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DDD vs MK

∫unk

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
4,952
Location
more than one place
Just some things I know about the matchup:

vs. Tilts

getting hit
MK's traditionally think tilt again or grab after. This is a guessing game that favors MK but remember the reward of getting a grab can make up for taking a few tilt pokes, which is why I think buffering spotdodge is a strong initial option... from there it's about adjustments.

blocking
At maximum range of the tilts I wouldn't fight... I would roll (away is much safer than rolling in) or jump oos and reset your position somehow. You want to be right inside his maximum tilt range, where your grab reaches and his standing grab doesn't. The good thing is it's very difficult for MK to space their tilts without walking and so it's easier to avoid this range.

anything else?
Not really - DDD doesn't have a lot to combat his tilt game besides his monster grab range. MK always reaches in front of him when he tilts so know that you can grab a little farther than normal (ddd's grab range always seems insane when you're grabbing right after a whiffed attack). A lot of MKs rhythmically tilt so you can dash in as he's initiating one and it'll time out so you can grab him.


vs. Tornado

This is a guessing game on their spacing (high/low) and timing. Shield or Jump until you pick up a pattern.

#1 thought should be to NOT GET HIT BY IT. It doesn't matter if MK resets the situation or recovers for free.. that's much better than you getting popped into the air.

Safest "punishments"
• Block -> Roll (sometimes you get more like a grab after... I just assume the MK did a safe Nado here but this positionally gives you the option of punishing if they don't do a good Nado)
• Block -> Waddle Toss (against retreating opponents side b is always safe, the more safe side B's you get the higher odds of a clutch gordo)
• Jump (completely avoiding Nado) -> Waddle Toss as you're falling

*note: waddles near your opponent are really underrated... they extend the opponents attacks which makes it much easier to grab them.

High Tornado
u-tilt it. How MK's get you here is they mix up their timing. If you immediately up tilt and they wait then next time wait yourself and SHIELD. If they're just waiting for you to do something they run out of tornado time to run away so you can get a punish right after the nado is done. This is more applicable on smaller stages.

Low Tornado
d-tilt or d-smash it. D-tilt is faster and easier to time. Again they can wait but it's hard for MK to do a low-long lasting nado because hitting B lifts them up. If you notice it's a longer nado I would expect a high one.

Random notes
You can try to b-air the Nado if they're just waiting below you extending the nado like an idiot. It works better when your b-air is fresh which it generally should be in this matchup.

Super close range
This is a bad range for you. This opens up options for MK while not giving you anything more. This is why the matchup is hard - right outside of his maximum tilt range you're at a slight disadvantage, maximum tilt range you're at a clear disadvantage, at your maximum grab range you have an advantage, then inside that MK has an advantage.

Basically, always try to fight MK at your maximum grab range or stay away from him.

vs. d-smash

If you block the backside you can't do anything.

At maximum distance you can block -> f-tilt but you have to be really fast. Don't try it if you weren't super prepared to punish it.

block -> d-tilt has a little more time to get it off. Sorry I'll write more on this I'm just running out of time atm.


---

I'll write more about d-air camping, other ranges, and landing/recovering later. I'll also organize this thread better later on but I hope that helps you guys. If anyone has a request, suggestions, or other useful information please share.
 

DewDaDash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 19, 2005
Messages
1,742
Location
エレクトリッ
Read about half of it, will analyze it more later, but its a good read.

Not sure if you want to, but you could try adding common mk scenarios and how to punish.

Ex: mk is on the edge trying to get back on and you are about 2-3 feet away from the edge on the platform. You pretty much f-tilt and d-tilt to not let him get back on the platform but give yourself enough space just incase he does the nado early and u have room to react. The point of this, is that you pressure them, but the main point is that you are pretty much trying to promote them to use nado, and once uve baited it and spot it, up-tilt it. This is pretty much something i did 2 days ago and it worked perfectly for the win lol.
 

Zekeishere

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
946
Location
San Diego, CA
For d smash if you block it you can dash grab. If you're too far to dash grab you can just f tilt.

Against f smash camping or if they charge an f smash to try and trap your landing And you have room you cab just land outside of it's range and f tilt.

You can also Punish a low level tornado with a pivot grab or dashing u smash(lol)

:phone:
 

GRI3VER

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
27
Location
Germany, NRW, Bonn
Can't you Inhale him after blocking the DSmash?
I mean it has Super Armor. I do it sometimes.
Are my opponents just bad MK players?
 

Zekeishere

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 4, 2010
Messages
946
Location
San Diego, CA
Uhh the only scenario I can think of where that would work is if you get pushed out of dash grab range and you jump over his second d smash and inhale.

Otherwise mk can up b, d smash or roll behind you im pretty sure.

:phone:
 

Coney

Smash Master
Joined
May 25, 2008
Messages
4,160
Location
Rapture Farms
one thing to note

if you actually get caught in tornado at 0%, you can pretty much always inhale as a punish immediately after. your kb is low enough so that you fall with them and can punish them during lag, unless they do the lagless one, but most MKs aren't concerned with that once they've actually got a target

i can't find a vid of me doing it but i do it to pretty much every mk i fight
 

ZTD | TECHnology

Developing New TECHnology
Joined
Jun 13, 2010
Messages
15,817
Location
Ferndale, MI
I throw out Inhale when I think I see a Shuttle Loop coming and I feel like airdodging past them will get me hit anyway (those frame traps). I have learned to catch several MKs out of their Loop like this.

If you space/time it perfectly they sucked up and you take no damage.

If you time it perfectly but mess up the spacing you will often take the hit but the grab armor will save you and you'll still swallow them.

If you **** both up....yeah. lol But Ive done it consistently. Just requires some practice. Situational? Yes. Life saving? YES.

:phone:
 
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