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Demon Kings: 3 Experts Weigh in on Smash 4 Ganondorf

In the first official Smash 4 tier list, Ganondorf was voted to be only two spots away from the worst character in the game. While this is better than being the lowest-ranked fighter on the tier list as he was in Brawl, not much can be said on this improvement. Some have wondered if Ganondorf is truly the king of the bottom tier, citing his dominance of various power rankings and surprisingly high placements at certain tournaments. So what do those in the trenches battling with him as a main think of him? We brought three of the best Ganondorf mains to weigh in!

  • Vermanubis - Considered the best NA Ganondorf in Brawl. Continues to find top three placements in Smash 4.
  • Ray Kalm - Has innovated with Ganondorf since Brawl. Has top placements like EXP 2015 (4th), Summit 2015 (7th), and Smash Nexus.
  • Opana - Has consistently placed top 3 in regionals and locals. Has used Ganondorf since the 3DS release.
So is there more to this King of Evil than meets the eye? Hold onto that Triforce of Power and read on to find out!

Disadvantages

With the character being ranked so low by many players, it comes as no surprise that Ganondorf has some distinct weaknesses. All three experts agreed that his primary weakness comes from his approach game. "For a character to move so slow, and have such slow or short-ranged options out of a dash is kinda crazy," Opana told us. "Literally from the moment you hear go, it's a guessing game from start to finish, whether that be his approach or near-anything else he does."

This creates further problems against characters with a strong projectile game. "He could be completely walled out with projectiles. Very quick and hard-to-punish projectiles in particular give the opposing player very good control of the stage, and amplifies their neutral game," Ray Kalm explained.

Unfortunately, the issues with his approach do not stop there either. His lack of a strong out-of-shield option and good options to challenge shields also hurt him, as Vermanubis explains: "My most difficult matches are characterized by my opponent refusing to approach, and are compounded when they know to tech chokes or hold shield, forcing me to get in solely by way of tomahawking or getting lucky on a missed tech. Wouldn't be a problem if any given throw killed below 200% at max rage next to the ledge. Against a character like Ike who isn't hit by anything upon a missed tech and rolls too far to be hit by anything guaranteed, it's not uncommon for them to live to extreme percents; some of his only entry tools (Wizard's Kick, grabs, and choke) have no KO potential."

The list of weaknesses continues from there. "Aside from his approach issues and overall horrible mobility, he lacks a decent out-of-shield option; his recovery is very linear and easy to intercept; his kill options, while there are many, are unreliable; he gets comboed and juggled easily, and his frame data is overall pretty bad," Opana explained. "He doesn't really have any 'safe' moves," Vermanubis told us. "You, in essence, must correctly guess with virtually any move, otherwise you're likely to be effortlessly punished."

Advantages

Nevertheless, do not be discouraged by all these weaknesses. Ganondorf wields the Triforce of Power and it gives him one of his biggest advantages: "His strength!" Vemanubis exclaimed. "Moreover, his strength's ability to command respect which opens up a lot of opportunities for manipulation and mix-ups. The unique thing, and furthermore, the enigma of Ganon, is that he possesses all of the tools to get the job done. He has moves so that he has at least one answer for any given option."

This power also adds to another of Ganondorf's biggest strengths, as Opana explains: "Ganondorf's biggest strength is definitely his punish game. Capitalizing on any window of opportunity can start a chain of momentum that turns the tide of battle in your favor. With the addition of rage and the new ledge mechanics, he won't be dying nearly as early while having much more potential to turn things around. Really, you can never count Ganondorf out. One good hit is often all he needs."

A Showcase By Z1GMA, Another Notable Ganondorf Main

His edgeguarding ability and various strong tools also make him a force to be reckoned with. "His edge guarding is amazing, he has a frame 6 up aerial that covers nearly all around him, a strong, long-lasting hitbox in neutral aerial, a quick and effective killer in back aerial, a long-reaching powerful move in forward aerial that can beat out or trade with many things, and a highly effective meteor smash in down aerial," Opana said.

