Dancing Blade Discussion

[McWaffles]

Hey Lucina boards, it's me, McWaffles again, and I was looking around the forums and noticed that there wasn't really any specific threads to discuss Lucina's DB move. So I decided to make one. Post here in all regards on follow-ups / uses / Variations (Forward Up Up Down, etc.) in using Dancing Blade.

 

[Tomoya]

So this is the dilemma, dancing blade can either be the worst move or the best tool depending on how you utilize it. The first hit of dancing blade in the air is the best thing I've discovered since 1.1.3. If you land the first hit in the air you can follow up with an up air and into a Nair at a large range of percentages. Or you can just up air guaranteed. (for Marth it gives a tipper guaranteed on all the moves).

Dancing blade can be bad in a way cause it's very predictable and you can't really follow up but it's good to add damage in a short amount of time


I'd give more tips but I wanna do a video rather than type it without a visual demonstration. And there's so much to discuss just about it lmao. Since all the other guides are either basic or utterly useless.

 

[McWaffles]

Anybody have any word on what they found in the lab? Like what the best variation seems for Damage, Shield Pressure, Killing, etc.

 

[Plategoron]

Jab1-> DB is incredible to build up damage

 

[Darklink401]

sh dancing blade to nair 1 to fsmash is bae. True combo at high %s, and better than Marth's since it won't tipper.

 

[DarkK]

I've found that Jab 1 -> Short Hop -> Dancing Blade 1 -> Up Air is somewhat of a true combo (the opponent must jump out of the jab before you can land the DB to avoid it) and it deals 18%, always. At certain percents it can be even followed up by a fair, perhaps even some other moves as well.

There's also Jab 1 -> Fair -> Dancing Blade 1 -> FSmash. Not guaranteed but it can be a good mix-up, and you can always change FSmash for a tilt.

 

[Nika]

I recommend messing around with DB in the air . I've never had any luck with DB 1 > nair/uair combos, but it can be useful as a stall, landing option, or anti-air. Try starting it before your opponent is in range so that you're at DB 2 or 3 by the time you'd actually be hitting them - that gives you more options, and the unexpected angles help catch your opponent off guard.

Also, every Lucina should know that you can sh fair > DB. It's a great crossup, and it takes a lot of people by surprise. If you're not crossing up, try to space it so they can't shieldgrab you, since that's a decent counter to DB.

 

[Darklink401]

I recommend messing around with DB in the air . I've never had any luck with DB 1 > nair/uair combos, but it can be useful as a stall, landing option, or anti-air. Try starting it before your opponent is in range so that you're at DB 2 or 3 by the time you'd actually be hitting them - that gives you more options, and the unexpected angles help catch your opponent off guard.

Also, every Lucina should know that you can sh fair > DB. It's a great crossup, and it takes a lot of people by surprise. If you're not crossing up, try to space it so they can't shieldgrab you, since that's a decent counter to DB.

sh db 1 > nair 1 > fsmash has gotten my countless kills


Actually I guess this is relevant

 

[Nika]

The spacing is just so awkward and it's so unsafe on shield due to DB's short range, plus it won't work against short characters. Also, both characters need to have a pretty high % for there to be enough hitstun, right?

I mean, you're right that I should try it and have it as an option, since Lucina could definitely use kill confirms. I'll give it another shot. Just saying, I've never had much luck with it in practice.

 

[Tomoya]

The spacing is just so awkward and it's so unsafe on shield due to DB's short range, plus it won't work against short characters. Also, both characters need to have a pretty high % for there to be enough hitstun, right?

I mean, you're right that I should try it and have it as an option, since Lucina could definitely use kill confirms. I'll give it another shot. Just saying, I've never had much luck with it in practice.

Against short characters use short hop dancing blade stall and fast fall forward air. It baits people to think you're vulnerable, but it creates a wall. Try it out

 

[Darklink401]

The spacing is just so awkward and it's so unsafe on shield due to DB's short range, plus it won't work against short characters. Also, both characters need to have a pretty high % for there to be enough hitstun, right?

I mean, you're right that I should try it and have it as an option, since Lucina could definitely use kill confirms. I'll give it another shot. Just saying, I've never had much luck with it in practice.

Against short characters, just look for jab to sh db, to get them in the air first

It starts to true combo at around 110-120%, but it works regardless a lot earlier than that, even around the 70-80ish mark, since if they airdodge, they just get punished due to having airdodge landing lag, and if they try to jump there's a high chance you will catch their jumo.

