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Dash Shine

thragin

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Jul 24, 2015
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So after fiddling with Fox for about 12 hours a night for like three nights, I've come across what I believe to be new Fox tech.
This dash shine is NOT referring to the Brawl mechanic. It's a Melee and probably PM mechanic.

Fox can carry momentum from dashing if he shines WHILE dashing.
No crouching, no ending dash early, no changing directions. This only works if you are fast enough to go from dash STRAIGHT to shine.
If dashing towards a ledge, with proper timing Fox can shine and propel himself off ledge.
This can be used to shine someone off ledge and immediately shinespike them since you are already off stage and near them.

The dash shine can be an approach method, and can be used to tech chase with shines rather than grabs.
It's precise rather than technical, so it can be an alternative to waveshining in some cases (for the less technically proficient).

I'm sure there are many other Smashers that can come up with other uses for this mechanic, so I'll leave it at that.

Note that this mechanic is best seen in the ledge case. Shining just as you approach ledge (again, without any incorrect inputs in between) should propel Fox past the ledge. The closer you are to the ledge before you shine, the farther you'll end up.

Disclaimer: First post on Smashboards. I created an account just to post this since I couldn't find anything on it. If someone can verify that this is known tech I'll be happy, but at the moment I don't think it's well-known.
I currently have no video of this mechanic, but I'm working on it.
 
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20YY SS | Saiblade

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This is a technique known as running shine, nice job, kiddo. Also, Waveshining is wavedash out of shine, please review your technical terms before posting things like these. I don't mean to sound abrasive or anything, but to avoid people being rude, or saying things that are uncalled-for, research before posting these things.
 
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thragin

Smash Rookie
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Jul 24, 2015
Messages
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I appreciate the response, but I'm not referring to waveshine.
Running shine is probably closer to what I'm referring to, but I'm mostly referring to the ledge interaction.
I apologize if there's a lack of clarity there.
I haven't seen any documentation regarding the ledge interaction. Am I incorrect there?

Also running shine, as far as I know, refers to the basic approach of attempting the shine input during a dash, which arguably can be confused with what I described. They're very easily confused while on stage since the results are negligibly different. The ledge interaction only occurs if the inputs are precise. A running shine alone will not suffice.

Again, the emphasis is on the ledge mechanic. I encourage you to try to propel yourself off stage with the method I described earlier.
 
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20YY SS | Saiblade

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It's the same thing basically, definitely not a new thing. Running shine is definitely what you're referring to here. I was saying the waveshine thing to what I've quoted below.
it can be an alternative to waveshining in some cases
 

thragin

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If it's the same mechanic, then fair enough. While I disagree with the input precision (since going to dead zone on control stick would be fine with running shine), it might be considered the same thing on stage.
Is the ledge interaction documented? I am hesitant to believe that momentum preservation would be associated with running shine on ledge.

Also I was referring to it simply being a different option to waveshining. I do not intend to say that they're the same mechanic.
I certainly don't expect this to be used as a Fox infinite.
 
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20YY SS | Saiblade

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Also running shine, as far as I know, refers to the basic approach of attempting the shine input during a dash, which arguably can be confused with what I described. They're very easily confused while on stage since the results are negligibly different. The ledge interaction only occurs if the inputs are precise. A running shine alone will not suffice.

Again, the emphasis is on the ledge mechanic. I encourage you to try to propel yourself off stage with the method I described earlier.
Running shine is not just that, lmao. Running shine is literally what you said, I know what I'm saying here. The ledge thing is also the same, I do this a lot lol.
 

20YY SS | Saiblade

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Is the ledge interaction documented? I am hesitant to believe that momentum preservation would be associated with running shine on ledge.
A lot of Fox mains do it. I do it, Mango does it, etc.

EDIT: Sorry for the amount of posts mod bros.
 
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thragin

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I find it hard to describe that I'm familiar with waveshining when you take what I've said as the majority of my knowledge.
I'm familiar with Falco being able to waveshine.
I'm familiar with it not being usually used as an infinite, and that only being possible / feasible on certain characters.

Feel free to point me to documentation regarding the ledge interaction, since I'm unable to find any.
It may or may not be well known to Fox mains. That's all good and well.
But I'm basically only here for documentation on the ledge interaction, since I've found that it only works with that particular input.
Of course shine preserves momentum, but I find that it has a use.
Maybe not a ubiquitous, game-breaking use, but I find it hard to believe that it doesn't have a scenario where it is a solid option.
 

