Defining every "alternate costume character"...

Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
987
#1
I'd like to definitively define every official "alternate costume character" in Smash Bros, be them a gender option for the character or straight-up different characters. The problem I currently see is a bit of ambiguity in certain areas I'd like to ask you all about.

So this won't include different character colour copies as seen in the original games like with Yoshi, Piranha Plant, Shiny Pokemon, pre-existing Villager/Inkling outfit variants etc. Unless y'all would argue otherwise.

So we first have the obvious separate characters usually referred to by name assuming the character title isn't a general one that fits all of the skin characters. So for example, Meta Knight's two alts aren't specifically called something other than Meta Knight, so those don't count.

Nana (you can play as the other Ice Climber through half the costumes, so that counts, right?)
Alph
Larry, Roy, Wendy, Iggy, Morton, Lemmy, Ludwig
Arusu, Solo, Eight


And then you have the alternate gender costumes.

Pikachu
Pichu
(Spiky-Eared that's a female, so that counts, right? It may be the only costume with an implicit gender at least, so maybe it doesn't fall under this area?)
Pokemon Trainer
Villager
Wii Fit Trainer
Robin
Corrin
Inkling
Mii Brawler
(different gender Mii Fighters can have their own announcer voice clips in foreign languages like Pokemon Trainer, Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin (?, has the two announcer name voice clips in Sound Test like the others) and Inkling so it counts. Of course there's like a bajillion different Mii Fighters you can make regardless lol)
Mii Swordfighter
Mii Gunner


My queries:

-What is the "default" for Female Pikachu? The hat one comes first, which would match how the "default" female Villager is the pink one that is listed first, same with the default male Inkling, but Pikachu Libre is a much more special and important alt, being an existing Pikachu costume thing introduced in Smash for the first time ever.
-On that note, does Pikachu Libre, as well as Agent 3 for the Inkling, count as being their kinda separate characters from the games (thus making for TWO separate Female Pikachu characters?)? Does Spiky-Eared Pichu fall under the same area? It'd fit with the rule of "no implicit different name because the character's name is a general title", and Agent 3 is sorta referred to as so in a Japanese Nintendo Direct.
 
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Xelrog

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#2
For all intents and purposes, all pokemon are "its." Yes, if you're a Pokemon superfan (I am, believe me) there are gender differences you can pick out. But little girls aren't picking Pikachu Libre on the character select because it's a girl. Not really any point in distinguishing them.

As for other characters, I would say the differentiation is only valid if the artwork is completely different. Totally new pose captured. By that standard, the Villagers and Miis don't qualify, but all the others listed do. That's how I would define an alt rather than just a costume.
 

Mogisthelioma

Smash Master
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#4
First, on the topic of alternate costumes, allow me to express my annoyance that we haven't gotten player 2 amiibos for :ultrobinf::ultwiifittrainerm::ultvillagerf::ultwario::ultalph:. I know some people see them as largely irrelevant but they'd be nice additions to the collection.

Anyway, I'd say you could argue Meta Knight's alternate costumes lean on the side of other characters since they changed the artwork for them to add extra's (Dark MK's scar and sword, GK's helmet and sword). Same for Ridley and Joker.

To answer your question, I'd say the hat is the "default" female Pikachu since it comes first and retains most of the original design. Pikachu Libre is a much more special costume so I'd say it's certainly not a default. Your second question implies that Agent 3 and Pikachu Libre might count as separate characters in the same way Alph and the Koopalings do, but I'd argue not quite since they're still named the same character. They're in the same boat as Meta Knight and Ridley.
 
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Joined
Apr 10, 2010
Messages
987
#5
I mean, if the separate persona Dr. Mario is a separate character, where does it end?

Heh, but yeah, maybe keep it to "totally separate entities"; it's the slot separation that makes Mario and Dr. Mario separate, so Mario with a Wedding Hat isn't on the same level.

First, on the topic of alternate costumes, allow me to express my annoyance that we haven't gotten player 2 amiibos for :ultrobinf::ultwiifittrainerm::ultvillagerf::ultwario::ultalph:. I know some people see them as largely irrelevant but they'd be nice additions to the collection.

Anyway, I'd say you could argue Meta Knight's alternate costumes lean on the side of other characters since they changed the artwork for them to add extra's (Dark MK's scar and sword, GK's helmet and sword). Same for Ridley and Joker.

To answer your question, I'd say the hat is the "default" female Pikachu since it comes first and retains most of the original design. Pikachu Libre is a much more special costume so I'd say it's certainly not a default. Your second question implies that Agent 3 and Pikachu Libre might count as separate characters in the same way Alph and the Koopalings do, but I'd argue not quite since they're still named the same character. They're in the same boat as Meta Knight and Ridley.
So on the topic of "not quite" separate characters, I guess Sakurai calls her Pika-Libre in a direct and in the Japanese August Direct they gave the costume the Agent 3 nickname in the Tourney section, but that's an easy call for anyone to do and not quite on that "different announcer titling and voice clip" level. Although I'd kinda argue with Pikachu and Inkling they happen to have a general species title for all variations to fall under, but maybe they'd still have different announcer clips if they were truly those members of the Pikachu and Inkling species?

For that matter, does Spiky Eared Pichu fall under that area too? That's a character with a physical deformity represented here under the species title of Pichu, even focused on specifically in the intro here (though again, easy call):
So should she count as the alternate gender alt for Pichu, being female in the games while the rest of the alts are ambiguous, or does she also fall into Libre and Agent 3's area of "it doesn't count in part because of no alternate title in-game". Like even as a gender alt, it's not quite Pikachu levels of gender differentiation because the other 7 alts are still completely ambiguous, so they could technically sorta all be considered female.
 
Joined
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Messages
987
#6
Okay, thread bump. Agent 3 actually could fall under the area of "resembles certain character, but isn't because of lacking a certain detail" (Blood Falcon, Dark Meta Knight, Fierce Deity Link) because she has incorrect skin tone and eye colour.

With Spiky-Eared Pichu though, she has the same physical attribute to make them a certain Pokemon thing as the female Pikachu does in this game, and kinda doubles as a gender alt considering the other alts are ambiguous because they're not a specific Pichu that's one-of-a-kind and a certain gender. But maybe that still falls under "alts that don't count as separate characters because the name's the same"?

Pika Libre looks pretty darn spot on to the "real" Pika Libre too, though I guess you could view the Libre costume as "Female Pikachu that happens to be wearing a Libre Pikachu costume", in part because it doesn't come first in the list. I don't know, Sakurai specifically referred to it as Pika Libre in the first Direct, but it's not called that by the announcer, not that that makes the Hero variations the same entity. It's just weird that if you did count Pika Libre as separate, you'd thus perhaps have to count the other female Pikachu as well considering she's not that Female Pikachu in the Libre outfit, and comes first and is in no way suggested to be the Libre Pikachu that's just wearing non-Libre attire? Libre Pikachu also happens to have a Fighter Spirit, but maybe that's because it's a costume?

My head hurts. That hopefully thus covers all the alts currently in Smash :crazy:
EDIT: I'm willing to count Spiky Eared and Libre as separate characters, but would the other Female Pikachu counted as well be overkill? My thing here counts the alternate sex of a character which Libre falls under, but shouldn't it also count the hat female Pikachu because it's female, but also not necessarily the same character as Pikachu Libre????
 
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