Buuman
Smash Ace
Buuman's Informative DDD Database & Down Throw Traps thread
(*The Buuman trap*included)
King Dedede has many crazy aspects to his grab game aside from just chain grabbing. This is a guide to King King Dedede's strategies aside from the standard chain grab (will go into detail about options and audibles after down throw), a few tricks, statistics, facts, helpful threads for tournament players (all of these threads I have read thoroughly and feel it would be useful to Dedede players), and a list of options and guidelines of what to do against characters in certain situations. Lets get to it.
(*The Buuman trap*included)
King Dedede has many crazy aspects to his grab game aside from just chain grabbing. This is a guide to King King Dedede's strategies aside from the standard chain grab (will go into detail about options and audibles after down throw), a few tricks, statistics, facts, helpful threads for tournament players (all of these threads I have read thoroughly and feel it would be useful to Dedede players), and a list of options and guidelines of what to do against characters in certain situations. Lets get to it.
INDEX:
Section I - Useful threads organized for the Dedede community
Section II - Tech Chasing With the King
a. The Buuman Trap
b. Reviews
Section III - tricks, tips, facts, and/or statistics
a. Facts
b. Grab Laws
c. Range of Dededes Grabs
d. Physics and Applications of Waddle Dees and Doos
e. Ledge Options
f. Frame Data and Percents
g. Characters that can Chain Grab Dedede
h. Tripping Data and Facts
i. Projectiles that the F tilt Stops
j. Super Armor
k. Objects that can be inhaled
Section IV - Follow ups from down throw
a. Characters that can't be f tilted after a down throw
b. Characters that can be Down Tilted at the edge after a down throw
c. Characters that can DI out of the down throw tech chase
Section V - vertical killing data, stages with low ceilings, %s of up smash and up tilt kills
Sec. I
Useful threads:
+"Buu's Video thread (Tourney matches etc.)" by Buuman
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225756
+"Brickwalls and Traps: The keys to victory" by Emblem Lord
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183816
Great thread for keeping foes at bay, causing frustration, and so much more.
+"The Physics of Attacks (DI included)" by Scotu
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?p=4158733
Many useful facts, about momentum canceling, DI, smash DI, hitstun...you name it.
+"Enemies of the Crown: The Official King Dedede matchup thread" by Gates
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=192600
Contributions made by the Dedede community on matchups
+"Playing to Learn" by MookieRah
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176650
AMAZING THREAD, highly recommend reading
+"Keep Losing? Try this..." by cwjalex http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=160643
Amazing thread that makes you look at the game in a whole new view. One of the most influential threads I've read
+" Formula and Proofs to King Dededes Chain Grab (Finished 12/21/08)"
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204082&page=2
My chaingrab formula, with some example of distance and why the shield grab chain grab is more effective.
Sec. II
Tech Chasin' with the King
This is absolutely crucial for all of you die hard Dedede mains out there that play against opponents whose characters can't be chain grabbed. (Back throw is also great for damage, but at certain areas on the stage, tech chasin' tops the back throw - (16% right off the bat fresh)
Tech Chasing - With King Dededes down throw, many characters CANNOT be chain grabbed. You will notice the difference, because the characters that cannot be chain grabbed will hit the ground and now are forced to do something. This, in my opinion is one of the funnest aspects of dededes grab game. They only have FOUR options! (if they miss the tech)
Roll left
Roll right
stand up in place
and get up attack
This is amazing because if you can read them well, you can get series of grabs off which can be more damaging than a chain grab. Now you don't have to always follow up a tech chase with another grab...no no no, you have many other options.
I will describe a few options for certain situations:
Down B - I usually do this when I can anticipate where the person is going to roll, or if they start jumping out of tech chases, like kirby, and squirtle. Omegablackmage - "A very intimidating move"
Side B - for characters that have long rolls if you react late on a tech chase. Great option for reacting late, you are keeping you opponent on their toes, and applying pressure. Even if they perfect shield it, you are still out of harms way.