 

[Nika]

^Yo that's genius! I'll definitely try that - much better than swinging for jab fsmashes and hoping they don't know how to jump...

edit: Tried it out on FG and in the lab. It's beautiful (a kill confirm at ledge out of JAB!) but it seems to mostly work against middleweights at mid-high percents. It actually never showed up as true in the lab, so I can't really tell exact percents, but I'd guess something like 60-100 on an average size/weight character like Pit.

Now to try it out in tournament...

 

[Darklink401]

^Yo that's genius! I'll definitely try that - much better than swinging for jab fsmashes and hoping they don't know how to jump...

edit: Tried it out on FG and in the lab. It's beautiful (a kill confirm at ledge out of JAB!) but it seems to mostly work against middleweights at mid-high percents. It actually never showed up as true in the lab, so I can't really tell exact percents, but I'd guess something like 60-100 on an average size/weight character like Pit.

Now to try it out in tournament...

DB to nair will only work at over 110-120% if DB is tippered. Which is luckily the same % nair 1 to fsmash starts working xD
It works on fastfallers as well if you start with jab 1 to sh db 1 because they can't just SDI down and land + shield.

 

[Jaypen7]

Dancing blade as a whole is kinda ehhh. If you play at a lower level, you can throw out the whole combo once in a while. Jab1 to dancing blade is a thing, pretty good for racking up damage. SH db1 however is like the bomb dude. The mixup options are endless, not really, but its a great mixup tool. Sh db1 to nair1 to f smash is a good kill setup(its not guranteed though I believe but its still one of our best kill options). If you wanna play around with your opponent, sh db1 to nair 1 to jab and then repeat if you want.

 

[Darklink401]

Dancing blade as a whole is kinda ehhh. If you play at a lower level, you can throw out the whole combo once in a while. Jab1 to dancing blade is a thing, pretty good for racking up damage. SH db1 however is like the bomb dude. The mixup options are endless, not really, but its a great mixup tool. Sh db1 to nair1 to f smash is a good kill setup(its not guranteed though I believe but its still one of our best kill options). If you wanna play around with your opponent, sh db1 to nair 1 to jab and then repeat if you want.

SH DB 1 to nair 1 to fsmash is guaranteed past 120% (if you hit with the tip of sh db 1. Or maybe just in general lol)

Also dancing blade is good for punishing with solid damage that also gives you good stage control.

 

[Nika]

I've been trying it, but they always seem to pop out at higher percents. It feels like DB 1 has too much knockback for this to actually work...

 

[Darklink401]

I've been trying it, but they always seem to pop out at higher percents. It feels like DB 1 has too much knockback for this to actually work...

Against floaty characters, it won't work at super high %s, and you also shouldn't try to initialize with jab.

 

[Floor]

The 4th upwards variation is the best for killing at center stage (around 155 (at the last hit) for midweights). At the ledge, the forward variation kills around 120. The full downwards variation is the best for racking up damage. It deals 20 damage, but the opponent can DI out of it the easiest and if the do, they have might enough time to set up a trap. It's fairly safe at midlevel play; I haven't used it against top level players. So use the downwards to get 20 percent on For Gkory, but be careful in larger tournaments. Also, don't use the downwards 4th hit on Bowser. His Tough Guy ability means he won't flinch. He'll stand and grab you while you use it, so always go for an upwards finisher or a forwards one on Bowser.

If your opponent sheilds your Dancing Blade, you have two options. First up, you can stop the combo (if you play it out normally,they can punish). If you stop the combo, it puts you and your opponent about even framewise. In other words, you should be safe, but you'll need a quick get away.

Your second option involves mind games. You can stall Dancing Blade, leaving time in between each hit, and end with the downwards finisher. This will leave your opponents sheild VERY low or might even break it. If it's low, you can B reverse your sheild breaker in the air and keep applying sheild pressure. If your opponent stops sheilding as you stall your Dancing Blade, well, they get hit and you quickly finish it off with the finisher of your choice.

All in all, I use Dancing Blade and aireals and jabs until they are around 60% or near the ledge. If they're near the ledge, you can try to edge guard depending on who your opponent is, or if they're at 60, they can DI out of the downwards variation. At 60, i switch to almost exclusively aireals to try to space them and push the to the edge where i use jab -> Forward Smash to get a kill (Forward Smash probably won't kill at 60, but by the time your aireals push them to the edge, it could)

 

[Jaypen7]

SH DB 1 to nair 1 to fsmash is guaranteed past 120% (if you hit with the tip of sh db 1. Or maybe just in general lol)

Also dancing blade is good for punishing with solid damage that also gives you good stage control.

Huh, the more you know. Are there true killing combos from anywhere between 70-110 though?

 

[Darklink401]

Huh, the more you know. Are there true killing combos from anywhere between 70-110 though?

