the dins intersects with either the ground, a ground level wall, bottom surface of the ground, or the top of a platform. The first and last occur only if the casting vertical velocity vector component is in a downward direction. Casting also stops if you cast dins along the edge ground & it grows to where the center intersects with the ground due to its increased size.

If Zelda is hit between frames 25 and 88 of casting dins, dins will continue to be cast in the direction based on the 1st frame Zelda was hit. It will continue to grow until it is fully cast, the dins intersects the ground or top of a platform, or Zelda performs a manual detonation (confirm 3rd point).

* Assumes no vertical movement. Also, horizontal distance traveled is practically linear for the 1st 55 frames of casting.

Stationary damage, based on frames cast:

Damage Frames cast Frames since last damage increase

7 25 25

8 35 10

9 48 13

10 62 14

11 75 13

12 88 13

While stationary, the dins can be moved by a moving platform. The two cases for tourney related stages are Green Hill Zone (GHZ) and Delphino's Secret (DS). For GHZ, the stationary dins can only be moved upwards by the platform. For DS, the diagonal platforms can move the dins up and to the side, depending on the direction the platforms move. In both cases, dins can only be moved up, left, and right, not down.

The dins will remain stationary until 1 of 4 things happen:
1) Another character gets hit by the stationary dins
2) Zelda manually detonates dins
3) The stationary timer runs out, upon which a full detonation occurs.
4) Zelda transforms, triggering a full explosion regardless of how long the dins has been stationary

For conditions 1-3, dins then enters the return to owner state. For condition 4, dins disappears 1 frame after the full detonation hitbox appears.

Note: Manually Detonated Full Explosion (aka “MDFE”, aka “Premature Detonation”)
While dins is stationary, there are a series of audio cues referred to here as “pulses”. There are 7 pulses, each with a spacing of 25 frames. On the 8th pulse, the dins audio changes to prepare for a full explosion. The spacing between the 8th pulse and the full detonation hitbox is 29 frames. This means the number of frames between the 1st pulse and the 1st frame of the full detonation hitbox is 204 frames. You can trigger a full explosion up to 23 frames earlier by inputting side b for a manual detonation. This means you can manually trigger a full explosion starting as low as 180 frames after the 1st pulse. Unfortunately, Zelda cannot delay the full explosion beyond 204 frames by inputting side-b on, for instance, frame 203.
Manual detonation while stationary/returning

Frame 0: input side b
Frame 12: Hitbox disappears, velocity becomes 0
Frame 16 (frame 15 if stationary): larger explosion hitbox appears
Frame 21 (frame 20 if stationary): larger hitbox disappears
Frame 32: Smaller hitbox appears, movement begins
IASA- 31
Frames from IASA until a manual detonation can be used again without misfiring, assuming opponent has not been hit by a return to owner hitbox*: 5 (see below for misfire definition)

Both states have nearly the same frame data. Stationary manual explosion hitbox comes out 1 frame earlier than returning manual detonation.

Note: Manual Detonation Cooldown (referred to as “cool down”) & Misfire
When an opponent gets hit by a return to owner/fade away dins, the return to owner hitbox stops interacting with the character, but still returns to Zelda. Zelda can reactivate this hitbox by inputting a manual detonation. However, the manual detonation will not occur under 2 conditions:

1) Less than 20 frames have passed since the last freeze frame when an opponent was hit with a return to owner hitbox. This 20 frame segment is referred to as a cool down.
2) Zelda attempts a manual detonation less than 36 frames after the input for the last manual detonation, assuming the previous manual detonation occurred.

Under conditions 1 and 2, Zelda will still perform the animation and be unable to perform any other input, meaning that Zelda will be committed to the animation for 31 frames This is referred to as a misfire. If the opponent gets hit by the return to owner hitbox during the first 12 frames of the manual detonation, condition 1 will be met and a misfire will occur. The return to owner hitbox will not come back if circumstances fall under condition 1.
*This 5 frame delay also applies to the first 5 frames of the return to owner state after dins has gone through a full explosion while stationary.
Full explosion

There are three ways to trigger a full explosion:
1) The stationary timer runs out
2) Zelda triggers a MDFE (see “Manually detonated full explosion” section for more details)
3) Zelda transforms.

