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Captain Falcon can d-air for a meteor / spike depending on where you hit with it it, and his side-B in the air is a spike. Ganondorf's d-air is brutal, but I believe it's a meteor. His side-B is a guaranteed kill, but he also dies Falco obviously has his d-air Fox has that shine "spike" if that counts Ike has a ton of meteor/spikes. His d-dair, d-tilt, n-B, and the downward strike from his up-B all meteor or spike Marth's d-air spikes and you can sorta easily Ken Combo into it Roy's d-air is a strong meteor, but can be hard to hit with the right hitbox Diddy Kong can meteor with d-air and certain up-B hitboxes Charizard's d-air and down throw are meteors and his d-smash is a spike Donkey Kong's d-air and f-air (certain hitbox) and his side-B Ivysaur's d-air and up-air kinda Luigi's d-air, certain hitbox Mario's f-air, certain hitbox Kirby's d-air Lucario's aerial side-B Ice Climber's f-air Olimar's d-air Pit's d-tilt and d-air (certain hitbox) Samus' d-air ROB's d-air Snake's d-air and f-air Sonic's f-air (certain hitbox) and d-air (certain hitbox) Toon Link's d-air (certain hitbox) and d-tilt (certain hitbox) Link's d-tilt I think? Wario's d-air Yoshi's f-air and d-air (sorta) Zelda's d-air Mewtwo's d-air
Does it really? That is soooooo gross
I'm so disgusted.
D-air -- impractical; small sweetspot on final hitbox frame D-air -- upper-most hitbox spikes, others meteor smash (hence the term "nipple-spike") D-air ((F-air)) -- "spike sends slightly outward like other spikes do to be outside meteor trajectory range" D-air D-air D-air D-air -- impractical; very weak D-air F-air ((D-air)) ((U-air)) -- "falling hitbox is a spike for the first four frames" D-air D-air B-air D-air D-air -- small sweetspots D-air -- small sweetspot F-air D-air D-air D-air D-air ((D-air)) -- small sweetspot D-air D-air -- small sweetspots D-air ((F-air)) -- tip/foot hitbox spikes, others meteor smash ((F-air)) ((D-air)) -- initial hitbox only D-air -- initial hitbox only D-air D-air F-air D-air D-air D-air -- impractical as meteor smash; mimics footstooling, good for combos ((U-smash)) -- during descent ((Side-B)) D-smash D-throw Side-B Up-B Side-B -- second hit, while airborne Side-B D-throw D-throw Side-B -- while grounded Down-B D-tilt -- weak Up-B -- during descent
F-smash Up-B Up-B -- during descent D-tilt -- weak Side-B -- while airborne Super Side-B -- while airborne D-tilt -- weak D-taunt ((U-smash)) -- on grounded foes; adopted trait from Dr. Mario's U-smash Side-B -- third hit, if upward hit is chosen D-throw D-tilt --weak D-tilt -- weak U-smash -- "The tip can meteor smash at the very first frames of the attack" Side-B -- third hit, if upward hit is chosen Down-B -- while airborne ((D-tilt)) -- weak D-throw -- I think...? Not sure about this one... Side-B D-tilt -- weak Up-B Down-B -- second hit; impractical; very weak
It's both. Most of it is a meteor but I believe his heel is a spike.
TBH it could very well be; I couldn't find a list differentiating spikes from meteor spikes anywhere in the P:M boards (granted I'm pretty tired lol...sorry if I missed something obvious), so I made that list based off of Brawl/Melee mechanics, and Snake's f-air was a meteor in Brawl. I'll add a disclaimer just in case .___.
Whoops. Other than the fact that meteors can be cancelled and spikes can't, is there any other distinct traits that differentiate the two? Now that I think about it, there aren't any true spikes in Brawl, so...would I be wrong in assuming that several of the Brawl newcomers moves I listed as meteors were actually made into spikes or hybrids?
Challenge accepted.
I figured they would be, with transferred Melee mechanics and all. But if Snake's F-air was given spike properties as you said, that means PMBR added spike properties to some of the Brawl cast's meteor smashes since spike mechanics are nonexistant in Brawl, and therefore, all the newcomers couldn't have spikes. I'm pretty sure these are listed under the changes listed for each character on their SSBWiki P:M pages, so I'll check there and update the list.
Yeah, we really need a wiki just for PM :3
At Roy's segment:Standouts:
The rest of the spikes / meteors:
I didn't read them all but there was one thing that stuck out: C. Falcon's spike hitbox is on his torso and his meteor hitbox is on his feet. If you ever heard of people saying "nipple spike," it's cause C. Falcon's spike hits around his nipple lol. This sort of thing happens because the hitboxes hit further and further outwards as they go further up his body, and moves are seen as "meteors," allowing for meteor cancels only when the angle is a certain distance or less from straight down.I know you wanted a list of characters with strong/easy-to-use spikes, but pretty much everyone in the game has at least one (just Jigglypuff, MetaKnight, Pikachu, and Sheik, iirc). Here's a list of every one (as far as I know) for easy reference.
