Custom Special Moves

[Neo Zero]

There are certainly choices that seem like they'd be overcentralizing (Aether 2 comes to my mind immediately) in that everyone would want it, but nothing so far that seems to the point of overpowered. However, if you want a similar comparison, look at Duodecim Final Fantasy

Competitive Value/Viability aside as a game, this game is a lot like the custom movesets of Smash now. You can freely choose to use different moves (though in this case, it's more akin to Palutena that every move is different) and equipment load outs. Early on in it's life though was a character named Feral Chaos. Feral Chaos had one attack that was completely overpowered that, on certain stages was near unavoidable. Even then, some characters could not deal with it at all, and all he'd have to do is spam the move over and over and win fairly easily. Even the characters who had the tools to "fight it" struggled. Eventually, and fairly early on, rather than just banning the move, they outright banned the character (and to be fair, the character was good even without that one move). It's a slippery slope really. Do you ban the problem and gimp the character, or do you just get rid of the character outright.

 

[Overswarm]

I wonder what we will do if we find one that is really loltoogood. That would make or break a character.

Personally, I wouldn't do anything until it showed itself to be dominating. It is incredibly likely that we will find a character that is 'really good' because they have some sort of easy kill move or setup or custom move or something that is simply easy to do. The only character in the history of Smash to not be brought down a peg or three after being declared "too good" is Meta Knight. That's some good odds.

Plus, odds are that if one custom move is "uber good", then likely other characters will have moves that are decent. If this is the case then the gap between the two chars will be closer.

Man I hope one isn't uber.

 

[Zigsta]

Coney apparently tweeted that one of MK's custom moves is his Brawl Nado. Not sure how much it would affect this game without testing. Take Bowser, for example: Nado wrecked him largely because his blind spot was beneath him, and his only two downwards-moving moves in the air, dair and Bowser Bomb, had poor priority. You could Klaw, nair, dair, and Bowser Bomb Nado but only if the angle was just right and it was early in the Nado. His nair, dair, and Bowser Bomb have been buffed in Smash 4, though.

tl;dr Nado may be back but it's possible with the buffs some characters got that it wouldn't be as big a deal.

 

[Overswarm]

Coney apparently tweeted that one of MK's custom moves is his Brawl Nado. Not sure how much it would affect this game without testing. Take Bowser, for example: Nado wrecked him largely because his blind spot was beneath him, and his only two downwards-moving moves in the air, dair and Bowser Bomb, had poor priority. You could Klaw, nair, dair, and Bowser Bomb Nado but only if the angle was just right and it was early in the Nado. His nair, dair, and Bowser Bomb have been buffed in Smash 4, though.

tl;dr Nado may be back but it's possible with the buffs some characters got that it wouldn't be as big a deal.

 

[NickRiddle]

Banning MK brb

 

[Overswarm]

Could someone with more knowledge than me make a thread where we just keep track of all of the custom-move related glitches?

So far only the Yoshi one looks like a major problem (special up+b after down+b into ground) if used for stalling, but it'll be important to keep track of all of these. We expect players to be aware of what their character can do, so if we consider yoshi's down+b/up+b glitch stalling then we will need to notify players of this prior to entering tournaments.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Could someone with more knowledge than me make a thread where we just keep track of all of the custom-move related glitches?

So far only the Yoshi one looks like a major problem (special up+b after down+b into ground) if used for stalling, but it'll be important to keep track of all of these. We expect players to be aware of what their character can do, so if we consider yoshi's down+b/up+b glitch stalling then we will need to notify players of this prior to entering tournaments.

I strongly second this.

 

[False]

Wario has neat customizable special moves;

His bite is an inhale like DDD's, that sucks you into the command grab.
His bicycle takes off at extreme speed, and remains an active hitbox EVEN when you jump off of it.

 

[Zigsta]

Wario has neat customizable special moves;

His bite is an inhale like DDD's, that sucks you into the command grab.
His bicycle takes off at extreme speed, and remains an active hitbox EVEN when you jump off of it.

Wow, that sounds REALLY cool. How far is his inhale range compared to D3/Kirby?

