DGames Summer Mafia Bash - Day 2 Begins. Deadline Day 2 begins - Deadline 8:00 A.M. CST Monday 6/24

[#HBC | Ryker]

This phase desperately needs Nabe and Spak.

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to the store now. Possibly the gym too, I need to do gym stuff.

 

[JTB]

I have a stream to get to soon, so I'll have to finish this up later Ran. Right now, I don't have any interest in reading Jexs to allow Spak to add his own content and Nabe for obvious reasons. Here's what I have for FF right now and will finish reading up on Rockin/Uto later

Spoiler: FrozenFlame

His play for D1 has largely consisted of just providing comments on things going on as opposed to asking questions to pursue his reads. In particular, he votes on Jexs in #267, then swaps off without doing anything to push that read in #452 (which was onto Maven, an inactive slot). Then he does the same thing regarding me, voting me #813 through the end of the day without addressing me directly either. In #1050, he talks about how I'm a gut read and the Jexs wagon was not going anywhere, but as stated again, he did nothing to push Jexs and appears to just be jumping around to whatever wagon seems safe without contributing.

#453 is a really bad post imo because he avoids giving his reads on these players, instead opting to them being people to pressure. I'm not sure what to take away from this post other than FF setting up a reference post in case a wagon pops up on one of those people and joining it.

I think his #490 greatly twists my play that game to fit the narrative he's portraying in his scum read on me. Without directly interacting with me, he has no reason to believe my questions are "half assed" and using the number of reads I have against my slot is just exaggareting his own read.

His comments on Doops are...strange? He agrees w/ Marshy in #267 about the FOS on Doops, but also states he reads Doops are town in the same post, then backpedals later to null when questioned on it. Doops also doesn't appear on his pressure list. FF seems hesistant to have a solid read on Doops.

I'm okay w/ Vote: FF to get my vote out there

 

[Rockin]

I also think you aren't fully looking at my slot because I've also done much more analysis than just looking at those who seem to disagree with me or have negative things to say about me. My problem with Kary was he dropped his Ryker case. That certainly doesn't fit in your criteria of people who are saying negative things about me or disagreeing with me. So Rockin, who's scum to you today?

The problem with your slot/analysis is that it's full of theorycrafting and meta, and the negative response you recieve (or disagreements) makes it so that you build cases based on emotions, and not through the fact/statements that you feel _______ is scummy. Thus, it makes it difficult for me to take your points seriously.

Does that make Ran scum in your eyes at this point?

On surface base level, yes. If we were to take away the big AtE of him wanting replace out because of what marshy harshly said (as well as some others that chimed in), they would be pretty null. They posted a lot, but again with all the mixture of theorycrafting and meta, it's hard for me to see them as either town or scum. I will say however that the playstyle itself is scummy, cause it relies on others chiming in and making the fire bigger (which is why when that happened with Tom, it didn't go much anywhere cause...no one really thought Tom was scummy. It being TvT or TvS was debatable as well imo). Not to mention in D2, there seems to be a gear shift with Ranmaru where it looks like he's trying to take the helm of the conversation (basically him being more aggressive and demanding).

I wouldn't mind Lore go as well. During the whole UP vs Ryker claim, it felt like Lore was trying to find another person to tackle and lynch. I would need to reread the exchanges again when I come back from work later today.

 

[Lore]

Gorf has clearly outlined other concerns in the thread. He's the one who originally got me looking at FF.

Fair, it looks like I was wrong on that note then. I'm still a bit irritated that asking Gorf for reads was an issue in the first place, but my framing was completely wrong, it seems. He's not tunneling. I suspect a bit of OMGUS on my own part there, tbh, and I hate to admit it.

1) your tunneling of utopian was like completely predicated on surface level scumhunting, yea. i dont see what youre trying to say here

2) your rockin progression for the Day seems to be as follows:

-you loosely connect rockin to your doop + poyzin + pythag team, but having zero real read on him outside of that. then put your rockin reread on the backburner because of how contingent it is on doop + poyzin + pythag
-you post this:

which is a surface level analysis of rockins play with the conclusion of him being "weird" but uncertain with where youre leaning

and picking out rockin keeping his vote on jtb, which again, not really impressive analysis. i guess its something tho

-your rockin vote at 1660 with the above being your only mention of "detailed reasoning" (feel free to correct me if im wrong)
-ragevote poyzin and then revote rockin

and thats it. rockins a ****in easy slot to ping anyway, and everything youve brought to the table doesnt have much weight

3) ryker and ran reads are incredibly easy to make and far from unique

so yes i can confidently say that your content has overall been extremely surface level based

Before I reply, thanks for breaking up this post. It did huge benefits for readability on my end, and I truly appreciate it.

