Dashing Shield Cancel *Potentially very important*

[Blue sHell]

***CREDIT TO ROHINS AND THE SAMUS FORUM***

Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=upLXveFz_rY

*SEE THE WHOLE VIDEO* I'm sure everyone knows that shield dashing has been brought up before, but in the way its done in the video is what is noteworthy.

Because of the new shield system, the fact you could shield immediately during a run, and the fact that you could attack right out of your shield, we basically have this.

You have to note though that to do this you have to be in your running animation. Not your initial dash animation.

This isn't done during the stopping animation of the run like fox trotting. You have to bring up your shield during the run to stop yourself, then let go of your shield, then attack.

Samus could do it so well because she breaks out into a full run very fast. Either way though the potential that this has is off the ****ing charts. Seriously now. In my opinion this deserves its own topic, but I understand that I could have just so easily put it in the new shield system thread.

But what it dumbs down to is, depending on the character we could have a possible very reliable tactic on our hands. It's a defensive offense, lol. BUT lets not all jump to conclusions immediately, lets go into more testing on the matter like Rohin states and possibly work out the kinks in this tactic.

What do you guys think? What do you think working this into fox trotting strats would cause? This could potentially be a really big deal to some characters.

Video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=upLXveFz_rY

Did that grab your attention? Good. Ok, I'm not trying to claim I found a way to wavedash in Brawl nor that I was the first person to figure this out, but here is a little spacing tool for Samus. (I say for Samus because she benefits the most from this from what I've tested).

Basically all you are doing is using your shield to cancel your dash animation. To do this you have to be holding the direction, not tapping. If you tap you won't get your shield out. The result looks similar to a wavedash in Melee but with your shield popping up. Thankfully, in Brawl you can act very quickly after droping your shield. This allows us to "Wave Smash".

You can do another things too, like shield dash, turn around fully charged blast, tilts, whatever you like. For those of you that are skeptical, that's understandable.

 

[m0dredus]

Hmm, seems real cool. I can't see the vid cause I'm at school, but i can imagine. Seems like a good idea though. when we all get the game we're gonna need to post some vids with just clips of some approach ideas.

 

[ptown]

i like this a lot because dash attacks usually suck.

i want more options.

 

[Catfish_Mike]

Fail due to lack of cool name. I suggest R0h1NzXKEkEL3eTSH13lDZslIdEA774cK.









No, but it does look extremely useful. I had to watch it twice before I got the implications.

 

[Tristan_win]

That look really usefully but I don't quite see how I'm going to add it to my game play but over time it will fill it's own niche.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

ive been doing something similar, its a tad less useful with characters with longer sheild ending animations.

you should put the part about shielding out of run, not stopping animation in bold. some people dont know that.

still, good **** sir. ::thumbs up::

 

[Blue sHell]

I can't believe everyone's brushing off this topic, lol.

Changed the name to draw more attention.

 

[pyrnight]

I think this is very important. It looks like it could serve a function similar to what the wavedash did. It looks good for spacing, its fast, and you can attack right after it (not during it like the wavedash though).

Keep an eye on this thing.

 

[ptown]

i'm not brushing it off. no way.

until we figure out other ways to do things out of dashes and running... this IS pretty useful.

 

[sesshomaru]

i thought this might be possible but he didn't show what im really interested in, or maybe its not possible. if someone could test it would b great. grab marth, run past ur opponent and as soon as u do shield cancel and cstick bak. i really want this in cuz full run in dash cancel smash was massively important to my marth game.

this doesnt HAVE to be foxtrotted right? if it does then, ew lol.

 

[shanus]

interesting. Shield game is definitely a big deal due to the low lag shield drop and powershields. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

 

[Buju.]

This tech has great potential, what I'm wandering is if you could smash attack with it, kinda like with the wavedash but more of like a quick shiled cancel while smashing so in a sense the animation of the shiled is only there for a second so it would mimic wavedashing but if you were hit the shield would still take damage.