Forward Tilt - solid move in general for guaranteed damage if you read a roll correctly. Although not that damaging (6%), has great reach.
Inhale - Great every now and then, because if you begin inhaling them when they're on the ground, they begin getting pulled towards you, and if they decide to roll away...they get inhaled during their roll. Inhale is decent it does (10%) right off the bat, and is good for placement.
Also, if you space yourself right, if they get up, and you inhale they can't react quick enough after their get up in place. Same applies for get up attacks. *
*KEEP IN MIND DEDEDE HAS SUPER ARMOR FRAMES WHEN AN OBJECT OR OPPONENT BEGINS THE ANIMATION OF BEING INHALED - (right as they go into the tumbling in midair animation).
Down Tilt - Great move, come's out extremely fast, has a huge, high priority hit box that has a long duration.
I use this usually when I anticipate someone that has to think from a tech chase (Due to earlier failures in the match, where they just roll on instinct and I punish them) Use this after you've punished your opponent with tech chases, so they have to think that extra millisecond before making their move, but before the thought even pops into their head, you've down tilted them.
Note: Inhale destroys spot dodgers out of tech chasing.
*This will be updated, and many more attacks will be added to this list in the future.
And don't forget guys, you can stop your run by doing ANY B moves. Inhale applies as well.
The Buuman Trap
(Devised and used by me )
See video below for the actual application during tourney:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o4v7-r10C8
<_________________> <-- This is Final Destination
The legendary tech chase that is unavoidable if the 12 non chaingrabbable characters miss a tech after being down throwed by Dedede. Back last year, I was doing this all of the time, without even realizing that my opponent couldn't escape getting nailed by the down smash. Back when most dedede would back throw for the damage because you can't chaingrab the un chaingrabbable and felt that tech chasing was risky. Now I didn't miraculously come up with this. I rarely missed when I set up the tech chase which today is called the Buuman trap.
At one point, I asked OBM (Omegablackmage) "Why is it, that I always land that move...?" So I told him to stand still, with various chars, like metaknight, and to let me space the tech chase right. I told him to try everything. But with naturally good timing on my part, there was nothing he could do unless he teched the ground.
Months ago, I resurrected this technique in text form on the dedede boards. I look back now and realize that I didn't give much history or explanation where this actually came from. I'm in the process of evolving my guide to a more informative level. I hope that this helps you all.
At one point, I asked OBM (Omegablackmage) "Why is it, that I always land that move...?" So I told him to stand still, with various chars, like metaknight, and to let me space the tech chase right. I told him to try everything. But with naturally good timing on my part, there was nothing he could do unless he teched the ground.
Months ago, I resurrected this technique in text form on the dedede boards. I look back now and realize that I didn't give much history or explanation where this actually came from. I'm in the process of evolving my guide to a more informative level. I hope that this helps you all.
<_________________> <-- This is Final Destination
x - symbolizes Dedede
x - symbolizes opponent
x - symbolizes opponent
*Now obviously this is just a visual so it's not going to be 100% accurate. I will try to make this as easy to understand as possible.
Step 1: Postition yourself similar to the diagram after the down throw.
Note: This can be done on ANY stage! FD is just used as and example
<_x_X_______X_ x_>
\_____________/
<_x__X_____X__ x_>
\_____________/
\_____________/
*They should be on the ground either on the left or right side of the stage, and you should be facing them
Step 2: Start charging a down smash.
Step 2: Start charging a down smash.
<_x__X_____X__ x_>
\_____________/
The result - you lean back during the charge and although this diagram doesn't show you directly, you're out of harms way during the down smash charge, when released, Dedede leans forward to the neutral position again.
These locations, in my experience are death zones. So anyway when your opponent has failed to tech and they are in these positions, get ready to orgasm. Vids WILL BE UP OF THIS used in my tourney matches. I've been keeping this to myself for awhile but have told a select few people about it like Omegablackmage.
Notice this scenario, your opponent is on the ground, and your just far enough away from them to get hit by their get up attack? Well stay tuned, because this is an insane way around their attack plus a 100% guaranteed Down Smash.