Quick Disclaimer: The info found in this list was compiled from what I'm pretty sure are credible sources, but it may still contain errors.
KEY
WHITE = HAS NO HITBOXES WITH DOWNWARD KNOCKBACK
GREEN = HAS SPIKE HITBOXES
YELLOW = HAS BOTH SPIKE AND METEOR SMASH HITBOXES
RED = HAS METEOR SMASH HITBOXES
BLUE = NOTES
((MoveName)) = PARENTHESIS COLOR INDICATES MOVE'S ORIGINAL SPIKE/METEOR SMASH PROPERTIES IN MELEE/BRAWL, IF DIFFERENT
AERIAL ATTACKS:
OTHER ATTACKS:
I'm 99% certain that Zard's d-smash is a meteor. It might not be if I'm wrong about the angle thing above^, but the only hitbox on dsmash that can hit aerial opponents hits straight down. Your friends are likely meteor canceling it too early. You can hit up B after 20 frames (one third of a second) or jump after 40 frames (two thirds of a second). If you do either of these too early then the game will not accept either type of interrupt and you can no longer cancel the meteor.
I'm so on it.
That Roy Spike is crazy, I've never seen it used.If he's specifically looking for a Dair meteor/spike KOer, it's hard to recommend Roy. With the long end lag, combined with Roy's recovery and his very high falling speed (one of the highest in PM's whole roster), it's too dangerous to pull off most of the time. Someone already mentioned DED but there is one more Roy has that I know of and that is Up Smash. I'm not sure how it works but I do know that only the tip must connect for it. I believe it's a spike.
I think this is perhaps too janky, but characters who can utilise footstool spikes may be worthy of mention. ZSS can, with a good amount of prediction skills and reflexes, get footstool KOs out of DSmash particularly on characters that fall fast like Fox. Peach also has her float which allows her to use Dair in place and near immediately follow up with a footstool. It's brutal.
That GIF is the only time I personally have used it for a KO. However it can be a pretty good combo starter/continuer on certain stages where the platforms are high enough that only the spike hitbox connects when used below a platform (Battlefield is probably the best example).
Thanks! I found that it was considered a spike in melee, but is listed as a meteor smash in P:M. This is sort of curious, since it wasn't noted under the changes from Melee to P:M like it should have been if such is the case. Since it was listed as a meteor in the P:M article, I'm keeping it listed as such until we come across any other info that proves otherwise. (I'd scour through the Roy hitbox/frame data threads and elsewhere for any info, but I'm tired/busy lol. hence why I'm just linking to the wiki; I realize it may not be the most reliable, but hopefully it's good enough for quick reference aha)
I looked in the sticky and it didn't reveal much. However, it did confirm that the top of Roy's sword is where the meteor is. On hit #5 however, the meteor hitbox changes to an upward launcher. The meteor hitbox also overlaps with the one below it, so careful spacing is required to make sure that only the meteor hitbox connects. Anywho, I'll stop posting because I'm making this get rather off-topic.
Holy crap I totally forgot that could spike, I think it also worked like that in Melee. But its been a long time since I've played Roy in MeleeIf he's specifically looking for a Dair meteor/spike KOer, it's hard to recommend Roy. With the long end lag, combined with Roy's recovery and his very high falling speed (one of the highest in PM's whole roster), it's too dangerous to pull off most of the time. Someone already mentioned DED but there is one more Roy has that I know of and that is Up Smash. I'm not sure how it works but I do know that only the tip must connect for it. I believe it's a spike.
I think this is perhaps too janky, but characters who can utilise footstool spikes may be worthy of mention. ZSS can, with a good amount of prediction skills and reflexes, get footstool KOs out of DSmash particularly on characters that fall fast like Fox. Peach also has her float which allows her to use Dair in place and near immediately follow up with a footstool. It's brutal.
I practiced the hell outta that spike. It's so good against Spacey recoveries.
Certainly looks like it, definitely on my bucket list of things to attempt.
I really recommend it. Roy is a KO genius. Believe it or not, (I wish I had recorded) on metal cavern I was in the middle of the stage on The platform. Perhaps the luckiest KO's of my life happened when a Ness traveling via PKT2 and a Fox using up-special took Roy's up-smash spike at the same time, it finished both.
I use Roy a fair bit in PM, i'm just not sure if I prefer him or Marth as my secondary right now lol
It's all about trade off. The FE Smashers are on a spectrum. Marth is at the speed end, he has great follow ups. Roy, is in the middle. He trades some off that agility for more KO potential, but he's a tad harder to maintain combos with imo. Then there's Ike, he's all KO potential.
