• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Diddy's New Tier Placement - Agree or Disagree?

Do you agree with the placement?


  • Total voters
    23

Akzomp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
39
Location
Cedar City, Utah
NNID
AKG_Akzomp
With the release of the first "official" Smash 4 tier list made by the Smash 4 Back Roomer team, we have learned a significant amount of information about the viability of the game's playable cast (tournament and even match-up-wise in a way). This, of course, has also revealed Diddy Kong's 1.1.3 tier placement. He sits at 9th place, after Mario and in front of Meta Knight.

What do you all think of this placement and the placements of other characters around him, and do you agree with the general placements of the characters on this tier list as a whole?

I personally feel like this is a good place to put him, as nerfs hit him hard, but minor buffs kept him alive and still more than viable, with mostly good or half-decent match-ups up until around a few of the top four or five characters.

There are a few placements on this tier list that did surprise me, but, as I am not exactly an expert at determining how specifically a character may stack up, there are obviously good reasons for the decisions of these placements.

EDIT: If you have the time, it would be cool if you could reply to this thread with your opinion!
 
Last edited:

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
With the release of the first "official" Smash 4 tier list made by the Smash 4 Back Roomer team, we have learned a significant amount of information about the viability of the game's playable cast (tournament and even match-up-wise in a way). This, of course, has also revealed Diddy Kong's 1.1.3 tier placement. He sits at 9th place, after Mario and in front of Meta Knight.

What do you all think of this placement and the placements of other characters around him, and do you agree with the general placements of the characters on this tier list as a whole?

I personally feel like this is a good place to put him, as nerfs hit him hard, but minor buffs kept him alive and still more than viable, with mostly good or half-decent match-ups up until around a few of the top four or five characters.

There are a few placements on this tier list that did surprise me, but, as I am not exactly an expert at determining how specifically a character may stack up, there are obviously good reasons for the decisions of these placements.
As the meta grows, he will probably drop a bit. But he is in a pretty good spot. I don't see him moving higher then 6th or lower then 12th.
 

Akzomp

Smash Cadet
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
39
Location
Cedar City, Utah
NNID
AKG_Akzomp
As the meta grows, he will probably drop a bit. But he is in a pretty good spot. I don't see him moving higher then 6th or lower then 12th.
You bring up a good point with meta evolution. It makes sense for him not to grow much and potentially drop a little, since he is already a very explored character due to his pre-patch viability and good current stance.
 

Lylo

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
54
Location
France
NNID
Chompypy
3DS FC
0490-8557-3079
Completely agree. He has too many MU that wont allow him to rise higher
 

AvengerV

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 16, 2015
Messages
148
Location
South Florida
NNID
AvengerV
I personally think :4diddy: and :4metaknight: are too low and :4pikachu: and :4ryu: are too high. Why is it that the characters with more results get underrated? I honestly don't understand. ZeRo's :4diddy: just won Pax South beating VoiD's :4sheik: twice 3-0 ing him in Winner's Finals and 3-1 ing him in Grand Finals. Abadango's:4metaknight: beat Nairo's :4zss: twice as well in the japanese tournament this past weekend.

Just what I think.
 

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
They should have the placements be based off of matchups, which they're not doing. :/ I feel the only top ten character Diddy Kong beats is Meta knight. Anyone else, I feel he either goes even with or loses.
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
They should have the placements be based off of matchups, which they're not doing. :/ I feel the only top ten character Diddy Kong beats is Meta knight. Anyone else, I feel he either goes even with or loses.
I believe that ZeRo has said Diddy beats ZSS. He had some pretty good points to, and it makes some sense. However, he is ZeRo, and godlike at Sm4sh, so he could just be too good.
 