The crucial ingredient to why this works and through hours of development and testing:
In this situation, wait until you see a frame of motion from your opponent, and begin charging a Down SMASH. Here's something many of you probably don't know
King Dedede leans back when he charges a down smash
They can't do anything to get around this.
-If they roll to the edge, the end of the stage prevents them from getting their complete distance of their roll, and the tip of the hammer will nick them if you've spaced yourself correctly.
-If they roll to you, release the smash (the spin guarantees 100% precision).
-If they get up in place, they should get hit by the solid middle of the hammer
-If they get up attack, it will miss due to the lean back animation thanks to the charge of the down smash
Reviews
lain ~ "Buuman trap is ****."
PC Chris ~ "Im glad I didn't play you
"Fatal ~ buumann has the best d3 hands down in NE and maybe better than atomsk
sMexy-Blu ~ "The enemy can't avoid it thats why its called "The Buuman Trap" lolz"
T3h Albino ~ "Use the buuman trap ***** works"
RATED ~ "I am using the Buuman's trap , I started to use it against human players yesterday and it works wonders. thanks buuman."
Jupz ~ "it works well :D I just gotta learn how to space it well :D"
TheMnm ~ "Great guide
Semifer ~ "The Buuman trap is broken"
Sec. III
Tricks, Tips, facts, and/or Statistics
Facts
-Dedede weight is 1.071(4th heaviest)
-Dedede Horizontal Air Speed is 2.10 (slowest)
-Dedede Fall Speed is 0.29 (relatively fast)
-Fully charged jet hammer damages you up to 150%
-Footstooling someone in the air onto the stage forces them to stand up in place
-Inhale with no spit (your opponent must be resisting) takes away up bs like snake, GW, and sonic.
-Press A 4 times to initiate the third jab of Dedede's jab combo.
Cool Up Tilt Facts
~Most importantly, up tilt has invincibility frames if you connect with it, during the first half of the animation
-Up tilt can break any projectile (Grenades {Which blow up, without causing damage to dedede due to invincibility}, thunder shock, aura sphere, fire balls, bombs and so much more) to the half way point where dedede flails his head from front to back
-Up tilt can jump over olimars grab, meta knights down smash, and other moves that are low to the ground. This has to be done when dedede does the jumping part animation of the up tilt.
-Up tilt, if timed right can protect you from the lava wave on norair
~Most importantly, up tilt has invincibility frames if you connect with it, during the first half of the animation
-Up tilt can break any projectile (Grenades {Which blow up, without causing damage to dedede due to invincibility}, thunder shock, aura sphere, fire balls, bombs and so much more) to the half way point where dedede flails his head from front to back
-Up tilt can jump over olimars grab, meta knights down smash, and other moves that are low to the ground. This has to be done when dedede does the jumping part animation of the up tilt.
-Up tilt, if timed right can protect you from the lava wave on norair
Tips(NEW!)
Inhale has an invisible hitbox that takes away momentum. Against snake, if he tries to C4 recover, go above him and inhale. Not so that you suck him up, but so it takes away momentum from his C4 blast. I will go into depth with this later. But you can literally be 10 feet above snake (nowhere near him) and use the inhale invisible hitbox to stop his c4 recovery.
*You must be directly above snake for this to work
Dedede falls so fast (Fastest faller in the game) that short hop air dodging, or fast falling air dodging into up tilts/grabs works wonders.
Crouch into up tilt has no lag and can evade items thrown such as grenades and evades aerials above platforms like GWs dair
*Tricks*
Running Z grab - Run towards any item on the ground, release the control stick as you approach and press Z.
Effect: You will pick up the item during a run.
Note: You must initiate Dededes running animation, and not his fox trot, once you get past the initial acceleration and reach top velocity, this trick can be put to effect.
Swallow Spike - Near the edge, if you're opponent is grabbing the ledge, and you think they're going to do a ledge hop arial, space the inhale so that if they jump up, they're going to get inhaled.
