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DG's Guide to Lucario Shield Pressure

Darkgun

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 1, 2013
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Original image used to make banner by and (c) Reji-x of DeviantArt

We don't have much current documentation on Lucario's moveset, and primarily only discussion of strategy and combos (in which opinions and execution seem to vary drastically from player to player, an inadvertent testament to how open ended Lucario play can be). I think it is time we address something that is a bit more consistent versus most all of the cast.

A note about this thread: This guide will not define a set in stone, "this is how you should always apply shield pressure" method of execution. Every situation is different, as is player preference and experience, and thus this guide is more about understanding the details of shield pressure application.

Another note: As of this writing, ASC is being assumed at 14 frames (as tested using PM 3.5's debug mode). I'm going to be honest in that I actually think ASC is a bit faster (closer to 10 frames), but every once in a while I find a new number (16, 10, 8, 14, respectively) so I can't say I am 100% sure how long the darned thing lasts. Also, much of the frame data involving shield stun is going to be based upon this until more current data is obtained to confirm.

IMPORTANT: Due to the recent change to Aura Sphere in 3.6, some information on frame data relating to the move will not be accurate.

__________________________________

-----Concept-----
Lucario is good at applying shield pressure. Good enough to create the illusion of spacie level shield pressure. And this is all made possible by OHC and how positive on hit a perfect OHC can be. Additionally, Lucario has the ability to mix up hit timing on shield, punish some Out of Shield options on reaction, and even cross opponents during shield pressure with attacks or specials. On top of that, Lucario has the potential to create a genuinely dangerous shield pressure situation.

However, it is important to note that inevitably, with some matchup leeway, none of Lucario's shield pressure is actually safe on shield, and a mindful opponent can easily turn this strength into incredibly serious punishes off of reactions alone.

As such, it is important while applying shield pressure to consider two main tactics or concepts:
• Did I/How often have I used a specific combo string on block?
• What situations during shield pressure is my opponent punishing?

---Block String Variety---
The saying "Variety is the spice of life" hopefully doesn't fall on deaf ears around here. It is effective to divide Lucario's shield pressure into phases based upon the link in the combo chain used, as each link in the chain usually has a one or more safer escape options, and a few have riskier, yet more punishing OoS options. Since raw attack options are not nearly enough to lock a shielding opponent down, changing the execution timing of their out of shield is a solid way to make their life miserable. For example...

DA(early)>dtilt(close)>usmash(1st)>ASC. This is possibly one of the fastest block string options Lucario has [format: startup-adv or startup/adv on block] [6/+6>+1/+5>5/+5>+5/0]. In this specific case, assuming perfect execution on both player's parts and standard spacing, the opponent is guaranteed...
>To be locked in shield for DA>dtilt.
>A roll/spotdodge after dtilt (4 frame margin of error) or OoS option of 4 frames or less (5 frame if 1 frame invincibility)
>A roll/spotdodge, grab(7frame) or OoS option of 9 frames or less.

If the opponent fails to leave shield within 14 frames of leaving hitstun (last move applying hitstun was usmash), Lucario can jab or dtilt their shield and start another block string.

While this is a good string, the more you use it on shield, the more time the opponent has to determine when it is safe to act, so looping this over and over on shield (a bad habit that I have, for example) can get you punished. Instead, it is usually safer and more rewarding to opt to a more responsive and inconsistently timed shield pressure since gaps in shield stun can lead your opponent to try and escape pressure at an unsafe point in the shield string.


---Responsive Shield Strings---
This, after a time in the match, is how you decide what options to use during a shield string, and it usually comes from simple observations of your opponent.
>Are they waiting until ASC to react with a grab? Use FP early in the string.
>Do they spot dodge after every tilt? Tilt>ASC, use ctilt, skip tilts and charge smashes.
>Do they opt to punish after DA with fast OoS options? Tip with dtilt, use DT during shield strings, trap opponents in shield by charging Aura Sphere over them.
>Do they try to grab between jab1 and jab2? dtilt.
>Are they CCing after failed OoS punishes? Poke shield with tipper DA or dtilt, fsmash, or bair.
Noted, these are examples, and that most situations call for a unique solution.


----The Opponent's Options----
All characters technically have six Out of Shield options [Drop Shield, Roll, Spot Dodge, Grab, Jump, Shield Drop], and while some of these are more or less viable on a character specific level, when applying shield pressure, a Lucario player has to take into consideration what options apply to the situation and when.

As mentioned before, the options an opponent has vary from from each link in the chain, with some exceptions. In general...
• The opponent can spot dodge after every attack on shield. (Exceptions usually involve move>dtilt or Aura Sphere.)
• The opponent can roll after every attack on shield. (See above.)
• The opponent can (though the window of opportunity is quite small) grab... [This is assuming standard grab (7 frames) and effective spacing.]
>just after smashes.
>just before dsmash/fsmash.
>between jab1 and jab2.
>between jab2 and jab3.
>during ASC. [Note: Though I cannot say I understand why, there is some point during ASC in which Lucario cannot be grabbed. If someone can figure that out, it would be super amazing.]
>in some cases during DT startup.
The above does not consider OoS options, however in many cases a character's viable OoS option is as fast or faster than their grab, so it is safe to assume that the opponent can OoS at similar points.