1) If my Utopian read on D1 plus my D2 read based on Doop connections (with both detailed analysis on Doop and Pythag within that context) is surface level, I don't know what you want from me.

2) My original Rockin read was 100% based on the fact that Utopian left him out of his wagon hopping. I now read Utopian as town, which breaks that up entirely. Now I'm reading Rockin with a scum lean (still gotta reply and think on his reply to me though) due to the JTB vote combined with other factors. I felt like I was sufficiently detailed on my read of him.

3) My reads on Ryker and Ran are pretty straightforward. I feel like my level of direct interaction with Ryker during the claim fiasco gave me more than enough of a read on him, and I don't find it "easy" at all.

I was a late joiner to this game, and if you're expecting 100% original and unique reads after so much discussion, I'm confused. I don't understand why my Utopian push doesn't fall under that.

 

[Rockin]

for now though

Vote: Ranmaru

 

[Lore]

Because I wasn't sure if Doop was really going to be the play or not. We had a day and a half till deadline, and the votes were slowly piling up. I saw Doop finally post and put a vote on himself. I didn't want to vote that time (because I was unsure if we were going to wait for another replacement or if we're going to end the game, because that was a thing that came up). Once I saw the hammer I went 'welp.'

Ranmaru is doing the exact thing he did with Tom. Waiting for someone to disagree/have a negative reaction to tom, begins to build cases out of thin air and spare random parts, and then aggressively asks other people to hear their thoughts so they can build into it as well. I'm sure like one or two of those reasons are justified, but they were never brought into light until I made this post . Even with the whole UP vs Ryker thing going on, he was tunneling in on asking others for their input on his 'case.' in D1, there was certainly enough time, even when Gorf and Macman stated their issues with me. Neither of those times Ranmaru jumped in on that opportunity to join their case, or even brought back up the fact that I didn't answer his question D1. Ranmaru thought that I was town even in D1 (though I disagreed with the logic behind it).

Admit it Ranmaru. Before that post I made even surfaced, did you really thought I was scum at all?

Thanks for the answer. But why keep the vote on a null read when you have two others as scum reads/leans, even if they weren't going to be the play?

I disagree pretty hard on the Ranmaru bit. His actions during UP vs Ryker felt like someone trying to discuss other things while we were waiting for UP to come back, something that I too agreed with and felt we should wait on. It felt pretty genuine.

I'll reread his stuff near the end of the day to try and confirm what you're saying about him seeing you as town, but I'm unfamiliar with that exchange and will have to reread for sure.

 

[Lore]

for now though

Vote: Ranmaru

I also don't particularly like how your first vote upon your return is just to vote on the person who's making a case against you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I felt like I was sufficiently detailed on my read of him.

Now I'm reading Rockin with a scum lean (still gotta reply and think on his reply to me though) due to the JTB vote combined with other factors.

 

[Lore]

Sorry for the triple post, missed this.

I wouldn't mind Lore go as well. During the whole UP vs Ryker claim, it felt like Lore was trying to find another person to tackle and lynch. I would need to reread the exchanges again when I come back from work later today.

It's almost as if we had someone claim tracker on somebody, and I was waiting for results? With the intention of voting Ryker if UP came back with a damning result?

 

[Pythag]

UtopianPoyzin
#HBC | Mac

Who's scum?

 

[Lore]

Is there an image here? I can't see it. If not, I'm not sure if I get your point. I was replying to you then Rockin.

 

[Lore]

^above was pointed at Gorf.

Pythag Have you said who you feel is scum?

 

[Rockin]

Thanks for the answer. But why keep the vote on a null read when you have two others as scum reads/leans, even if they weren't going to be the play?

We were close to deadline, and I wanted to make sure we at least get a lynch out instead of a possible no lynch situation (I seen that happen from time to time in previous games close to deadline). Doop voted on himself and steam was picking up on votes, so I was 'stuck' there on JTB (cause again, I didn't know what the game state was on whether we were going to call it or not). It was an awkward situation.

I also don't particularly like how your first vote upon your return is just to vote on the person who's making a case against you.

You are mistaken. I never left TO work yet. I will be leaving to work in a few minutes and won't come back till really late at night (2AM for me or more).

 

[Pythag]

^above was pointed at Gorf.

Pythag Have you said who you feel is scum?