Effect: If they performed an arial during the ascend of their ledge hop, and the arial comes out before they reach the horizontal of the stage, the invsible inhale htbox pulls them and spikes them up into the stage.
Double Jump Dair - Tap jump twice in quick succession and immediately tap down on the C stick to initiate the dair.
Effect: Zero landing lag, covers dedede pretty well, protecting him from most punishment. It's quite mobile, keeps the head of the hammer close enough to the ground to land all of the hit, but at the same time, far enough away from the ground to protect from landing lag like the short hop dair.
Effect: You will pick up the item during a run.
Note: You must initiate Dededes running animation, and not his fox trot, once you get past the initial acceleration and reach top velocity, this trick can be put to effect.
Swallow Spike - Near the edge, if you're opponent is grabbing the ledge, and you think they're going to do a ledge hop arial, space the inhale so that if they jump up, they're going to get inhaled.
Effect: If they performed an arial during the ascend of their ledge hop, and the arial comes out before they reach the horizontal of the stage, the invsible inhale htbox pulls them and spikes them up into the stage.
Double Jump Dair - Tap jump twice in quick succession and immediately tap down on the C stick to initiate the dair.
Effect: Zero landing lag, covers dedede pretty well, protecting him from most punishment. It's quite mobile, keeps the head of the hammer close enough to the ground to land all of the hit, but at the same time, far enough away from the ground to protect from landing lag like the short hop dair.
Grab Laws
*If you shield grab chain grab perfectly, you will get more grabs/chain grabs off overall.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=204082&page=2
*If you down throw immediately after a re grab during the chain grab, the sliding animation will be negated
*If you want to change the distance of the slide during a chain grab, wait a minimal amount of time between dash grabs, OR grab attack during the chain grab, you will get the same effect.
*If you input a grab during your running animation you will dash grab. It MUST be finished in order to do a standing grab, this includes the ending part of the dash animation, when Dedede slows down.
Range of Dededes grabs
Longest reach - Pivot Grab
(Does not count as a dash grab for grab releases)
Mid reach - Standing Grab
Shortest reach - Dash Grab
(Good for air grab releases ex.'Wario')
Physics and Applications of Waddle Dees and Doos
Side B Notes - You will auto pick up Waddle Dees and Doos when you are near them if: You press Jab, F tilt, D tilt, and if you air dodge near it. YOU CAN UP TILT WADDLES without worrying about auto picking up
-Waddles (Dees(5%), and Doos(7%)) can be angled up or down by rolling the control stick up or down after the initial side B input
-Waddles' (Dees(5%), and Doos(7%)) distance can be changed by tilting/smashing the control stick during the side B input.
A Few Safe Ledge Options
10% damage, Invincibility frames, crazy range, and decent hit stun
Ledge Hop Up air-
(Let go of the ledge, use a jump and up air simultaneously)
Up air nails them for 19%, and you can re grab the ledge, using the stage as a shield)
Ledge Jump Dair
(From the ledge, input the jump command, and down air simultaneously)
-You will provide a damaging shield between you and your opponent, if they're near the ledge
FRAME DATA and PERCENTS
2-20 - Invincibility frames duration ~ 25 - Total number of frames
Spot Dodge
2-20 ~ 27
Back Roll
4-19 ~ 32
Foward Roll
4-19 ~ 32
Air Dodge
4-29 ~ 39
1st Jab
Fresh - 6%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
Second Jab
Fresh - 5%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
Third Jab
Fresh - 2% per spin
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 1% per spin
Forward Tilt (12 frames)
Fresh - 6%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
Down Tilt (7 frames)
Fresh - 10%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 4%
Up Tilt (12 frames)
Fresh - 12%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 5%
Dash Attack (26 frames)