Your opponent's options are relevant primarily so that you can respond, should they use one correctly. This rolls back to responsive shield pressure a bit in that by taking note of how they escape shield pressure, you can better cover their retreat, either with a solid punish, by forcing them back into shield, or by taking positional advantage.


----Dangerous Shield Pressure----
Quite a few characters have threatening shield pressure, or like Lucario can create the illusion of threat. However, Lucario has a single, truly dangerous shield pressure option: charging Aura Sphere on shield. Assuming good execution by the Lucario player, setting up this situation could potentially always net Lucario results. Due to ASC, if the opponent gets hit, rolls, spot dodges, shield shuffles, crouch cancels, or SDI/ASDIs out of the charge hitbox, Lucario can effectively link smashes, tilts, shield CC and combo breaking options, set up grabs or aerials, etc. While this is a difficult situation to create, it is a good idea to always try to remember its existence, and take advantage of the rare cases in which it occurs.


----Human Error----
Now for something that shouldn't traditionally considered [in my opinion, at least]. Optimally, a player will never make a mistake, and in the case of Lucario, this means that all shield pressure will be frame perfect unless decided otherwise. However, this is, and will likely remain, rarely the case. Additionally, in an optimal situation for an opponent under Lucario shield pressure, an attempt to escape will be performed as soon as possible so as to have as much time to act as possible, but once again: we are not capable of maintaining tool assisted execution.

So how does human error effect each player in a shield string situation?
• Lucario
Assuming the Lucario player inputs a move later than intended, the opponent may be able to buffer a roll or spot-dodge out of a normally inescapable situation, or in more significant cases connect with a grab. The time a Lucario player has to react to escapes from shield pressure can also be low enough for the opponent to respond or take an advantageous position. An early input can also lead to more significant problems, resulting in missed cancels and thus significant endlag.

• Opponent
Late or early inputs by an opponent often lead to further shield pressure, or their OoS options being beaten outright. With dissimilar shield pressure strings, a Lucario player can more easily create these situations.


____________________________________________

So some things here. First, if I left anything out or anyone has a suggestion for what I should add or discuss, mention it down below. Also, I am currently unsure about shield shuffling, as it is both a fairly unfamiliar mechanic to me and rarely used in my area thus far, so my experience with it is limited. I'll also confess that I tried to avoid frame data, since we do not have a current list (not that there is much different between the 2.5b frames and now) and I am somewhat of a lazy bones. Hope you folks find this useful.
 
Last edited:

Darkgun

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Jelinek

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I've been practicing jabx2--> u-smash--> ASC when I'm super close to them. But u-smash ASC is soo good... well sometimes anyways
 

Zoa

Smash Ace
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Hey, Darkgun. Are you considering adding the information from the post back in January? Aside from ASC the post is still relevant to Lucario's options on shield.
 

Jacob29

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 17, 2013
Messages
530
Question.

Can you shield grab Lucario's dash attack?

I was testing this out and it seems like no you cannot if they cancel it into an f-tilt. But you seem to know what you are talking about and my testing measures were... awkward at best.
 

Stryker

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 29, 2014
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Eastern Canada
Question.

Can you shield grab Lucario's dash attack?

I was testing this out and it seems like no you cannot if they cancel it into an f-tilt. But you seem to know what you are talking about and my testing measures were... awkward at best.
Just in case noone gets back to you, I've heard that ftilt beats some characters grabs.
The real juicy bit is that if you dtilt after DA then you hit shield grabs. But they can grab after your dtilt.
 

Darkgun

Smash Journeyman
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Apr 1, 2013
Messages
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Location
Nowhere Land, Tx
Hey, Darkgun. Are you considering adding the information from the post back in January? Aside from ASC the post is still relevant to Lucario's options on shield.
I'm currently collecting my thoughts as to how to adjust this guide based on the new change and the mentality adjustment. I wouldn't wait up for me, since I'm pretty slow at these things, though. ^^;

On the post from January, something not noted in the linked post is that in many cases, rolling (3 frames of vulnerability) in some cases move the character during the vulnerability period, meaning while the opponent may indeed be vulnerable when the grabbox appears, the may not necessarily be in a grabbable position. That said, this is super position and character dependent. Spot dodge after ftilt is indeed very much not safe though, as typically, characters will be hit by the burst.

Question.

Can you shield grab Lucario's dash attack?

I was testing this out and it seems like no you cannot if they cancel it into an f-tilt. But you seem to know what you are talking about and my testing measures were... awkward at best.
Assuming you cancel into... pretty much anything but ES, AS, or fsmash on a strong hit(6 frames of shield stun immediately, you cannot shield grab Lucario's DA. On weak hit(4 frames of shield stun), you cannot safely use specials, dsmash, or fsmash on immediate execution. Utilt is unique in that your position has a significant effect in determining what frame a hitbox connects on. In most cases, for example, utilt after weak hit DA on shield will be unsafe, but on strong hit, a deep DA on shield>utilt will lock your opponent completely in shield stun if you connect as early as possible.
 
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