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
I believe that ZeRo has said Diddy beats ZSS. He had some pretty good points to, and it makes some sense. However, he is ZeRo, and godlike at Sm4sh, so he could just be too good.
@TSM ZeRo also feels Diddy Kong beats Fox and every other Diddy Kong main I know of seems to not be a fan of that matchup at all. However, the fact that ZeRo's opinion of Diddy's matchups is better than a lot of people's opinions while also having results to back it up suggests he understands Diddy's matchups way better than anyone else. I personally view ZSS and Fox as even matchups, but I'm probably wrong if the best Diddy Kong main in the world feels differently. No other Diddy Kong player is able to figure out matchups as well as him. That's why a player like @Dabuz views ZeRo's Diddy Kong as scarier than his Shiek despite the fact Dabuz mollywops every other Diddy Kong player he plays since patch 1.0.8. Seriously, I don't think a Diddy Kong has been able to take as much as a game off of him in tournament since that patch. In terms in matchups, this is my view of Diddy Kong's matchup spread for the characters that made top 13.

Shiek: 40:60
ZSS: 50:50
Rosalina: 40:60
Ryu: 50:50
Pikachu: 40:60
Sonic: 50:50
Fox: 50:50
Mario: 50:50
Diddy Kong: N/A
Meta Knight: 55:45
Villager: 40:60
Cloud: 45:55
Ness: 45:55

They're all doable matchups, but I feel Diddy Kong only truly beats Meta Knight because he exploits his limited neutral so well with banana. I also feel Diddy's only terrible matchups for the characters that made it into top 13 are Shiek, Rosalina, Pikachu, and Villager. Lousy matchups, but doable. Villager and Cloud should've been placed in top ten for the tier list IMO. Basically one good matchup, five even matchups, two bad matchups, and four terrible matchups. Not too bad for a character that has received seventeen nerfs. While I do view Ness as the winner in the Diddy Kong vs. Ness matchup, I definitely feel Diddy Kong is the better character of the two. Ness is the only character listed as top 13 I feel has two matchups that are probably worse than 60:40 because of how much both Rosalina and Villager can exploit that character's recovery.
 
Last edited:

Jaylowww

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 23, 2014
Messages
42
Location
Melbourne, Australia
NNID
thatdudejono
3DS FC
5086-1719-4466
They should have the placements be based off of matchups, which they're not doing. :/ I feel the only top ten character Diddy Kong beats is Meta knight. Anyone else, I feel he either goes even with or loses.
IMO it shouldn't be solely based off matchups (although it plays an important role in determining tier lists). I've once read somewhere (a source I can't remember anymore unfortunately) that tier lists are drafted with three criteria:
  • Matchup spread: I also agree that Diddy's MU spread against the top tiers are lackluster, going roughly even against half the cast with only 1-2 winning MUs. That said, it's more than what can be said for a lot of characters.
  • Metagame potential/development: Diddy's metagame has been explored thoroughly during the hoo hah era when he was winning more than half of the tournaments during that patch. I feel that other characters, such as MK and Ryu, have way more unexplored potential (with regards to incredibly optimised punishes) and as such, Diddy has less metagame potential compared to them.
  • Tournament results: This is the biggest clincher. In spite of numerous patches, two of which contained Diddy nerfs, he still has one of the highest top 8 finishes in tournaments. According to smashboards tournament data, Diddy has the 4th highest top 8 finishes in tournaments, and second highest tournament wins, starting from patch 1.1.2. That's an incredible amount of placings from a character who has lackluster MUs and metagame potential.
Overall, I agree with his location within the tier list. His exact placing does not matter as much as his position in the tiers, and this is what is mostly accurate within this list.
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
Remember that they took the votes of 50 something BR members, so this first one isn't going to be as accurate as the next couple. Also, I have never found Foxes too difficult with Diddy, must just be player preference.
 

W.A.C.

