Delzethin Offers Up First-Party DLC Predictions

Super Smash Bros. Ultimate may be out already, there's still speculation to be had with its lineup of DLC characters, and as with the base roster, Delzethin is continuing to offer up his predictions for likely picks, starting off with potential first-party characters.

Before starting up the list proper, Delzethin makes two important notes. First, his list is broken up into three categories - front-runners, plausible picks and conditional picks. Second, he lays down some ground rules.

1. Timing matters. - While being from an older title doesn't disqualify a character from making it in, a recent release is typically a mark in their favor. However, the opposite can also be true - characters with upcoming major appearances might be passed over if the release date is too far out. The only exception to this is retro throwback characters, for obvious reasons.
2. Keep potential in mind. - One of the biggest factors determining whether a character makes it in - especially in the later titles - is how much their source material gives the developers to work with when designing a moveset.
3. It's not as simple as "representing." - The developers aren't focused on deciding which franchises are and aren't worthy, and more on which characters would make for interesting inclusions. On top of that, every Smash game has had multiple newcomers from the same franchise.
4. Summons/Miis/Spirits are... complicated. - While multiple characters have gone from NPC roles to playable characters between games, it hasn't happened within a game's life span so far. That doesn't rule out the concept entirely, but we can't really trust that characters that appear in non-playable roles will make it in either. Of these characters, Spirits, those who had Mii costumes in Smash 4 and those who have standalone Mii headgear but no full Mii costume have the best odds of becoming full playable characters.
5. "Promotion" picks? Well... - Sakurai may have said that Nintendo was heavily responsible for picking the Fighters Pass lineup, but that doesn't necessarily mean the chosen characters are all cynical marketing ploys.
6. It's not a power struggle - Not everything has to have winners and losers.

With all of that in mind, the lineup includes both expected and unexpected picks - including some that Delzethin has previously designed moveset concepts for.

Author's Note: Which first-party characters do you want to see as DLC? Which ones do you think are most likely? Do you agree or disagree with any of Delzethin's possible predictions?

 

Said it before, and I'll say it again. The support for Bandana Dee is a humongous circlejerk. He doesn't even have a proper name within the kirby games-- he's just any old waddle dee. If folks wanted an inconsequential kirby enemy, they could've at least chosen one out of the dozens of cooler ones lmao

I could be down with Bonkers or Knuckle Joe tbh

Sorry, but killed this argument.

And thank goodness

 

You really want me to believe Sakurai can't get a peek at the next gen, which I can assure you takes more than a year to make? Here's how the conversation would go
"What up I want more Pokemon in Smash!"
"Aight, we cooking some good **** right now, wanna look? Should be done by 2019"
"Sure thing fam we got time, Oh, I like this one! Can you get your marketing team to push this one? Got a feeling that'd make people get REALLY excited and work well for promotion of both of our games"
"Say no more bro!"

I mean let's be fair I'm trying to become a games developer myself and I absolutely talk this way.

 

We're never getting Ridley. I mean it's nice to dream and everything but please keep your expectations realistic.

You can't deny that this was said every other day on Smashboards. Ridley used to be that one character who made every leak fake just because he was seen as such an unlikely addition.

Things can change in a snap. Will we get a Zelda character as DLC? I'm not too optimistic, but neither was I with Ridley after Sakurai's disheartening comments shortly after Smash Wii U was released.

 

You can't deny that this was said every other day on Smashboards. Ridley used to be that one character who made every leak fake just because he was seen as such an unlikely addition.

Things can change in a snap. Will we get a Zelda character as DLC? I'm not too optimistic, but neither was I with Ridley after Sakurai's disheartening comments shortly after Smash Wii U was released.

I wish I could be this optimistic but I expect every future potential Zelda newcomer to be wasted on an assist trophy. Making the moon an assist trophy while also still keeping Skull Kid as his own separate one and getting people's hopes up until the very last second was the final straw for me.

 

Looking at his list, I'd say the only one that might have a crack is Decidueye and that's largely because of the stage factor. However, this would lead to another problem, and this would lead to people arguing once more about how spirits deconfirm characters, as Decidueye isn't even in the game, content-wise.