If the stationary timer runs out or a MDFE occurs, the full explosion hitbox is out for 5 frames. For conditions 1 and 2, the dins then enters the return to owner state.

If Zelda transforms, the full explosion hitbox comes out 49 frames after inputting down b and the hitbox is only out for 1 frame. Zelda and dins then disappears the next frame.

Full explosion damage, based on frames cast:

FE Damage Frames Cast Frames since last damage increase

10 25 25

11 26 1

12 30 4

13 34 4

14 39 5

15 43 4

16 47 4

17 52 5

18 56 4

19 61 5

20 65 4

21 70 5

22 74 4

23 79 5

24 83 4

25 88 5
Return to owner with/without hitbox
Return to owner damage, based on frames cast:
Damage Frames cast Frames since last damage increase

4 25 25

5 35 10

6 48 13

7 62 14

8 75 13

9 88 13

NOTE: These damage increase increments are the same as the stationary damage increments.

The velocity vector on the first frame in return to owner is the same as the velocity vector on the last frame dins was cast.

The return to owner damage increases after casting for the number of frames provided. If a character gets hit by this hitbox, the damage is dealt and the cool down begins. See Manual detonation while stationary/returning for more details.

The dins will continue traveling to Zelda until 1 of 3 conditions occur:
1) The return to owner timer runs out (480 frames, starting on the frame dins begins to return to Zelda)
2) Zelda gets hit or grabbed during the return to owner state (need to confirm if suffers damage, knockback, or hitlag)
3) The return to owner hitbox intersects with 1 of Zelda's collision points. This can occur during the two frames zelda is invisible while telecanceling.

If the dins returns to Zelda and the return to owner hitbox intersects with her collision points, the dins will disappear. This means that during the endlag of the manual detonation and full explosion, and Zelda's collision points intersect the dins during these events, dins will not disappear until 1 frame after the return to owner hitbox reappears and the previously mentioned statement is also in effect.

The dins velocity vector is based on a simple steering mechanic. Each frame, the dins checks two numbers, the angle between the current dins velocity vector and the position vector from the center of the dins towards the center of Zelda. The dins velocity vector can only change its velocity vector by a maximum number of degrees each frame, based on its size (see table below). If the velocity-position angle is greater than the max angle change, then the velocity vector rotates that maximum angle, otherwise, it rotates the velocity-position angle.

Max velocity vector angle change, based on frames cast:

Frames cast Max velocity vector degree change per frame

25 10

35 9.5

45 7.2

55 5.8

65 4.7

75 4

85 3.4

88 3.333

Through this steering mechanic, it is possible to position Zelda so that the velocity-position angle is always greater than the maximum rotation angle, causing the dins to constantly rotate around Zelda. This is more commonly known as a dins orbital.

Note: Dins Orbitals
Some quick terms:
In the dins orbital section, the dins size will be referred to based on its damage during the return to owner state. For instance, a “size 6” will refer to a dins that has been cast for exactly 48 frames for simplification purposes. This means sizes can only vary from 4 through 9.

Once an orbital has been made, the dins rotates in a circle about some center. This is referred to as the “orbital center” with an “orbital zone” Zelda must be in for the orbital to continue. Once an orbital has been made, you can move the center or create a new center. Details on moving the orbital center/making a new orbital center are provided below.

Initiating an orbital
Based on the steering mechanic described above, initiating an orbital is based on three factors: the velocity vector of the dins, the position of dins, and the position of Zelda. For simplification purposes, let's assume 2 variables are constant for the 0st frame: the velocity vector is dins and its position. Assume that Zelda is in some initial position at frame 0, then reappears in another position the next frame. Where would Zelda need to be for an orbital to be initiated for just that 1 frame when she reappears? Simply, any location where the velocity vector would need to change at the maximum angle. One could argue that Zelda can be in any location for this frame as long as her collision points don't intersect the return to owner hitbox. However, the dins velocity vector would then adjust so it heads directly towards Zelda, making this scenario moot.