 

[sesshomaru]

buju - exactly

he worded that perfectly. for some reason i couldnt get that out clearly -_-. i heard gimpy say dropping ur shield and dsmashing with meta knight punishes. possibility of taking that to the opponent is very important. someone needs to test.

 

[Shou]

Looks like it could be a potential technique, but I can't say much about this. It looks like it could be good..

Edit: I'd like to see someone fighting another person and doing it.

 

[Blue sHell]

i thought this might be possible but he didn't show what im really interested in, or maybe its not possible. if someone could test it would b great. grab marth, run past ur opponent and as soon as u do shield cancel and cstick bak. i really want this in cuz full run in dash cancel smash was massively important to my marth game.

this doesnt HAVE to be foxtrotted right? if it does then, ew lol.

Fox trotting is just the repetition of the starting dash animation over and over again.
For this you have to be running already, not in the starting dash.

 

[Sl1th]

This looks pretty useful, especially since Im a Samus mainer. Its a good approach but I think if people spam this it will become easily abusible since you know they will do it whenever they run towards you.

 

[Blue sHell]

This looks pretty useful, especially since Im a Samus mainer. Its a good approach but I think if people spam this it will become easily abusible since you know they will do it whenever they run towards you.

The same could be said about Melee's wavedashing, dude. Of course if you do things to much people catch on. But the point is that there are ALOT of uses for this, both defensive and offensive.

But really, from what I've been hearing alot of characters versions of this really really suck.

 

[Knight-errant]

I agree, this technique looks like it could potentially have a TON of uses. I'm interested to see whether or not it works as well with other characters as it worked with Samus in that video. Either way, at the very least it looks like Samus has a good, rapid approach that gives her a lot of options.

 

[MarvinTPA]

uh, wasn't there something called jump cancelling, where you could jump out of a shield
(and before you think i'm a total idiot)
and attack before you left the ground?
I can't tell if the Samus is doing it, but that would be helpful.
much faster attack.

Is this just obvious to me, or is it so obvious that nobody's mentioned it?

 

[Crispy4001]

So any characters in specific that do it good/bad?

 

[Takeshi245]

Nice tactic there. It will be useful if incorporated properly.

 

[bayonettrials]

I can only see this being used for positioning and potential "mindgaming".

Otherwise the new shielding system opens up a slew of decent tactics for all characters.

Hopefully some character specifics come soon.

 

[Niko_K]

Seems useless with peach unless im doing it wrong.

 

[Hyperjin7]

This seems very interesting to me, and it will definitely be on my to-try list when I get SSBB. I don't know why people are throwing this out already, because characters in Melee had horrible/hardly usable wavedashes as well. I'm not saying this is a new wavedash, but the options that this enables for defensive and offensive purposes merits much more attention. I'd love for this to be a less risky option to pivoting, but only time will tell.

 

[nelohalo]

Seems useful for offensively-oriented characters like MK.

 

[SoulTrigger]

Awesome, I don't main Samus, but she is one of the characters I like to pick in Melee. I've been hearing a lot of nerf stories about her, but this looks like it can really help her.

 

[Meteor!]

Yeah, I found this a while ago. Shield dash > utilt has become a crucial part of my Dedede's game. It comes out just as fast as his upsmash would have, and has far less lag. It's a very good technique indeed.

NOTE: You will need to have tap jump OFF to shield dash > utilt. I see Samus using this quite well, but I'm not experienced enough with her yet, so I don't have it down.

 

[sesshomaru]

marvin - so obvious that it doesnt exist O_o. its running, then shielding (which will stop you like a dash cancel) and hitting a move. JC has been taken out despite some threads claiming they found a new technique.

 

[VersatileBJN]

The fact that the guy tripped during the video already makes relying on this scary in competitive play, but it sure looks like a solid approach.

dash shielding

 

[squiser]

Anyone have any data an how long the opening dash animation takes for each character? I really wanna know which characters can use this really well. This looks huge.