I'm more for the Echo Fighter Pass, as that seems to be an easy option to incorporate characters if we want to add content quickly.

 

I use "Smash for" as a catch-all for both Smash for Wii U and Smash for 3DS. Sakurai treats them as two separate games, so I figure just grouping them under Smash 4 doesn't really make much sense. I'm sorry if that bothers you on such a deep, personal level.

There is a massive difference between leaving a spot open for a Pokemon in a game that will be releasing in 3 years and leaving a spot open for a Pokemon in a DLC that will be releasing in a year. A full new game requires planning, there's a period where semantics are being worked out and ideas are fleshed out before being thrown onto paper. This makes leaving an open spot for a new Pokemon a viable choice, because time is a lot less of an important resource. DLC though? They have to hit the ground running with development ASAP. They don't have the fortune to wait for Game Freak to get every single detail in row before they can start development. Games change all the time throughout development. It's important to have a fully finalized character to work with, otherwise that leads to weird disparities. Sakurai really, really cares being accurate with who a character is and what they do. The only time he's ever worked on a character in Smash while they were still cooking was Roy, which led to a major difference between Sakurai's depiction of the character and his personality in Fire Emblem. Hell, he later apologized about this happening and changed Roy in Smash for to reflect this.

Also, Smash's primary purpose is not to serve as an advertisement. If it was a glorified advertisement, then we would've seen Rex and Springman. Likewise, we definitely wouldn't see Cloud, Snake, or Joker, seeing how they're primarily associated with an opposing product. It's actually been stated that Smash can be bad as an advertising tool, as the violence in the game often conflicts with the brand image of various franchises (and we know how much Game "No extra Amiibo usage for Pokemon" Freak likes brand control). Either way, I'm sure no one at Game Freak's marketing is really losing sleep over whether or not Gen 8 will get a Pokemon. Sakurai chooses who he wants, regardless of whether or not the marketing department will be thrilled who that choice is.

TL;DR: Leaving a spot for a still-developing character is much more justifiable in the base game, as there's more time to account for characters soldifiying and changing. Smash and marketing are pretty distinct.

Just say Smash 4, you type less that way, because by saying "Smash for" and nothing else then you quite literally do nothing to separate them and only say it to go "Look at how smart I am! I am VERY intelligent because I used a codename! Now if you'll excuse me I'm going to play Team Ninja's Project M on the Revolution!". People literally only say "Smash for" to sound smarter all because one dumbass made a typo and tried to save face

You REALLY think **** isn't finalized though? If you're not going to read my argument in which I point out that the designs have already been finalized considering how game development works, why should I bother even considering arguing with you any further?

Sure which is why Pokemon newcomers just so happen to be from the hot new games with the sole exception of Mewtwo. Even Pokemon Trainer considering ORAS was used as an excuse for multiple Gen III remixes. Just admit you have a strange obsession with that ****ty wolf like Del and are only trying to argue it's an exception because you're mad your favourite didn't get in

 

Please, just give us another Xenoblade character!

 

So, I do think we are going to get first party reps, or at least 1 as DLC, It only makes sense, since we got 2 first party reps in smash 4, being and , and the rest being third party. That actually wouldn't be to bad of an Idea for this fighter pass

...Except both Lucas and Mewtwo were in a smash game before smash 4.

Said it before, and I'll say it again. The support for Bandana Dee is a humongous circlejerk. He doesn't even have a proper name within the kirby games-- he's just any old waddle dee. If folks wanted an inconsequential kirby enemy, they could've at least chosen one out of the dozens of cooler ones lmao

I could be down with Bonkers or Knuckle Joe tbh

Bandana Dee is the only protagonist of return to dreamland who isn't in smash yet

 

I just want Scorpion. He needs to “get over here” and pronto!

 

...Except both Lucas and Mewtwo were in a smash game before smash 4.

Bandana Dee is the only protagonist of return to dreamland who isn't in smash yet

And Toad is the only protagonist of Super Mario 3D World who isn't in Smash yet.