Relevant Matchups

All three experts agreed on a trifecta of characters that stomp Ganondorf: Sheik, Rosalina, and Zero Suit Samus. "Sheik, unsurprisingly, just outruns us in every respect," Vemanubis told us. "Rosalina it seems at times was designed almost specifically to hard-counter Ganon. They're all winnable though."

However, this does not leave him without more manageable top tier matchups either. Both Opana and Vermanubis made mention of Mario and Ness. "Ganon still doesn't have the advantage," Opana made sure to explain, "but these are a lot more doable than the rest of the upper half of the roster."

Is Ganondorf Viable?

The experts had mixed reactions. "I'd say no," said Ray Kalm. "Although he has a good or fair chance against most characters, national tournaments would more often consist of characters which could completely invalidate Ganon's viability. In locals though, there is a higher chance."

Opana was only slightly more optimistic: "Ganondorf on a national level is highly unlikely but entirely possible given the nature of his character. But it's not something I'd expect often if at all unless they have another character they're using as well. It's pretty unlikely to read people well enough to crack top 32 at a national; a lot of the time you just need better tools."

Vemanubis had this to say: "I want to preface my answer by saying that while it may seem strange to some, all this talk of how hard Ganon has it and how he has a hard time killing, I'd argue with no small conviction that a majority of people simply don't play the MU correctly. Ganons everywhere get away with, well... murder. This may make Ganon appear to some as more viable than he actually is. That being said...

Marginally. I think it's possible for Ganon to succeed on the national stage. I think he can win anything with the requisite perseverance and optimization. Only trouble is that, as I mentioned, Ganon is a fundamentally chancy character as it stands. With respect to what I mentioned about Ganon possessing the tools, but at high risk, he can win anything, but he has no particular consistent answers for any given thing. He has answers -- just not ones he won't pay for badly if he guesses wrong."


Advice for Ganondorf Mains?

"Use Ganon if you like the character and enjoy his playstyle," Ray Kalm said. "It's possible for you to suddenly make game-turning results. Never give up during a match!"

Opana had this to add: "If you're interested in Ganondorf, I'd start studying your matches, win or lose, as they often can be insightful when you ask yourself things such as, 'Why didn't this work?' and 'What could I have done better in this situation?'. Pretty much just learn from and iron out your mistakes and keep on the lookout for more. But study the matchups too! Reviewing your games is a valuable resource not just for learning from mistakes but learning key things in matchups. Knowledge will often be your strongest tool with Ganondorf; it's essential to playing him well. It can be the difference between winning and losing, so always try to learn new things!"

Need more advice? As Vermanubis so eloquently put it, "Go forth and drink deep the life of those who would rebel against the King.

Ganon is the strangest character I've ever seen in a fighting game -- the quantum qharacter, as it were -- being simultaneously in a state of being able to win magnificently and lose splendidly. He's an engine more than anything: he's only as effective as the player behind him, which I adore and think is a credit to him as a character with some of the greatest creative capacity in the game.

As you progress your Ganon game, you'll notice that the heavy hits are no longer the centerpiece of his functioning. Instead, concrete fundamentals, understanding of options, and the ability to effectively and swiftly categorize your opponent's behaviors to minimize wasteful movement and decisions are what will win you matches. You have to be intensely critical of your imperfections as a player, and furthermore, you can't encumber yourself with the mindset that you lost because of Ganon. The King demands nothing less than perfection, and perfection alone will do!"


---​

A special thank you to Opana Opana , Vermanubis Vermanubis , and @Ray_Kalm for giving their expertise for this article. To learn more about Smash 4 Ganondorf, be sure to check out the Ganondorf Forums right here on Smashboards!