 

[I.T.P]

first of all, the name is a problem, because there's a technique called dashing shield and dashing shield grab, which is basically using the fact that charaters slide if they shield during a run, and grabbing out of it with a slightly moving hitbox, you can also drop the shield and do an attack from it, but it takes too much time to do to be usefull with most characters.

now, if I understand correctly, you're basically doing the above, a well known technique, but timing it right at the start of the dash, and letting go for a normal attack? does samus' shield turn off animation drastically differ from anyone else's?

also, diffrent characters slide diffrently and for diffrent lengths out of a dashing shield, DDD is easily one of the best for these, as it makes his chain easier, and his large sliding distance + huge grab range make his dashing shield grabs very deadly.

 

[Met]

this looks pretty **** cool i think i will be mesing around with it.

 

[Meteor!]

I think you're misunderstanding how to do this. When you're in your running animation, tap the shield button. It makes you put your shield up and brings it back down really fast, putting you in your standing position. Dedede uses this particularly well, because shield dash > utilt comes out as fast as dash > upsmash, but without the major lag.

 

[maelstrom218]

Interesting. This is EXACTLY what a wavedash is.

A wavedash, in short, let you move a certain distance forward or back while being able to execute any ground attack. This tech accomplishes the same exact thing--you force your character to move a set amount of distance (by cancelling the dash with the shield), and you can do anything out of it (because shield-drop lasts only 1-2 frames, so you can do whatever ground move you want).

There really is no functional difference between this and melee wavedash. Seriously guys. You might as well call this technique wavedashing.

Now, the only question is. . .someone needs to make a frame data chart listing how long the initial dash animation is for each character, so we can tell who can abuse this tactic most easily.

 

[I.T.P]

I think you're misunderstanding how to do this. When you're in your running animation, tap the shield button. It makes you put your shield up and brings it back down really fast, putting you in your standing position. Dedede uses this particularly well, because shield dash > utilt comes out as fast as dash > upsmash, but without the major lag.

but that's basically exactly the same as what I've described, you're cancelling a dash into a shield right at the start of the dash, and then you drop it quickly and do a ground move. while dashing shield does not drop it, instead you either side dodge or grab during the slide caused by shielding during a dash.
so basically this should be named dashing shield cancel, or DSC.

and I'm almost certain diffrent characters here give you completely diffrent results, either that or I'm not taking off the shield correctly

 

[Blue sHell]

Thats a nice realistic name for it I.T.P.
I'll put it on the OP.

And the problem you might be having is that you might be putting up your shield too early. For people like Marth, with a huge initial dash animation(thus his good fox trot), you'd have to put up your shield 1.5 seconds after starting your dash in order to waste your initial dash and go into run. THEN you cancel your shield. Hope this helps.

 

[I.T.P]

What I meant was that I feel that stopping the shielding takes too much lag, and trying to attack out of it makes me roll or dodge instead of executing the attack. am I doing something wrong, or is shield turn off lag character specific?

 

[Rohins]

Hey thanks for the credit To clear some stuff up, Samus benefits from this the most that I've seen since she can shield so early in her dash animation. I haven't tested it with everyone but I can say that Captain Falcon's is particularly bad since there is such a long time before he can shield.

Also, you do not need to turn off tap up to jump. In the video I still have mine enabled and I'm able to utilt after letting go of my shield.

I.T.P - I don't think shield lag is character dependent, I could be wrong though I spend most of my time playing Samus. I think it's just a timing thing, at this point I have no issue doing attacks after dropping shield.

 

[sirusorion]

This is pretty cool!! I was just wondering how hard it is to pull off, it seems like the timing has to be pretty perfect.

also if anyone could possibly make a chart of all the characters and how well this techique works for each of them.

 

[fr0st2k]

this doesnt look useful at all ...