Din's Fire and Reflectors

[Arcalyth]

Hello all. Straight to the point:

In all iterations of Project M, Din's Fire has not been able to be reflected. Prior to 3.5 this made sense because there was no moving projectile to reflect. A reflection would simply change ownership of the mine and there wouldn't really be any visual indication or anything of this occurring. Plus it makes more sense for the mine to be clanked out by everything that reflects (PK Kid bats, Spacie Shines, Nayru's Love, Dead Man's Volley, Mario Cape, any others I missed?).

In 3.5 and beyond, Din's Fire is still unable to be reflected. I played against a Mario (experienced in other Smash games, but not necessarily PM) and he brought up a good point... why can't we reflect it now?

I still think that the mine should simply be clankable and not reflectable, but the comet (return) fireball should certainly be reflectable. It will unlink from Zelda and reflect like normal, with the usual clank cooldown so that she can't instant recall it.

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I'm sure the community reaction is going to be something along the lines of "omg y u want zelda nerfs?"
But please realize why it's silly for it not to behave like every other projectile in the game while the fireball is moving.

 

[4tlas]

Hello all. Straight to the point:

In all iterations of Project M, Din's Fire has not been able to be reflected. Prior to 3.5 this made sense because there was no moving projectile to reflect. A reflection would simply change ownership of the mine and there wouldn't really be any visual indication or anything of this occurring. Plus it makes more sense for the mine to be clanked out by everything that reflects (PK Kid bats, Spacie Shines, Nayru's Love, Dead Man's Volley, Mario Cape, any others I missed?).

In 3.5 and beyond, Din's Fire is still unable to be reflected. I played against a Mario (experienced in other Smash games, but not necessarily PM) and he brought up a good point... why can't we reflect it now?

I still think that the mine should simply be clankable and not reflectable, but the comet (return) fireball should certainly be reflectable. It will unlink from Zelda and reflect like normal, with the usual clank cooldown so that she can't instant recall it.

---

I'm sure the community reaction is going to be something along the lines of "omg y u want zelda nerfs?"
But please realize why it's silly for it not to behave like every other projectile in the game while the fireball is moving.

2 things, and I don't believe either of these points enough to disagree with you, but I don't agree either.

1) Icicles are unreflectable, even by power shield. God knows why.
2) None of those projectiles can be reclaimed except by another reflect. It would definitely be odd to reclaim Dins.

The third reason, and arguably the most valid, is that it isn't a projectile. Its just a moving hitbox, beause they can't code it as a projectile.

 

[TimeSmash]

I'd have to say paradoxically it makes more sense for it to vanish/clank out in its current iteration than to be able to be reflected back, because then Zelda can just reclaim it. Also, since a reflector traditionally multiplies damage and knockback of a projectile by 1.5 or so, I'm not sure how feasible it would be to code that in, much less if Zelda can reclaim it. (45% off of return Din's lmao).

And if it could be reflected, couldn't Zelda prevent it from hitting her (imagine it trailing off like it does when she gets hit, but she runs into it after it's reflected) by either reflecting the reflected Din's with Nayru's? I kind of already asked this, but it'd be so weird if we had to watch out for our own Din's (though seeing as how a normal Din's returns to Zelda, it's probably just head away from her, though she could get knocked into it somehow). Furthermore, with the way Din's works, I think it'd be a coding nightmare as to hwo has ownership of Din's once it's reflected, assuming Zelda can reclaim it once reflected. If she couldn't reclaim a reflected Din's, I wonder what the rules about that would be. Wait three seconds to cast a new one and make the old one vanish if still on screen? Or wait for the reflected Din's to leave the screen entirely, or get clanked?

Interesting theories all around, after thinking about it and with 4tlas' third reason it makes a lot of sense as to why it works this way now. Strange stuff to think about though!!

 

[Arcalyth]

It'd work like Link's boomerang, as an example of a "recallable" projectile. Should be able to clank the mine and reflect the comet. I'd see her being able to either reflect it back, or recall it.

 

[4tlas]

It'd work like Link's boomerang, as an example of a "recallable" projectile. Should be able to clank the mine and reflect the comet. I'd see her being able to either reflect it back, or recall it.

Link can't suddenly turn the boomerang back to his ownership once reflected. I'm not talking about the recall movement, I'm talking about the reclaiming of ownership through sideB without reflection.

 

[Arcalyth]

Eh, it explodes and comes back like normal? Maybe the reflector could also shorten the life of the fireball, or maybe when you recall it simply explodes and disappears?

 

[4tlas]

Eh, it explodes and comes back like normal? Maybe the reflector could also shorten the life of the fireball, or maybe when you recall it simply explodes and disappears?

I'm not saying it has to be recalled normally or not be recallable, I'm saying that whatever good solution that we come up with will be just as "weird" as it not being reflectable. People complained about 3.02 Zelda being super weird, that all of her specials were weird. It really wasn't that complicated, and if you took 2 seconds to talk to a Zelda main you were no longer confused. But that didn't make it not weird, because let's face it, with such horrible base tools she needs weird things to work.

Yes Dins not being a projectile is weird, but so would any solution involving making Dins a projectile. Dins is just weird!

 

[drsusredfish]

project m 1.0 had a reflectable dins explosion. If i recall correctly the reason why they stopped that is because if two reflectors try to refelect the explosion it did like crazy damage.

 

[Kaeldiar]

Just make it 3.02 Din's

 

[Arcalyth]

I don't even want old dins back tbh.