One the 2nd frame of Zelda's position change, assume Zelda's position will remain constant and dins how has a velocity and can change position. On the 2nd frame, dins will now change it's velocity and position based on Zelda's location. Where would Zelda need to be for an orbital to continue for the 2 frames? Again, any location where the velocity vector would need to change at the maximum angle for both frames. This will continue (for n frames) until either 1) Dins returns to Zelda and disappears or 2) Dins never returns to Zelda and an orbital is induced. Basically, as the number of frames increase, the further dins travels, and the number of positions Zelda can be in to initiate an orbital decreases (again, assuming her position is constant). Eventually, there's only 2 major regions Zelda can be in, both regions must be within the orbital radius based on the position of dins on the 1st frame Zelda's position changes.

Through all this there are two rules for dins orbitals: 1) On any given frame, a return to owner dins has two possible orbital centers. These two centers are at 90 degree angles from the dins velocity vector and are a distance from the dis equal to the orbital radius, which is based on the size of the dins. 2) As long as Zelda is positioned within the radius of either of these orbital zones, relative to the orbital center, an orbital will occur.

See “There & back” for an application where one doesn't apply the “nth frame” rule.

There are 4 methods to obtaining an orbital: being in an initial orbital zone while dins is stationary, movement, aerial manual detonation, and teleporting. The first applies to the stationary state, which the other three apply to the return to owner/fade away states.

1) Initial orbital zone

This method only works when dins is in the stationary state. Since the return to owner 1st frame velocity is equal to the velocity on the last frame while casting, one can simply position themselves within the orbital zone and either manually detonate or wait for a full explosion. For the sake of pragmatism, a size 4 orbital can only be obtained using this method, and arguable the easiest orbital to set up.

Example with size 4: http://gfycat.com/FittingWarmDog

Example with size 7: http://gfycat.com/ScalyFlatGazelle

2) Movement

Using wavedashing/wavelanding, jumping/mid-air jumping, rolling, and even dashing, one can initiate an orbital. In this section, jumping is the only good option to obtaining an orbital when dins is traveling low to the ground/platform and in a horizontal direction. For all other cases, they are best used when dins is approaching from a diagonal or vertical direction.

Example with wavelanding: http://gfycat.com/FriendlyHeftyBoilweevil

Example with jumping: http://gfycat.com/DisloyalFlimsyFinnishspitz

Example with rolling: http://gfycat.com/AcidicLastElk

Example with dashing: http://gfycat.com/UnimportantShorttermDikdik

3) Aerial manual detonation (AMD)

While in the air and performing a manual detonation, the dins will temporarily be stationary while exploding while Zelda is always moving through the air. AMD is the only method where one can initiate an orbital when dins is traveling in any direction. However, the cool down and the high end lag can make this method difficult to achieve in the heat of battle.

Example with dins approaching from a diagonal: http://gfycat.com/IdealisticSoftCurassow

Example with dins approaching from the horizontal: http://gfycat.com/ShamefulEqualKudu

4) Teleporting

Due to the dins entering the fade away state while Zelda in invisible before reappearing/canceling, Zelda can reappear in a zone that initiates an orbital. This method works best when dins is approaching from a diagonal or vertical direction. If it is moving near the ground and in a horizontal direction, Zelda can teleport to a platform to achieve an orbital.

Example with dins approaching from a diagonal: http://gfycat.com/PleasingComplexAplomadofalcon

Example with dins approaching from the horizontal: http://gfycat.com/CircularUntimelyFruitbat

One can combine any of these 4 methods together, with one leading into the other. For example, manually detonating for a better position then into the orbital zone.

One an orbital has been created, there are some applications Zelda can do aside from using is as a barrier between Zelda and her opponent.

Application: Changing the orbital's center
Once an orbital has been initiated (or even before that), it is possible to use initiation options 2 through 4 to influence the center of the orbital. It should be noted that while option 2 (movement) is possible, it is the most difficult to apply and moves the orbital center very little.

