Dedede's Future In The Metagame

[Deleted member]

To put it short, Dedede has had it very rough compared to other characters in Smash 4. He has noticeably massive flaws that disallow him from competing consistently at top level: his huge hurtbox and fast falling speed making him the easiest character to combo, nothing to threaten shield, terrible frame data, a combo throw much less versatile than other characters on the roster, and he has much more trouble closing out a stock compared to other heavyweights. All of these issues, combined with Dedede's lack of attention in patches besides getting a bunch of unneeded nerfs in 1.0.4 and poor tournament representation overall has heavily hurt his viability and others' perception of him overtime. Almost any tier list I see has him in bottom 10 or bottom 5, a sentiment I really can't disagree with at this point.

This character is bad. However, I simply don't have the same amount of fun or joy I do playing as Dedede. He's such an endearing character, and being able to climb up against the odds and win with him feels so satisfying. I'm not gonna drop him anytime soon, and even if he doesn't get anything in February, I'll do my best to push him forward and contribute to his meta as best as I can. I probably won't have him as my competitive main, but I'll be sure to have him as a close secondary. With that said, I don't have much hope for this character in the meta unless he gets the much needed attention he deserves through patches. We can only hope and reach out.

How do you feel about where Dedede can go on from here? Where else do you think we could develop him?

 

[shiningpaladin]

To put it short, Dedede has had it very rough compared to other characters in Smash 4. He has noticeably massive flaws that disallow him from competing consistently at top level: his huge hurtbox and fast falling speed making him the easiest character to combo, nothing to threaten shield, terrible frame data, a combo throw much less versatile than other characters on the roster, and he has much more trouble closing out a stock compared to other heavyweights. All of these issues, combined with Dedede's lack of attention in patches besides getting a bunch of unneeded nerfs in 1.0.4 and poor tournament representation overall has heavily hurt his viability and others' perception of him overtime. Almost any tier list I see has him in bottom 10 or bottom 5, a sentiment I really can't disagree with at this point.

This character is bad. However, I simply don't have the same amount of fun or joy I do playing as Dedede. He's such an endearing character, and being able to climb up against the odds and win with him feels so satisfying. I'm not gonna drop him anytime soon, and even if he doesn't get anything in February, I'll do my best to push him forward and contribute to his meta as best as I can. I probably won't have him as my competitive main, but I'll be sure to have him as a close secondary. With that said, I don't have much hope for this character in the meta unless he gets the much needed attention he deserves through patches. We can only hope and reach out.

How do you feel about where Dedede can go on from here? Do you have any optimism for the character left?

I've enjoyed playing DDD since 3ds days He's by far my most favorite character in the whole game. Win or lose his play style is one I enjoy a lot, and I've put in a lot of time with him so dropping him to secondary would suck for me personally. Funny thing to is before I picked up DDD I was playing Rosalina a lot, but ended having more fun with DDD though especially before they nerfed his gordos lol; My friends would get mad at how hard they were to reflect. I also did use ZSS a bit too before as a secondary, thing is I sucked at speedy characters (still kinda do). Currently I'm trying to contribute to DDD's meta which I don't think I'm helping much now but I'm learning as a go and will hopefully get better. I picked up kirby as a secondary ironically lol he plays kinda like paper weight DDD minus gordos.

I think DDD Buff or not will have a hard time placing decent on anyones' tier list to be honest. Like you said DDD has a lot of issues, and as result doesn't have a lot of reps, with the only tourney players with a good recond being BigD, and Jdawg. People also putting him low on virtually every tier list only discourages some people more. DDD just has the whole world against him so to speak lol. That just the thing though, Kicking someones buns with this penguin is just fun, I have however, had moments of frustrations with how easy it is for him to get booped and not having a lot to do back. Even when I see players like Jdawg and BigD they have to be super careful just cause once you're opponent gets in they can literally combo you till stock if you aren't careful and that's a crappy feeling.

Regardless I enjoy this character I don't care if he ends up bottom of the tier list. Plus picking up Kirby made DDD even more fun for me cause its just an awesome set of characters to play.

 

[PeliPenguin]

The character archtype of 'big,slow and powerful' that Dedede has means he'll never be a super relevant character in tournaments, the main reason he was good in Brawl was because he could shut down over half the cast with one move (and bair was amazing).

Sadly, whilst the other heavies got buffs that made them at least niches in the metagame, Dedede has remained pretty bad. Unless he gets some amazing buffs hes going to remain that way and probably go even lower on the tier list once everyone figures out how to fight him. I could honestly see him being a bottom 5 character.

Its a huge shame, because I absolutely love everything about this character... but he can't win when has to. I only ever use him in friendlies and For Glory.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

Lol I literally physically could not stop playing Dedede even if I wanted to. And I don't.

That's really all there is to it.

 

[Putuk]

Well, we can only go up from here.
However, unless some patch magic happens, we arn't going up. We arn't going down either, we're just plain STUCK.

I suggest a sacrifice to the volcano gods.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, we can only go up from here.
However, unless some patch magic happens, we arn't going up. We arn't going down either, we're just plain STUCK.