I...don't think so? Simply due to lack of power in any of her other setups. However from around that %, even if you get hit with sh db 1, that's big risk for death, because you can't airdodge after the sh db1 or else Lucina can fsmash you while you're still in airdodge landing lag, and it can often take your jump (my friend lost his jump many times in friendlies to this)
This actually really screws over ganon BAD. xD

 

[Buffoon]

I tend stall off-stage w/ the first hit of DB, results vary depending on the opponent.

 

[Wnyke]

And why nobody has suggested using as an edgeguard tool?

DB1->DolphinSlash, VS opponent's recoverying low, you will get an stage spike, may not be a guarantee death, but there is minumal risk.

DB1->Jumping D.air, cause you can spike, and looks way too cool, sadly is not as useful cause it's easily DI out of it.

DB1-> F.air/Jumping F.air, this is the most useful edguard move I've been using, I mean you don't even need to land DB1, you throw it and if your opponent do an airdodge you hit them with F.air, and DB stalls you in the air enough so your opponent can't really escape from it, also DB and f.air starts above you, so jumping is not that great VS this. Most people will waste their second jump just after you hit them with DB1, so unless their recovery is really good, they are pretty much done. (Remember to use eehh "Smashed" Dolphing Slash [Hadouken like motion up->b->forward/backward], so you can make it back from great distances).

I guess you can use n.air too, but without the coverage zone probably is not worth it, but who knows...

 

[CanadianCourage]

So is it raising dancing Blade only? Because I can't get it to work otherwise.

 

[Darklink401]

So is it raising dancing Blade only? Because I can't get it to work otherwise.

Yes, only rising sh db.

 

[roymustang1990-]

I like to use f smash as a mix up surprise after poping up opponents at higher percents with a grounded db1 if they don't double jumped away.

 

[Uncle Tonkle]

So, offstage DB > Dair can actually be a very good tool against characters with bad recoveries. I've found DK is especially vulnerable to this. If you miss the spike you can sometimes just up B to the ledge and try again. It also conditions him to airdodge, which can be a good mixup or guarantee that he's dead when it seems he can juuuust recover high enough.

Also, I don't know if anyone here uses Bidou, but I've found that B reversed SH DB is actually a really nice spacing tool that, if done correctly, will lead to a nicely spaced fair that connects the frame before you land. I'm fairly sure this is safe on shield, but I haven't done enough testing to really know for sure. Fast characters might have an answer. I just thought I'd throw it out there.

 

[Nika]

Check out this doubled up jab 1 > sh DB 1 > nair 1 > fsmash combo: https://oddshot.tv/shot/Uzpgvhh1gvhEZIX570cmLdRE

The jab > nair 1 part may not be true, but for the most part it should work on somewhat-fast fallers (Ryu, Falcon, Ganondorf, etc) in a narrow window around 70% (?)

Also for creative DB use, I want to try edge guarding with DB 4 (side). It'd be the hardest read and mostly for swag, but it would kill offstage earlier than bair/fair.

 

[McWaffles]

Check out this doubled up jab 1 > sh DB 1 > nair 1 > fsmash combo: https://oddshot.tv/shot/Uzpgvhh1gvhEZIX570cmLdRE

The jab > nair 1 part may not be true, but for the most part it should work on somewhat-fast fallers (Ryu, Falcon, Ganondorf, etc) in a narrow window around 70% (?)

Also for creative DB use, I want to try edge guarding with DB 4 (side). It'd be the hardest read and mostly for swag, but it would kill offstage earlier than bair/fair.

That was sick as hell lol. Stage spiking with DB 4 down is stylish as hell too, catches them off guard too.

 

[Nika]

That's a cool idea, you mean jumping off and doing it toward the stage?

 

[McWaffles]

That's a cool idea, you mean jumping off and doing it toward the stage?

Yeah man

 

[11volt]

I don't think this has been mentioned yet but I often find Dancing Blade as a nice tech situation follow-up/trap, usually after a low-mid % SH f-air. It's easy to hit unless they roll behind you, though it can be read like most things in situations like these.

 

[TrashWizard]

So messing around with db 1 and then 2 up gives you an almost guaranteed grab, and the grab can condition the opponent to airdodge, then if they airdodge the landing lag means you get a free fsmash

 

[SuperScope]

So messing around with db 1 and then 2 up gives you an almost guaranteed grab, and the grab can condition the opponent to airdodge, then if they airdodge the landing lag means you get a free fsmash

It may just be better to finish dB rather than grab, assuming it hits. More damage and just as good knockback

 

[TrashWizard]

^ definitely, but i was just sharing my findings saying you could do that kinda stuff