I think there's 1 between FF and Rockin
I think Kary's looking kinda scummy

I think I've got a lot of nulls and inactives

 

[Lore]

We were close to deadline, and I wanted to make sure we at least get a lynch out instead of a possible no lynch situation (I seen that happen from time to time in previous games close to deadline). Doop voted on himself and steam was picking up on votes, so I was 'stuck' there on JTB (cause again, I didn't know what the game state was on whether we were going to call it or not). It was an awkward situation.

You are mistaken. I never left TO work yet. I will be leaving to work in a few minutes and won't come back till really late at night (2AM for me or more).

Not sure if I'm a big fan of that explanation, with how we had multiple days until deadline even at the time of your scum/null list where you still had JTB as your vote.

No worries on the second bit, I think you may have misunderstood. I'm saying that your first activity today is to go in on the person making a case against you, even leaving a vote. I'm not a fan of it.

I think there's 1 between FF and Rockin
I think Kary's looking kinda scummy

I think I've got a lot of nulls and inactives

Then go ahead and join us on this Rockin wagon, there's plenty of room.

 

[Pythag]

Then go ahead and join us on this Rockin wagon, there's plenty of room.

1792

 

[Lore]

1792

Oof, my bad.

 

[Pythag]

Tried to make some semblance of a graph for where the scum leans and tells are going. I just gave even hints equal weight, I'm sure I'm missing something, but seeing it in this form helps me.

Spoiler

NGL, recent posts by Lore are making me rethink if I find him scummy or not.
Not even with regard to Ryker.

 

[Rockin]

No worries on the second bit, I think you may have misunderstood. I'm saying that your first activity today is to go in on the person making a case against you, even leaving a vote. I'm not a fan of it.

Oooooh I see. My mistake then!

 

[Lore]

Oooooh I see. My mistake then!

No worries, good luck at work.

 

[Lore]

Tried to make some semblance of a graph for where the scum leans and tells are going. I just gave even hints equal weight, I'm sure I'm missing something, but seeing it in this form helps me.

Spoiler

NGL, recent posts by Lore are making me rethink if I find him scummy or not.
Not even with regard to Ryker.

I was able to load it on my phone. Unfortunately, you're missing my JeXs read on there.

 

[Pythag]

I was able to load it on my phone. Unfortunately, you're missing my JeXs read on there.

Added. I'll repost in a bit after I correct more mistakes. Thanks.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Is there an image here? I can't see it. If not, I'm not sure if I get your point. I was replying to you then Rockin.

the two quoted sentences i posted are direct contradictions to eachother. "the jtb vote" and "other factors" are not what i would call "sufficient detail."

 

[Pythag]

ranmaru

Why Rockin instead of Lore? Do you find them equally scummy>?

 

[Lore]

the two quoted sentences i posted are direct contradictions to eachother. "the jtb vote" and "other factors" are not what i would call "sufficient detail."

If the two posts from earlier laying out what I find weird about Rockin's play plus the direct call out of the JTB vote isn't enough, I have no clue what you want from me.

 

[#HBC | Mac]

Who's scum?

your diagram is correct

 

[#HBC | Mac]

^ that was in response to pythag not from tom's quote


but to answer tom's question, ive asked you all the questions i have currently. but if you wanna respond to my #1584

sad that everyone save for gorf is ignoring it

 

[#HBC | Mac]

*but if you wanna respond feel free

 

[Pythag]

#HBC | Mac
Whoops, I'm sorry. I didn't see the questions were to me as well.

Spoiler

and **** it imma just come out and say that Tom's been on my radar for a while for a couple reasons

• that ran wagon looks even more disgusting on reread and Tom seemed to be a proponent of it
• didn't make sense that someone like Tom would legitimately scumspect Ran for the reasons presented in thread at the time
• tom kept claiming early on that he's waiting to hear how ppl feel about RanvTom, which to me signals that there's specific stuff he's looking to get out of it. but then for the rest of the Day he doesn't bring it back up, he doesn't talk about any findings or question any slots or do anything that shows that he was being truthful. its still unclear what he was looking to get out of it
• tom disappeared when town started calling him townie and referring to ran as TvS and i'm scared that he's just coasting on that goodwill.
  • then unfortunately never got a chance to elaborate on some of the stuff from his catch up posts because the Day happened to end too soon
• and as a bonus the flips (esp marshy's) don't work in his favor

i finally got a couple answers from Tom about the above, and tbh for the most part they check out to me, but i dont put it past tom to come up with solid response.

I've come back to the idea that marshy said "if doop flips scum, shoot tom" and we really haven't talked about it. I can see why Tom wouldn't want to bring it up. What was marshy thinking when he said that? I should probably go look at that interaction. Was that just D1 whatever, or was he seeing something legit.

