Custom Stages in the Official Ruleset?

h4 Gambiteer

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#1
It occurs to me that there's no reason why have the stagelist that we do except that there are only a certain number of "non-jank" stages.

Why don't we completely optimize the stagelist? With the custom stages, we can tailor stages to be "tournament-optimal," and then share those stagelists.

We could start by just tweaking existing stages. Warioware was banned because the side blastzones were to short--well, why don't we re-create the stage but with modified blastzones? PS2 has platforms that stop Kirby's downthrow combos, so what if we made an identical custom stage with those platforms slightly re-positioned? (it would also get rid of that annoying background). We could create a Castle Siege that doesn't have that view-blocking foreground element, and we can make a "hazardless" smashville that still has a moving platform.

And of course we could take it a step further. We can break down the elements of stages and develop an ideal list that includes these elements in a utilitarian way.

Here are the elements I've identified (let me know if you can think of more)
Length of main stage (ground)
Shape of ground (yoshi’s brawl, lylat, etc)
Distance from ground to side blastzones
Distance from ground to top blastzones
Distance from ground to bottom blastzone
Number and position of platforms
Stage walls

We could even have a massive stagelist and ban based on properties. For example, we could have archetypes of "triplat," "biplat," "monoplat," and "FD." Then we could have Small, medium, large horizontal/vertical blastzones, and maybe even a toggle for moving platforms and stage walls.

This would be a LOT of work to create 144 stages (although its' only 36 if we assume no stage walls and only still platforms). But then banning could be entirely different. No you ban based on stage properties that you want.

Now you ban monoplat, I ban triplat and large horizontal blastzones, you ban FD (locking us into biplat) and small horizontal blatzones, etc.

At the end of the day, suppose we ended up on a 1) biplat, 2) medium horizontal blastzone, 3) medium vertical blastzone stage. We would then have an official stage that represents this (it would be identical to the other biplat stages except for the M/M blastzone sizes, and it would be identical to the other M/M blastzone stages except for the number of platforms).


This system may prove too tedious to do convenient banning in large tournaments (or, possibly to make such accurate stages with the tools available right now), but from a theoretical standpoint, what do you guys think?

If that's a step too far, we can just go "back" to having a set list of ~8 stages, but this time they're custom stages and have small microimprovements over the current stagelist (a few examples of which I mentioned in the beginning)?
 

Idon

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#2
We've had this conversation a hundred times, you're not going to convince the entirety of all TOs to play on an unofficial stage.
 

Vycoul

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#3
Apart from the logistical problems, and the competitive scene's unwillingness to ever change the status quo, there is a huge fundamental flaw with every custom stage right now:

This glitch.

Platform sides hindering movement, breaking projectiles, and acting as a solid wall that can be teched on, (not shown in that video) makes any custom stage with them completely unsuited for serious play. Imagine landing that game winning hit, only for your opponent to tech on the side of the platform on a BF clone. It's laughable.

As someone who has made hundreds of stages in both Brawl and Smash 4, I want this glitch fixed more than ANY buff for any characters that I play.
 
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S_B

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#4
Custom stages would be a logistics nightmare.

It's bad enough to get everyone bringing a setup to have all characters available and the latest patch. Imagine trying to get them to also go online and download a specific list of stages and ensure all 30+ Switches people have brought all have those stages.

It's just not going to happen unless Nintendo chooses stages from the stage builder that makes them "official" and automatically downloaded to every Switch (which will never happen).
 

Z1GMA

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#5
I always liked the idea of having official custom stages. But rather than downloading a specific stage, there should be an easy to recreate simple and failproof model for the stage. 1 or 2 stages would be enough tho.

Example: draw a line from the left to the right of the ghosty platform model.
Next, move the cursor 6 squares down and 3 to the left - click. Now move in to the middle and 6 squares down - click. Now complete the left side so it mirrors the right side.
Now make a passable platform 6 sqares above the mainplatform 4 sqares to the left of the middle. The platform should be 6 squares from side to side. Remove ledgesnap.
Background: lava
Material: rubber
 

h4 Gambiteer

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#6
I always liked the idea of having official custom stages. But rather than downloading a specific stage, there should be an easy to recreate simple and failproof model for the stage. 1 or 2 stages would be enough tho.

Example: draw a line from the left to the right of the ghosty platform model.
Next, move the cursor 6 squares down and 3 to the left - click. Now move in to the middle and 6 squares down - click. Now complete the left side so it mirrors the right side.
Now make a passable platform 6 sqares above the mainplatform 4 sqares to the left of the middle. The platform should be 6 squares from side to side. Remove ledgesnap.
Background: lava
Material: rubber
Yeah, the main problem with that is that it's hard to verify. What if the platform is 5 squares instead of 6? Who will notice until midway through the match?

It's foolproof the check the stage ID against the "official" custom stage though....
 

Z1GMA

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#7
Yeah, the main problem with that is that it's hard to verify. What if the platform is 5 squares instead of 6? Who will notice until midway through the match?

It's foolproof the check the stage ID against the "official" custom stage though....
hmm.. that's true.
 
Joined
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Mystery
#9
Yeah, the main problem with that is that it's hard to verify. What if the platform is 5 squares instead of 6? Who will notice until midway through the match?

It's foolproof the check the stage ID against the "official" custom stage though....
Well if you were to have someone who is very competitive upload a set of around a dozen stages that could be competitive, they ask others to try them, people download them (in case they get taken down), they try them, and if they work, there's the stages we can use.

Although, this is still impossible if that glitch Vycoul Vycoul mentioned doesn't get patched.
 
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Wigglerman

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#10
Oh lord, no. So very few stages are actually well constructed. It could be partially due to how one draws on the switch screen. Lines aren't often straight or complex designed stages have lots of weird glitches (or purposeful) where you fall through the stage or other odd jank. You'd need a strict board of judges to play test the crap out every custom stage someone wanted to try to make legal. Then comes the horrific ordeal of deciding what can and can't be chosen. You make the stage strike list an absolute headache. Then how often do 'new stages' need to be added into the mix (or removed) and so on and so forth.

As fun as the builder can be, there's just way too much micromanagement that TO's just don't need to deal with.
 
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