20YY SS | Saiblade

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I find it hard to describe that I'm familiar with waveshining when you take what I've said as the majority of my knowledge.
I'm familiar with Falco being able to waveshine.
I'm familiar with it not being usually used as an infinite, and that only being possible / feasible on certain characters.

Feel free to point me to documentation regarding the ledge interaction, since I'm unable to find any.
It may or may not be well known to Fox mains. That's all good and well.
But I'm basically only here for documentation on the ledge interaction, since I've found that it only works with that particular input.
Of course shine preserves momentum, but I find that it has a use.
Maybe not a ubiquitous, game-breaking use, but I find it hard to believe that it doesn't have a scenario where it is a solid option.
I was just saying lol, not to sound rude or whatever. I can tell you that it is known though, I'll find you documentation once I get back onto my PC.
 

Stride

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Dash and run are different. "Dash" is what happens when you first smash the control stick, and "run" is what happens when you keep holding it once you've dashed for a while (it's the state where you can no longer dash-dance). You can't shine out of a dash, but you can out of a run (or out of a crouch, which you can cancel your run with).

Running shine has been known for a long time, and is widely used now; watch Fox videos and you'll see. It's not a substitute for waveshining, in any sense.

The "floating" when you move off the ledge has been known since at least 2005 (this is just the earliest thread I can think of; there's probably earlier/more detailed documentation): http://smashboards.com/threads/chillin-levels.53731/

I'm surprised you didn't find any documentation on running shine, since multiple results come up on the first page of Google when you search things like "ssbm shine out of dash" or "ssbm running shine".
 
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Cres

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Dash and run are different Sai, before you start trying to immediately shut down someone, get your own info right lol (love you though) (not really)

So like, I've might've seen someone (maybe hax) do this once before, but I don't think it's extremely useful tech. Maybe if they like are invading your like close dash dance and you immediately do the input, which should be

You press Y and B on the first airborne frame. Basically just the input for multishining but while running.
It just seems situation based that's all. It does have it's uses though.

Now, what I'm talking about might be different, but I think this is what you were trying to get across not sure though, sounded like what you meant when you were talking about shining straight out of dash.
 
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20YY SS | Saiblade

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Dash and run are different Sai, before you start trying to immediately shut down someone, get your own info right lol (love you though) (not really)

So like, I've might've seen someone (maybe hax) do this once before, but I don't think it's extremely useful tech. Maybe if they like are invading your like close dash dance and you immediately do the input, which should be

You press Y and B on the first airborne frame. Basically just the input for multishining but while running.
It just seems situation based that's all. It does have it's uses though.

Now, what I'm talking about might be different, but I think this is what you were trying to get across not sure though, sounded like what you meant when you were talking about shining straight out of dash.
I know they are lol, even if it is in dash, it's still referred to as running shine afaik.
 

DefyPls

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It is impossible to shine while in the dash animation
It's not impossible to shine while in the dash animation. Fox, as well as any character, can jump out of their dashing animation. Fox has a jumpsquat of 3 frames, meaning that when you press "Y/X" while dashing, you'll leave the ground in 3 frames, any time during those 3 frames if you shine, you won't leave the ground. That's a dashing shine.
 

Stride

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It's not impossible to shine while in the dash animation. Fox, as well as any character, can jump out of their dashing animation. Fox has a jumpsquat of 3 frames, meaning that when you press "Y/X" while dashing, you'll leave the ground in 3 frames, any time during those 3 frames if you shine, you won't leave the ground. That's a dashing shine.
You can't cancel your jumpsquat with shine; you do it on the first frame you're airborne, where it interrupts your upwards velocity from the jump and you then float down to the ground (floating down takes several frames). Even if you could cancel your jumpsquat, one could still argue that it's not technically a shine out of a dash, since you're cancelling the dash first; it's certainly not analogous to doing a shine straight out of a run (which you can do instantaneously).
 
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AscendantAquila

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Apr 17, 2015
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This seems like super situational tech, forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is a JC Shine near the ledge, which allows you to slide off (As stated before this has been known). I don't find many circumstances in which I use a JC Shine over a Running Shine, although there are many applications for it given it allows for a shine out of a dash, but on top of that it would have to be near a ledge or platform. Although it isn't super complicated, this seems pretty risky because if you screw up the JC, you end with a short hop shine and if you manage to do it too late, you end with an aerial shine and no double jump, which seems risky. Also I feel like in such a situation that there are better options to either punish or pressure than this.
 