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
738
Remember that they took the votes of 50 something BR members, so this first one isn't going to be as accurate as the next couple. Also, I have never found Foxes too difficult with Diddy, must just be player preference.
Both MVD and Angel Cortes have ranted about Fox in the past. Jtails sometimes Fox dittos people because of issues he has against certain Fox players. Denti was shocked when I told him ZeRo felt Diddy won that matchup. So that's four players who have notable results with Diddy Kong who don't feel strongly about the matchup.
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
Both MVD and Angel Cortes have ranted about Fox in the past. Jtails sometimes Fox dittos people because of issues he has against certain Fox players. Denti was shocked when I told him ZeRo felt Diddy won that matchup. So that's four players who have notable results with Diddy Kong who don't feel strongly about the matchup.
It must just be ZeRo then. And his opinion could have changed after he started living with Larry Lurr and Xzax.
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,961
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
I don't think Diddy fares that badly against :4fox:,:4ness: and even :4pikachu:. The only thing we need to keep in mind with the :4pikachu: matchup is that Pika is too small to hit effectively with Side B. :4ness: isn't that bad if you are aware of spacing against him, then again, Ness is one of my secondaries so I know how to fight against him. I'd say at worst it's 50/50. :4fox: I also consider as 50/50, because as Diddy it's just far easier to land a KO against Fox. Yes he ranks up damage uncomfortably against us, but we're still winning neutral, so grabs should come easier for us, so should ranking up damage. We can beat his N Air with F Air, and F Air in general is great for spacing against Fox trying to rush in.

Also 9th place is borderline insulting for a character as :4diddy: with so many results in the past, and the only character who effectively beats high level :4sheik: players. Dang it ZeRo, throw out your Diddy more often! I am also a strong believer that :4diddy: beats :4zss:, if only 55-45. I also think we might have a slight advantage over :4sonic:, and even :4ryu:. Am not really sure why :4cloud: is viewed as a bad matchup either... Anyone can elaborate?

Personally, I'd place :4diddy: 4th or 5th. His matchups against the absolute Top Tiers outside of :rosalina: and his results should bring him to that spot.
 

Sonicninja115

Experiment. Innovate. Improve.
Joined
Jul 8, 2015
Messages
2,429
I don't think Diddy fares that badly against :4fox:,:4ness: and even :4pikachu:. The only thing we need to keep in mind with the :4pikachu: matchup is that Pika is too small to hit effectively with Side B. :4ness: isn't that bad if you are aware of spacing against him, then again, Ness is one of my secondaries so I know how to fight against him. I'd say at worst it's 50/50. :4fox: I also consider as 50/50, because as Diddy it's just far easier to land a KO against Fox. Yes he ranks up damage uncomfortably against us, but we're still winning neutral, so grabs should come easier for us, so should ranking up damage. We can beat his N Air with F Air, and F Air in general is great for spacing against Fox trying to rush in.

Also 9th place is borderline insulting for a character as :4diddy: with so many results in the past, and the only character who effectively beats high level :4sheik: players. Dang it ZeRo, throw out your Diddy more often! I am also a strong believer that :4diddy: beats :4zss:, if only 55-45. I also think we might have a slight advantage over :4sonic:, and even :4ryu:. Am not really sure why :4cloud: is viewed as a bad matchup either... Anyone can elaborate?

Personally, I'd place :4diddy: 4th or 5th. His matchups against the absolute Top Tiers outside of :rosalina: and his results should bring him to that spot.
I believe he beats ZSS as well. And ZeRo has said that on occasion as well. I think he was placed that low because ZeRo is the only one that does well nationally.
 

TTYK

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 2, 2014
Messages
352
Location
Oregon
NNID
EJ_Locke
Is the sheik match up really (diddy kong) 40:60 (sheik). I picked up diddy as a secondary mainly for the sheik match up and it seems to me he has a better match up than that.
 

Lylo

Smash Cadet
Joined
May 19, 2015
Messages
54
Location
France
NNID
Chompypy
3DS FC
0490-8557-3079
Hell no.
Imo onstage diddy wins, offstage sheik wins.
Overall sheik wins but no way 60:40
 

Diddy Kong

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Dec 8, 2004
Messages
25,961
Switch FC
SW-1597-979602774
I don't think it's 40-60 either. We have one of the best matchups against Sheik, if not the absolute best out of the cast. I think it's nowhere less than 45-55 for us.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
can anyone tell me thoughts on the corrin, marth, and yoshi matchups?
 
Top Bottom