Fresh - 16%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 7%
Forward Air (16 frames)
Fresh - 15%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 6%
Up Air (10 frames)
Fresh (every hit) - 19%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 8%
Down Air (8 frames)
Fresh (every hit) - 17%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 7%
Back Air (6 frames)
Fresh - 13%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 5%
Neutral Air (7 frames)
1st part (fresh) - 12% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 5%
2nd part (fresh) - 7% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 3%
Forward Smash (43 frames)
Middle of Hammer /fresh/[UNCHARGED] - 24% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 11%
Middle of Hammer /fresh/[CHARGED] - 33% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 15%
Ground wave /fresh/[UNCHARGED] - 5% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
Ground wave /fresh/[CHARGED] - 7% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 3%
Up Smash (20 frames)
Fresh[UNCHARGED] - 14% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 6%
Fresh[CHARGED] - 19% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 9%
Down Smash (14 frames)
Fresh[UNCHARGED] - 15% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 6%
Fresh[CHARGED] - 21% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 9%
Neutral B (Inhale)
Fresh - 10%
Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 4%
Side B
Fresh (Waddle Dee) - 5% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 2%
Fresh (Waddle Doo) - 7% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 3%
\
\------> Doo Beam does 30% (if every hit connected)
Fresh (Gordo) - 26% Decayed fully ( 9 attack queue ) - 10%
Characters that can chain grab King Dedede
Falco
Down Throw -> 54%
Pikachu
Down Throw -> 90+%
Wario
->Standing infinite boost grab
Dthrow, boost Dthrow until around 192%
Ice Climbers
D-Throw / F-Throw / B-Throw -> Any move
->Infinite ( The D-throw chaingrab is NOT an Infinite)
Lucario
Side-B -> 52%
Marth
F-Throw -> Dash Attack / Fair / Nair /Dair
-> 50%
Yoshi
Grab Release -> Fair
->Infinite
Bowser
Grab Release -> Neutral A/Side B
->Infinite
King Dedede
Down Throw->Ftilt
->Any %
Wall Infinites/Chain Grabs
Marth
Dtilt
->%??
Metaknight
Dtilt
->%?
Mr. Game and Watch
Dtilt
->%?
Donkey Kong
Dtilt->%?
Similar to Marths
Ledge Infinites/Chain Grabs
*These infinites can be performed at a ledge of a stage or platform.
King Dedede
Down Throw-> Infinite, down tilt, etc.
Donkey Kong
Down throw -> Infinite, down tilt, down smash
Wolf
Down throw -> Infinite, down tilt
Bowser
Down Throw -> Down tilt, down smash, side B
Yoshi
Down throw -> down tilt
Snake
Down Throw -> Down tilt
Attacks that cause tripping
*Less than or equal to means "<="
Down tilt - <= 18%
Bair - <= 10%
Down B (Uncharged) - Between 10-15%
Foward air - Between 10-14%
Projectiles that the F tilt negates
Pits' Arrows
Ice Blocks
Pikachus' Thunder Shock
Razor leaf
Diddy's Peanuts
Aura sphere {CHARGED and UNCHARGED} (Dedede can F tilt a fully charged aura sphere when lucario is at 38% and its fresh)
Fireballs
Ness and Lucas' PK Fire and PK thunder
Boomerangs
Arrows (Link and Toon Link)
Samus' Charge beam (Uncharged)
Samus' Missles
Super Armor
-Inhale has super armor frames during the initial suck up animation!
-Up B has super armorframes up until his velocity has reached zero (Until he has reached the peak of his Up B)
Objects that can be inhaled
*Snakes' grenades, and his proximity Mine (Glitch)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ya8dhMpspHQ
*ROBs' GYRO(Charged and uncharged)
*Warios' Bike (and pieces)
*Zero suit samus' Armor Pieces
*Diddy Kongs' Bananas
*King Dededes'Waddle dees and Waddle doos(NOT GORDOS!
)*Peachs' turnips
*Toon Link and Links' bombs
Sec. V
Follow ups from down throw
Snake - *Only fthrow snake off stage when youre in a position where you wont be able to edgeguard him after the downthrow because he'll slide to the ledge
IF SNAKE...
Double jumps right away either straight up or away from the stage - F-tilt his Second jump (forcing him to Up B) edge guard him or WoP him with Forward airs and Back airs.