 

Ray 01 or Ray mk III, other than that i don't have a clue.

 

Tbh i'm really sure Bandana Dee will make it in... he's really requested and it has yet to be deconfirmed that he's not gonna ever be playable

 

Tbh i'm really sure Bandana Dee will make it in... he's really requested and it has yet to be deconfirmed that he's not gonna ever be playable

I think the problem with the Banadana Dee argument is people get themselves hyped up over an echo chamber. I’m a Nintendo fan who’s owned every console and a Smash fan and I didn’t even know who Bandana Dee was until I joined this website. Now obviously Sakurai picks whoever he wants but I don’t think he’s getting in based on popularity

 

I think the problem with the Banadana Dee argument is people get themselves hyped up over an echo chamber. I’m a Nintendo fan who’s owned every console and a Smash fan and I didn’t even know who Bandana Dee was until I joined this website. Now obviously Sakurai picks whoever he wants but I don’t think he’s getting in based on popularity

Tbh, Bandana Waddle Dee is one of the few "ballot" characters, that isn't in the game yet. Based off of what we know, he's one of Japan's most wanted and has a pretty decent fanbase in the West.

Plus, Kirby and the Waddle Dees in general are really popular in Japan.
BWD is definitely not on the level of or , but he can definitely be a popularity pick.

He honestly has one of the best shots out of all 1st party characters at this point (In my opinion, of course).

 

Tbh, Bandana Waddle Dee is one of the few "ballot" characters, that isn't in the game yet. Based off of what we know, he's one of Japan's most wanted and has a pretty decent fanbase in the West.

Plus, Kirby and the Waddle Dees in general are really popular in Japan.
BWD is definitely not on the level of or , but he can definitely be a popularity pick.

He honestly has one of the best shots out of all 1st party characters at this point (In my opinion, of course).

I could be wrong and I could be completely sleeping on Bandana Dee and the Kirby series in general but it seemed like Krool and Ridley were the last first party giants to get in. Even somebody like Dixie Kong seems like she’s more popular to me than BWD (that said I’m a huge DK fan and not a Kirby fan really plus it would be easy to make a clone or echo of Diddy). If what you say is true though than maybe he’ll have his shot

 

Ok I kinda made a account just to reply to this, but a good first party DLC fighter would honestly be a classic NES character, probably to revive it, but I'm putting my money in for Mach Rider, would be a very oddball choice, like plant, but people did want Mach Rider so that could help the support for a DLC opportunity, too bad Battletoads is rare now, I would have said that if Rare was kept with Nintendo for like a NES character ;(

 

Ok I kinda made a account just to reply to this, but a good first party DLC fighter would honestly be a classic NES character, probably to revive it, but I'm putting my money in for Mach Rider, would be a very oddball choice, like plant, but people did want Mach Rider so that could help the support for a DLC opportunity, too bad Battletoads is rare now, I would have said that if Rare was kept with Nintendo for like a NES character ;(

Honestly if Banjo/Master Chief/Steve actually happen who's to say what's on/off the table anymore. Only thing is I think we might be stretching the NES library in Smash a little thin (Though you may call me I hypocrite for still holding out for Takamaru.). Somebody in another thread noted that between characters that have lasted the years and stood the test of time, and characters with notable NES appearances that were impactful to Nintendo's sales and history at the time, we have most of the hard hitters. There's a few characters I still associate with the quintessential NES library, but my picks might not be others and the more added the farther we go from "Well you can't say Nintendo's NES era without remembering THAT character.". I wouldn't mind Battletoads, Takamaru, Bill Rizer, Ryu Hayabusa, Sleve McDichael but they're not essentially necessary imo. But then again between Smash 4's DLC cycle and now Joker in Smash, I can kind of see the argument from some long time fans that Smash lost the plot when it comes to Nintendo's rich history and a celebration of the company and it's properties a long time ago, though maybe that's not entirely fair since we did get Ridley and Rool this go around. Seems like Smash is currently kind of in a messy medium of still being the Nintendo/Nintendo affiliated fighting game, and exemplifying the joke that anyone can be in Smash now.