Moving the center up: http://gfycat.com/ParallelWigglyGalago

Down: http://gfycat.com/InsidiousAnyIndiancow

Left/Right using teleporting: http://gfycat.com/DismalDazzlingEasteuropeanshepherd

Left/Right using AMD: http://gfycat.com/QuarrelsomeHardGlowworm

Notice how when teleporting in the examples above, the center of the orbital changes at the same speed and direction as the direction dins is heading while Zelda is invisible. This assumes Zelda does not create a new center for the orbital (see application, “Dins Spiral” below).
Application: Dins Spiral
Using the steering & orbital mechanics (see technical description of orbitals for more details), one can use manual detonations and teleporting to make dins move in a spiral pattern. While you can make a spiral in any direction, doing it purely horizontally is the easiest & most practical. When using AMDs, it is far more difficult to execute, especially when the dins is coming from above as opposed to coming from below.

Example with teleporting: http://gfycat.com/BitesizedGregariousGrayfox

Example with AMDs: http://gfycat.com/SandyJaggedIntermediateegret
Application: Infinity Loop
This application is simply moving left and right or up and down (diagonal works too, but is very hard to pull off) into the orbital zone opposite the zone Zelda is currently in, making the dins move in an infinity loop pattern.

Example: http://gfycat.com/ForthrightWelltodoEyas
Application: There & back
Due to the steering mechanics, it is possible to leave the orbital zone for a certain amount of time depending on the size of the dins and where you want to go. The rule of thumb is Zelda can be outside the orbital radius for half the frames it takes dins to make 1 revolution. (see gfycat for example).

Here's a simple example with a size 9 dins. Notice how the dins intersects the edge of the pokeball each time Zelda runs to the orbital zone: http://gfycat.com/PhysicalWigglyLamb
Fade away

During the return to owner state, the following conditions will cause a change to the fade away state:
1) Getting hit or grabbed
2) Becomes invisible due to using up-b
3) Crosses the blast zone without getting hit (ie SDs)

For all these conditions, the dins will fade towards the blast zone with a constant velocity vector that is the velocity vector on the 1st freeze frame (aka 1st frame of hitlag), the 1st frame Zelda is invisible, and the 1st frame Zelda crosses the blast zone for conditions 1, 2, and 3 respectively. The camera stops tracking dins and the dins will disappear once it has crossed the blast zone.

For conditions 1 and 3, if the dins has not reached the blast zone, the 20 frame cool down is not in effect, and Zelda inputs a manual detonation, the dins state will change to return to owner with a hitbox. For condition 2, the dins will change to the return to owner state on the 1st frame Zelda either cancels the up-b (ie the 1st of the 2 frames she's invisible during the cancel) or the 1st frame Zelda reappears if using a full up-b with no canceling.


Smash Journeyman
Jul 4, 2011

This graph is made using Mentor's data with the purpose of providing an easier way of understanding the data. The lines zigzag because the damage presented is the damage dealt rounded to the nearest whole number. If Mentor Mentor provides data for the manual explosion, I'll update this graph as well.
Last edited:


Smash Cadet
Sep 24, 2014
Calgary, Alberta, Netherstorm
So the best way style at the end of a set is with the 1 frame mixup hitbox triggered by transforming into a 'better' character, who you dident even use to whoop them?

I approve. Very much so.

Luis Alonso

Smash Journeyman
Jul 25, 2013
New York, NY
You should discuss what happens to a Din's that have it's casting interrupted in the first possible frames via wall or ground. Some whacky yet neat stuff happens when this occurs.


Smash Cadet
Jul 23, 2015
Luis Alonso Luis Alonso I'm planning on updating this guide, but I need more info first. I call that a "size 3" dins due to the return to owner hitbox dealing 3 damage when normal casting has a 4 damage. It is interesting, but I need to figure out all the proper setups on the tourney legal stages. The update probably won't be out until the end of the year.
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