Q&A Diddy's Q&A + Competitive Development - ASK QUESTIONS HERE

[Lex Jewthor]

I've been testing it and it's actually fairly decent against characters with poor vertical recovery, such as Bowser. You push the opponent down pretty far, and if they've burned their Double Jump it's impossible for them to get back. You also propel yourself up pretty high, and I think you get Monkey Flip back as well so it's pretty easy to get back to the stage and set up.

Unless it's changed in smash 4, grabs (incluing command grabs like Diddy side B and Falcon up B) give the opponent their double jump back.

 

[GroundZero996]

Unless it's changed in smash 4, grabs (incluing command grabs like Diddy side B and Falcon up B) give the opponent their double jump back.

Huh, I guess my opponents didn't know this.

 

[DeLux]

Are you sure it's the grab and not the fact that when someone is grabbed their feet touch the ground in some cases?

 

[Lex Jewthor]

Are you sure it's the grab and not the fact that when someone is grabbed their feet touch the ground in some cases?

I just tested it. You NO LONGER get your jump back in smash 4.

You did in melee, and in PM. That's what was throwing me off. It does seem a lot more viable as a gimp / anti-edgeguard now.

 

[Jahordon]

A lot of players and streamers have been saying to not buy into the Diddy hype. I don't really understand why not to. What's wrong with Diddy's game?

 

[DeLux]

Earlier I mentioned that you can use grab in order to cancel pop gun.
With banana in hand, if you use grab to drop/throw the banana, you'll be setup to easy mode cancel pop gun by simply holding the button. Just remember to let go after so you can do an aerial action.

Not a big deal but that might be helpful for some struggling with pop gun cancelling.

 

[Dragoomba]

Earlier I mentioned that you can use grab in order to cancel pop gun.
With banana in hand, if you use grab to drop/throw the banana, you'll be setup to easy mode cancel pop gun by simply holding the button. Just remember to let go after so you can do an aerial action.

Not a big deal but that might be helpful for some struggling with pop gun cancelling.

It's a really nice mindgame. Another thing that's hilarious to do against unaware players is start charging popgun in the opposite direction, then throw the banana straight at them when they try to punish.

 

[VGPhaze]

Anyone see this yet? It's friggin great! Diddy and sheik get this AT. Watch this asap! It's like a wavedash!

Sorry you'll need to copy/paste:

YouTube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo&spfreload=10

Those two just got another leg up on the competition. I'm seconding Sheik so I've been keeping an eye on that thread.

 

[DeLux]

Anyone see this yet? It's friggin great! Diddy and sheik get this AT. Watch this asap! It's like a wavedash!

Sorry you'll need to copy/paste:

YouTube.com/watch?v=8DXTNEPqcVo&spfreload=10

Those two just got another leg up on the competition. I'm seconding Sheik so I've been keeping an eye on that thread.

This has been a mechanic since Brawl. It's actually less powerful than in Brawl because we can't glide toss OOS for spacing anymore.

 

[Lex Jewthor]

Copy pasting this from Reddit. It's in response to Zero's video guide where he talks a lot about Diddy's weaknesses. I go in depth on a lot of the points he brings up on how to BEAT Diddy, and help explain how aspiring Kongs can avoid these mistakes in their play.


Video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCbybYq_7F4

A great video. Allow me to provide A few notes from the DIDDY KONG perspective.

• 1:13 - I personally disagree with this and think Diddy Kong's Dash attack is really, really bad. It has immense lag and doesn't really go 'through' shields like ZSS or Yoshi Dash attacks. IF all 3 hits link, it does lead to juggles. But the move links really, really poorly and is, in my experience, really bad.
  
  
• 1:50 If Diddy goes STRAIGHT UP here he won't explode. You can ride along ledges as long as you intercept them at a 45 degree angle. There was no reason for the Diddy player to try to 'angle' the up B at all. Recovering low with Diddy IS difficult for the reasons Zero stated, though. If hit out of his up B (Especially while charging) he loses a lot of distance mostly due to how janky the momentum while he charges is. Sometimes I just won't 'slow' my momentum (especially if I eat a hit.)
  
  
• Multiple points - Max range side B is a huge no-no. Biggest thing I see with newer Diddy's is a reliance on this move, ESPECIALLY because it's so hard for lower level players to deal with, and it's even more powerful online.
  
  
• It's not easy to do on 3DS, but BECAUSE Banana forces shields so well, Jump - cancelled throws let you keep momentum, throw in, and then get a grab on the shield.

• As for mixing up the DI. This does work, but only at the mid % ranges. At low % uair is pretty much guaranteed from any vectoring. At High %, Vectoring up ESCAPES everything. AS Diddy you want to know what % your followups are guaranteed, and be prepared to bait out airdodges, or avoid characters that have powerful air - air options that will beat your up air.