Tom isn't necessarily true blue town, I know earlier I said otherwise (esp. During Ran v Tom), but it's kind of my fault for mentally lumping null as town.
Ran has proven himself to be much more town than tom has.

Of all your points the one that resonates with me the one I bolded. It's is when tom was waiting to hear from everyone else before giving his opinion on RanVTom. It sounds like he has something to say, but we don't hear about it later. That sounds like it could've been had enough people given their opinion that Ran was scum Tom could've had some grand expose on how he thought the same thing.


Everything else I'm actually ok with. Especially corroborating Tom's recent answers, (from what I recall) it reads pretty much like I initially interpreted it. Which wasn't necessarily scummy.

I know ryker is actually on record as saying "he sees where Tom is looking" so HE might have a much better opinion for you, or more introspection.

that's all I got though.

 

[Lore]

I had completely forgot about the Marshy pointing at Tom re: Doop flip.

I currently still have Tom as town, but it sounds like a reread is in order. I'll make notes of notable posts, if any particularly catch my eye.

 

[ranmaru]

I am home. I am going to eat some cereal before I respond to people, and also I will check out your #1584 Mac and give my thoughts.

 

[Pythag]

Just some interesting things :

Spoiler

why? I read it as TvT

Doop thought Ranmaru v Tom was TvT.

hmm hmm hmmm..

Spoiler

#hbc
marshy
ryker
ran
mac

swag
kevinm

not as strong as above but dont want to touch today
rockin
gorf
jexs

lynchpool/vig
dooplissity
tom = the scum i expect town to lose to
jtb

anyone else im still workin on, still need to see what happens

Check out dat lynch pool.

Spoiler

vote doop

for now. shoot tom on a scumflip

asks for vig to shoot tom on a scumflip of doop.

#HBC | Mac Are your scum reads embolded by Kev and Marshy flipping town?

Marshy wanted JTB to die and was suspicious of Tom
Kevin wanted Rockin to die.

I need to reread what you said about JTB.
Ryker, though he disagreed with it, said you were the only one on the JTB wagon looking good.


hmmmm hmmmm hmmmmm. Lotta of thinking going on here.


Lastly, I just love these all together. It's petty, but I just think it's hilarious.

Spoiler

(Pythag said: ) You're essentially implying your vote doesn't mean anything until you want it to.
UP said : Bluntly, yes. If it can work in a 24 hour day/mafia, it can work in a 144 day/mafia. All this does is give me background so I'm not going in blind. Is that bad?

(Pythag said) : Also because, what if the wagon continued and someone did get hammered.)
UP said : It wouldn't. Because I will not be responsible for hammering anybody day one. If any wagon gets to 8 votes, I will hop off, don't you worry. [/quote

(Pythag said:) My question to you is, how do you determine to the town what is your final vote?
UP said : The one that sticks at the actual day end.

Doop is a "bloody narc"

Vote: Dooplissity

I'm perfectly content with this lynch and because I know that Doop isn't going to be hammered, I would like to see how this goes down with my vote here.

Wait, you all hammered in my absence?

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

KevinM and Marshy dead... we're looking for someone who hates hardbody fun.

 

[Pythag]

#HBC | Nabe you got anything else for us? you caught up?

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm fine with any of Rockin, Lore, or FF going today. I think all three are a good look for the noose.

I probably want Tom hanged if he makes it to LyLo, but I think there are more pressing concerns right now.

Why not JTB?
You weren't on his waggon yesterday either.

I’m gonna put a big ol’ fos Kary Cause of their interaction in that.

Kary has been well thought out and reasoned.
I know Kary didn’t think Ryker was town but man alive, you didn’t even want to wait for UP

So you think I am scum and I was trying to quickly lynch Ryker? In that case why didn't I vote for Ryker?

 

[Pythag]

Why not JTB?
You weren't on his waggon yesterday either.



So you think I am scum and I was trying to quickly lynch Ryker? In that case why didn't I vote for Ryker?

nah, simpler than that :
I found your interactions there scummy.
I'm rethinking you.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I found your interactions there scummy.
I'm rethinking you.

well I guess that leaves me shaking in my boots until your read is done in the oven.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Vote: Lore

He's only picking on people smaller than him, his reads are basic and uninspired, plus he seems to have zero conviction on anything he posts.
Thanks Gorf for showing me the light. #HBC

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Hi friends! I know the other co-mods (Giraffel and Ryu are great) have been doing a great job modding this so I've been relatively hands-free. I've modded Mafia games for basically a really long time though so if ya'll need me, feel free to tag/ping me in thread or in PM's.