Dealing with fox fullhop

[Dakarun]

Fox's full hop is the bane of my existence right now; about 80% of the time I approach this fox I'm playing against will just full hop and I'm left with a plethora of options to pick, but most of them I feel pretty lack luster compared to what fox can do in the air.

I thought about this long and hard, and here are all the options I play out in my head:
-space myself so I can stuff him with my up-tilt, but this is difficult to time as it depends on if fox wants to double jump, fast fall, etc. And so if I whiff I get punished, but in most cases we trade attacks, but I think the risk reward isn't worth it after trying this out many times
-trying to get him to hit my shield and try to shine out of shield, but this is pretty useless if they space their aerials or go for the tomahawk grab...
-waiting for them to land then punish might be the optimal option, but that alone is difficult as there is such a small time window; go in too early then I get hit with some aerial, too late and they run away or do the full hop again...
-lasering is something I have not found success in, I can never get that perfect distance where I laser him just as he is falling, if he is too close I get hit as I laser, too far and we are back at neutral...
-chase after him in the air with a shine, but if they react I'll gets stuffed with some aerial
-I've found some success and spacing a bair, but it doesn't really lead to anything
-only effective on higher percentages, but doing a hard read with a full hop Nair works, but when they do expect it I get punished pretty hard

Lemme know if you come up with any solutions I haven't thought of, I would greatly appreciate any help with this when fox decides to full hop on my approach.

Also I find camping as a solution to present a problem where my back is against the edge of the stage and if he gets me off there I'm dead.

 

[Jim_P]

It is more frustrating if you play against foxes who can only fullhop and still win xD
What I found pretty useful is to find out what they like to do more: dair or nair approach out of the fullhop? If nair just cc and shine.
However, what always worked for me is to run in, wd back and kind of reset to neutral. You can react to whatever option they chose: dj, ff aerial etc..
If you see them doing an aerial go in and punish hard.

Dont know if fox can shine before falco if he hits with his nair ontop of falcos neutral shield, but angleing it up then shine oos works!

 

[1000g2g3g4g800999]

Dash dance, or uptilt as they come down (may trade, do not press the button if they haven't even started falling yet).
Shield for sh aerials, and immediately wd oos if you see them go way over your head.
If at appropriate spacing, especially if they used their DJ, walk slightly out of the way of their arc, and if they try to move more out of the way fsmash. If not, utilt facing away.

 

[FE_Hector]

Alternatively, you can buy into Mang0's thoughts on the MU> He has said that if Falco has to approach in that MU, he's probably losing. DD and fake-out approaches while lasering can put a lot of mental pressure on Fox's, especially ones that don't handle lasering too well. You should be able to stuff aerial approaches with a well-placed utilt or bair. Don't over-complicate the game at all. Just force them to approach you (camp your *** off if you have to) and bait out the stupid options. I know it sounds lame, but it works and is probably a bit more difficult to pull off properly than a lot of people think.

**If you want to know where I heard about that Mang0 advice, it was from the Mike Haze/ Tafo commentary at Mayhem June 2015 GFs**

 

[MALVM MALVM]

You could proactively stifle his jump by shooting high SH lasers. Auto cancel bairs lead into stronger pressure and better positioning. Dash back reverse high lasers are also awesome.

 

[PepaCorn]

Try to up air him out of it you will look sick

 

[LozNerd]

FJ triple laser should work, as well as lasering from neutral.

 

[jamakin]

**If you want to know where I heard about that Mang0 advice, it was from the Mike Haze/ Tafo commentary at Mayhem June 2015 GFs**

he also mentions this in some of his analysis videos, that making them come to you is mostly better

 

[Varist]

so far the comments in here don't seem to understand the OP is talking about fox fullhopping to avoid falco's approach.

you're right op, there's no winning solution for you here that is consistent to pull off except trading with utilt if the fox is falling with dair or bair properly.

The problem is in your approach itself. if the fox is fullhopping your lasers and shffls you have to play a close, tighter approach game. laser in and fullhop nair. get in front of him and fullhop dair on top of his head. laser in then pivot fh bair. and the best approach of all to fullhoppy foxes: laser in and don't commit to anything, then just wait. scare a double jump. then go up there for the kill if he's high percent. if he's low percent cc shine after youve dissuaded him from dairing you with fullhop bair threat conditioning, because dairs do not beat that angle.