 

I get what your saying, another thing is what I wanted to bring up is like a f-zero character, honestly C.Falcon is so alone, Goroh is a assist and that was like the only other character to be kind of like a fighter, its kinda like how issac was given the assist trophy fate, pretty much impossible to put a character in the game if they already are kinda in the game already, and I wouldnt see anyone complain if we did get a F-Zero character, but it is kind of a slim chance that we would get another F-Zero character because again, Goroh would be the only one who would work imo.

 

I get what your saying, another thing is what I wanted to bring up is like a f-zero character, honestly C.Falcon is so alone, Goroh is a assist and that was like the only other character to be kind of like a fighter, its kinda like how issac was given the assist trophy fate, pretty much impossible to put a character in the game if they already are kinda in the game already, and I wouldnt see anyone complain if we did get a F-Zero character, but it is kind of a slim chance that we would get another F-Zero character because again, Goroh would be the only one who would work imo.

Assuming F-Zero hasn't seen a game release in 15 years, I doubt an F-Zero character was even considered

 

Butttt it could promote the rumored new game supposedly coming out soon, never know man

 

I've actually never considered Revali before. Perhaps he could take up any of the moveset crafting Sakurai did for Decidueye before he got the axe?

I thought of this a while back to o! and I have used this as a talking point in several Smash discussions and it really could work

 

I have a few problems with your predictions that I shall now treat as requests.

Firstly, Edelgard.
Besides the thing that the Dixie Kong support thread knows me for, why must you ask for Fire Embelch? Just because she could possibly bring something new to the table does not mean that there should be an eighth representative to a series whose bestselling game has only shipped approximately two million units I say as I desperately wait for Geno.

Secondly, Paper Mario.
I want him to be in as much as the next guy, but there are three things going against him (besides the controversy you have already mentioned).
First off, the fact that has also gotten a fair bit of controversy and I don't think Nintendo would want their (sometimes literally) golden boy to garner the same amount of heat when you consider has already put them just one step away.
Second off, Sakurai said there won't be a single echo and you've mentioned it.
Finally, have you ever played M.U.G.E.N? Because if you have, you'd know about a specific cheap character known as Super Mario 64. Oh boy, SM64. It's hard to explain how stupid that character is, you'll just have to see it in action.

This is the problem with characters that summon other characters wile keeping their bodies intact (unless used as a Final Smash). This is how Paper Mario would be if it was how you described it.

Thirdly, Revali.
I'd picture the Divine Beasts as a a Pokémon Trainer type of deal. You could maybe switch out between the four using Down B, and the final smash would be the same no matter what (the cutscene that plays before fighting Calamity Ganon if you freed all the Divine Beasts).

Finally, Geno.
Why didn't you include him? I mean, come on, it's GENO! GENO! GENO! GENO!

 

I have a few problems with your predictions that I shall now treat as requests.

Firstly, Edelgard.
Besides the thing that the Dixie Kong support thread knows me for, why must you ask for Fire Embelch? Just because she could possibly bring something new to the table does not mean that there should be an eighth representative to a series whose bestselling game has only shipped approximately two million units I say as I desperately wait for Geno.

Secondly, Paper Mario.
I want him to be in as much as the next guy, but there are three things going against him (besides the controversy you have already mentioned).
First off, the fact that has also gotten a fair bit of controversy and I don't think Nintendo would want their (sometimes literally) golden boy to garner the same amount of heat when you consider has already put them just one step away.
Second off, Sakurai said there won't be a single echo and you've mentioned it.
Finally, have you ever played M.U.G.E.N? Because if you have, you'd know about a specific cheap character known as Super Mario 64. Oh boy, SM64. It's hard to explain how stupid that character is, you'll just have to see it in action.

This is the problem with characters that summon other characters wile keeping their bodies intact (unless used as a Final Smash). This is how Paper Mario would be if it was how you described it.

Thirdly, Revali.
I'd picture the Divine Beasts as a a Pokémon Trainer type of deal. You could maybe switch out between the four using Down B, and the final smash would be the same no matter what (the cutscene that plays before fighting Calamity Ganon if you freed all the Divine Beasts).