 

[Krynxe]

I'm failing to see the downside of a lot of these custom special moves. For that reason alone, I question whether they should be used in a competitive setting or not. But of course, being open minded is always the best, so I'd like to give it a try and see how it feels

 

[KuroganeHammer]

I'm failing to see the downside of a lot of these custom special moves. For that reason alone, I question whether they should be used in a competitive setting or not. But of course, being open minded is always the best, so I'd like to give it a try and see how it feels

if you can't see a downside, then that means that all of them must be equally viable :D

 

[Krynxe]

There is an upside

There is no downside

"Equal"

aerodrome logic never fails to confuse me

 

[Overswarm]

I'm failing to see the downside of a lot of these custom special moves. For that reason alone, I question whether they should be used in a competitive setting or not. But of course, being open minded is always the best, so I'd like to give it a try and see how it feels

Have you used them?

 

[Krynxe]

No, I've just read the way people have explained them and seen footage.

I'm just saying that people never explain what's wrong with them. It sounds like a lot of the custom moves are just upgrades from how people talk about them

 

[Overswarm]

No

and done


Just wait until you use 'em before the doom and gloom.

 

[False]

Wow, that sounds REALLY cool. How far is his inhale range compared to D3/Kirby?

It's very similar, I believe its the same.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I am in full support of custom moves being used competitively. It really adds a new game play depth and allows players to pick and choose according to how they like to play. It is obvious that some custom moves will take precedence over some unfavorable ones. I do think certain custom moves should be banned that might seem to be too advantageous, destructive to competitive play, or other negative factors but I do not seem this becoming a huge problem. At least, the custom moves seem similar to the default moves (either by a very thin margin or a huge margin i.e. Paletuna).

My only beef is in how hard it is to unlock custom moves. It is doable to unlock them in a week or two weeks time but there may be an issue with one player cannot having custom moves and another player having custom moves.

One idea is that custom and non-custom matches could be separated. That might be a bit much though but it is an idea.

 

[Overswarm]

The biggest issue will be with the Wii U version. For the 3DS it's a non-issue to say "have all the custom moves you need on your own 3DS", but for the Wii U they'll need everyone's.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

With more time I have actually found that unlocking an entire custom moveset for a character takes very little time at all.

Starting from scratch I was able to acquire the full custom sets for 2 characters in 2 hours, simply by rouletting the first match in classic mode over and over and purposefully losing the 2nd match. Lucina and Marth.

I'm quite sure this is easily replicated, and I didn't even use the home button tactic, I just timed it by my own gander.

 

[Keitaro]

I heard this info was rumored but now I'm seeing it's confirmed. At my local events I plan to let players connect their 3DS to the Wii U whenever needed for custom movesets and as a controller.

 

[Overswarm]

Good find Keitaro!

Do you know if the data loaded could be stored? If so a TO could unlock everything on a 3DS and upload it to each Wii U individually. When I did custom stage testing in the MW we found it took virtually no time at all (about 2-3 minutes per console) and using two people simultaneously resulted in no tournament slowdown.

*crosses fingers*

 

[Keitaro]

Crossing my fingers too. There's no info on that yet.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

I think there will be a way to transferring information from one Wii U to the next obviously. We know a lot about the 3DS but, even still, there are some things that haven't been shown yet. We hardly know about the Wii U version so there hasn't been much information regarding it.

If a TO could possibly load all of the unlocked custom moves on the 3DS and transfers them to the Wii U, it would be pretty amazing. My thing though is should there be a time limit in picking custom moves? Let's say the TO has custom moves within the Wii U, it would basically mean people would have to quickly pick out the custom moves available. Good players will already know which custom moves they want to use but it may prove to be a problem with less decisive players or at the beginning to Smash 4 competitive scene.

 

[Overswarm]

"It may be a problem" != "is a problem". People said the same thing about wii motes, custom controls, even stage striking in Brawl, none caused a noticeable issue. I have a "you have a 2 minute timer in which you can relax throughout your set" rule that I don't enforce unless I see someone being super slow inbetween games. Something similar (or just expanding that rule) may be a good thing for a TO to have. Not enforced regularly, but arbitrarily when an issue comes up and would show people that they aren't supposed to think on it forever.