• No clue why but this Diddy did NOT use down tilt. It is an amazing move, combos into itself at low %, and frame traps OR forces a jump at mid to high %. It outranges MOST grab ranges when spaced well, and is fast enough that you can avoid things like dash grab or shield drop punishes. It can "combo" into fair at certain % (not sure if true combo, but Fair beats them if they jump OR do nothing, and the other option is airdodge.)

---

Everything Zero said is great advice AGAINST him. Gimping his up B is crucial and can net easy early kills, ESPECIALLY if you can force him to charge it in an unfavourable position.

AS Diddy, if you have to recover low, your best bet IF IT'S A SLANTED EDGE (Battlefield, FD), go UNDER the stage and Up B STRAIGHT VERTICAL. You will ride the ledge, it is very hard and unsafe for most characters to go down here to punish you, and you're protected from items / downward projectiles. However be careful, and I always recommend mixing it up and keeping things unpredictable.

On stages with flat walls, you can generally avoid up B altogether, and recover 90% of the time with side B (you get side B back when hit in this game), wall cling -> wall jump -> double jump. This also lets you use Uair as an air to air as it beats A LOT of moves that they may try to be gimping you with. If you have to Up B, either ride the wall at a 45 degree angle inward and be ready to tech, or mix it up and don't let them hit you. You have a lot of freedom with your up B in this one, so abuse it.

While using Diddy's Bananas against him is crucial, try to remember that many people may have weak / predictable item play. AT high levels, most players will be good with it, but it isn't something regularly practiced and you can definitely see patterns that can be abused. With a banana in hand, remember that your opponent can NOT use their normals until they throw the banana, and many characters are actually LIMITED by holding an item. Diddy has an amazing special moveset with neutral B (for ranged pressure and camping) and side B (for mixups and punishes) while still holding a banana in hand, whereas characters like Fox, while they can laser, are locked into the banana until they throw it.

You rarely want to be doing super raw side B's from neutral, but if you are, and If your opponent is good at sidestepping the side B, see if changing it to the kick works. Some sidesteps are quick and will still get hit by the kick as they finish, even if they dodged the grab. You can change it to the kick at any point during the arc. Be cautious with side B though, as it is very easily punishable. Also, after you land a grab -> attack, make sure you do an auto-canceled Dair at the end to eliminate the landing lag of the side B attack.

Empty hop -> dash Grab or Empty hop, dash behind pivot grab (for people who are prone to spotdodging) are great options that play into Diddy's amazing grab game. Remember that a grab generally means 20-30% for free early on, and AMAZING positional advantage at all points in the match.

 

[GroundZero996]

Copy pasting this from Reddit. It's in response to Zero's video guide where he talks a lot about Diddy's weaknesses. I go in depth on a lot of the points he brings up on how to BEAT Diddy, and help explain how aspiring Kongs can avoid these mistakes in their play.


Video in question: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cCbybYq_7F4

He's basically saying what I've been thinking. Diddy Kong's upB is so easy to punish, and the second you knock off the barrels he's 100% dead.

 

[Lex Jewthor]

He's basically saying what I've been thinking. Diddy Kong's upB is so easy to punish, and the second you knock off the barrels he's 100% dead.

Exactly, which is why you want to recovery in positions that either avoid using the barrels (recovering high with monkey flip / double jump) OR recover in positions that leave you protected (recovering underneath slanted stages, or hugging walls so you can tech them easily).

Or, most importantly, use Diddy's strengths to avoid being in an offstage position in the first place.

 

[Vyrnx]

Sorry to be stupid.
What is popgun canceling and why is it so important?

 

[Lex Jewthor]

Sorry to be stupid.
What is popgun canceling and why is it so important?

Asking questions isn't stupid. Asking questions (especially in existing threads as opposed to making new ones) is smart!

Popgun cancelling is when you press L or R to cancel your popgun charge. By itself this isn't TOO terribly useful, but if you combine it with a B-reverse (which lets you reverse your momentum as well), it lets you change direction mid air with popgun, then cancel the popgun and act out of it.

In this game it's a bit more difficult to popgun cancel without airdodging (which is super laggy), which is what most of hte previous discussion has been on.

 

[GroundZero996]

Exactly, which is why you want to recovery in positions that either avoid using the barrels (recovering high with monkey flip / double jump) OR recover in positions that leave you protected (recovering underneath slanted stages, or hugging walls so you can tech them easily).

Or, most importantly, use Diddy's strengths to avoid being in an offstage position in the first place.