DefyPls

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This seems like super situational tech, forgive me if I'm wrong, but this is a JC Shine near the ledge, which allows you to slide off (As stated before this has been known). I don't find many circumstances in which I use a JC Shine over a Running Shine, although there are many applications for it given it allows for a shine out of a dash, but on top of that it would have to be near a ledge or platform. Although it isn't super complicated, this seems pretty risky because if you screw up the JC, you end with a short hop shine and if you manage to do it too late, you end with an aerial shine and no double jump, which seems risky. Also I feel like in such a situation that there are better options to either punish or pressure than this.
Due to it being on the ledge, I don't think it has to be jump cancelled, I think that only applies to doing it on the ground, but I've experimented with this a little bit, but by shining BEFORE you get to the ledge the momentum sends you forward, it doesn't necessarily have to be from the dash, it could be from the run. By shining on the frame you enter the "ottotto" animation you don't go anywhere because this animation stops all momentum. This isn't "new tech," but it's very interesting concerning some of Melee's ledge mechanics. This can be done from both the run and dash, if I'm correct.
 

AscendantAquila

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Sorry if I am interpreting your response incorrectly but I think I probably should have used the term dash shine over JC shine because looking back at the comment I feel as though the term I used meant could easily be misinterpreted as JC after shine not before which is what I meant. I was also talking about the specific applications the OP put forth which was dash into a shine near the ledge.
 

DefyPls

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Sorry if I am interpreting your response incorrectly but I think I probably should have used the term dash shine over JC shine because looking back at the comment I feel as though the term I used meant could easily be misinterpreted as JC after shine not before which is what I meant. I was also talking about the specific applications the OP put forth which was dash into a shine near the ledge.
I understood what you were trying to say, I was just stating that, with the right timing, you can shine on the ledge, without sliding off, also that there's no need to jump cancel the shine. The uses for dash-shine aren't many, but it opens more options in the neutral, assuming you don't mess it up. However, there's virtually no difference between dash shine, and running shine when it comes to applying it at the ledge, other than the jump cancel input. Basically, even if you weren't in run, but were to dash and miss the certain frame to input shine, you'd either fall off-stage and shine, or do nothing. For running shine, if you were to miss the frame to input shine, the only difference would be that you'd shine before falling off-stage, and if you did it off-stage, you'd have the exact same outcome as with the dash. This "certain frame," as mentioned earlier, is referred to as the "ottotto" animation, which stops all momentum.
 

DefyPls

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Warning Received
You can't cancel your jumpsquat with shine; you do it on the first frame you're airborne, where it interrupts your upwards velocity from the jump and you then float down to the ground (floating down takes several frames). Even if you could cancel your jumpsquat, one could still argue that it's not technically a shine out of a dash, since you're cancelling the dash first; it's certainly not analogous to doing a shine straight out of a run (which you can do instantaneously).
Thanks for the correction, I was mistaken.
Also, it is technically cancelling the dash before the shine, but everyone refers to it as "dashing shine" because no one wants to say "dash jump cancelled shine."
 
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Cres

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I know they are lol, even if it is in dash, it's still referred to as running shine afaik.
Running shine refers to it being done during the running animation smh
It is impossible to shine while in the dash animation
Jump cancelling the shine during the short dash animation that fox has is possible, it's like inputting a perfect shine out of shield, you're still grounded.
 

Cres

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Warning Received
You can't cancel your jumpsquat with shine; you do it on the first frame you're airborne, where it interrupts your upwards velocity from the jump and you then float down to the ground (floating down takes several frames). Even if you could cancel your jumpsquat, one could still argue that it's not technically a shine out of a dash, since you're cancelling the dash first; it's certainly not analogous to doing a shine straight out of a run (which you can do instantaneously).
You could say the exact same thing about it not being technically a shine out of run, since you're cancelling the run first to do the shine. If I use the same logic. Your first part was correct ye
 

Stride

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You could say the exact same thing about it not being technically a shine out of run, since you're cancelling the run first to do the shine. If I use the same logic. Your first part was correct ye
There's nothing between the run and the shine, but there's a jump between the dash and the shine. A better way of phrasing what I said in my previous post would have been "since you're cancelling the dash into something else first" instead of "since you're cancelling the dash first".
 
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Cres

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There's nothing between the run and the shine, but there's a jump between the dash and the shine. A better way of phrasing it would have been "since you're cancelling the dash into something else first".
Um you do know you have to cancel the run aka crouch, aka dash cancel aka should be run cancel. So there is something in between both.
 
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