Agree or disagree with these Ganondorf experts? Have a suggestion for the next character we should cover? Sound off in the comments below and stay tuned to Smashboards for future expert analysis on characters from all Smash titles!
 

Comments

D
DEDEDE NEXT PLS

Very good article, glad to see this series is still up and running! I don't believe Ganon can be a threat at top level myself, but it's nice to see the insight from the best Ganondorf players nonetheless.
 
No surprise here. Ganondorf is trash and there is no doubt in my mind that he will still be trash if another Smash game is made.
 
I love these articles. They are so informative and gives a really good overview over the character.
Reading this makes me interested in playing Ganondorf in friendlies a bit because he's really fun at times.
But I wouldn't say that Ganondorfs frame data is bad. All aerials share almost the same frame data with Captain Falcon and his upsmash has probably the least cooldown of all upsmashes.
I think he does not belong in Bottom Tier in this game.

I'd like to participate in a Yoshi one with @RaptorTEC and @The Wall because Yoshi is the character who is highest on the tier list with the very least results (every character in the tier below Yoshi has better results) so I think this might be pretty informative.
 
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LMAO when Ray Kalm tells it like it is: "The experts had mixed reactions. "I'd say no," said Ray Kalm. "Although he has a good or fair chance against most characters, national tournaments would more often consist of characters which could completely invalidate Ganon's viability. In locals though, there is a higher chance.""

I'd say he really knows what he's up against
 
In my professional opinion. Ganon has too many drawbacks and negative things to bare than positive. Definitely not worth.

Oh and that last clip of Ganon turning on his teammate at the end was messed up ;-;
 
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As a Ganon main myself, I agree that he has so many flaws, but in the right hands he can do wonders and can defeat anyone, no matter the matchup.
 
I personally say that if ganon was not a heavily watered down clone of falcon he wouldn't be so low on the tier list. It is his lack of an original moveset that has him at the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.
 
I think a lot of people still play him for the sheer power he brings. I went to a tournament where just a little under half the players were Ganon mains LOL
 
DahremRuhar DahremRuhar I don't see the disrespect factor mentioned once in an article about Ganon.
Bragging about disrespect is probably the most respectful thing you can do. Why dignify your opponent by making it seem as though disrespecting them is a big deal? ;)

For them, it was the most disrespected day of their lives. For Ganon, it was tuesday.
 
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This is probably too recent to really make it into the article, but Bayonetta is probably his worst MU. All the others give him more room to hang around and get that one big read to turn the game around, but Bayo can actually camp him really well with Bullet Climax, can reset to neutral effortlessly, can run away easily, and can reliably end him quickly once in advantage. This I think really invalidates him much more than any other MU, since in the other ones he can play around some things and outplay his opponent, but Bayo feels like a Brawl MU where she can really just shut down his options. Without her he's a mostly playable character even if you can't really win consistently against most high tiers, but she just totally trashes him. It's the one MU I don't even want to try to play, and it's really depressing after gutting out so many other bad ones to have this dumped on him in the last patch.
 
Amazing article that tells the story of players who truly play this game for the love of it. Ganon is a super underrated character that demands time and effort to learn. True of any character but the low tier characters demand it even more since small mistakes with them can mean the difference between a win and a lose. I hope more articles like this come out for other characters as a way to help remind the players that love to play them that there are others out there working to put their character on the map.
 
No surprise here. Ganondorf is trash and there is no doubt in my mind that he will still be trash if another Smash game is made.
As long as Sakurai makes it, yeah. He'll always be trash and he'll always be a clone of Captain Falcon. And people will always make Ganondorf out to be some meme character.

"Wow, he landed a down air as Ganondorf! So disrespectful!"

Funny how they don't seem to know what disrespect actually means in a Smash game.
 
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Is it bad that part of me likes him being bottom tier so he keeps the most evil title of "King of Disrespect"?

With that said, I do hope that if a Smash 5 is made, that they replace Ganondork with some other F-zero character (because there are many people who love his moveset), and then give Ganondork his own moveset.