Up Bs Close to you - cyhper grab him
Double Jumps towards you - grab him which forces him to Up B, and grab him a last time out of his Up B
Jumps to ledge (too high for any grab follow ups) - D tilt his Second jump then **** him accordingly.
*If snake starts jumping to the ledge perfectly, run and grab the ledge, he falls and is forced to up+b then edge guard.
Most characters can be F tilted after a down throw
The characters that can't are:
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Kirby
Squirtle
Characters that can be D tilted at the edge (after a down throw)
Snake
King Dedede
Donkey Kong
Wolf
Yoshi
R.O.B.
Bowser
Charizard
Samus
Ivysaur
NOTE: Some characters can DI up and jump or even Up b out of his down throw
Here's a list of Characters that can DI/jump/attack/or B special out of it
(With respect to a missed tech of course)
Squirtel - Can DI up and Jump out
G&W - DI up Jump and Up B out
Zero Suit Samus - DI up and Down B out
Kirby - DI up and jump out
Sec. VI
Vertical Data
Up Tilt Killing Percents with DI
(Tested in the direct center of FD, with best DI possible, and best option for momentum canceling with each character)
META KNIGHT - DIES at 100% DIES at Halberd at 93%
Pikachu - DIES at 107%
FALCO - DIES at 109%
Snake - DIES at 132%
Mr. GAME & WATCH - DIES at 98%
Olimar - DIES at 103%
Marth - DIES at 110%
Toon link - DIES at 109%
Diddy Kong - DIES at 111%
Kirby - DIES at 99%
Killing up with Dedede, stage choices, and ceiling heights
(I just picked out, organized and simplified it down for Dedede players)
Percent damage required to be killed by a fully-charged Mario up-smash on Final Destination; Mario up-smash was chosen due to its large and low hitbox, along with almost straight vertical knockback.
99%
Uncharged Up-Smash Killing Power, Grounded Opponent
(Dedede performed a C-stick uncharged up-smash on Mario immediately in front of him; the percentage required to kill on Final Destination is given
109% (103% for u-tilt)
Charged Up-Smash Killing Power, Grounded Opponent
(Dedede performed a fully charged up-smash on Mario immediately in front of him; the percentage required to kill on Final Destination is again given.)
72%
Uncharged Up-Smash Killing Power, Aerial Opponent
Dedede performed a C-stick uncharged up-smash on Mario immediately above him on right-side platform of Battlefield; the percentage required to kill is given:
100 (95 for u-tilt...)%
Charged Up-Smash Killing Power, Aerial Opponent:
D3 performed a full charged up-smash on Mario immediately above him on right-side platform of Battlefield; the percentage required to kill is again given.
65%
Up-Aerial Killing Power
D3 performed short-hop up-air, dair, and Up B on Mario immediately above them on right-side platform of Battlefield; the percentage required to kill is given.
143% - Up air
143% - Down air
95% - Up B
Stage Ceiling Height
(highest to lowest, from bottom platform)
(Amount of damage required for grounded Mario to be KO'd by an undiminished, fully charged Mario up-smash. Less damage needed = lower ceiling. Damages/heights are listed for major platforms as well on some stages, in ascending order. Some stages that were difficult (like Delfino) were not closely examined, and some stages no one cares about were skipped entirely.) (highest to lowest, from bottom platform)
Jungle Japes: 100/97/93 <---bad stage for D3 IMO, sinks in water, water helps foes recovery, and can't kill with up tilt here, nor edge guard
Pirate Ship: 85
Havenbow: 85
Pictochat: 84
Pokemon Stadium 2: 83/75
Battlefield: 82/75/68
FD: 82
Delfino: 82
Norfair: 82/74/67
Yoshi's Island: 82/75
Lylat Cruise: 82/74
Castle Siege: 82-88-81
Smashville: 82/74
Frigate: 81-77
Brinstar: 81/74/68
Halberd: 77/75/68-73/65 <-- awesome stage for dedede
Rainbow Ride: 75
Corneria: 74/70/57
*Credit goes to Thinkman
Hope this helped