Right. Just to be clear I'm not saying Diddy is trash because of these "weaknesses". He's just not strong in these areas. The only thing I think he could've used some help with is kill power. Setting up a kill move can be very difficult again good player who will punish you for fishing.

In this game it's a bit more difficult to popgun cancel without airdodging (which is super laggy), which is what most of hte previous discussion has been on.

I've been trying this and finding that using L to cancel seems to feel a little easier. Could totally be in my head, but *shrug*, whatever works!

 

[Seleir]

Guys combo with diddy? SOMEONE that show me almost the combos that diddy can do?

 

[Seleir]

And also how can i do the B reverse?

 

[GroundZero996]

Guys combo with diddy? SOMEONE that show me almost the combos that diddy can do?

Check out this thread for Diddy Kong videos.

 

[Hoenn]

Diddy's recovery really isn't as bad as it seems. It's still bad, but if you recover low on stages with yoshi's island walls, a double jump and a wall jump will give you A LOT of height.

A lot of the time, I don't even have to use up B or barely use it

 

[GOofyGV]

So guys, I really tend to like Nair. Idk why I just really like the move, Pretty good range, not to much landing lag, pretty good startup and hitboxes and it lasts for as long as it needs to last. I find it helpfull to land with it as a mixup because People expect other options and it has good combo potential.
I can follow up with Uair, Fair, Bair or even another nair. I think you can actually combo Nair into Uair after the Dthrow>Uair stopped working

thoughts?

 

[Jahordon]

So guys, I really tend to like Nair. Idk why I just really like the move, Pretty good range, not to much landing lag, pretty good startup and hitboxes and it lasts for as long as it needs to last. I find it helpfull to land with it as a mixup because People expect other options and it has good combo potential.
I can follow up with Uair, Fair, Bair or even another nair. I think you can actually combo Nair into Uair after the Dthrow>Uair stopped working

thoughts?

Yup, I use it as a mix up when they are going to air dodge the upair. I think it lasts longer and frame traps, and it keeps them in the air.

 

[Seleir]

Guys i have some mistake with reverse B side cancel.
the reverse is ok but i can't do cancel, i don't know the timing or how can i do

 

[GOofyGV]

Guys i have some mistake with reverse B side cancel.
the reverse is ok but i can't do cancel, i don't know the timing or how can i do

The timing is pretty tough, you have to be fast. I don't know the exact frames but iirc you have to cancel it before frame 4. someone else can probably correct me on that.

 

[Hoenn]

I really like using diddy kong's Up B in really campy matchups like toon link
You take small percent and they have to worry about the rogue barrels hitting them, then they get scared to throw projectiles/ hide in shield and you get to approach.

 

[Azazel]

I'm Am going to try to explain peanut cancel.
You can cancel peanut gun charging frames with shield button and not necessarily air dodge. when you press shield Peanut gun cancels which is instant and buffers an air dodge. by pressing shield during the initial frames where you cannot cancel because you can only cancel charging frames, Air dodge is not buffered (9 frame buffer) and thus you cancel without air dodge. For diddy you may simply Hold shield even before peanut gun and still cancel without buffering an air dodge. This is unique to peanut gun. I think i can explain why.

Holding shield before peanut gun can cancel peanut gun while holding shield before any other chargable move does not cancel it. Peanut gun has initial frames that cannot be canceled whilst most moves' charge can instantly cancel because of no delay to charge. it was most likely made this way to avoid this situation:

if someone was holding shield and pressed B it would yield nothing since it would instantly cancel and this could potentially be frustrating.

But Peanut gun has startup frames so implementing in peanut this was not necessary.

One charge cancelable move, sheik's needles, aren't necessarily canceled by air dodge but rather there is no way to NOT buffer an air dodge while airborn.
Sheik can actually needle cancel and buffer pick up items(w/o airdodge via GRAB)/ throw items instead of air dodge. Sheik does have start up frames but can only cancel when charging frames are out. Pressing shield before charging frames yields nothing. Heres a break down.
Start up frames (I believe Can't buffer cancel)-> charging frames (Can now cancel) -> cancel (instantaneous,Shield input buffered)

Though for the most part such as wii fit trainer, Robin and Lucario, from my experimentation, can only use air dodge.

 

[Azazel]

I find that when I have a stock lead instead of using grab to aerial (guaranteed 15%) for punishing early percents (<60%) I tried to go for Rocket Barrel which does combo into its self (24-28%, 10% initial blast or 6% flying + 18% boom) at the cost of 5% to diddy. I find that its good when in the lead because you are not fighting for percent lead anymore, just simply rack up damage and rocket barrel is damage and about as easy to land (yes you can banana).