I suggest a sacrifice to the volcano gods.

Fast-forwarding two months later, the sacrifice to the volcano gods only got us nerfed!

 

[abx]

NO It was our lack of faith! The volcano gods never disappoint the believers!

 

[Axel311]

At this point the only role I think he maybe could serve is as a surprise counterpick to confuse opponents or for mindgames in matchups against a couple relevant high tiers where he goes about even with or at worst has a small disadvantage. come to mind.

But even then, it's hard to imagine good players not knowing the Dedede matchup by now, even if he is a rare character to face in bracket. It's really not hard to learn.

But yeah unfortunately I think DDD really doesn't have anywhere to go and I don't see him ever becoming viable again. His weaknesses are way too exploitable. It seems like pretty everyone else except a small dedicated few has dropped him at this point.

It's too bad because I love playing him. If they'd just give him a strong kill throw, or a kill confirm out of grab like DK/Bowser he'd be viable. But as of right now he's definitely bottom 10.

 

[Flawed]

D3 is still a wildcard. He's probably going to be forever a wildcard.
No one except other D3 mains know how to destroy him. Everyone else barely knows the matchup. A ton of people know his weaknesses, but to seriously lame out D3, you have to know him.

We must remain vigilant and keep our secrets.

 

[Deleted member]

D3 is still a wildcard. He's probably going to be forever a wildcard.
No one except other D3 mains know how to destroy him. Everyone else barely knows the matchup. A ton of people know his weaknesses, but to seriously lame out D3, you have to know him.

We must remain vigilant and keep our secrets.

Dedede is literally one of the easiest matchups in the game to learn even if you end up losing to one in bracket, particularly if it's a top player that loses to one.

 

[Axel311]

D3 is still a wildcard. He's probably going to be forever a wildcard.
No one except other D3 mains know how to destroy him. Everyone else barely knows the matchup. A ton of people know his weaknesses, but to seriously lame out D3, you have to know him.

We must remain vigilant and keep our secrets.

I disagree, it's not that hard. His weaknesses of slow speed and bad frame data are pretty obvious. Stay just outside ftilt range, force/bait a commitment (which is most of his moveset sadly since so few things are safe for Dedede in neutral) and punish. Rinse/repeat. Or if you're projectile based throw stuff and run away. As a former Dedede main, that's pretty much the meat of what you need to know about fighting Dedede.

 

[Flawed]

I disagree, it's not that hard. His weaknesses of slow speed and bad frame data are pretty obvious. Stay just outside ftilt range, force/bait a commitment (which is most of his moveset sadly since so few things are safe for Dedede in neutral) and punish. Rinse/repeat. Or if you're projectile based throw stuff and run away. As a former Dedede main, that's pretty much the meat of what you need to know about fighting Dedede.

While it is easy to fight, I'm not seeing it. People here are all struggle vs him, no one shuts him down like they theoritically should. Even Anti had trouble when he came to our state.

Like honestly only 2 players have literally shut me down completely, Scatt and NickRiddle.

If we were so easy , we would be drowning in pools everywhere

 

[Axel311]

While it is easy to fight, I'm not seeing it. People here are all struggle vs him, no one shuts him down like they theoritically should. Even Anti had trouble when he came to our state.

Like honestly only 2 players have literally shut me down completely, Scatt and NickRiddle.

If we were so easy , we would be drowning in pools everywhere

I mean it's all matchup dependent. Dedede has a lot of 60-40 matchups where he can do ok and he beats some of the heavies I think but I don't see how any Dedede can do well against really good players who use top tiers and know the matchup....Dedede just doesn't have the frame data, mobility or the approaching tools to keep up with most of them. I really don't know of any Dedede's taking a set off of a top player. I know Big D almost beat ESAM once, but other than that I haven't seen any highish placing by Dededes in majors.

 

[Deleted member]

I mean it's all matchup dependent. Dedede has a lot of 60-40 matchups where he can do ok and he beats some of the heavies I think but I don't see how any Dedede can do well against really good players who use top tiers and know the matchup....Dedede just doesn't have the frame data or the approaching tools to keep up. I really don't know of any Dedede's taking a set off of a top player. I know Big D almost beat ESAM once, but other than that I haven't seen any highish placing by Dededes in majors.

There was @El_Bardo getting 25th place I believe at BEAST 6. @CaptainVul also got 33rd place at Dismantle 2.

But honestly, Dedede will drop far off once people figure out the matchup at lower and mid levels, where most of his success thrives. I won't be surprised if he ends up being bottom 3.

 

[Zethoro]

There was @El_Bardo getting 25th place I believe at BEAST 6. @CaptainVul also got 33rd place at Dismantle 2.

But honestly, Dedede will drop far off once people figure out the matchup at lower and mid levels, where most of his success thrives. I won't be surprised if he ends up being bottom 3.

Big D got 17th at Paragon too, if I recall.

 

[Flawed]

Took a game off M2k at Fusion with Penguin

also took a CONVINCING game off him with bayonetta- go figure

may have actually done work if that tournament didn't start so late