I will probably never main Ganondorf, but you have no idea how much fun I have watching certain people play Ganondorf.
 
I like how the highlight video is called a gameplay video, because you know there aren't any combos in it
 
But I thought Ganondorf uses the Triforce of Power, not Wisdom.
You need to be wise in order to appreciate your power, and courageous in order to use it in the face of almost certain defeat. Why do you think Ganondorf was after Link and Zelda in the first place?
 
As long as he continues to be the sluggish by product of Captain Falcon's moveset, Ganondorf will NEVER be good. Which is kind of sad, especially when you realize that the Smash series has never done his character justice, not even in Melee, where he was actually somewhat decent.
 
Clearly, I don't think he was balanced for 1v1 in mind but 2v2 and FFA instead. Playing him well requires extensive knowledge of his moveset and match-ups, especially the really bad ones. If you don't do any of that then pick up someone better.
 
I like how the highlight video is called a gameplay video, because you know there aren't any combos in it
There is actually a good amount of 2hit-combos in the vid as well as a few 3hit ones. And Ganon's combos are mostly 2hit. His 3hit-combos are rare and don't really outclass his 2hit-combos, so 2hit-combos are pretty much what you wanna go for as Ganon.
 
I've always liked and used Ganondorf in all of the Smash games (yes, even in Brawl but I wasn't competitive at the time). TBH it's no surprise he's low tier but IMO he's not completely bad.
Yeah he's received numerous helpful buffs in the patches but it's not enough to counter his speed flaws. But for the most part Ganon is better than he was back in Brawl.
Overall I think Ganondorf could have been a little higher but at the same time I don't see that many Ganon players in tournaments. Maybe he'll be in a higher slot in the next tier list but we'll just wait and see.
 
I can relate to this. The top 2 guy here on my country uses Ganondorf(Along with DK and Bowser), and he destroys all low ranked and some good ranked players due to his extreme reads.

However, once you play him defensively, he'll have a hard time and mostly just kills you because you messed up.
 
One of the perks of most of the bottom tiers in this game is that most of them benefit from match up ignorance. Ganon, Dedede, Palutena, and Samus are fairly intimidating if you don't know how to fight them and I feel like this is a long distance from low and bottom tiers in Melee and Brawl where you could usually wing it and do just fine against competent players. Of these four, Ganon probably benefits from this the most and, of the current low and bottom tiers, the only other character who is more likely steamroll you if you don't know what you're doing is Little Mac. Ganon's rarely more than two strong hits away from taking a stock and hard reads for this character are especially rewarding.
 
I personally say that if ganon was not a heavily watered down clone of falcon he wouldn't be so low on the tier list. It is his lack of an original moveset that has him at the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.
How can you say that when an original moveset doesn't even exist? What are you basing this off?
 
I personally say that if ganon was not a heavily watered down clone of falcon he wouldn't be so low on the tier list. It is his lack of an original moveset that has him at the bottom of the barrel in my opinion.
Not really. Not at all.

The ideology that Ganon has to be so slow, lack multihits and have extremely punishable lag on just about everything is what damns him in particular. There are a billion things I could point to - how about his jab? It's too high off the ground to hit certain characters (it didn't have to be animated like that), it's too slow out of shield, it poorly sets up any sort of advantagous scenario like other jabs do. Everything about it is bad and it seems to embody the broken philosophy on which the character is designed. Yep, it hits harder! But it fails to perform an essential function in which all characters in this game require to be balanced against one another. Jabs, Tilts, Smashes, Grabs. They're critical spacing tools, most characters have them or a move to substitute for them. But not G.
 
In my professional opinion. Ganon has too many drawbacks and negative things to bare than positive. Definitely not worth.

Oh and that last clip of Ganon turning on his teammate at the end was messed up ;-;
ganondorf be like "you are no longer of use hero of wind"
 
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