 

[DtJ S2n]

I find that when I have a stock lead instead of using grab to aerial (guaranteed 15%) for punishing early percents (<60%) I tried to go for Rocket Barrel which does combo into its self (24-28%, 10% initial blast or 6% flying + 18% boom) at the cost of 5% to diddy. I find that its good when in the lead because you are not fighting for percent lead anymore, just simply rack up damage and rocket barrel is damage and about as easy to land (yes you can banana).

Grab is an easier and more consistent punish just because of how fast it is and that it beats shield. Also a whole ton harder to punish if you do screw up. At very low % you can usually get d-throw to 2 u-airs guaranteed for 23%. D-throw to F-air is 19% with no pummels. And that's not counting any follow ups you get, because both of those leave you in very advantageous positions.

Rocketbarrel Blast is a decent punish but I would never use it in a situation I could get a grab instead.

 

[Luigi player]

So guys, I really tend to like Nair. Idk why I just really like the move, Pretty good range, not to much landing lag, pretty good startup and hitboxes and it lasts for as long as it needs to last. I find it helpfull to land with it as a mixup because People expect other options and it has good combo potential.
I can follow up with Uair, Fair, Bair or even another nair. I think you can actually combo Nair into Uair after the Dthrow>Uair stopped working

thoughts?

Yeah I've used landing nair to uair too, it's really fun.

It only deals 6% damage though, so it's not the best thing to rack up damage with, which is why I usually find myself using other aerials lately. I think landing nair is the only situation where I use it atm...
nair 6
fair 12 (weak 10)
bair 9
uair 8
dair 13
[ training mode %s ]

 

[DtJ S2n]

Yeah I've used landing nair to uair too, it's really fun.

It only deals 6% damage though, so it's not the best thing to rack up damage with, which is why I usually find myself using other aerials lately. I think landing nair is the only situation where I use it atm...
nair 6
fair 12 (weak 10)
bair 9
uair 8
dair 13
[ training mode %s ]

To add to this, landing N-air has the second least lag of our aerials, after b-air. It's significantly faster to recover than U-air, and b-air isn't always easy to get a follow up off of, or you're in the wrong position to get it out. Short hop b-air into n-air works sometimes and that can be a very good combo starter.


https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1uwEvYc82aUOUJ22_NE_oK3LlmUglglrwN0_A_aiTKlM/edit#gid=0
(Frame data according to this doc)

 

[GOofyGV]

I am wondering if anybody actually uses Dair after a sideB grab to land without lag. It's so cheap when you think about it

 

[Player-1]

I am wondering if anybody actually uses Dair after a sideB grab to land without lag. It's so cheap when you think about it

for whatever reason, dair won't auto cancel out of the side-b grab state

 

[GOofyGV]

for whatever reason, dair won't auto cancel out of the side-b grab state

really? I never actually got to test it, thats pretty weird. . .
I just came up with that idea

 

[Fangblade]

Hello there. Does anyone have any links to videos of some good Diddys? He seemed a lot different than in Brawl so I didn't pick him back up at first but I would like to know how to play him right.

Also, not sure if everyone has heard but regarding the update 1.04 coming out later this month, it's suppose to change game-play in the 3DS version to match the WiiU. Which means, 'Airdoge-z drop,' not sure of the term Diddys use (TL call it Invincibombing) will be making a return. Toss canceling will also be removed so y'all don't have to be jelly

Edit: Nevermind I found the video thread, don't know how I missed it.

 

[DeLux]

iBanana already was a thing in the game out of the box.

 

[Framerate]

So I was messing around with Link and I discovered that jump-cancelled tosses are in this game. I figured this was relevant to the Diddy meta, so here's a link to my post about it: http://smashboards.com/threads/jump-cancelled-glide-toss.377047/

 

[Player-1]

Jump cancelled tosses have been known to be in the game since the best buy build

 

[Azazel]

I Feel that Diddy kong is strong. He can rack up damage fast

• dThrow > uAir strings
• nAir > uAir strings
• Banana > Grab.
• dTilt(when walking dTilt slides as well) > Grab.

and Can convert many moves into kill moves

• dTilt >fAir
• JCThrow banana > fSmash,
• peanut > fAir,
• dThrow > uAir (can be vectored and whiff, though battle field platforms at lower percent is inescapable),
• nAir > uAir

 

[LiL.Will]

Vids of Leffen vs Armada in GFs ( dittos)

 

[an1bal]

Is anyone concerned that the upcomingpatch might nerf diddys dthrow? a lot of people are calling for it

 

[TriforceOfChozo]

I have a question for you guys.
How do you guys counter spammy projectiles online? I just keep getting owned because I can't approach w/o getting hit by projectiles. I find it really hard to dodge them online. Any suggestions?