Finally, Geno.
Why didn't you include him? I mean, come on, it's GENO! GENO! GENO! GENO!

You know I should ignore this as it's mostly baseless brainless rambling, but I do want to at least focus on one thing. You DO know Geno isn't a first party Nintendo character right?

 

Honestly Geno wont get in, hes been requested for way to long, the spirit kind of deconfirmed? I mean no spirits(Aside from fighter spirits) are actually playable in the game, but we can always dream that one day we will see him in, I dont honestly know the character but he seems like he would be a nice roster edition in the future, but most likely wont get in Ultimate.

 

You know I should ignore this as it's mostly baseless brainless rambling

Sounds about right.

You DO know Geno isn't a first party Nintendo character right?

You DO know that Dixie Kong was made by Rare, right?

I just want Scorpion. He needs to “get over here” and pronto!

This is all the conformation that I needed for my Scorpion thread.

 

Sounds about right.

You DO know that Dixie Kong was made by Rare, right?

This is all the conformation that I needed for my Scorpion thread.

You DO know Nintendo owns Dixie right? Making her a first person character?

 

first person character?

Who's rambling again?

 

Who's rambling again?

Oh no I ****ed up a word. Sound the death knell despite how I shut you up about Dixie. This wasn't the kind of drama I expected to cause in this thread tbh

 

Oh no I ****ed up a word. Sound the death knell despite how I shut you up about Dixie. This wasn't the kind of drama I expected to cause in this thread tbh

I can't stop laughing at this.

 

I can't stop laughing at this.

Wow you must be easily entertained

 

You DO know that Dixie Kong was made by Rare, right?

OK seriously...

Dixie is a 1st party character; she's owned by Nintendo.
By your logic, and would also have be 3rd party characters and not owned by Nintendo.
And considering has appeared in a lot of modern Mario spinoff games, Rare would have to be consulted in all the games he's in (hint hint: Rare isn't credited on any Mario spinoff game).
And on top of that, all 3 of them appear together in Mario Super Sluggers, alongside DK, Kritter, Tiny Kong and Funky Kong. Rare had no impact on the game at all.


Geno and the other hand, is owned by Square Enix.
Nintendo isn't allowed to use him in anything, unless they get Square's permission.
Hence why outside of Smash and SMRPG, he's only made 1 cameo appearance since his initial debut: Superstar Saga (in which he was removed for the remake in 2017)

If you want to see Geno, wait until the 3rd party video pops up.

 

I think the problem with the Banadana Dee argument is people get themselves hyped up over an echo chamber. I’m a Nintendo fan who’s owned every console and a Smash fan and I didn’t even know who Bandana Dee was until I joined this website. Now obviously Sakurai picks whoever he wants but I don’t think he’s getting in based on popularity

Well i mean he sure is more recognizable than joker.

 

Well i mean he sure is more recognizable than joker.

I love Bandana Dee but you're really underselling Persona 5's popularity, there's the incredibly successful game and all the memes around it which in turn spread awareness

 

Well i mean he sure is more recognizable than joker.

Bro, unless you play Kirby or hang around Smash, I would've never heard about the player 4 of the Kirby franchise.

 

Wow you must be easily entertained

Eh.

OK seriously...

Dixie is a 1st party character; she's owned by Nintendo.
By your logic, and would also have be 3rd party characters and not owned by Nintendo.
And considering has appeared in a lot of modern Mario spinoff games, Rare would have to be consulted in all the games he's in (hint hint: Rare isn't credited on any Mario spinoff game).
And on top of that, all 3 of them appear together in Mario Super Sluggers, alongside DK, Kritter, Tiny Kong and Funky Kong. Rare had no impact on the game at all.


Geno and the other hand, is owned by Square Enix.
Nintendo isn't allowed to use him in anything, unless they get Square's permission.
Hence why outside of Smash and SMRPG, he's only made 1 cameo appearance since his initial debut: Superstar Saga (in which he was removed for the remake in 2017)

If you want to see Geno, wait until the 3rd party video pops up.

Fair enough.